A Casual Christmas Carol – Do our past & present decisions impact our future?

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It’s Christmastime in Casual Swingerland!

Join Mickey & Mallory tonight while we discuss our pasts, how they relate to our relationships today, and how our present behaviors might impact our future.  Do it along side us and the three ghosts of “A Christmas Carol” as we’re walked down memory lane (among other things) and figure out some answers to some burning questions we’ve had for years.

This holiday spectacular is our last episode of 2021 and we want to thank all of you, the listeners, our friends, supporters, and anyone who’s purchased from Casual Toys this year.  Thanks to all the content creators who’ve paved the way for us to make our silly show and had fun with us along the way.

Also, Whiskey of the Month!  This month’s whiskey is:  ANGEL’S ENVY!  Hang around and listen to one of the coolest stories from any bourbon, anywhere!

BONUS:  “Twas’ The Night Before Christmas – Casual Swinger Edition” at the end!

Casual Toys


Double Date Nation

Angel’s Envy 

Hearing impaired? This podcast is transcribed for your convenience.

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Mallory Gordon  00:08

You’re listening to the casual swinger podcast as your host. We need to warn you that the material you’re about to hear may be sexual or explicit in nature. This podcast is intended for an adult audience. Now, we don’t expect you to act like adults when it’s the button that


Mickey Gordon  00:22

we’re a married couple living in Florida with over 13 years of experience in the lifestyle and we take almost nothing seriously. Casual swingers variety show meaning we’ll cover everything from music to events, travel, and even the occasional hilarious screw up. Our show was about entertainment. We’re not licensed professionals. And our stories, commentary and guidance should not be confused with the opinions of a licensed professional.


Mallory Gordon  00:46

Now that you know, let’s take those pants off and get comfy.


Swinger Marley  01:11

A cold wind blows down these snowy city streets, where Mickey and Mallory have settled in by the fire for long winter’s night. Her in her favorite crotchless Christmas panties, and Mickey staring from across the room. We’re not watching TV tonight. Right? beanbags. Mallory looks at him with a grin before the fires suddenly, and it’ll blink. It disappears right before their eyes. The cold wind rushes from the fireplace. And on that wind a Spirit writes into the room on his mighty motor buddy, sliding to a halt. before their very eyes. The ghost looks around the room. Locking his eyes on are suddenly shocked. But still, somehow horny couple. nearly 15 years it’s been since he joined the lifestyle. And what have you learned? Mickey starts to answer and the ghost stops him with a wave of the giant dildo in his hand. Tonight. Tonight, you’ll be visited by three ghosts, and reminded of the lessons of your past your present and your future. Mallory, not one for uninvited guests. Interrupts we kind of have plans tonight. Three ghosts, Mickey and Mallory when the clock strikes 10 three ghosts and he fades away


Mallory Gordon  03:31

Welcome back to casual swinger. I’m your host Mallory.


Mickey Gordon  03:36

And Miki whoo hoo ha ha ha ha. It was a little creepier than I was planning on it being for a Christmas episode.


Mallory Gordon  03:44

But I think it was really neat. His voice was spectacular and my humble opinion


Mickey Gordon  03:50

crazy. He was crazy good. But you know that is one of the three ghosts that’s the first ghost I guess he’s the I don’t even remember


Mallory Gordon  03:56

that goes like are Jacob Jacob Barney or Jacob Marley, Marley. Marley.


Mickey Gordon  04:00

So we’re gonna be visited by three ghosts. Who should be a Halloween episode.


Mallory Gordon  04:05

No, right? Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  04:08

no, guys, this is our Christmas episode. And of course, you guys probably checked out our groovy as Christmas music at the beginning. And you know, it’s just kind of a thing we do for you guys. We try to you know, holiday this shit up around here.


Mallory Gordon  04:19

I hope everyone enjoys it. It’s fun to be a little festive. And I don’t know us a little creativity is our show. I think we’re entitled to


Mickey Gordon  04:27

that too. But you know, we are a little bit of a low budget thriller around here. So that was a good friend of ours who maybe in another life would have been an actor. You know,


Mallory Gordon  04:36

I didn’t know that he had aspirations or had trained in college,


Mickey Gordon  04:41

and neither did I. Honestly, I’ve known for like, 20 years totally no idea. Totally makes sense. I just thought he had a cool voice and turns out dude can do crazy accents. He did like four takes of that. And they were all really good. So why should you see that helped us? Yeah, he’s


Mallory Gordon  04:53

just got a great voice. That baritone he’s a great person that already can sing. Sorry, I digress. All right, you


Mickey Gordon  05:00

know what, I’ll ask him to sing for the show. But my hearing Yeah, it’ll Barry White or something. But anyway, it’s our casual Christmas carol episode we’re gonna talk about the three subjects in our favorite ghosts, the past the present in the future. And we’re gonna do it without the help of Ebenezer Scrooge,


Mallory Gordon  05:17

or Bill Murray, which is such a bummer. My favorite screen is your screws. It’s probably one of my top three or four favorite Christmas movies and I love Christmas movies.


Mickey Gordon  05:25

Alright, so that’s my like, ultimate guest is to get Bill Murray on the show.


Mallory Gordon  05:29

Oh my god, how cool would that be?


Mickey Gordon  05:31

I hear he’s like really indifferent about everything. So it probably be really frustrating. But it’s still be fun to have him on, I think.


Mallory Gordon  05:37

All right. So do we need to do anything first before we go into our past, present and future and how that relates to our lifestyle and journey? Yeah, maybe


Mickey Gordon  05:43

a little couple housekeeping items. Right. So first of all, we need to thank all of you guys for joining us on casual Springer this year. I don’t it was like our fourth full year or something of doing casual Springer. We’re going into now I think. I think so. Yeah. So you guys spend your time listening to us. That’s a gift. It’s not something we ever take for granted. Now. Just today, we went over 40,000 followers on Twitter.


Mallory Gordon  06:05

It’s crazy to me and I can’t thank people enough time is the biggest commodity we have. It’s the one thing we’ll never get back in the fact that anyone wants to spend a second of it with us. It’s a big deal. It’s a huge deal. It’s so flattering. And I don’t have enough words to show my appreciation and admiration for it.


Mickey Gordon  06:24

I personally have plenty of words. I’m just not supposed to use them because we tried to keep it to 5050 around here so


Mallory Gordon  06:30

fair. Yeah, yeah, I’ve read their reviews. Fuck you for talking all the time. Apparently. No,


Mickey Gordon  06:35

apparently, I just do all the talking and you never see shit. So could you step it up?


Mallory Gordon  06:39

They should really like follow us around.


Mickey Gordon  06:41

Right? This should just be in the kitchen and listen to all the words I listened to you all day long.


Mallory Gordon  06:45

Bless you. I love you. I love you, too.


Mickey Gordon  06:47

Alright, how about casual toys, though, guys, we need to thank all of you guys for your support of casual toys. We had our biggest year ever. And it’s because of each of you. Now we have some fun stuff coming up for you guys this year. We can’t wait to share it with you in terms of casual toys. But know that we run that store for this community. You guys out there the listeners, the lifestyle owners, the sex positive people, that people that are just thinking about being sex positive or thinking about something outside the box. That’s who casual toys is for. If somebody just wants to go buy something to throw away or something that’s a piece of shit or some of that maybe they just just want to buy crap, right? They’ll go to Amazon, when they come looking for help. And they looking for real advice and body safe stuff. I love being those folks for him.


Mallory Gordon  07:27

100% I think it’s something you know, the inception of it came from a passion because that’s something we were lacking. I was lacking. And yeah, we just want to help people. Yeah. So put it Yeah, it will never retire off that let me be


Mickey Gordon  07:45

Oh, shit. No.


Mallory Gordon  07:46

Right. Never in a million years,


Mickey Gordon  07:48

maybe maybe after the tax write off, we might break even but whatever. I don’t care.


Mallory Gordon  07:53

Now. And it’s an it’s, it’s fun to it feels good to help someone.


Mickey Gordon  07:57

Yeah, it really does. And anyway, I think there’s a lot of folks out there that are, you know, angling toward making money on the lifestyle, I’d say we’re definitely not those people. And I’m okay with that. I’m, it’s fine. I’m not trying to make a million dollars. I’m trying to make what we’ve gotten from this journey. And we’ll get into this as we get into the episode. Some of the best friends I ever imagined having in our lives.


Mallory Gordon  08:17

You know, it’s so hard to look at people in the venom life or even work life and go, you know, it’s got to be so hard to make friends as an as an adult. Because you just have very limited opportunity, especially, you know, post COVID or during COVID. And I’m so blessed like we did charity off her work this year. And people are like, where you have so many friends are so wonderful and generous and all over the world. They send all like elevate like anyone that participated sent notes and like, and this is our admin assistant, it’s telling me this and I want to be like, my life is so blessed and charmed because of this community. Yeah. And it’s not something we can have open dialogue about.


Mickey Gordon  09:00

I think they’ve looked down their nose at us a few times, like where’d all these people come from? And every time you go to Jamaica, you come back with new people. And it’s like,


Mallory Gordon  09:07

yeah, yeah. Or we’ve done the the charity events and they’re like, where did y’all meet? And I’m like, shocker.


Mickey Gordon  09:13

Jamaica. Anyone gets the blue speaking of friends.


Mallory Gordon  09:17

Yes. Oh my gosh, so excited for the June event. I really hope people don’t miss the opportunity to join in and not because it’s you know, going to be, you know, elitist or anything crazy. It’s just an amazing experience. We talked about it after the fact that I think this is gonna this is our favorite lifestyle event.


Mickey Gordon  09:35

It is. And I think a lot of things point to it’s just it’s such a good time. It’s picking up fast guys. Don’t miss your chance to do that and hang out with some of your favorite swinger podcasters Oh, and us. Yeah, we’ll be there us to come. And us. Yeah. Gonna be really good. We’ll make you be our friend. Right? That’s right. I’ll just chase you around and swing my penis at you. I can’t really swing it. It’s just like kind of like a little nub, but I’ll just wiggle it just slaps Hey, also this week this episode, you guys have been asking for it. You’ve been wondering, you’ve been waiting all December for it. Whiskey of the month. Oh, yeah, new whiskey the month today, we’re gonna do it no matter how long this episode runs, you’re gonna get whiskey of the month. And


Mallory Gordon  10:17

I’m so excited for the one because I love the fucking story behind it. So yes, definitely listen to that, we definitely want to take a second to recognize all the lifestyle content creators out there, you know, we don’t have to agree on every aspect actually, we appreciate the discourse and dialogue that comes out of, you know, some of these conversations we have. And we can appreciate the efforts and the creativity and it’s hard to put yourself out there. It really when you’re being being authentic, and using your voice and your words and your perspective, your perspective is probably the thing you worry about the most because, you know, not everyone’s gonna agree with you.


Mickey Gordon  10:53

That’s a fact. And I think some of the things that come into play for a lot of creators, ourselves included, you really kind of you look around just like we do in the lifestyle or when you’re going to talk to a new pretty girl or a good looking guy. And you have those self doubt moments they happen for content creators to go is this thing that we’re going to talk about, does anybody really give a shit and it happens pretty much with every episode you put up


Mallory Gordon  11:16

Sure. And you know, even if that doesn’t happen, and so you’re still putting yourself out there in front of an audience that could you know, plan based or completely disagree or totally fall head over heels in love with you. And then you know, maybe that’s not the inspiration for it all but it is it is a risk anytime you put yourself out there and publican. I appreciate that.


Mickey Gordon  11:38

I do as well. And I think that you’re spot on with this. Kudos to all the content creators though instead of joined us in 2021.


Mallory Gordon  11:47

Welcome to this shit show.


Mickey Gordon  11:53

But this is gonna be a blast, guys. We’re gonna get into this in just a minute. As a matter of fact, I think I hear the bells. So we will be right back in just a minute after Mallory tells you where to find us. With the first of three ghosts,


Mallory Gordon  12:05

we are casual swinger everywhere you can find us a casual swinger.com or message us at podcast at casual swinger.com We are found on social media that’s Twitter, YouTube, Facebook and Instagram. You can also find us on the dating sites which are DD N double Diggnation Cassidy SLS and Assisi


Mickey Gordon  12:26

there you go and if for some reason you happen to like what you do go leave us a review on iTunes and tell that guy who says I talk to you much when it Dickey is that’s my Christmas present from all of you. Alright guys, we’ll be right back in just a second with the ghost of Christmas past swingers you’ve been listening All right, everybody. Welcome back to casual swinger in the first of our spookiest of the spooky ghosts, the ghost of Christmas. Past


Mallory Gordon  13:27

this is the scariest one. I think this is the most? I don’t know.


Mickey Gordon  13:32

Interesting. Interesting, but also vulnerable. Yeah, yeah, a little bit. I mean, I think there’s something weird about the past. We all as people and even monogamous people are so fucking hyper focused on their past. It seems like it’s part of every relationship I’ve ever been in. Like, what’s the first question? Like, serious question you get asked in a new relationship? monogamously Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  13:55

so this will we’re gonna go way back, right, because we’ve been together a long time. But I remember having been with anybody else since we got together. But it’s, I don’t hear this question as often now. But you’re always it would always include in the conversation at some point early on. How many people have you slept with everyone wants to know your fucking number?


Mickey Gordon  14:15

All right. Well, for me, it’s not enough because I was terrible at asking for the business in my past. So that’s my answer. Have you been with not enough? Yeah. Let’s fix


Mallory Gordon  14:26

that go over with the girls.


Mickey Gordon  14:28

Uh, well, I’ve never tried that line. I should, should be like, Hey, I not enough. Let’s come over here and sit on my face. Now, you know, why is that though? I mean, you know, how about this 1am I the best you’ve ever had, who the fuck asked that question. Everybody in some form or


Mallory Gordon  14:44

fashion? Yeah. Or you feel compelled to say it?


Mickey Gordon  14:48

Yeah, I mean, I think that’s what they’re really asking when they asked for your number. They’re trying to figure out how much competition they had. And then what are the chances that they were the best? Oh, you’re a big is your Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  14:59

no, you’re kidding. hoping to. It’s given to the big reveal, I think yeah, yeah, no, I think yeah,


Mickey Gordon  15:05

guys, you guys want to know they’re like,


Mallory Gordon  15:09

yeah, they want to know more importantly, if they’re still in your orbit, so do you still talk to them? Do you still socialize with them?


Mickey Gordon  15:15

I think women ask that question just as much as guys do monogamous relations, okay. They want to make sure that she’s not still sniffing around and more importantly, that the partner is not pining for that person still.


Mallory Gordon  15:29

So okay, so, so that’s what you think. Why? Because I feel like there’s something broken in that methodology and that psychology like why do we feel fucking compelled to ask and or answer?


Mickey Gordon  15:42

What answer is probably the one that I want to know the most about? Like, why did we feel compelled to answer that question, why don’t be like doesn’t matter? Are you enjoying what I’m doing to you? Because I learned how to do it somewhere. And it wasn’t by sucking a banana,


Mallory Gordon  15:54

I will, I will tell you, you’re the first and only human being actually a drawback, probably not the only human being because I’ve had other conversations in the lifestyle. But the only man I’ve ever dated, that if I presented a question that kind of fit into that dialogue, you challenged me was like, why? What is the purpose of this? I don’t know how Yeah, exactly. Well, I


Mickey Gordon  16:18

was want to, I want to know the motivation because I have a tendency historically in my lifetime to answer questions kind of flippantly and just give you the answer, because I’m incredibly blunt. And I’ve found that sometimes that answer causes a lot of pain. But so does telling somebody what they want to hear. Good. Yeah. So I want to know what the motivation was. So I can prepare you for the answer, because you might not be prepared yourself.


Mallory Gordon  16:44

Bless you, one of the first things you prepared me for is if you ask the question, I hope you’re prepared to know the answer. Because I’ll never lie to you.


Mickey Gordon  16:51

Yeah, you regretted that? Because you tested me a couple times.


Mallory Gordon  16:56

Whatever we learned, we learned, but I feel like we probably both agree on this, I’m gonna go out on the limb that, you know, conversations about the past can lead to feelings of inadequacy about the present, right? So maybe they’re looking for something to be afraid of their class, maybe, you know, I keep saying humans are relationship, relational people, they have to know where they stand in regards to something else in relation to something else. Sure.


Mickey Gordon  17:21

If you don’t know what an inch is a foot means nothing to you. Exactly. But I


Mallory Gordon  17:25

think this is very toxic behavior and toxic thought process.


Mickey Gordon  17:28

Well, I think it’s establishing a, a benchmark for failure, and then guaranteeing that you get


Mallory Gordon  17:35

that, yeah, you have zero chance of success in that conversation. Right? Right. Because


Mickey Gordon  17:39

it’s either you have too many partners, we’re not enough partners,


Mallory Gordon  17:41

okay. Or, you know, maybe it’ll, you know, identify, you know, the opportunity, or statistically, if they’ll cheat, or maybe you know, how apt they are to stay or leave.


Mickey Gordon  17:52

Right. So if you’re like, Well, my ex was amazing. And she did everything for me, and we had a great sex life. But I cheated on her anyway, what you’re gonna get from that is,


Mallory Gordon  18:00

I’ll never be good enough,


Mickey Gordon  18:01

you’ll never be good enough. And I’m gonna leave. So these these types of questions. I mean, I think the last one that we just said, Maybe I’m not good enough. That’s the question. We’re really asking, what is the measurement that I’m being judged by? And am I good enough? And this is this relates to lifestyle guys trust us in this one? Really? What? Yeah, we’ll get there. We have nervous here. Yeah. And it relates to the lifestyle because the things we fear in our relationships are usually rooted in our past. So we ask questions that are rooted in our past and we point at our past and we look at our past, and we have this measuring stick with no hope of success. There’s no hope. There’s no hope. Nope. No matter what you do. If you’re looking for something that scares you, you will find it in your past. I guarantee it.


Mallory Gordon  18:46

Sure. Especially if you go looking for it if you haven’t, because all of those questions to me pose the intent of failure, the intent of maybe even self sabotage not even being aware of it,


Mickey Gordon  19:00

and it feels innocent enough maybe I’m just looking to see where the danger is gonna come from. I just want to know where I’m gonna get hit.


Mallory Gordon  19:06

Well, welcome to Life please get a helmet and join us join us a wild ride but it’s worth it.


Mickey Gordon  19:12

Yeah, it does. I have a question and this is what I’ve always had for guys and I don’t know why we all do it. Okay, I think I’ve even been guilty of it in my youth, especially before I ever had sex. I told everybody I was the best lay in Prince William County but why is it when guys are asked about their their sexual past men always seem to round up or even better they fabricate some massive number just because I mean, even the fuck wants to be Wilt Chamberlain.


Mallory Gordon  19:39

Okay. I’m stopping right there. Why? I think it’s bullshit that men get to round up and they’re celebrated for it or not even questioned about it and who the fuck is


Mickey Gordon  19:51

my God, I’m not that much older than you got a


Mallory Gordon  19:54

porn star. No.


Mickey Gordon  19:56

Jesus Christ. All right, so, Chamberlain for the record. No.


Mallory Gordon  20:01

Seriously, though I don’t.


Mickey Gordon  20:03

You’re such a girl. What does that mean? You’re so sexy and beautiful and you make my life better in every way.


Mallory Gordon  20:08

Pop by mountain lessons


Mickey Gordon  20:12

eat and boys. That’s how it’s done right there. You dig yourself? Oh, you made for yourself. So


Mallory Gordon  20:16

who’s this guy you’re referencing, right? Why do we care? Wilt Chamberlain


Mickey Gordon  20:19

just for reference? He claims to have slept with over 20,000 women in his life. And he get the fuck out. Just like he did as well documented that he was this legendary Cocksman in the NBA. And if you break that math down, by the way, that’s 1.4 women per day over the course of his lifetime. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  20:45

how old is he?


Mickey Gordon  20:46

I know. He’s like, 200,000 years old. I know. He’s spoken 20,000 women. How was he alive in Magic Johnson his age? I don’t know. How do you


Mallory Gordon  20:53

sleep with 1/4? Of what like four tenths of two fifths of a woman? That was the


Mickey Gordon  20:57

important question. Right? And the other question is, who the hell are we impressing? Who is Chamberlain impressing right? Are we impressing other men? Are we trying to tell women that by virtue of their obsession with sex or utter disregard for it, that we’re good at it by proxy? I wonder


Mallory Gordon  21:10

I need to think about this. Now this is actually inspired some introspection, I wonder if that’s ever made me attractive? Or if I know anyone that they’ve been attracted to the fact that a male they know is prolific there. And this applies to life.


Mickey Gordon  21:23

Thank you. Yes. When we kind of are waving our flag of how many couples were with or how many couples were not with, which is something I think we’ve been guilty of, because we’re low mileage. We always tell people, we’re low mileage. We don’t play a lot. That’s true. And why do we do and is it mental? Is it the opposite? Are we trying to say that we’re better because we don’t? Or we’re worse? Because we didn’t? What are we saying?


Mallory Gordon  21:48

I don’t know. That’s actually an excellent point.


Mickey Gordon  21:51

But it’s probably a bad fucking idea. And we’ve done it in our past. I don’t think we should do it anymore. Okay. Now you gotta yell at me. The next time I do is I’ll probably do it like tomorrow. Yeah, I got you and your mom gets here.


Mallory Gordon  22:00

Yeah, yeah, please don’t go my mom


Mickey Gordon  22:03

can’t wait. can’t handle it. So good. All right, maybe not. My mother in law is coming to town, guys, you should fear for my life.


Mallory Gordon  22:13

Just saying you’ll be fine.


Mickey Gordon  22:15

Well, anyway. So I just want to know, are we doing it because we want to be admired, loved, respected? And what if we’re sending the wrong message? I mean, what if the message I’m sending you as a man, and this can be a lifestyle message, or this could be a message to the person that I think I might love? You’re not going to be good enough. I won’t be satisfied for long. You shouldn’t bother trying. If she heard any of those first three things, imagine how she’s going to receive a conversation about opening your relationship.


Mallory Gordon  22:46

Actually, I think after the last one we go, we’ll take the check, please. And that’s it. Like there’s there’s no hope of proceeding at that point, unless you’re to self flagellation?


Mickey Gordon  22:58

Well, my question is, what if it’s not about you? Right, what if it’s, what if it’s not about me? What if it’s just these feelings of inadequacy and fear that we’re insulating ourselves against, and we do it over and over and over again, because the behavior has beget the outcome?


Mallory Gordon  23:14

Yeah, I can see that. And it’s almost like a defense mechanism. Like I’m scared to succeed. I’m scared to be liked. I’m scared to be welcomed or appreciated. So let’s just cut to the chase, I don’t think you like me. So I’m just gonna make sure you know, all of the things you don’t want to know. And we can just go from there. See, right, you walk in going? No, zero opportunity for success. Alright, so we


Mickey Gordon  23:38

just ruined so many people’s dating lives because a lot of our listeners, like the three, a lot of them are not in the lifestyle. So you’re gonna go out there you’re like, so I gotta tell you all the bad things about me I fart in my sleep, I snore. I mean to my mom. And I’ve been with like all the women so let’s hook up or none of them are none of them. I don’t know. Okay, don’t do that guys. Just be cognizant of the message you’re sending with the words that you use.


Mallory Gordon  24:01

So let’s let’s bring this back because we can go down a rabbit hole here really quickly, but how does it actually pertain to the lifestyle? You know, I I found you because I was looking right. That’s that’s the message we’re talking about. And this is I think that a lot of this applies to the monogamous relationships as well as the Swinging relationships, right? I found you because I was looking. This says I’m interested. I’m wanting your desired I’m looking for this and I found you.


Mickey Gordon  24:30

That’s big by the wind. I found you because there’s something I didn’t have in my life. There’s something I missed or something I needed. And you were the lies, you


Mallory Gordon  24:39

know. Yeah. Yeah. For us in our relationships. Absolutely.


Mickey Gordon  24:43

Oh, you so much. Were in our Yeah, I mean, every bad day I have I know you’re at the end of it. So


Mallory Gordon  24:48

for the most part and sometimes it’s for the hug and sometimes with my fitting your ass you know what, that’s actually fair ditto like it does happen. But you know what we have the kind of relationship sometimes we end it with a hug and sometimes we have to put in our foot and the others ask and go, Hey, you’re the got it. There’s no what was me here, I suck it up, buttercup. We’re gonna call accountability here. And neither of us are gonna like that conversation.


Mickey Gordon  25:17

So I found you. Because I was looking then when


Mallory Gordon  25:22

I stopped when I found you. Ooh,


Mickey Gordon  25:25

that was me. Yeah. Because you were worried when I told you about the my lifestyle experience before you


Mallory Gordon  25:30

got I want I just wanted to know where you’re coming from, like, was that? Like, you know, an orientation like, or were you born this way? Do you need more? Will you always need this in your life? I just had to know where I stand. Because again, I need to know where I am.


Mickey Gordon  25:45

I felt like you were asking me, will you ever be satisfied? And I was like, Yeah, from the second I laid eyes on you. But I really you believe me? I mean, 16 years later, I think you do?


Mallory Gordon  25:55

Well, of course. I think that’s where we stand. I have to take you at face value, but at the same time, tenure, your actions prove everything else that’s what supports your words. But you know, you’re always innocent till proven guilty, I guess. Okay, if if I had to give it a an analogy,


Mickey Gordon  26:14

but in the lifestyle what comes next like what’s like what I mean? I stopped when I found you does that mean?


Mallory Gordon  26:20

But you didn’t stop loving experiencing other people didn’t stop liking sex. And you definitely did not stop liking sex, thankfully. Thank you for that actually. or wanting sex with other humans. Yeah, so what’s wrong with that? Only for us nothing.


Mickey Gordon  26:37

Yet, so maybe.


Mallory Gordon  26:39

So what’s so what’s the point of all that?


Mickey Gordon  26:43

Well, I think to a great extent, we ask questions that we don’t want the answers to.


Mallory Gordon  26:51

Inherently or we ask the questions that we know that the be answered. There’s there’s no right one.


Mickey Gordon  26:58

Yes. Well, I think women do it too. So what about where percent women always seem to round down for starters, you like you? I mean, when I met you, you might as well have been the Virgin Mary. You were like I am a Puritan. I spend all day Sunday at church.


Mallory Gordon  27:13

That’s a gross miss.


Mickey Gordon  27:16

slight exaggeration. I


Mallory Gordon  27:17

can’t even like talk ever socially. This blue note, by the way that I’m drinking tonight. Yeah. Which should probably be on the west give The Mentalist at some point in 2020 to 125 proof and I’m not allowed to have that anymore.


Mickey Gordon  27:30

i You did punish that glass quickly.


Mallory Gordon  27:33

I am I’m having trouble enunciating. Well, it’s


Mickey Gordon  27:37

123 proof. It’s a tornado barrel too, by the way. Ah,


Mallory Gordon  27:42

it’s delicious. But dangerous. Pretty impressive.


Mickey Gordon  27:45

We’ll get to the whiskey though. But why do you guys round down what the fuck is?


Mallory Gordon  27:49

Okay, let’s just start with the fact that it’s a fucking double standard. What? It’s shameful. I’m not pom poms out in this community. I’m celebrated for being you know, slutty and delightfully. whorish as you like to call it. But like in the field, I’m sorry. Society is not accepting of that. Like they’re not comfortable with women owning their sexuality and being in that same role. And going, Yeah, I fucked five guys in one week. Like that’s not okay. Society is not cool with that, guys. It’s almost expected that you guys are going to sow your oats and be, you know, shamelessly promiscuous.


Mickey Gordon  28:33

Oh, wait a minute, you just said an important word. Shameless shame.


Mallory Gordon  28:38

That you guys are celebrated for it. And women are typically shamed for it because we’re supposed to be pure and demure. And Naver somehow


Mickey Gordon  28:47

our CoCs are made more beautiful by all the women we sleep. Yeah, and your vagina is destroyed.


Mallory Gordon  28:52

I am so glad I wasn’t born to be a concubine. Like I can’t even tell you how excited about that. I am right now. You


Mickey Gordon  29:00

guys. First of all, you make a great compliment. But the


Mallory Gordon  29:04

to one person? No. Okay, maybe


Mickey Gordon  29:06

not. But I kind of struggle with this whole like mentality. And it’s something you did that I just was completely flummoxed. I


Mallory Gordon  29:14

feel like we’re going down this road and you’re gonna fucking call me out and I’m, I’m gonna take it on the chin. I’m gonna I’m I’m down with it like, okay, and, and other places.


Mickey Gordon  29:24

But you did this. I didn’t do it intentionally had the conversation about our past. And I was really blunt about mine. And you gave me a lot of shit about mine and asked me a lot of questions that I maybe didn’t identify as what you were really telling me which is, I was scaring you. And I asked you some questions. And you answered me dishonestly and a lot of cases because of all the things that didn’t convey,


Mallory Gordon  29:51

so you have to understand that there was a negotiation factor that happened to my subconscious. And I think this was a condition of the experiences and conversations I had in just what society expected of a young 20 something year old woman, you know, the whole like this. This didn’t count because insert answer here and I’m sure we’ll run down that list. But there were certain things that didn’t answer like, I hadn’t told you that I’ve been with women. So when you asked me for my number and reciprocation, like,


Mickey Gordon  30:21

been out a few months together, you lost your nose ring and a girl’s pussy in the back of the reverend’s infinite happen


Mallory Gordon  30:26

after that initial conversation. And have you Reverend still


Mickey Gordon  30:29

talks about that to this day? Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  30:33

It was a good time.


Mickey Gordon  30:34

It was but I just think that girls don’t count. It wasn’t a one night stand because we knew each other for a couple of months beforehand. I mean, yeah, I don’t know. i My point is, at what point do we leave shame behind? And is it okay to leave shame behind in the lifestyle to say, I love sex. I’m unapologetic about it. I’m unabashed about it. I’m safe about it. I’m going to be honest with you. And if that’s not good enough for you, you’re not good enough for me. Should that be part of our present? Because our past is marred with these inconsistencies? And this lack of truth? How do we do better?


Mallory Gordon  31:13

Well, I think for for the conversation we just had, it’s a lot easier to feel comfortable having open conversations and not anticipating that failure or judgment that comes along with the honest answer. But in all fairness, it’s not something we’ve really asked. Okay, or have been asked in the lifestyle. Okay, so what’s different?


Mickey Gordon  31:39

That’s good question. I mean, I think it’s something that we all work through in a different way. I do have an important question for you, though. She one that we’ve kind of talked about before, but


Mallory Gordon  31:48

you know, if you can, I can’t You can’t put him about right now. Oh,


Mickey Gordon  31:52

have you had no with anybody else?


Mallory Gordon  31:53

I’ve tried. Yeah, totally.


Mickey Gordon  31:57

You totally tried. I’ve totally tried. You answer, though. differently. The first like three times.


Mallory Gordon  32:01

Is that true? I told you that there’s only one other person that got Owain. I don’t even think he got it all the way in because it hurt and like we did not do approach that right. Yeah. Because I didn’t know anything about it. And obviously he didn’t he wasn’t a good Sherpa. Oh, he was just going for gold. Literally drive, just smashing it. And I was like, that does not feel good. I wonder why. So and it happened so early on that I was like, Yeah, I don’t think I trust anyone to try to do that again. It was just not


Mickey Gordon  32:32

fun. Alright, so pro tip for anal. The element of surprise is not good.


Mallory Gordon  32:36

Yeah. No, no, that’s called rape. Okay.


Mickey Gordon  32:40

I’ve been calling it the wrong thing. Right. Hedo. Also Eagles rape? Surprisingly, okay. Well, I think fear is a big part of this, but I think respects a big part of it today.


Mallory Gordon  32:52

100%. Because it’s hot. And I hate flying my feminism flag and having people misinterpret what I’m trying to say. But I’ll just go ahead and put it out there. It is hard to earn, maintain and inspire respect as a girl. I think that in a lot of ways men have it easier. You walk into the room and if you’re confident and commanding people don’t necessarily question you. But if you do that, as a woman, people question your motivations or your personality. Maybe she’s bitch. Right over overconfidence, right? There’s a there’s a in that that window is very narrow, much more narrow for women than it is men. And I think that’s an in any social environment or even professional environment. Or especially professional actually, it’s something


Mickey Gordon  33:43

I’ve noticed over the last forever in the lifestyle it seems as Swingers, we don’t really talk about our pasts. At least not in the same context as we do and


Mallory Gordon  33:55

we don’t. Okay, so let’s begin there. Maybe it’s


Mickey Gordon  33:59

because we’re expecting to be accepted. So it’s not an issue. We’re not worried about not being accepted. Now. It’s Carolyn, that no one’s pure. We’re all fours here.


Mallory Gordon  34:08

That’s not being questioned. Right? Yeah. Our purity and yeah,


Mickey Gordon  34:12

right. I’m a horror, you’re a horror. We’re all horrors here.


Mallory Gordon  34:16

I mean, I do love a girl. And so she’s doing


Mickey Gordon  34:19

so well. I mean, why is that? Is it a good idea that we don’t discuss past? I mean, is it a good idea? I mean, let’s Let’s actually put a different spin on this and say that maybe you had a bad experience or experience where somebody didn’t listen to you or didn’t interact with you or didn’t respond to you in a way that made you feel heard and safe. Would you interact in your next lifestyle interaction differently, to maybe encourage that person to do those things?


Mallory Gordon  34:47

Right. Okay. Yeah, I’m


Mickey Gordon  34:48

just wondering, like, what sort of awareness talking about your past help, where does it hurt in the lifestyle?


Mallory Gordon  34:55

I think most of the behaviors we discussed here I think they’re They’re not really factored or negotiated into the conversation because we’ve all for the most part decided to respect each other. Yeah, we lashing out at the door. Yeah, we we’ve left the door, we’re all on the same club, air quotes, and community. So that’s really not part of the factor. So we should that outer layer of fear and just go okay, so we all have about the foundation and baseline. And maybe it’s raised above what we experienced in our monogamous, monogamous relationships earlier on in life. And we’re just a lot more comfortable. It’s the same metaphor I give when people ask about going to hito it’s so much different when you’re able to shut yourself and be naked in front of their other humans, there’s no hiding you are, who you are, and your most pure form naked as fuck naked as a jaybird. We are who we are. And it’s, it creates a different culture. And I call and I think that culture just continues to nurture our truest form of ourselves.


Mickey Gordon  36:03

You know, I think in the lifestyle when it comes to our past, I think the biggest difference for me is I don’t feel any discomfort, allowing my past to influence the way I approach the future in a positive way. So if I feel like I have to talk about something, I feel more comfortable talking about it with my lifestyle friends than anybody else, and saying, I had a bad situation here. And I don’t want it to happen again. Are we cool? And I think it’s dealt with and handled so much better by lifestyler than it is in the early days of monogamous relationships, because maybe that lack of shame, or maybe that comfort level. Maybe that camaraderie, strengthen numbers. I think there’s a lot of reasons but I think there’s no reason not to hide from nor embrace your past. In the lifestyle. Yeah, no,


Mallory Gordon  36:54

I agree. wholeheartedly.


Mickey Gordon  36:56

Yeah, I think the only thing your past does just make you a better lay.


Mallory Gordon  37:02

Okay, fair.


Mickey Gordon  37:03

Yeah. Okay. But I don’t know. Maybe maybe the ghost has other other ideas because I hear the bells. Do you hear the bells, too? Oh, no.


Mallory Gordon  37:13

They’re creepy.


Mickey Gordon  37:14

Are we moving to the present?


Mallory Gordon  37:15

Let’s move to the present. Oh, and talk about how all of that information affects us today. Off we go. Those motherfucking ghosts,


Mickey Gordon  37:41

I know the dragon is all over the timeline. What is this the Avengers?


Mallory Gordon  37:49

Yeah. Vinson had in mind, right? Was it? Was it Charles Dickens? Not Dickinson Dickinson was Emily poet. Dickens. Charles Dickens. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  37:58

Yeah. Charles Dickens. Yeah, right.


Mallory Gordon  38:01

True. Wasn’t my strong suit but at least a course corrected myself You didn’t identified that I got that wrong. Didn’t leave it up to me in the listener right. If monogamous, here’s this. Oh, yeah. Please give me credit that i i That thumbed with my lips that so anyway,


Mickey Gordon  38:15

okay. Would have been eviscerated you for that? She’s a Shakespearean scholar. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  38:19

that’s true. That’s true. But I’m sure they’re very well apprised of all of this anyway, present. So I like to think of the present as our consciousness and like our self awareness, right. It’s, it’s almost entirely influenced by the events in our past, right? We we make decisions subconsciously unconsciously on the fly. And we do that, from pulling data, empirical data that we’ve experienced, it’s in our lives in the past. And we don’t even know that we’re doing it.


Mickey Gordon  38:51

Yeah, but I, in some case, a double edged sword. Right. So awareness, consciousness, presence, being in the present, it’s like a rat in the maze, what it is, and but I think there’s a tragedy associated with it. The tragedy of presence, is that more often than not the best days of our lives are viewed in retrospect, we always look at the best days of our lives as days behind us, we almost never recognize what is happening to us in this moment, is one of the best days of our lives. And if you wrecked you, yeah, it was gonna be one of the best days of your life. Would you have done it differently?


Mallory Gordon  39:24

I think that ruins the experience. Really, really Oh,


Mickey Gordon  39:28

God, I wish I had said yes to that little blonde at the bar.


Mallory Gordon  39:32

But, but whatever still been the best day if you had known beforehand, right? Because we’ve we’ve had this debate in this conversation before that happy or happiness is something we think about, in hindsight, an emotion or something you experience in the moment, right?


Mickey Gordon  39:50

Yeah, that’s true. I mean, happiness is characteristically fleeting, it’s the bomb, hit the ball, hit the orgasm, the the cigarette, the the whatever it is that drives you


Mallory Gordon  40:00

I Asperger Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  40:02

Right. It depends on what your what’s your serotonin generator is right. But yeah, and maybe that’s part of presence. But I would love to say that if we could identify those moments in the present better. Mm hmm. We would enjoy our life so much more because we would forget to be pissed off. But we read in the news or what somebody said on social media or any of the things that take us out of the moment.


Mallory Gordon  40:24

I agree with you. But I actually think, knowing and identifying the moments that we make our decisions based on fear or negative experiences we had in past maybe that hinder us or Buffer ourselves to protect ourselves against that. Yeah, we stopped taking the rest or stop feeling. You know,


Mickey Gordon  40:45

it’s astonishing what a motivator fear it is.


Mallory Gordon  40:48

It is what what worked, and what actually hurt. I think we are custom built to pull that from our memory. We remember negativity and pain and hurt and all those emotions weigh more viscerally than we do happiness. I think that’s just how we’re made. And that teaches us not to touch the stove when it’s honor, you know, to run through fire or,


Mickey Gordon  41:12

you know, right, because we need to be told not to run through fire for some reason.


Mallory Gordon  41:15

People jump out of planes. I mean, they have perfectly good seats and laid underwater like me. Are you underwater yet? I mean, yeah, there’s crazy people like you that challenge the the physics of it all.


Mickey Gordon  41:26

I am utterly stupid when it comes to stuff like that. But that’s what we’re talking. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  41:30

yeah, we’re good. No, we’re definitely the back of the Christmas Carol. We’re talking about our present and what got us here and form the approaches we have. Right. Yeah. And how we interact with the couples that we want to hold dearest to us.


Mickey Gordon  41:44

Yeah. So how much do we communicate about our present to other couples? I mean, do we even ask, Do we are Hey, are you sleeping with other people? Do we ask that question?


Mallory Gordon  41:57

I you know, I think only in specific circumstances. And I’m just gonna go out on a limb here. say hypothetically speaking. You’ve gotten really close with a couple and fluid bondings on the table. I think in those conversations, I could see us having


Mickey Gordon  42:13

that that is a fair, fair, fair time to have that conversation in on a date


Mallory Gordon  42:17

with another couple. No fucking chance. I just


Mickey Gordon  42:21

asked you that. Like, have you been fucking anyone?


Mallory Gordon  42:24

I think I would be caught off guard because I think we’re all here for the same reason. We’re gonna go ahead and assume that we’re all sleeping with other human beings. Probably the safest bet or we want fair expectation. We want to at a minimum


Mickey Gordon  42:35

Hello. Right. That’s why we’re here. Yeah, we’re casual not celebrate. Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  42:43

Sorry, I didn’t bring my one bowl with me to the day. If anyone could message me and tell me what a windfall is, I’ll show you my boobs.


Mickey Gordon  42:52

Oh, there it is. This is the requisite part of the episode where Mallory offers to show you her titties. And I just


Mallory Gordon  42:58

learned what a Weber was sign on anyway. Okay, well, you got to be the first


Mickey Gordon  43:01

to message us. What a wimple is to see Mallory steadies. Anyway, anyway, do you think that people think it? Even if they’re not saying it? Maybe, like sitting across the table going? Oh, yeah, she’s taking some dicks to the throat.


Mallory Gordon  43:16

Maybe. I mean, humans have very strange diatribes in their brain.


Mickey Gordon  43:23

Yeah. And what’s the what’s the payoff there to sit there and think about what someone else has been doing again? Where does that come from? I think it’s still motivated by fear. Am I not going to be good enough? Am I gonna be big enough? Am I to what it for guys? What happens where fear comes into play in the present? is am I going to be able to perform in the future and it fucks with our present? Okay. If you worry about it,


Mallory Gordon  43:45

do you think that being present the national like geographic reference like the lion in the wild that it’s like, analyzing its approach to its target or it’s it’s the zebra whatever you want to call it? I don’t I don’t know what the fuck they hunt.


Mickey Gordon  44:00

See, all I’m thinking about is that one meme where the Zebra is watching the lions fuck. And it’s like watching porn is more important than saving your own life.


Mallory Gordon  44:10

We I think we can’t help but kind of size each other and the situation up and go, What is the likelihood of my success here? Like how, what are what is their expectation of me?


Mickey Gordon  44:21

Yeah, actually, I’m a little different. I actually worry. A great deal about being shot down. So I want someone who no one likes rejection. Yeah, but one of the things that I had found myself the


Mallory Gordon  44:35

difference? Yeah, I’d rather you not like me and tell me then just like be like, Man, well, that


Mickey Gordon  44:40

is exactly what I do wrong. You just pointed it out. So sorry. Well, no, it’s it’s funny because I was talking to Jess cornfed. And we were I was saying how this is something I do. And she actually remembered that’s exactly what I did. She actually didn’t think I liked her. Because I and I do this with everybody that I’m from Fried won’t like me back I’d made I basically treat them with just enough indifference to where I don’t make because I’d rather make them feel like a friend than like somebody that you know, I’m chasing after. But so I don’t hurt myself when I caught myself doing it repeatedly,


Mallory Gordon  45:18

but then so you project that it’s for their own comfort where it’s really trying to insulate yourself. Yes. And protect yourself for rejection 100% driven


Mickey Gordon  45:29

by fear, and I do it to this day, and I’m doing it. Like presently in a conversation we’re having with a couple so it’s, I’m watching myself do it and going, you’re an idiot. emanate the present I’m seeing it and doing it anyway. I don’t know how to break it.


Mallory Gordon  45:44

I think being conscious of it is the first step for you.


Mickey Gordon  45:48

Yeah, it’s, again, when you sit down and write these episodes, sometimes you think about you guys think that we’re like, Alright, we’re gonna just like share all this knowledge with you guys and how great we are. No, we fucked this shit up to at least I do Mallory’s perfect.


Mallory Gordon  46:00

I am not definitely not perfect. tastes perfect. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  46:05

But you think it’s assumed that we all just because we’re swingers that we’re all like, just kind of


Mallory Gordon  46:09

think I think that’s kind of a given? It’s kind of a softball question because we’re all in here for the same objective. And I know even with the new folks, like, there’s a mutual understanding that the objective is here is to meet someone. And at some point eventually, or in very short form, have sex with each other, depending on your style and your desires,


Mickey Gordon  46:29

or create a long term friendship that leads to some really good sex. Right? It’s more of our style.


Mallory Gordon  46:33

Sure, but I’m just speaking in broad strokes over here.


Mickey Gordon  46:37

You’re right all the bases Bob Ross. All right. happy little trees, happy


Mallory Gordon  46:40

little trees. I need by the way, put that documentary my watch list. I’m scared to watch it because I feel like he gets fucked over. Okay, anyway. So what kind of hard conversations do we actually have?


Mickey Gordon  46:52

I think the hard conversations are actually way more important than the frivolous ones. Like how many people have you been with? That’s stupid. Most Swingers, by the way, like, I could not tell you how many people I have been with. It’s


Mallory Gordon  47:02

I was just thinking I don’t have enough fingers in my fucking long term memory. Isn’t that good anymore?


Mickey Gordon  47:10

Honey, I can tell you we’ve been together a long time I could buy you an abacus and not be able to get there. Okay, first,


Mallory Gordon  47:15

I know what abacus is. And now I’m like all like giddy because the sound it makes especially when it’s the old wooden balls like the ones you play with, like in the doctor’s office when you’re a kid. But like on a larger scale. I love them when they’re heavy wooden balls because they just make a very gratifying sound. I just wanted to say I learned I learned how to do long division. And on an application. Yeah. On an abacus. And you call me old? Yeah. It was we were poor. That’s what we had. She didn’t fucking


Mickey Gordon  47:41

Amish born of a calculator. No.


Mallory Gordon  47:46

It was a poor school. Clearly, seriously, the abacus had been there since the school was built. I didn’t


Mickey Gordon  47:52

know you were raised in Haiti. Yeah. Anyway. Anyway,


Mallory Gordon  47:55

the fuck off. Let’s get back to this. So let’s talk about what about testing? A testing is I think that’s really fucking hard. Because there’s like you bring that up? Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  48:06

No time like the present. Yeah. Hey, speaking of the present, that’s why we put in this fucking section, right? So like, we’re just gonna assume


Mallory Gordon  48:13

everyone sexually after you. So I’m, I’m comfortable throwing a grenade into the conversation, which isn’t the most eloquent way to approach this. But if I feel like this is going somewhere, and I know they’re, they’re sexually active with other couples.


Mickey Gordon  48:28

Do I need a way to do this? So anybody had chlamydia?


Mallory Gordon  48:30

Yeah. Ah, okay. I’m awkward. I’ll, I’ll draw that back. I’m awkward with segways. Like, I think it and it’s important that you need to know before we remove ourselves from the conversation, I’m not going to wait for an a quote unquote, appropriate moment to say it, I’m just going to blurt it out and ask, okay, like Tourette’s almost. Pussy. Yeah. And this is where you come in to kind of soften the edges of that really? Need me? I do need you, actually.


Mickey Gordon  49:00

So where does everybody sit on syphilis? Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  49:03

I just think it’s an important but a very challenging conversation to have, especially if you haven’t had it before. And you know, it’s going down that path. And this could be a deal breaker for the opportunity to have sex with this person. In some cases?


Mickey Gordon  49:17

Well, I think it does, potentially push things out a little bit. I don’t think it’s a deal breaker for any of us, at least those of us that have been doing this a while that are adults about it. If a couple that we want


Mallory Gordon  49:29

to hang up, they’ve never been tested, they’re sexually active and say we’re, we’re not going to do it. We haven’t done that.


Mickey Gordon  49:36

If they if we they were like, Hey, we haven’t been but we’ll totally do that and share it with you. Great. Let’s do that before we make that next step. I think that that’s perfectly reasonable to ask if especially when it comes to the testing thing to share that kind of information. Before we establish that layer of trust. I would be personally turned off if I asked about it, and somebody got offended. I would say, well, this isn’t worth getting offended about because I’m about to share my most important person in the universe with you. And I just want to know that if something happens, because condoms do break up broken to in the lifestyle in the last year. So I want to know that, first of all, you’re going to be responsible about it, you’re going to, you’re going to get checked, you’ve been checked, you’re going to be honest with us. And that’s not going to be uncomfortable for me to ask.


Mallory Gordon  50:29

That’s, that’s the hook there the expectation of honesty. And that’s a hard one to gauge because especially if you’re really into the couple, for me testing the first like, major gate if I asked that question, and this could go two ways, I feel that you lied to me, which that’s a whole nother bag of tricks. Or it’s not important enough for you to engage in that activity, or in that conversation. And if I was really into you, I’m setting myself up, potentially for disappointment, because now for me, it’s off the table. So it’s, um, there’s always a little drum roll in the back of my head, like, Ooh, what’s gonna happen? What’s gonna happen? What’s gonna happen and go?


Mickey Gordon  51:13

Well, you touched on something really important there, because you talked about expectations and expectations are this thing that honestly hurt you more than anyone else? Because your expectations are developed over time based on your own behavior. I would do it so I expect they would but you never said it. So if you don’t communicate expectations, all you’re doing is setting landmines for someone else to blow themselves up.


Mallory Gordon  51:36

Wait, we can’t read each other’s minds. Yeah, our


Mickey Gordon  51:41

if men could read minds, they would find the clitoris on the first try. Fair, right. It’s just the way it is.


Mallory Gordon  51:50

You don’t need to hear my grocery list while I’m giving you a blowjob.


Mickey Gordon  51:53

No, but I don’t really sure what you’re thinking, Oh, you’re cool with me. You could be reciting the Constitution in your head for all I care, Gettysburg Address, whatever for skin and seven years ago. You know, I do think, though, that these things can bite you, right? I mean, you have to remember your own throne room. And we’ve talked, we talked about throne room in our boundaries episode last year. I mean, if you don’t respect your own boundaries, if you sacrifice those boundaries that meet expectations that someone else has set out for you, whether they’re implied or spoken, you can find yourself in a really bad situation when you get back to your own throne room across from your own queen.


Mallory Gordon  52:36

And you know, it’s a lot easier to do, then you could imagine just having this conversation between you and I, especially if you’re a people pleaser. It’s easy to blur those lines or take that leap in order to placate or give this person that you want to have a great experience a great experience overall. But you may not even acknowledge that that’s a sacrifice or that could be an impediment.


Mickey Gordon  53:01

Well, fun fact. In our core, we’re all people pleasers. We all want to say Yes, everyone wants to say yes, we know is uncomfortable. No, is is confrontational. No is a problem. So when we say no, we expect it’s going to be met with friction. Instead of acceptance. Yeah. Well, I think that’s


Mallory Gordon  53:21

lifestyles. Yeah, I think. I think as humans, we’re more apt to give redirection. Yeah, than we are to say no,


Mickey Gordon  53:27

right? Right. If somebody keeps playing with your butthole, you just flip over and be like, nope, nope, nope, just gonna clench my butt cheeks and put it on the bed. And maybe I’ll stop. Yeah, right. We’re back to the animal again. Here we go. But how about some frustrations with our present?


Mallory Gordon  53:42

Yes. I think there’s some an important keywords here. Or phrases, as we’re being present and having conversations around this. The whole I feel. Right, yeah. Owning what you’re trying to say. I feel like or I feel as if


Mickey Gordon  54:03

that’s so important for communicating frustrations, to say I feel versus you I will


Mallory Gordon  54:11

raise my hand. Very, very high. I catch myself still today. Fucking that up.


Mickey Gordon  54:17

Yeah. Well, it’s it’s really I would say, it’s probably one of the most common ways that two people argue about when four people are involved. And you go, this is you guys. Always you guys. You guys, you guys. But you didn’t say what behavior is making you feel like and why it’s a problem. Like, maybe we don’t matter. Maybe you don’t hear us. Maybe this friendship isn’t what we thought it was. Yeah, maybe we don’t maybe our health isn’t important to you. So you didn’t get tested. I mean, you when you talk about you, it’s confrontational.


Mallory Gordon  54:51

I feel like maybe we’re not a match because X, Y or Z. I feel like we could be a great match and I’d like to know more about x


Mickey Gordon  55:00

Yeah, actually, you can use I feel in a positive way to 100%. Yeah. But I feel is so much more important because it brings the focus back to your emotions, your boundaries, your well being, I feel is so much better than you.


Mallory Gordon  55:15

I feel like when you say that you’re holding yourself accountable and giving, you’re giving your perspective on that situation, specifically, and it opens the floor up to let other people contribute to it and give their perspective honestly and openly. Instead of accusatory or unwanted like, because let’s face it, we, for you and I, we we collect introverts, and when we look at them and go you they’re like, ah, not me. Don’t look at me, don’t put me on a pedestal like they hate. They’ve not necessarily they like affirmation, and very small doses and very varying degrees. But


Mickey Gordon  55:57

there’s some version of you that was Russian, or were you grew from Despicable Me? I mean, what was that? I missed it? Did they make you made an accent? It just made no sense whatsoever. It just happened.


Mallory Gordon  56:07

We’re just not gonna talk about it. All right, let


Mickey Gordon  56:08

that go. Segue and go and segue. How about, you know that just saying the word, if I walk up to you and go, you suck? You know exactly where I stand, you know exactly how I feel I pointed at you and I said something


Mallory Gordon  56:20

you said or I do it very well.


Mickey Gordon  56:24

But, you know, if I look at you, and I say, I feel like what you did, makes me question my value to you. I said the same thing. And I told you that now I have reservations about where I stand, because of your behavior. And I never said


Mallory Gordon  56:44

I disagree. It changes the conversation, you said, this is my opinion of you. Versus this is how I feel given.


Mickey Gordon  56:52

All right. Don’t get me wrong, guys, a lot of times my default is fuck you. I just go straight for the jugular. But I’m a little more aggressive than some people. So I mean, I do think, though, that when it’s with another couple, because what we just talked about a lot of it was just kind of interpersonal, in with you and your wife, you and your partner. But what if it’s with another couple? How do you communicate with another couple when you’ve got a disconnect in the now a disconnect in the present? Right? It’s I still think you focus on on yourself, you focus on your throne room? What are your rules and your boundaries? And how are they being impacted by the behavior that you’re uncomfortable with?


Mallory Gordon  57:34

I mean, we’re already in a in a very vulnerable position anyway. I think you have to try to go into the conversation. Not pissed off with an open mind a very open mind. Don’t make a snap decision in the moment because the conversation may be worth the outcome, right? When you and it’s harder, especially when something may may hit a nerve or sparks some interfere. Just pause, let it let it develop. Encourage the conversation, encourage the dialogue around it.


Mickey Gordon  58:09

Yeah, I’m going to throw something out here. That will bother some people. But I’m going to encourage you guys to hear me out on this one. There are a lot of people out there that are fairly introverted in their nature, we collect them as casual swinger, it’s just something


Mallory Gordon  58:24

we’ve always done fucking attracted to them like, Oh,


Mickey Gordon  58:27

you are a question about it. Yeah. But I think one of the challenges they have is talking period about how they feel what they don’t I mean, they let extroverts do all the work because it’s easier. But here’s the problem. They have boundaries. They have rules, they have feelings, they have expectations, they have all these things, but they aren’t necessarily as open about communicating them as extroverts are. So what I’m going to encourage the introverts of the world that are listening to this episode, right now to do is when you feel in the present, like you’re not being heard, write it down, write down what you’re thinking, write down what you’re feeling, write down, the expectation that you feel isn’t being met. But how you feel about that not being met, don’t blame anybody for it. And as the people reading or seeing or experiencing what this person is saying, I encourage you to listen with an open mind, open ears and an open heart. Because that person is doing their best to communicate and if you shut them down, they’ll never do it again.


Mallory Gordon  59:28

Yeah, they need one example to pull from that kind of paves the way for the rest of relationship. It’s very black and white, true or false. Yes or no black and white. Were extra.


Mickey Gordon  59:45

Yeah, we just talked, talking.


Mallory Gordon  59:48

Like you there’s almost, especially if it’s socially and organically something that has very little consequence, where you may not remember speaking a sentence but an introvert may grab on to that, what you said, and internalize it and mold that older and bring that up six months from now. And you’re like, I don’t even remember that. I said that


Mickey Gordon  1:00:08

in the middle of a different sentence too. And you’re like, What the fuck? Yeah, happens all the time. Anyway, I digress. So what kind of conversations we not having some that we probably shouldn’t? Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  1:00:18

I, I think anything to do with religion, politics, you know, anything that falls under those umbrellas,


Mickey Gordon  1:00:27

anything that Fox News or CNN talk about on the regular we should probably not talk about. Yeah. So I


Mallory Gordon  1:00:31

and I love you and you’re my husband, I don’t even talk about that stuff with you. For me. It’s super personal. I do enjoy dialogue and discourse. But in very small doses, just because I like having that be very private to my person. My my opinion on those things are mine. I feel the same way about money. Yeah. And if I if I really feel compelled to evangelize, I’ll do so. On a different platform and in a different methodology.


Mickey Gordon  1:01:01

That’s what Facebook’s for apparently.


Mallory Gordon  1:01:03

No, I’d never do it on social media. I’m


Mickey Gordon  1:01:05

kidding. Yeah. I’m


Mallory Gordon  1:01:06

that weirdo?


Mickey Gordon  1:01:09

Yeah. Well, I mean, how about like, I don’t know, local couples, like we suck at meeting friends, like live in an hour of us. Okay. We don’t talk to enough people. They live close to us. I think that’s something in our present that we do badly.


Mallory Gordon  1:01:25

Yeah. Oh, 100%. I think when we get to the future, part of this conversation that goes comes in collects asks, I’m sure he’s on his way. He’ll be here momentarily. And we’ll talk a little bit more about that. But yeah, it’s something we could definitely improve upon. I think we’re very blessed and fortunate to travel to these humans that we’ve collected and that like us and want to keep us around that there’s a certain level of comfort in there and it in some way inhibits us from expanding our boundaries, but the same time we’re very comfortable in there.


Mickey Gordon  1:02:01

Yeah. What am I Oh, no matter what any you fuckers Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  1:02:03

Ah, see, you can go to whole


Mickey Gordon  1:02:07

damn it. I did it again. Dammit, dammit. All right, I did it. Whatever. It’s just you guys. Alright, so what about our present together before the ghost gets here? You know, 16 years of being tied at the hip. What sort of things have been shaped by our path? Do you think?


Mallory Gordon  1:02:27

My tolerance for your fucking sound effects? Oh, whatever. Oh, my sound? How about honestly, to a fault? We’re both guilty of that?


Mickey Gordon  1:02:35

Oh, yeah. You know, I think you’re more honest with me when you get mad at me.


Mallory Gordon  1:02:39

Um, I think it’s efficiency. Honestly, I just want to shorten the pathway. Like, we have an established level of comfort where I know I don’t have to always soften the edges. And I can just like, be like, Hey, I feel like this period. And I don’t have to exaggerate or elongate the conversation. I’m just trying to be honest and put it out there. Maybe I need a resolution. Maybe I don’t but bam, there it is Tourette’s?


Mickey Gordon  1:03:07

You get a little of that. Well, hey, I’m gonna I’m gonna turn that around on you. And that we have collectively really made an effort to focus on the positive Oh, motherfucker.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:15

There’s, there’s so much negative shit in the world and lives that we could focus on. But pouring energy into the positive is very important for us in our relationship and as individuals. Yeah. And parents and all that good stuff. What about being better about asking what we want?


Mickey Gordon  1:03:37

Yeah. Asking for the business. It’s something I need to get better at. But you’re really good at it.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:43

I think just asking what we want of each other or have this experience. I think we’ve gotten good at Yeah, that’s something we’re doing well in the present, executing it and being better at other things. It’s something for the future.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:55

You know what I think something that we’ve gotten better at as a couple in our present based on our past experiences with each other and externally is taking no for an answer from each other. Oh, 100 Without getting mad. It’s not personal.


Mallory Gordon  1:04:07

I think it’s second nature that I do it without a thought. I think my if I had to triage it, I check in with you make sure you’re cool. No is all I need? Understanding a little bit why? I I appreciate that. But there’s never like any remorse or recounting the conversation and going but what if like, that has never happened?


Mickey Gordon  1:04:31

No. Okay. Oh, that’s good, I guess. Okay, that’s good, I guess,


Mallory Gordon  1:04:37

I guess, I suppose. No, I


Mickey Gordon  1:04:39

think it’s great. I just I feel like there’s a lot of opportunities for me to get that wrong. And that’s what I worry about. I always want to make you happy.


Mallory Gordon  1:04:46

What about this one? Never assigned to malice What can be more easily explained through stupidity, miscommunication or frustration.


Mickey Gordon  1:04:54

We’re both guilty of doing that wrong on the raw because you can explain almost every behavior I exhibit Through stupidity.


Mallory Gordon  1:05:01

That’s not true. miscut miscommunication I think is probably the number one.


Mickey Gordon  1:05:07

Yeah, I think so. I think that that’s that’s 100% the case. And I’m just gonna reiterate what Mallory just said, because it’s a good rule for life, never assigned to malice. What can be more easily explained through stupidity, miscommunication, right? Or frustration like somebody just missed the boat, right? It’s not everybody’s evil just because they didn’t agree with you in the moment.


Mallory Gordon  1:05:29

I think I can shorten this is just don’t assume the worst. Have the conversation. Ask the question. And that


Mickey Gordon  1:05:36

applies to the lifestyle in your present right now folks don’t assign to malice. What’s easier explained through something else? That’s a really, really good rule. And you know, one that I think is important that’s made a big difference for you and I, it’s never have conditions. Never say this or else. Or else is the worst thing you can say to your partner, or to someone you want something from.


Mallory Gordon  1:05:58

Yeah, that to me is emotional negotiation. We’re just not going to have that. No,


Mickey Gordon  1:06:05

no, none of that. That’s that’s probably bad. Anyway, we should keep an eye toward our future negative


Mallory Gordon  1:06:11

emotional negotiations. I heard me say that and then I replayed it and I had to correct my so did the ghost. He’s probably told you motherfucker. I don’t even have pants on. Oh, it’s so


Mickey Gordon  1:06:23

good. Report. pantsless will you be pantsless in the future? You’ll find out we’ll be back in two seconds I’m not sure about you guys. But these ghosts are really starting to drive me crazy.


Mallory Gordon  1:06:54

Are they because I forgot my pants.


Mickey Gordon  1:06:57

I love that you didn’t wear pants in your past your present or now and in the future you’re not wearing? Yeah, I think you’re just pantsless I am. You know, we think about our swinger future all the time. Pretty soon the boys will be like out of the house and we’ll have time to do more things like I don’t know. play at home.


Mallory Gordon  1:07:13

It’s my potties. No pants. Yeah. On their pants all the time. All the toys. How


Mickey Gordon  1:07:18

about some trouble? Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  1:07:19

I mean, we travel some now, but more travels would be great.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:22

Yeah, we just gotta wait for the dogs to finish up with that whole living thing.


Mallory Gordon  1:07:25

Mm hmm. Yeah. The crate sexier content, which I know we’re scheduling like the sexy pictures like in between.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:32

We’ve been really good about taking pictures lately. I’m pretty happy about that.


Mallory Gordon  1:07:35

I’m not I’m not mad. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  1:07:37

I need to maybe lay off the button a little bit because I took 1300 pictures to get like 40 because oh my god. Well, I just kept holding the button down. So I have so many photos of basically the same thing. When I scroll down. I have


Mallory Gordon  1:07:49

to I don’t know you said you’re gonna share that file with me. And I’m like, I don’t know that I want to see all 1300 Because my my own worst critic and maybe the edited I don’t know. I think


Mickey Gordon  1:07:59

you’ll hate it. Honestly. That’s why don’t you Yeah, because you’re like, now you’re


Mallory Gordon  1:08:02

like, now just sounds like you edit the shit out of them. I


Mickey Gordon  1:08:06

don’t edit the photos themselves. I just like if there’s one where you’re looking at me with your tongue sticking out? I don’t necessarily like use that one. Yeah, it’s


Mallory Gordon  1:08:13

I’m gonna go ahead and like ruin the magic for everyone and let them know that I have a couple tattoos that you take out.


Mickey Gordon  1:08:21

That’s the only thing I added. Now in in the few I know


Mallory Gordon  1:08:25

you left my cellulite is the day I was like, Oh, ouch. But you know what? I’m human. And I fucking have it. So it’s our as advertised. Yeah, no, I actually appreciate that. It was just a little uncomfortable for me to go, huh? I had my


Mickey Gordon  1:08:40

ass up over that in the past, folks. So this is the ghost is not looking at that right now. Gallery the ghost is angry.


Mallory Gordon  1:08:48

segways it’s my word of the day.


Mickey Gordon  1:08:51

Oh, the segways her word of the day. But no. And hey, you know what, maybe we’ll set up a studio in this house when the boy goes and like have somewhere to record that’s legit where Yeah, you’ll sound quality. We


Mallory Gordon  1:09:02

will get our casual swinger week together. Hey, casual swingers. The Fugees name needs to happen. Yes, it does.


Mickey Gordon  1:09:10

I think everybody’s been telling us it needs to happen. It really does. But Is any of that stuff influenced by the decisions that we made in the present now that we’re in the future? I mean, because all this stuff is happening now. Because that’s what happened. Right? The ghost is taking us to the future. And we’re playing at home. We’re having house parties. We’re traveling. We’re creating sexier content. You never wear pants. We have cash when you’re weak. How much of that is influenced by the stuff we did like the throne room for


Mallory Gordon  1:09:36

the throne room. 100%. I think that’s something that will be ever present and carried on into the future. Because it’s important to us to protect each other in our in our feelings. I think that’s that’s huge. And I think it’s very important to remind each other where we stand. We’re human beings and we’ve been together 16 years and I don’t doubt that I’m your favorite woman on this planet. Aside from our trip for my children,


Mickey Gordon  1:10:03

no, I like you better than them. Just saying.


Mallory Gordon  1:10:08

However, I think it’s important for us to remind each other and I don’t I see that continuing on.


Mickey Gordon  1:10:15

I do too. Now something that I think is critical in the future,


Mallory Gordon  1:10:21

no deal breakers.


Mickey Gordon  1:10:22

Yeah. 100%


Mallory Gordon  1:10:24

we we outline that year,


Mickey Gordon  1:10:26

our future exists almost exclusively because of that rule. We will always be a future for us because of no deal breakers.


Mallory Gordon  1:10:34

I think we, we decided to write the ending of our story. Before it happened, saying we’re going to succeed no matter what. We just both have to want that.


Mickey Gordon  1:10:46

How many things in your life could be achieved? If failure were impossible? What would you try to do?


Mallory Gordon  1:10:53

I definitely still would not jump out of a plane.


Mickey Gordon  1:10:55

Yeah, you pussy. Come on. You got this?


Mallory Gordon  1:10:57

Yeah. Hey, what about you? I know. There’s something you’re not very good at?


Mickey Gordon  1:11:03

Yeah. Yeah. So here in the future, I am better at asking for the business and telling people, like we said in the present, this is something I’m bad at this is something that I fear. This is something that I don’t want to be told no. But I actually more than being told no, what I’m afraid of, is making someone uncomfortable. Who has to tell me no, I need to make it easy for them to tell me that they’re not comfortable moving forward at this time. It doesn’t mean I’m not good enough. And that’s something I have to come to terms with, I have to recognize that not good enough for you doesn’t mean I’m not good enough period. That just means I don’t make me to meet up or match up with what you’re looking for. And in this future. I’m good with that. In this future. I’m better at that in this future. I can look you in the face and go, I want you and if you don’t want me, it’s cool. We’re still friends.


Mallory Gordon  1:11:56

Yeah, it’s, you’re still part of the same puzzle. You just your ends might not fit together. Right. And I don’t know, in the future, how I’m going to do this. But my goal is to be a better assist for you in those in those manners. Because you’re 100%, right? It doesn’t mean you’re not good enough. You’re just not a match.


Mickey Gordon  1:12:19

Yeah. And I think in my case, I got to stop making women feel like I’m not interested. So I won’t take a chance on doing that. And that’s something I am bad about guys. And I wonder how many of you are just like me, that you just either keep it so platonic. No, what I tend to do is I tend to go down the path of humor, right? I’m just I start making jokes or, you know, making it silly or whatever, just so I don’t have to worry about it never goes there. So there’s no question. There’s no one’s ever uncomfortable if they’re laughing. But the only person that’s uncomfortable in the nights over is me because I wonder what I missed. In the future, this me doesn’t happen.


Mallory Gordon  1:13:04

Okay. Well, you say the word whatever I can do to help support and encourage that you let me know, where does blowjob blow job. Got it? About you? This is gonna sound crazy, but knowing what I want the business, the future means better at that thing. So, uh huh. Sometimes I get caught up in the intensity of the environment or the general socialization especially for starting to connect a little bit. Or if we have a well defined timeline, like with a new couple or new person, sometimes it skews how I feel I’m I’m so engrossed in the moment that I’m not checking in and going. How do I feel in my sexually attractive person, because it takes me a long time in general to get there. But I don’t have a lot of check ins initially, I’m almost caught off guard when someone approaches me after a meeting or a date, and they’re like, Hey, this is great. I want to and I’m almost shocked by it, when it’s the whole fucking intention to be there. Like, I wonder, and maybe it’s my own innate fear of indifference or rejection, or rejecting them of some degree. To know what I actually want to I need to let myself be at ease with whatever decision that is, even if I have to make it on the fly. I have to stop letting that pressure in the moment gets me and I have to be a little more present and check in.


Mickey Gordon  1:14:40

Okay, well, it you know, the present version of us had a kind of funky rule about travelers because all roads lead to Orlando a lot of you guys out there and listen to know that we live in Orlando Flint point everybody comes to Orlando sooner or later. Lots of hot dates and fast dates and speed dates and all that shit out there. People go in Hey, We’re going to be staying at on I drive tonight and we’d love to hang out with a cool couple. A Mickey Mallory, we can’t find a cool couple. So we’d like to hang out with you. What do you guys got going on? And we’re like, No, we don’t really do travelers. I mean, that doesn’t mean we won’t hang out people hang out with anybody, but we pretty much take play off the table immediately. Yet we continue to tell people in the past in the present, that we don’t we remote. We don’t play with anybody locally because we just don’t want everybody that we hang out with all our friends. Everybody lives somewhere else. Why the hell don’t we meet travelers? If everybody we meet and hang out with a blade with lives without I


Mallory Gordon  1:15:37

really feel like we’re just like, we’re really horrible fucking swingers.


Mickey Gordon  1:15:42

Not casual. We’re terrible. So maybe the present version of us is doing it wrong with the future version of us could do


Mallory Gordon  1:15:49

it better. Where we were much more flippin. I think early on. Oh, god. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  1:15:53

we’re like, sure. In the sticks. Yeah. Have a choice. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  1:15:57

that evolution is really strange to play it back.


Mickey Gordon  1:16:01

It kind of is. But I think maybe what could come from us being good travelers is some good relationships.


Mallory Gordon  1:16:10

I was gonna say I think maybe we were a little short sighted, maybe something we can experience. And the months and years to come and see where that takes us. And you never know. Open it up.


Mickey Gordon  1:16:22

friends that live really far away might move to Florida one day, you never know. I didn’t say it. I know. Nope. Nope, said nothing. Can’t look at me like that. I didn’t say anything now. Nope. Still looking at me.


Mallory Gordon  1:16:35

We’ll feed them corn another day.


Mickey Gordon  1:16:40

All right. Well, that’s the future. And the ghosts are done with us. What did we learn? What do we want more than anything out of all of this?


Mallory Gordon  1:16:50

I think we want to be better. Yeah. I think we want to maximize our opportunities for growth and experiences. I think it’s good to check in and give some perspective on where we’ve been, where we are and where we want to be. Yeah. You know, we have very busy lives, you and I both have selected jobs that our careers, our children are older, we can get caught up in the minutiae of life. And this is literally been kind of a a little check in moment for the two of us and go, What do we want? We, here’s where we were, here’s the idea of the conversations we had looking back into our past and how that affects today. And what we know now what tomorrow in the future looks like kind


Mickey Gordon  1:17:41

of crazy, isn’t it? To sit back and look at your past, your present? And what that present means for your future? And go, Oh, we didn’t really plan this shit.


Mallory Gordon  1:17:51

No, I like being able to draw the lines though and pull from experiences and go. i If I want to do it differently, or if I don’t, these are the reasons why and be a little more intentional with it. Hey, we’d live life affords us the opportunity to deal with things as they come about more than we probably ever want it to.


Mickey Gordon  1:18:16

We are reactive creatures and relational as you mentioned earlier, but you know, now that the ghosts are done with us, we did promise these guys no matter how long we run, no matter how late we run, you’re going to get whiskey of the month. So Mallory Why don’t you tell everybody where to find us since it’s been a while and we’ll come back with whiskey of the month and we’ll put a cap on or I will put a bow on this bitch.


Mallory Gordon  1:18:38

Ooh, a bow. Oh, it’s


Mickey Gordon  1:18:41



Mallory Gordon  1:18:42

So we are casual swinger everywhere. Casual swinger.com is our website you can message us at podcast that casual swinger.com I am not drinking high test bourbon anymore.


Mickey Gordon  1:18:54

Do this Bielski bucket really


Mallory Gordon  1:18:56

my tongue is numb. We are also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, which is the dirtiest and the dating sites W nation Cassidy so


Mickey Gordon  1:19:11

there it is, folks. We’ll be back in a quick hot second this Christmas episode. been listening?


Mallory Gordon  1:19:33

And we’re back with whiskey of the month.


Mickey Gordon  1:19:37

Oh, is it time for that? That is like, I don’t know. I kind of love that new segment. I really do. Candy is


Mallory Gordon  1:19:42

dandy, but whiskey makes you frisky. For those


Mickey Gordon  1:19:45

of you that don’t know what whiskey the month is or this is your first time listening to casual swinger. Keep in mind that whiskey of the month is our pick this month for a favorite whiskey which could be a rye could be a blend could be a bourbon could be a whiskey, but more important than


Mallory Gordon  1:19:57

to twist his arm for a Scotch but well we’ll wait Okay, so maybe one


Mickey Gordon  1:20:01

day it’ll be a Scotch but in this moment, these whiskies are under 50 bucks and widely available anywhere you buy whiskey. So Mallory, what is December’s whiskey of love?


Mallory Gordon  1:20:16

I love this one. I actually love this whiskey for a very, very long time on this one is angels envy, which has a beautiful story about it. It’s, let’s let’s start with what is angels envy. Let’s let’s just start there. stablishing. So it’s a port finish. It it’s blended in small batches of eight to 12 barrels at a time. The company says that the bourbon is tick, typically aged up to six years, which makes it fairly fucking Young. Early, it’s hard. It’s hard to find a gentle generationally established bourbon in the under 50 range. But for its taste in age, I call this a bargain. It’s finished in a Ruby Port Wine cast for an additional three to six months for the finishing process the company uses was 60 gallon Ruby portfolios made from French oak. Yeah. And those are imported from Portugal. So it sounds like a lot of like he said she should


Mickey Gordon  1:21:23

bullshit ships move it around, like the Portugal and give us some wood frame.


Mallory Gordon  1:21:27

It’s French wood for Portugal. I don’t know how much of impact packs the flavor profile because we know enough to be dangerous but not enough to know where that influence comes from. I know I like bourbons finish in forecast. I like the flavor it provides especially on the endnotes in this in this age. They tend to be a little young, a little hotter, but I feel angels envy gives me a nice experience given the price given the heater, especially on on the rocks, let them melt a little bow for a water back.


Mickey Gordon  1:22:08

So the thing about angels envy is it was the first really finished whiskey out there right i mean today it’s all the rage right everything from wood for double oaked to Brecon REO or


Mallory Gordon  1:22:20

K were a trailblazer in the finishing cast very


Mickey Gordon  1:22:23

much so it was a fantasy of their master distiller and one of the reasons we selected handles envy for today is because this episode’s been a story right? We’ve talked about A Christmas Carol and, and all these other things. And I think the story of angels envy is probably one of the cooler stories of any of the whiskies


Mallory Gordon  1:22:39

out there. It’s it’s a very emotional, impactful story.


Mickey Gordon  1:22:42

It is it’s a generational family story that starts with a gentleman by the name of Lincoln Henderson God rest his soul. He died back in 2013. Now Lincoln Henderson was a master craftsman of whiskey with a healthy respect for tradition. But he also possessed a restless instinct for constant improvement during his years at Brown Forman Lincoln was the creator of many notable brands including Woodford Reserve and gentlemen Jack,


Mallory Gordon  1:23:09

which, I mean, yeah. You walk into any bar that has a mid line, right? Yeah. And Woodford gentlemen Jack. That was actually really really popular back in the early 2000s. Mid 2000s.


Mickey Gordon  1:23:25

Yeah, very much so. And I mean, hell, what most favorite cousin still drinks gentlemen Jack. Yeah, it’s there’s quite a few folks that put that down. We’re not a Jack Daniels house here. But you know, what I can tell you is that Lincoln Henderson was link or in rather angels envy was Lincoln Henderson’s first and only independent project everything else was for a distillery. And he considered angels envy his masterpiece. So a little more about Lincoln Henderson. He was a man of many accolades. He was one of the inaugural inductees into the Kentucky bourbon Hall of Fame, and was also awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award from malt advocate. nearly 40 years of international spirits spirits experience gave Lincoln unique perspective on the industry. He often considered how techniques used in one type of whiskey or distilling would influence others. Everything from wine to gin, to vodka to rum, all the things you see out there today, right things that are finished in rum casks or toasted barrel finishes, report finishes or Cabernet finishes right? French run lead oath blood oath,


Mallory Gordon  1:24:31

which is a blend Yeah, the blend where it’s finished in a specific cast absolute stick.


Mickey Gordon  1:24:38

All the boss hogs are finished in funky casks. All this came about from angels envy a $50 Fuckin whiskey. Now Lincoln had as many ideas as he did barrels of whiskey that he tasted. He logged all of these into a little black book that he passed down to his son Wes, that little black book if we continue To enjoy his distinctive and particular plans for whiskey for generations to come, because that black book was passed on to his son. And when Lincoln came out of retirement to create angels envy was just collaborate with his son on a bourbon finished in Port barrels. Much like Mallory just said,


Mallory Gordon  1:25:17

can I interrupt chan horse? Was it coined in just invade the time? No, it was not. It wasn’t coined. He does. Foreshadowing and foreshadowing Go ahead. A little foreshadowing


Mickey Gordon  1:25:27

little future speak there. So he had had the idea in this little black book for years, but he’d never had the chance to explore it because he always worked for somebody else. He was retired and it was just as important to Lincoln to be creating a new type of whiskey as it was to be building something with his family. Wes, his son Kyle eventually joined the family business to help with the fledgling brand and learn side by side with his father and his grandfather. Rooted in 200 years of bourbon heritage and inspired by legendary master distiller Lincoln Henderson’s lifetime spent crafting these fine spirits. Angels envy is in fact, his masterpiece. The 5% of spirit lost each year during the aging process in a barrel is called the angel share.


Mallory Gordon  1:26:15

Pause for effect there. The angels share


Mickey Gordon  1:26:19

the 5% lost to evaporation,


Mallory Gordon  1:26:22

which is on average, what happens


Mickey Gordon  1:26:25

when you age whiskey in a barrel you lose 5% a year. That’s called the angel share. That’s the share that the angels take in exchange for what you get from that barrel. After testing his own finished whiskey for the first time, Mr. Henderson joked that we’d finally gotten a better deal than the angels did. And so angels envy was born. The very angel wings on the bottle signify homage to Lincoln Henderson himself who died in 2013.


Mallory Gordon  1:26:56

So did he die before after initial production?


Mickey Gordon  1:27:00

Just after, but it was before the


Mallory Gordon  1:27:03

bottles were that he was able to coin then no later than the angel


Mickey Gordon  1:27:07

share. Yeah, he coined the angel share and then he died and they put his wings for his angel on the bottle. Yeah. Which I think is just a fucking awesome story. Really cool. But let’s say a little bit about the whiskey itself. Right? What’s the nose like on it from your perspective?


Mallory Gordon  1:27:25

My nose, although a bit muted in retrospect, you know, it’s got a little bit of oak and Fidella maybe a bit of very jam. drifts upwards. Mingle, then I’ve heard this. I find it. I have a hard time catching it. But I have had it here and there. I’ll be into X poker. peanut shells. Yes, you definitely feel a sweetness like a syrups. Yes. From it.


Mickey Gordon  1:27:59

Yeah, a little bit. And I think that’s common, especially for for finished whiskies? Yes.


Mallory Gordon  1:28:04

And it’s definitely they typically finished with whiskies tend to be, I don’t wanna call them lower proof, but average proof. Yeah, so this is at or under 90.


Mickey Gordon  1:28:12

Yeah, it’s like 86 proof, which means it’s not going to be super harsh or super hot. Yeah. But it means that it’s also not extremely or overly distilled because they want you to get that port finish. They want you to taste the port.


Mallory Gordon  1:28:25

And it’s definitely layered in the experience.


Mickey Gordon  1:28:29

Absolutely. So in terms of a palette, it’s a little like Melanie said a little vanilla, a little oak leather and all comes together with peppercorn and raisins and all the different things that they add in that finishing process for being finished for only three to six months, you’d expect maybe a little more impact from the port barrels. It’s not really port heavy, but it’s just not the case.


Mallory Gordon  1:28:53

Which I think is why you like it. You typically are not only deep port finishes for the Breckenridge. Breckenridge. I love Yeah, yeah. Especially as like a nightcap like post dinner drink.


Mickey Gordon  1:29:08

Agreed. You know, but the finish itself the finish has a lot a lot going for it right. It’s got a lot of different flavors and impacts and smells especially like when Mallory drinks it when you water back it some of that that aroma comes out of it a little bit.


Mallory Gordon  1:29:22

Yeah. And I I haphazardly water back it. I’ma let it I smelt water back. But it does bring out the layers of it. And I do prefer it to be unmixed mixing it in a Manhattan or an old fashion or any other myriad of bourbon whiskey based drinks. I think it’s best served either neat, if you’re of that ilk, or on on the rocks and let the ice melt and give it a little water back because it’ll bring out some of the softer more pleasant your flavors of it.


Mickey Gordon  1:29:56

Yeah. So just kind of wrapping up how we feel about it. envy. It’s a great whiskey. We love it. It’s whiskey the month for December. And it is because you know, despite finished bourbons being commonplace today and all these different finishes, like we talked about earlier things like wood for double oak or Breckinridge port finish, there’s a lot of them out there. You know, this was an experiment by a master distiller someone who is a legend in his own time. And it’s become a common creative outlet for other distilleries to test their skill sets. The mindset and the industry have all changed over a very short period, in large part, it’s due to angels envy, angels, MD port finisher, forwards, I would say a really good sip, it’s a great pour, especially at the $50 price point. It’s not as bold as you see from other bourbons, like yellow stone, or again, wood for double oak or something like that, or even Elijah, toasted barrel finish. But they’ve caught on. And I think it’s all in part to a story, a family and a master distiller that had a story to tell, and his little black book, and I think that it rounds out this episode of casual Swinging in a pretty good way. Don’t you know?


Mallory Gordon  1:31:04

Yeah, I mean, it’s definitely in the upper echelon of that $50 price point. But I think as far as the value for the experience and the quality of bourbon, you get the different layers you go through if you really like to experience each and every one, like with a small yay, right? I think it’s well worth that price point and a value at that.


Mickey Gordon  1:31:25

A whiskey. Somalia.


Mallory Gordon  1:31:26

Yeah. Is there something is that what is it called a Somalia? No, I don’t


Mickey Gordon  1:31:33

know what it’s called. Honestly, there’s got to be we’re not experts at this shit. Just like whiskey.


Mallory Gordon  1:31:37

Very much so. You don’t call we don’t play tennis. We don’t collect stamps. Like some


Mickey Gordon  1:31:42

people who’ve seen combine your pictures on Twitter. They’ve seen the bar the casual bar. Oh, they do like whiskey. We got a little bit of that. But hey, before we leave you guys, it is the Christmas season. This is the last episode of casual swinger for 2021


Mallory Gordon  1:31:55

Get the fuck out of here.


Mickey Gordon  1:31:57

Yeah, we’re gonna take a little break here. Just relax. Spend time with family. I’m going to did all this sweet girl. I


Mallory Gordon  1:32:02

think we did that for the first three weeks. It wasn’t really a break. It was crazy. I got a promotion like things have been fucking crazy.


Mickey Gordon  1:32:10

They have but we’re gonna leave you guys with a Christmas wish. And all that Mallory kind of jump in with me on this one. But our Christmas wish for you is that each and every one of you has a Christmas and a new year. They can’t help but be the best you’ve ever had. That your hearts your minds. And of course your nether regions are blissfully filled with the best of times and the sexiest of friends that the knowledge you’ve gained from your own past and present equipped you for both a new and exciting future together as lovers, lifestyle leaders in France hurray for the sex and yet another accent has joined us on


Mallory Gordon  1:32:44

I don’t even know what I’m doing. I you’ve gotten me white girl wasted over here so I


Mickey Gordon  1:32:49

apparently did with only two lashes CAMI slopped hurt. I love my little Merry Christmas to you. Merry


Mallory Gordon  1:32:55

Merry Christmas, Mickey and Merry Christmas to all of you each and every one and have a


Mickey Gordon  1:33:01

good night. Say goodbye. Y’all been listening to casual swinger? Oh, by the way, hang out real quick was the night before Christmas and all through the house? Everyone was feeling a little warning. Yeah. Even the mouse Mallory in her thong and I in my chaps. I just settled down for a nice piece of ass. Went out on the lawn. I heard a great clatter a sprung from my piece to see towards the matter. Away to the window. I flew in a dash. I tripped on the dog and busted my ass. What what’s my drunken eyes should appear a shitty old sled eight mangy reindeer of fat little driver half out of a sled, a sock on his tool and abroad as head. World Tubby was high as a kite. Nothing he said sounded quite right. Well shithead whoa asshole. Hey, stupid in butts. Slow the fuck down or I’ll cut off your nuts. Watch out for that lamppost. Don’t hit that tree. Quit shaking the sled. I gotta go pee. He just killed the lamppost and the tree gotta rub. Somewhere thereafter. he puked on my shrubs. He stretched any farted for his first trick. I knew right away. That must be St. Nick. down the chimney. He came like a bat out of hell. I knew right away. The fat fucker fell. He was chubby in drunken standing a chore. He looked like a bum smelled like a whore. He stumbled to the kitchen and poured himself a drink and whipped out his tool and piston my sink. Back by the tree he reached in his sack. Instead of kids toys. Some new things were packed a caulk ring, a G string and six types of oil, a dildo so long it laid in a coil. He stuffed my stocking with bourbon and beer, and a bright red bud pluck that said Santa was here. A box of unique condoms was seen as Next find in six pairs of panties, the edible kind under the tree when a pair of fake tits and a strap on complete with a penis that spits his back was left empty as he took his leave, with one last Dong tucked up under his sleeve. He sprang for his sleigh, but his legs were like lead. He fell on his ass and broke wind again instead. As he finally got seated, he said with a snare. Get me home. God dammit I’m ready for a beer. Santa took off with a thunderous heave he yelled piss on you all these casual toys are for me that’s just a little something for you guys from us and casual swinger. Merry Christmas to each and every one of you. From our house to yours, may Sana Lee do something fantastic. Under your tree