A living history of Hedonism II: The Ultimate Ambassador

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The first in a three part series, Mickey & Mallory sit down with one of the longest tenured guests in the history of Hedonism II! We hear stories spanning 38 years of the most notorious resort, perhaps on Earth!

Howard Harinstein isn’t just a customer of Hedonism II, he’s the ultimate ambassador. He runs the Sandy Hook Reunion party in NJ, a Super Bowl Gathering, and spends 6 weeks (minimum) a year at Hedonism II. His efforts to keep people together not just year-round, but OVER the years have made him a celebrity at Hedonism II, and we sat down with him to learn a little more about what he feels are the highlights (and lowlights) of his years as a hedonist.

Don’t miss parts two and three, where we interview Jon Gross of the Fluffernutters, who is widely credited with saving the resort, and Harry Lange, the majority owner of the resort! These interviews will give you an insight into the history and dynamics of everyone’s favorite resort like you’ve never had before!

Hedonism Sandy Hook Reunion Facebook Page What Became of Negril Beach Village Facebook Page

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A Living History of Hedonism II – The Ultimate Ambassador

Thu, 9/2 3:40PM • 1:10:20


hedonism, people, harry, hito, resort, friends, swinger, beach, howard, reunion, party, called, jamaica, hotel, casual, group, week, big, years, walk


Mickey Gordon, Howard Harenstein, Mallory Gordon


Mallory Gordon  00:10

Welcome to casual swinger. If you’re under 18, the following podcast is not appropriate for you. The subjects and language are for mature audiences only. If you’re not mature in nature, just make sure you’re old enough to vote. We don’t take ourselves seriously ever. No guarantees given regarding the accuracy of any opinions or statements made on this podcast or website or a blog. It’s all in fun, folks. This isn’t Dr. Phil. Now consider yourself the listener properly advised. Welcome back to casual swinger Mallory.


Mickey Gordon  00:48

I’m so glad you remembered your name this week.


Mallory Gordon  00:51

Mickey and we’re so excited to have everyone listening this week. We have a little something different on the docket.


Mickey Gordon  00:57

I think this is a lot different. So obviously we do talk about keto a lot. Which when you guys are listening to this right now. That’s where we are. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  01:05

we’re gonna do fun things. Yeah, yeah, it’s


Mickey Gordon  01:08

in my head. I’m already there.


Mallory Gordon  01:09

Yeah, yeah, I’m ready. But I’m not ready. Right. By the way. Don’t hate just masturbate. And want


Mickey Gordon  01:15

to masturbate. I already had sex. It was good. Thanks for that. I got back from taking the boy to school. And you were like, hey, yeah.


Mallory Gordon  01:23

So ready.


Mickey Gordon  01:24

And what else is different? We got new audio gear. As we did.


Mallory Gordon  01:27

We did this looks very professional. I’m shaking with excitement. And if you’re looking at the mixer, bus buttons right now, do not play with the sound effects. Just want to touch the button. I know you do. Just touch one of them. I don’t think our listeners will appreciate that.


Mickey Gordon  01:41

I don’t think they will either. So it’s funny because Kate and Daryl from swinging down under and this was totally unplanned, totally unplanned. Got basically the same setup Now shake a week. And so she thinks I’m a copycat asshole. She’s like, Fuck you. You suck. And I’m like, No, no, seriously, it’s just good stuff. Yeah, I bought it


Mallory Gordon  02:01

great minds think alike, right? No, I


Mickey Gordon  02:03

don’t know. She has a great mind. I’m just an asshole. But it. It is amazing stuff. So now there’s probably two shows with decent audio because, well, maybe she figured out how to use theirs before we did. But


Mallory Gordon  02:13

yeah, yeah, we’re winging it this morning.


Mickey Gordon  02:15

Yeah, we’re totally figuring it out. But this show is a really big deal for us. We’ve been planning this show for you guys since November. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  02:22

since before November, because we coordinated these interviews before we even got to Jamaica.


Mickey Gordon  02:28

And we did and show this interview. today. This show, which is season one, Episode 14 of casual swinger. It’s called a living history of hedonism to. And this piece is called the ultimate ambassador.


Mallory Gordon  02:43

Perfect title. Yeah, perfect title for the person that we interviewed. Howard is the gentleman and you’ll get to learn a lot about him a lot about the resort a lot about the history. But he is literally the ultimate ambassador. He’s been going there for what, 30 years.


Mickey Gordon  02:59

Yeah, he’s been going there since it was nigro. Beach village. Yeah. Which is absolutely insane. But before we get into that, let’s talk a little bit about you know, what we’re going to be doing this week at Hito. First of which there’s no segment today. So now this episode is going to be just our beginning here. And then we’re going to get into our interview. We have actually two interviews that we did with Howard on the beach. That’s true. So if you hear waves in the background, and it sounds like we’re Hito it’s because we were and we are


Mallory Gordon  03:27

and that was fun.


Mickey Gordon  03:30

You know, that’s when we got the idea for the Naked Truth to do interviews, ask naked because we were all asked naked wait to do the interview. Yeah, that was kind of fun. But what are we doing? So we play a game on Twitter. So a lot of people if you guys have been with us with Rachel’s rascals or you’ve been to the beach to Hito, while we’re there, you’ll notice you’ll see me from a mile away because I wear outrageous top hats


Mallory Gordon  03:52

when he says outrageous. I mean, some of these things are three feet tall. He’s not kidding, which is great for me, because then I never lose you. I always know where you’re at. Right? But he stuffs an object and it usually relates to the day


Mickey Gordon  04:07

we’re doing or maybe it’s something saggy


Mallory Gordon  04:09

and he sticks it under his hat. So throughout the day, you have to guess what’s under the hat. And this is on the beach. This is on social media, and we’re bringing it to our listeners at least what twice we are there


Mickey Gordon  04:22

we are gonna do it twice over there. And the game is called what’s under my hat? Yeah, it’s really simple. I’m gonna post a picture on Twitter. And you guys have to guess what’s under my hat.


Mallory Gordon  04:32

This is one of my favorite parts of the trip because people will come up with some outlandish shit. They really like Jordan. I want to give them prices just for like, great creative right?


Mickey Gordon  04:46

to fucking yard neum and brought it to hedonism and put it under my hat. You’re a genius. How the hell did you think?


Mallory Gordon  04:52

I love it? Is that a threesome?


Mickey Gordon  04:53

Oh, wait a minute. What about super Dave and sea monkeys? Everyday monkey one day I have to put fucking sea monkeys under my hand. Because he gets it every every


Mallory Gordon  05:01

single day


Mickey Gordon  05:02

every day. So I put something under my hat you guys guess what it is and you win cool casual swinger swag. Now, we will give you the opportunity to pick whether you want casual swinger swag, or Hito. Bomb swag, which you guys don’t know, is we’re a production of a company called hero bomb. What that means is that’s our little production company that runs our podcast and Hito balm, because we love the hedonist lifestyle is why we call it keto bum. We love the pursuit of pleasure. And we can put that on any of our shirts as well for you guys. So if we do any schwag for you guys, it could be Hito been branded or casual swinger branded?


Mallory Gordon  05:36

Excellent. So are you actually ready for this week? Like, I feel ready, but I’m looking out in our empty suitcases going, huh?


Mickey Gordon  05:46

Yeah, I think you packed enough medication to save the island from an calamity that might befall them though.


Mallory Gordon  05:52

Hey, do not call out my paranoia is and my idiosyncrasies.


Mickey Gordon  05:58

I’m going to be weak. So I don’t really need clothes. I need a T shirt to get there.


Mallory Gordon  06:02

I always prepare, always ever prepared. Because stuff like that’s harder to get down there real things. We


Mickey Gordon  06:09

really needed this stuff for our games. Yeah. So like, what kind of games are we playing this week? You might get a kick out of that we


Mallory Gordon  06:16

have so many. So many games planned on my favorite is going to be probably rascal fidi, which is essentially finger painting without fingers. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  06:26

yeah, we have canvas. That’s got to be your partner.


Mallory Gordon  06:29

Yeah. So you there’s a canvas. And then there’s an artist or artists. And it turns into either a human flipping slide or the was the frog jumps. Oh, yeah. On when she painted her pussy lab, she


Mickey Gordon  06:45

put all the way up his chest. So naturally, that she he gets on the ground or she gets on the ground. And he’s like, fine, turnabout is fair play. He puts paint all over the underside over her face and gives her a Spartan helmet down the front of her face or his balls were in her eye sockets. Print down her nose, and it just and then of course, they just started wrestling and they look like they recovered and shit. Because if you if you combine every


Mallory Gordon  07:13

every color is brown. It’s every color. Everyone ends up. Yeah, brown


Mickey Gordon  07:17

covered in sand and paint. And I


Mallory Gordon  07:18

did remember to bring soap and body wash for the outdoor shower. Because we stood there the first time we played this, and we’re all covered in paint. It’s starting to dry and crack and we’re like, mmm, this isn’t good. How do we do? Yeah, this


Mickey Gordon  07:31

isn’t good. And you don’t want to? That’s not cool. Yeah, definitely. So that’s rascoe for you do get some other games we’re playing this week we’re playing a game we called Deke stick. And so we just got in a box of suction cup dildos. There’s literally a box of digs,


Mallory Gordon  07:47

which is hilarious because I see your name on this package. And I totally forgot that you had this inspiration for this game. And I’m, you know, working in and trying to get organized for the trip. And I open a bag of dicks. A giant


Mickey Gordon  07:59

bag, the big tech so name a little deck, so


Mallory Gordon  08:01

my hesitation is one. Did I order these? Are these my decks whose whose sticks? Are these? I had to look at the label. Mike, what if these belong to one of the children?


Mickey Gordon  08:10

Yeah, well, the other thing that I have to remember is to take all of your dicks out of my luggage before I travel for work, so I don’t get it


Mallory Gordon  08:16

yet. But the TSA I got news for you. You’re totally carrying my decks in your bag. What’s happening


Mickey Gordon  08:21

in my bag, folks? But then we got that game. And then we have booty licious. Yeah, and we have Guitar Hero. This is gonna be a really epic week for games. We’re having a good time doing this. But you know what the last thing I think that is transportation. Let’s talk about you know, what’s going on here, right.


Mallory Gordon  08:40

So many ways once you get into Montego Bay, especially with going to hedonism, you can do the transport they’re usually set a holiday. Yeah, that’s usually paid to like the group at the resort. However, you cheapest way to get from point A to point it is and and it’s a lot of fun in it. And there’s many times that I miss it because you get to pre meet a lot of the people you’re going to be spending this week with, and it turns into kind of a party bus and get to know you buses and you immediately have friends. The second you walk onto the resort, which


Mickey Gordon  09:09

is really one of our best friends. Oh, yes, yes. And when we met the we didn’t even know how close we were going to be they were traveling with pole pressure. Yes. And they came up with a different group and ended up being one of us.


Mallory Gordon  09:21

And they’re amazing there. And again, that’s a perfect example of why I miss it so much. We take a private car video, which is actually a bus It’s Mr. reasonable. They’ve been so good to us over the years. But with all the luggage and stuff that we bring on and down to the resort. We have to get you know our own transportation because there’s no way that we would fit with us in our luggage.


Mickey Gordon  09:42

Oh hell no.


Mallory Gordon  09:44

Transfer bus.


Mickey Gordon  09:45

So it’s there’s just no way and it’s it’s absolutely unbelievable how much crap we bring with us. And Mr. Reasonable is is amazing.


Mallory Gordon  09:53

Yeah, good people.


Mickey Gordon  09:55

Yeah, it’s just ridiculous. Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  09:58

So my favorite Though is and I’m not gonna do it justice is Tim error. So Tim air is such a small aircraft that takes you directly out of the airport terminal once you get through customs and security, grab your luggage and you take a hard right small aircraft it’s a fucking go kart. And I’m terrified of heights. I even don’t do well on commercial flights. But getting on this little plane. I’m scared shitless but it’s some of the most beautiful views of Jamaica I’ve ever seen. And it’s no wonder for people it’s not the cheapest way but it is the fastest way because it’s a 20 minute ride. You can fit as many as six in there big Cessna, depending on how much luggage you have. Yeah, ship luggage.


Mickey Gordon  10:46

And so we flew last time we flew Tim air


Mallory Gordon  10:49

two years ago.


Mickey Gordon  10:52

So I was in the front seat with the pilot. And so he hands me the controls. And the ladies are in the back flip and shit because I was like, hey, it’s Grand Theft Auto Jamaica


Mallory Gordon  11:02

pretty much and the way Mickey plays Grand Theft Auto is he can’t land to save his fucking life. Literally. It’s always a crash landing. Somebody has controls. I’m in the backseat going. Terrible, terrible fucking plan.


Mickey Gordon  11:15

I was having a ball. So naturally the pilots like what do you want me to do? And they’re like, take the controls back. And I’m like, I think he needs to see some titties if we’re gonna if we’re gonna, you know, give the controls back. So


Mallory Gordon  11:24

I was like, I will show you my anus. If you just take the fucking controls back right now.


Mickey Gordon  11:29

I was having a great time. I was gonna fly to Kingston. Yeah, yeah, it was it was really awesome. So you do have some options when you come in there. And you know, don’t forget if you’re a travel agent, it doesn’t matter what traveling you use. Doesn’t matter who you go with. They’re gonna offer you Moby. Yes. He’s coming in on a Saturday,


Mallory Gordon  11:47

Friday, Saturday, Sunday


Mickey Gordon  11:48

ticket taking even on a Sunday or Saturday. tacky. Yep.


Mallory Gordon  11:52

And those are really high traffic days for that airport. And you can literally be in that line for hours. Yes. And we’ve done it before.


Mickey Gordon  12:00

Right and nothing worse than landing and going fucking a here I’m in Jamaica, let’s party and waiting a two and a half hour Atlantic customs. Yes,


Mallory Gordon  12:07

in early midweek, it’s a 5050. We always use it and in the event that we need it. There are some there are some times we’ve come in and we just walk right through with the rest of the people.


Mickey Gordon  12:18

Bring it in, you know, 200 casual swinger koozies. And the customs agent says, you’re going to sell these No, I’m not. I’m gonna give them away. No, no, you’re gonna sell them. You’re gonna give us $150 tariff on these? Yes, that’s it. So Moby actually is a little better for that, too. They tend to be a little nicer if you have Yes, correct. And you said we’re not breaking any laws. We’re giving the shit away. But you know, that doesn’t mean they believe us.


Mallory Gordon  12:42

That’s true. That’s true.


Mickey Gordon  12:44

So yeah, let’s talk about Howard for a minute. The ultimate imposter.


Mallory Gordon  12:48

I love Howard so much. And when this airs, it’s his birthday week. Yes.


Mickey Gordon  12:51

This is for his birthday. We save this for his birthday. He’s been asking those guys. Are you ever going to release my interview? Yeah, we are. Howard. We love you to death man. And he has been going. It was 38 years. We recorded this interview since 39 years now. He’s at Hito. Right now. He’s been there for like four weeks. He goes six to eight weeks a year. He’s gonna talk about some blast from the past what it used to be like some of the old GM some of the old entertainment staff. If you are a long time hido veteran of any length. He’s probably going to talk about somebody you know and love and remember he did it to me. Yeah. Talked about Robert and his jerk chicken sauce. Yes, that I still have the recipe. You found it the other


Mallory Gordon  13:32

day when we moved from Virginia to Florida, it was still pin to your old office wall. And it’s in my recipe,


Mickey Gordon  13:38

one of my most prized possessions, or chicken recipes return?


Mallory Gordon  13:42

Yes. But I had so much fun having conversations with him. And I hope our listeners feel like they’re there. You know, spending that time with us and with him. We could have talked for hours, hours and hours. I love his stories. I love his feedback.


Mickey Gordon  13:57

Well, yeah, we finished up with the interview in like half an hour, right? And we came back because Howard came and found us again because I just remembered more stuff.


Mallory Gordon  14:05

I get messages all the time that he’s like, I’m ready for another one. I have more stories for you.


Mickey Gordon  14:10

And it’s like, okay, we’ll figure this out. We’ll make this a longer episode. It’s it is what it is. I mean, our last episode is hugely long. We didn’t mean it to be. I just used to Trump word huge by you know, it’s I don’t press the button. But you know, it’s a testament to the this this resort is so impactful. It is and people cared this much in go that long that Howard had all those stories to tell and came back to us and said I want to do this again. So Happy Birthday our you’re listening to this episode right now we’re thinking of you today. We’re gonna be thinking of you next week. We’re gonna be thinking of you while we’re at Hito. We’re glad to be your friend. And we think that what you do for the folks Sandy Hook, what you do for the


Mallory Gordon  14:53

party and yeah, and he has the Super Bowl party at hedonism every year. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  14:57

yeah, this guy is an icon and we call The ultimate ambassador for hedonism to and we’re not fucking around, this guy is everything and he talks about some of the other things we’re gonna do. This is a three part series, this three part series is it’s everything and we this whole thing is called a living history of hedonism too. But this piece is about a guest, the ultimate ambassador. The next piece, we call the winds of change the winds of change is when everything changed at Hito. Everything changed Hito what, a few just a few years ago, when SuperClubs basically lost control the resort we’re going to talk about that in the next episode with the guy that is widely credited and credited by heat or by Howard Howard. Thank you. In this episode with saving hedonism to his name is john gross. And then the last piece is the hedonist in chief. Yes, and we’re interviewing him this week while we are at Hito. So this is going to come out a little bit later is going to be the next episode in the series, and the finale for a living history of hedonism, too. And that is one Mr. Harry Lang. So we’re coming.


Mallory Gordon  16:03

I get goosebumps. It’s also his birthday week.


Mickey Gordon  16:06

It’s his birthday, too, but we’re coming for him. Yeah. already told him. We want to interview him while we’re on site. And he said, Yeah, I almost caught him while he was in Tokyo, but I’m glad we didn’t because I get to see him while we talk to him.


Mallory Gordon  16:14

Yeah, those are those are two people. I could literally sit down and talk with all day and all night.


Mickey Gordon  16:19

He likes to dance with us.


Mallory Gordon  16:20

I love dancing with him too.


Mickey Gordon  16:23

He’s a ballroom dancer. He’s classically


Mallory Gordon  16:25

he really is like it’s intimidating. I like to dance. I’m I’m not a savant. Like I. I’m nervous at best.


Mickey Gordon  16:32

Yeah, well, it’s a good time. But hey, why don’t you tell everybody where they can find us? And let’s let these folks hear from our friend. All right, Aaron Steen.


Mallory Gordon  16:39

Alright guys, well, we’re we’re enjoying the Jamaican sun. Please hit us up. Send us your feedback podcast at casual swinger calm. You can find us at casual swinger calm. And we are casual swinger everywhere that is Cassidy, SLS, STC, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. And don’t forget to keep checking Twitter this week. So you can play what’s under my hat with us.


Mickey Gordon  17:05

That’ll do it guys. Welcome. Howard Heron Steen. This is a living history. He needs him to the ultimate ambassador, you’ve been listening to casual swinger. So we’re here at hedonism to wear schedule swinger. I’m Mickey. I’m Mallory, and we are here with Howard Howard. We’re not going to use your last name. But Howard, you are a longtime resident of hedonism two very, very


Howard Harenstein  17:37

long time. Yeah. I started coming in 1980 when it was no girl beach village. Wow. Negril beach village.


Mickey Gordon  17:43

So how long was it in the grove beach village before they changed it?


Howard Harenstein  17:46

I think it started in 1975. And it changed over in 1981. Wow. But in 1980 when I first came, I swore I would never come back. Really? Why is that the food was horrendous. To go to the beach, you had to walk way down past where the point is. You had to drag one of these heavy metal chairs with you. And to get a drink. You still have to walk over to the prude bar.


Mickey Gordon  18:10

Wow. Which is a long way. So this resort is what 90 acres or 190 acres. That’s a heck of a walk. It’s


Howard Harenstein  18:17

prime property. Yeah, it really is quite village wasn’t there at the time. That was our little coves. And so you drove and stuff over there. You sat in the code for the day and hope you didn’t have to pee or need a drink. So we used to go get drinks we used to get drunk at the bar and walk back.


Mallory Gordon  18:35

Fantastic. So I know how we stumble upon especially in this day and age with the internet. So how did you find out


Howard Harenstein  18:41

just going through travel brochures had a lot of friends that were travel agents, okay, pulled out a brochure brochures and I saw this crazy place, you know, that had nude sunbathing, and at the time, I think with airfare was about 15 $100 a couple.


Mickey Gordon  18:57

So it was dirt cheap.


Howard Harenstein  19:00

This was 1980 we came back in 1981. But we went to couples in otro Rios and it was so boring. The next day we left came back here then we found that it was now hedonism to wow so the food was better. They cut down on the beach, so you could didn’t have to walk so far to the beach. And they put a little hut with some booze in there. So you didn’t have to walk as far.


Mickey Gordon  19:27

That’s really


Howard Harenstein  19:29

yeah, there was no pool there. There was no The only thing there was woods. And then eventually they built the hot tub. And after that they started building more and more structures for bars. This was del rice first bar here. All right. Let me put an area here on the end was a grill. So Robert was the first grill master there and this Robert to Robert was the guy that just posted a picture of him. Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  20:00

I’m really sorry. So he would tell me when we first started talking about coming here. One of the first things he mentioned was Robert’s recipe for jerk chicken sauce. Yeah, jerk sauce he would make which


Mickey Gordon  20:09

is amazing. It’s better than it is today. I mean a little


Howard Harenstein  20:12

different than when we said buy lobster. He used to cook it over there. But then they found out so many people have shellfish allergies. Same grow.


Mickey Gordon  20:22

So when you know a lot of people we talk about eating we talk about people being naked. We talked about swinging and lifestyle. Obviously, our podcast is a lifestyle oriented podcast. But hedonism isn’t about that. No, no, it’s it’s about the freedom to be yourself. It’s about the people you meet. But what’s it about for you? And


Howard Harenstein  20:38

what brought it well, Rachel, in the old days, it was like being an avoider. You know, you came here. This swinging wasn’t quite as obvious as it is today. You know, the public display of affection wasn’t as crazy as it is now. I mean, a guy walked down the beach with a heart on and everybody looked at him and it was big, different. Most of the stuff was in the rooms. And I guess when it was new girl beach village, they used to post the different types of sex in different rooms up near the dining room. So the whole thing changed. And they brought in SAM James to calm things down a little bit use. He was the second manager here. Tony Ferraro, who’s an owner was the first manager. And Sam was brought in to tone things down a little bit. And he did the things were always behind closed doors every now and then he walked by a room and had the door open and come on in. Yeah. That’s a good rule. Yeah. No, I’m not into the lifestyles of my friends here. And, you know, occasionally, if somebody jumps on me and Peter, I don’t complain.


Mallory Gordon  21:43

So your lifestyle friendly, and just


Howard Harenstein  21:47

all my friends, you know, like Sherry, and Derek, you know, they’re my buddies.


Mallory Gordon  21:52

People here,


Howard Harenstein  21:53

I’ve known. Having trouble remembering. I’ve known a lot of these people for a lot of years. And they they’ve changed and I got older and I didn’t change. You know, the truth is that no matter how strict you are, when you get here, after a few trips, you start to rain a little bit more, and a little bit more and a little bit more. And I just did a survey. I don’t know if you saw the survey on Joe’s site, but it came out that 40% of the people that come here were swingers. Wow, no, I don’t know if they were full swap swingers or just you know, playful. But I did a site on my own. And it came out to about 24%. And I think 24% is a lot more accurate.


Mallory Gordon  22:37

I think I have to agree. If you had to take like a running poll of everyone who’s on this beach today, that’s probably pretty close.


Howard Harenstein  22:42

Yeah, you’ll find a lot of people here. They’re into this touchy feely kissy, you know, stuff. Full swap goes. Yeah. You got to really trust your companion to do stuff like


Mickey Gordon  22:55

that. Well, that’s a lot closer to the national average, which is around 20%. Yeah, so that’s, that’s a lot closer to them, and probably a lot closer to reality. So when we talk about Ark Ark podcast is called casual swinger. And it means that you’re not you know, we know this isn’t our life. We have children and friends and things that we do. And we come here, I, I’m going to take a guess for the same reason you do for the friends that we come here for the experiences and a lot


Howard Harenstein  23:22

of your group of friends of mine. Yeah, it’s kind of cool. Rachel, I’ve known for years. I love Rachel and Sherry and I got friendly online. Yeah, you know, I thought she was beautiful. So I friended her, she friended me. And we became very close on the internet, such a sweetheart and when we finally met, it was it was great. And when I got hurt here, she checked on me every single day, make sure I was okay. And so finally I met Derek. And he said to me, Well, the guys that Dr. Sherry, you’re the only one I trust. I don’t know if that was a compliment or a blow. But you make a lot of friends that way because you keep in touch. That’s why people come back to the same week every year because they know they’re gonna you know, I’ve seen you here for years and I never really got to know you. But when he did that painting and portrait thing, man, I was in love with this time I’m right there.


Mickey Gordon  24:22

You got it, man. You got it. Great. Actually, we’re, we’re gonna do some really fun stuff. I hope you do get to participate. Yes,


Howard Harenstein  24:28

because the the current stuff to the hotel was changed a lot because of a lot of the stuff that hotel I always felt like I was supposed to do. The groups have come in and done it. And obviously john was the first one to change the whole concept of the place. He’d come in and he he gives the walkthrough to its people. They’d have the cocktail party and stuff. But what’s happened is other groups have come in the dirty Purves, Rachel’s rhaskos topless travel. There’s nobody find her no offense taken, but there’s nobody find her than marketing. Carl, like they should come to work for the hotel here. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  25:07

they’re friends of ours. We like yeah, they’re there. You know, they come to Orlando a lot. Yeah, I know they do. So we get to see them regularly. Yeah. And and you know, one of my favorite things about mark and Carly is that they’re friendly to everybody. And not just because it’s their business because they’re actually nice people, right? Yes. Right.


Howard Harenstein  25:23

Because you drop people into you. Certainly if you develop your own little group. And Mark is crazier and convenient. Carly’s smoking. It doesn’t hurt. But these are the things I always felt the hotel should be doing. And they tried with their entertainment staff. But as time progressed, the entertainment staff went from being big entertainment to more entertaining up on the stage. I mean, these people are really nice, and they’re really talented. But, you know, compared to what they used to do, it’s a lot different. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  25:55

I see that dynamic change over


Howard Harenstein  25:56

the last 10 years. Big personalities here. They have this guy, buddy, man. I don’t know how far back you go. But if you look on my site today, there’s a picture of some of the original people like body man and Harold Cornell was unbelievable. One of the nicest people who were want to meet. Cheryl was in charge of all the entertainment. And it was just a different concept. They weren’t as talented. But they were more people oriented. And you know, these kids are good, but I think it’s good because it’s part of their job. Right? They’re


Mickey Gordon  26:28

really entertainers and they’re yet dancers and singers and athletes.


Howard Harenstein  26:32

Winston Churchill phenomenal job


Mallory Gordon  26:33

he really famous. And he’s a very talented man.


Mickey Gordon  26:37

Yeah, he listens amazing. things beyond reproach.


Howard Harenstein  26:41

I’d say as you see those fancy dresses they were last night. Oh, yeah, they were every turn us off. I’ll tell you how much each one costs? Absolutely. Here, we wouldn’t be real happy. Well, so


Mickey Gordon  26:54

tell me something. If you can’t, if you can think of it. Because I mean, if some of this has probably come out in the course of our conversation, if you could tell me two things, that over your years, because you’ve been coming since 1982? I mean, what are we talking about 28 years now? Yeah, 3038 years, Jesus, my math is bad. I’ve had a few times started when I was 10. So, but two things that have stayed the same, and two things that are the most different. So two things that you know, just are still Hito have always been here, we’re here to the core. And maybe two things that are just


Howard Harenstein  27:28

different. Well, the thing that stayed the same, it’s a fact when you get off the bus, it’s a different type of freedom. You know, anything you wanted to do in the past? It’s an adult playground. Yeah, that’s what it amounts to. You can play games you can meet people have sex with a mate, it’s a play land. You know, the guy that sits at home and wants to have a threesome with his wife, you know, well, you can come here, it could happen, you know, less at home, because you have kids, you have jobs and stuff. That’s the thing that stayed the same, the thing that’s different. I don’t know. I don’t think many things have changed. I think it’s just the amount of sex became more apparent and more intensity than it ever was.


Mickey Gordon  28:09

So did we change as people as a culture? Or did the resort change?


Howard Harenstein  28:12

I think the resort changed our philosophy now because the new owner is this is his philosophy. Yeah. You know, he loves it. He wants everybody to have a good time. And he wants to have a good time.


Mallory Gordon  28:23

Really? If I had one word to describe him, it would be comparison. Yeah. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  28:27

That’s a beautiful word to describe Gary. Yeah. So we were actually fortunate enough. Last time we were here. We didn’t get the interviewer here. So we’re gonna do it remotely. But Chrissy until he was here. And we love her to pieces.


Mallory Gordon  28:38

We felt so honored to know Chris for 37 years. Yeah, well, reading her book is what actually made me feel comfortable and gave me the inspiration to kind of go, we’re on the third. We’re in the third. Yeah. Yeah, that’s


Howard Harenstein  28:55

right. She’s haunting me from I was in the pool one day, and I saw this girl that I just love. Yeah, I love so this other woman came in and started having oral sex or they’re on the side of the pool. So when after the woman asked her, she kissed me. She said, Yes. And she later kissed me. And I said, Man, I just hate that woman by proxy. Chris put it in the book.


Mickey Gordon  29:19

Second generation right there.


Howard Harenstein  29:22

I always had a fantasy every time I came here. Yeah, yeah. I always had one fantasy that I just registered on the whole week pursuit. Yeah. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  29:30

How to work out. Well, I never did anything. is I mean, in your, in your mind, your bucket list items for coming to Hito because when you’ve been coming, as long as you’ve been coming here, there’s probably things you’ve always wanted to do. And I’ve met people I met a woman here. One of my favorite stories is a Scottish woman that was here that always wanted to sing. And


Mallory Gordon  29:53

oh, and that played the accordion. Yeah, remember


Mickey Gordon  29:55

her feet and never sang in front of people in her life. And she did and she had a crowd of 100 50 people around her she was amazing.


Mallory Gordon  30:02

Like I think about her to this day and I get goose bumps she just let loose and finally did it and then had the time


Howard Harenstein  30:08

to to sing down here. Yeah, so they let me sing and I cleaned out for piano bar. Things just before it’s time to close, it’s time to go out and do watersports, but I noticed I was too lazy to do it. Actually, I actually started playing tennis coming here. Right. And that’s something I wanted to do. I don’t know, you know, I don’t know, enjoy sit in the hot sun all the time. But I enjoy talking to people. I like moving around and talking and people wondering where I was on. Yeah. What the hell did he get into? I have no expectations. When I come here. I think that’s one of the worst things you can do. Come here with expectations.


Mickey Gordon  30:49

That’s the only way you’re guaranteed to be disappointed eventually.


Howard Harenstein  30:51

Right? Of course, at first I had a lot of expectations or do this do that. Crazy sex life? Well, after being disappointed for 10 years, I just read


Mickey Gordon  31:03

my grandmother used to say expect nothing appreciate everything you. Do you have any regrets after 38 years that he


Howard Harenstein  31:10

got into love traveling? The only regret I have. I did so when my kids were growing up. But actually next year, I’m going to start traveling. I’m retired now. I’ve been retired for about five months. And


Mallory Gordon  31:22



Howard Harenstein  31:24

After 40 years of working. So I decided I was going to going to Israel in April and we’re gonna do a little more traveling. That’s the only thing I regret. But I don’t regret coming here. And it’s been fun. Yeah, it just said, as you come more and more and you get older and older, you’re just not able to participate in things quite as much. And that’s a disappointment. But I’m still here. So here


Mallory Gordon  31:50

absolutely love it.


Mickey Gordon  31:51

So there’s one other noteworthy thing right i want i think there’s a lot of noteworthy things about you. But you don’t just come here often you don’t just come here for a long time when you when you come you stay a long time.


Howard Harenstein  32:03

Yeah. Well, I use it as Snowbird heroes sort of going to Florida, I come here. If you sit down to really figure it out, you’re probably paying a little bit more coming here then you would because you got to eat out all the time in Florida. Yeah, you got to bring food in. And here. Everything is good. I do a lot of stuff for the hotel, too. You know, I run a reunion in New Jersey for them. Yeah. And it’s awesome. I also run the Super Bowl party for them. So I do a lot of stuff here. So it’s not like I’m just here to socialize, you know, I enjoy doing stuff for Harry. And that’s fantastic. There is a pretty cool guy.


Mickey Gordon  32:41

How long do you stay when you come down?


Howard Harenstein  32:42

We’re here for a month this time, usually three to four weeks. Actually, we’re going to try to do something in the month of January. I’m always here February. It’s my birthday. So we’re going to try to actually come down here in January.


Mallory Gordon  32:55

We’ll probably see you in February.


Howard Harenstein  32:57

That’s crazy. My birthday is the 26th and Harry’s the 25th. And we celebrate together. That’s awesome.


Mallory Gordon  33:04

We’ll be here.


Mickey Gordon  33:05

Yeah, we will be here for your birthday this year. Do you book through when you book direct? Book direct?


Howard Harenstein  33:10

Yeah, because I’ve done it for so long. They still take care of me. That’s fantastic. coming in on a Wednesday or Thursday or Friday.


Mickey Gordon  33:18

Does that mean you get to be friends with everybody? Because you don’t book with one particular tour operator?


Howard Harenstein  33:22

Yeah, yeah. And one of the things with even my reunion, Kevin world when we bring our travel agent I can’t take any money from them. I can’t associate with the reunion fair enough. So it’s all supported by the hotel. The first year I brought the reunion back I had go classy work with me and they donated money to me. And then after that the hotel took it over. reunion was pretty expensive because we did a pretty good weekend. So maybe someday you’ll come


Mickey Gordon  33:51

that would be super cool. We I mean, well. Where do you live? We live in Orlando. Oh, sweet, but we travel for a living so we do get around a fair bit even to Jersey.


Howard Harenstein  34:02

It’s a nice beach though. It’s a nude beach. Strip. The walk from the parking lot to the beach is pretty long. Probably don’t want to do that naked. No, you can’t do it for federal Park. ended up in jail naked.





Howard Harenstein  34:16

that’s we always have a lot of people. We have a big party too. You know, I’m thinking of more things that I are different here. But there’s really no different. The differences that have upgraded the place. They’ve made it a lot nicer. When I first came here, you’d walk into a room it was all mildew. You had a chest of draws, a divider, none of bed and then a window. And that was it. I mean, the bathroom was terrible. And on the top drawer, the chest of drawers was a Gideon Bible and the candle. Never had electricity for a full 24 hours


Mickey Gordon  34:50

and you needed the Bible to put under the girl’s butt That’s too cool.


Howard Harenstein  35:02

But then they upgraded it. I’m trying to remember who the GM was. But Sam James was the first manager under hedonism to, then Gary Williams. I don’t know if you knew Gary Williams, he came. And then it was Kevin Levy, then Richard Berg and Kevin levy. You know, Kevin was sent over to OCR reo for you know, three. And that was kind of mistake because they took they took the same concept and divided in half, and it ended up this place was pretty empty railing. Oh, yeah. For years. It was very, very empty, you know, maybe that have 80% of the max.


Mickey Gordon  35:40

Why do you think that Hito two survived and Hito? Three didn’t?


Howard Harenstein  35:46

I don’t know. Familiarity?


Mickey Gordon  35:48

That’s a good question. There


Howard Harenstein  35:50

was a younger crowd at Hito three, which is much smaller resort, much lower resort and, and I really don’t know you know, I’ve ever asked Kevin about it.


Mickey Gordon  36:00

I’ve heard a lot of things that so I was just interested in that conjecture. What did you hear that the beach was not existing? There was nobody there was no peak. Yeah, definitely know that the water was rougher. It’s a different side of the island.


Howard Harenstein  36:11

It was colder winter.


Mickey Gordon  36:13

But there was more to do directly around the resort because it was closer to things being How


Howard Harenstein  36:17

many times have you left this resort to do things?


Mickey Gordon  36:20

Twice? twice in 10 years? And every time we do we regret it we go Why the hell did we leave? The party was back there. Yeah, you know, and, and that’s definitely the case.


Howard Harenstein  36:28

He wants for lunch for dinner.


Mallory Gordon  36:31

We do a dinner run.


Howard Harenstein  36:32

Yeah. That’s all I do. Because every everything is right here. There’s nothing better. Then you go out and they treat you to a different fee structure. Yes. You know, very, very much more expensive.


Mickey Gordon  36:47

Yeah, it really is.


Howard Harenstein  36:48

It is generally not worth it. I mean, you know, who needs to go on a hill and get a piece of lobster.


Mickey Gordon  36:56

And fireman’s lobster arguably better than anything you can get out there? Very good. I would I would argue that way. So fireman’s?


Howard Harenstein  37:02

Generally speaking, I haven’t been off that much. No, you know, I’ve been here with my kids once my kids actually stayed here. They stayed in the manager’s cottage. That’s awesome. Yeah, cuz I was really good for Sam James. And so they stayed here. His kids were the same age as money. So we used to stay there. And I’d stay in the hotel. Kids will stay there. I’m trying to think Gary Williams probably did more for the hotel with anybody else. Yeah, he really got this place upgraded.


Mickey Gordon  37:34

He said, Do you think the upgrades are what helped it grow? Or me because he I mean, obviously, when he two three was in business, you said that it was down. He has always enjoyed the highest revenue business. There was no upgrades


Howard Harenstein  37:45

here. There was nothing because everybody’s what the hell SuperClubs ran into the ground in the early 2000s. When I was coming, it was terrible. This was our cash cow. Yeah, this is where they made over money to do the other resorts. This place was always random bucks. Yeah. And they use the money here. They didn’t upgrade this place. And I remember one anniversary here. I think it was the 10th anniversary was the poorest thing everyone to see was awful. Gary Williams had just left being a general manager. And he left because he was embarrassed by what they were doing for the anniversary. Because Two weeks later, they had travel agents coming in at a big party, and they save all the money for the travel agents. So it’s kind of silly that


Mickey Gordon  38:30

did. Yeah, that doesn’t make sense. So mismanagement nearly


Howard Harenstein  38:33

sank the resort. Yeah, they didn’t care. I mean, they wanted out. And they kept sewing stuff until they got their money back.


Mickey Gordon  38:38

JOHN and Harry and company came in and Yeah,


Howard Harenstein  38:42

actually, john is responsible for setting the whole thing up. Yeah. And Harry finally went with it now. Harry’s 100% owner here, the whole thing. So he’s, he’s tries to participate. But he gets sidetracked


Mickey Gordon  38:59

by beautiful women and


Howard Harenstein  39:01

Kevin’s the general manager, Donna’s hotel manager was a norm I love Donna. Donna grant is amazing. And Harry sister law, Diane does all the renovations and stuff. And she kind of keeps your eye on everything. Keeps your eye on Harry to


Mickey Gordon  39:17

my needed. There’s been a few 5am walk. You know, we see him walking back to his room.


Howard Harenstein  39:22

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it’s not unusual. His daughter was here two weeks ago. Wow. And it was quite a character which she’s in. She’s a residency and her mergency care medicine. Very bright. I mean, the whole family is just very, very bright.


Mickey Gordon  39:37

So, you know, for anybody that is hanging in here with us. This is a living history of hedonism to with our friend Howard. And what I encourage I guess any of you to do is to check this out because it has changed so much but if you could tell any because a lot of our listeners actually go to desire like


Howard Harenstein  39:53

oh, I can tell them about it right now. Number one The food here probably isn’t as gourmet is desire. But it’s adequate on a day to day basis is nothing bad here and don’t eat what you already can eat in the restaurant new one. It’s phenomenal. Number two, there’s more activity here for what I understand desire kind of closes up at night. And here, the activity doesn’t start till dinnertime, right? It’s all day, but it really gets wild at night. It’s just the whole atmosphere here is a lot different. It’s soon as upgraded. But it’s fun. It’s fun, and you can have fun 24 hours a day. I have never been to desire. But I’ve had a lot of feedback from my friends and my friends that went to desire are coming back here. Those that wanted the fine food and wanted an upgrade and attitude and stuff. They still got a desire, but not many. Wow. You know, it’s just not. It’s not hedonism. It’s all they tried. But it’s not working.


Mallory Gordon  40:52

There’s no place like Oh, no.


Howard Harenstein  40:55

face, you can do what you want on the beach here or nobody will even turn ahead. But for one of us their desire during the day, they’re pretty regimented, you only do so much. Right, you know, and it has to be off to the side.


Mickey Gordon  41:09

There’s nothing off to the side here at Ito will, Howard, thank you very much for taking the time to sit around a little bit today and tell us about some of your experiences there. I mean,


Howard Harenstein  41:18

there’s I think maybe I’ll have more.


Mickey Gordon  41:20

I hope so too. But I’m Mickey Mallory, and this is casual swinger. And we’re running the beach at hedonism two with our friend Howard. Thanks for joining us. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to casual swinger. I’m Mickey. I’m Mallory, and we have Howard here with us where we’re continuing our conversation of the living history of hedonism, too. So we thought we would sit back down with Howard and talk a little bit more about some of the things that he’s learned over the course of his 38 years of trips to hedonism, too. And here are a few more stories from him. We’re gonna let Mallory take the lead because I lost my voice this week. So I sound a little bit like Sandra Bernhard or a frog or God knows what. So we’re gonna let these guys chat a little bit and tell you a little bit more about some of the things that Howard has learned along the way.


Mallory Gordon  42:11

That’s right. So you came to us and said you thought of a few more things you wanted to discuss about the history of hedonism here?


Howard Harenstein  42:17

Yeah, actually, when I saw the party that they had last Wednesday, I started thinking about some of the parties in the past. And I’ve been through a lot of anniversaries here. And the 10th anniversary here was kind of wild that reminded me of the party the other night, where we had Byron Lee’s group here, big Mardi Gras party, we had people skydiving and all kinds of good things happening. Since that time, things kind of quieted down. And until last Wednesday, things went crazy again.


Mickey Gordon  42:50

So tell us from your perspective, what happened here last Wednesday, we’re going to talk about it to our listeners, obviously was


Howard Harenstein  42:55

a marketing idea on the part of hedonism. And what they did is they offered a one day excursion to hedonism from the Blitz cruise. And he did some setup and put up decorations hired extra help brought in extra food, obviously brought in extra, extra booze, because as you know, you have to pay for booze at a dualism. It’s all inclusive, so you don’t pay for it. That’s true. The party was tremendous was probably $100,000 party if I would say it’s $5 you know if it was a cent was a big time party.


Mallory Gordon  43:32

Oh is enormous. All over the property. It was amazing.


Howard Harenstein  43:36

They brought in 600 people. And on the way here they had a little accident slowed things down. Oh, yeah, they had a little motorcycle accident, but I won’t go into it. It’s kind of gory. But oh, that’s terrible. But they got here, things started off great, started raining a little bit. Things and rained again. But by the end of the day, it was fabulous. The entertainment was great. food was great. It was fun. And the best part of it was trying to get everybody back into the bus to go back to the cruise. But 99% of were drunk.


Mallory Gordon  44:16

And I’m sure they didn’t want to get back on the boat. But it looks like everyone’s having such a good time and


Howard Harenstein  44:19

a ball here was really, really a great idea. And in fact, I spoke to Harry, you know, he’s on the cruise now. And he said his feedback from the cruise was phenomenal, which is good because it’ll bring more people back into Eden ism. Because, as we mentioned before, it’s really not a swingers paradise. It’s swinger friendly. But anybody’s welcome here. Whether you renewed is whether you don’t like being nude whether you don’t like being a swinger. It’s open to everybody. And it’s a lot of fun. Because people will find out whether you’re noticed or swagger, they’re good people and they’re good to hang around with.


Mallory Gordon  44:58

I feel like it’s the right your own adventure story. Ray,


Howard Harenstein  45:00

it’s whatever you want it to be. Right? Exactly, exactly. You can just do nothing for 10 days or so. Or you can have a ball.


Mickey Gordon  45:09

Oh, so one of my favorite things about your perspectives on this resort is that, you know, you’re not paid to be an ambassador for hedonism, you’re a customer, you pay to come here. Yet, it’s obvious to me that you’re passionate about what this place means to you. And that its longevity matters to you.


Howard Harenstein  45:25

Yeah, because I, you know, I had a pretty heavy duty job when I was working. And I needed a place where I can come and just unwind. And this was always the place. And when you get here, it’s like your home. And you relax immediately. It’s not like going on a cruise and having to get used to stuff or going to a new area where you have to get used to staying in a different area for a few days. It. You’re right at home right away. And obviously after all these years, I have an awful lot of friends here. Yeah, that’s true. Pretty much everyone knows who you are. Yeah. No. That’s fantastic. So for my friend tells me that I have no friends left here.


Mickey Gordon  46:13

So looking at what happened this week, versus with some of the things that happened in the past. You mentioned 10th anniversary, which is 27 years ago, right? Because we’re 37th anniversary hedonist. What do you think has changed the most between party that was a big deal than today to today?


Howard Harenstein  46:29

Well, the philosophy of hedonism was always the same, but the money put into the hotel was a lot different. Now as time progressed, they use hedonism as account cash cow for them. They built up on their hotels as a result of that they had Hito. Three, they had brocco. They had places to runaway Bay, it just made a big difference. And they were putting all the bucks that the heat on the place got pretty rundown. And that


Mallory Gordon  46:55

was the SuperClubs regime. Yeah,


Howard Harenstein  46:57

yeah, it was super clubs, and they use it just to pay for everything else. And you can see the food one bad again, after a while. I’ve been here when they had no table clocks, they’ve had no napkins, paper napkins. Things have changed a lot. And Mary took over. Harry was a guest here. And he knew what this place was all about. They knew what it needed. And he was willing to put up the bucks. And he’s, you know, he’s pretty happy. He’s probably his own best customer. He loves a place


Mallory Gordon  47:30

he really truly does. I was impressed that he went on the bliss cruise with everybody.


Mickey Gordon  47:34

Yeah, yeah. You know, one of my favorite things about Harry is that he’s so approachable. Yes. And there’s a lot of CEOs of a resort. They don’t. They don’t commiserate with their people. They don’t sit and speak with them and talk to them. They don’t take their feedback earnestly, like, like Harry does.


Howard Harenstein  47:50

Harry listens. Harry’s involvement with the hotel isn’t as in depth as everybody thinks it is. You know, he’s he listens. He shares his ideas. But he has family members that work here. And Kevin Levy, obviously is the GM, right, who basically runs things. But Harry does listen. Does he always follow through that? I don’t know. We can’t do everything right now. Not every idea is a good idea. He wants his place to be wild. Yeah, this is what he likes about it. He likes the excitement he likes the wildness he’s obviously the people person.


Mickey Gordon  48:27

Well, did you catch our party yesterday speaking a


Howard Harenstein  48:30

while actually, I didn’t because I’ve had trouble for the last couple days.


Mallory Gordon  48:33

All I’m really sorry. You missed. It was a good. We played a game called Guitar Hero. And it’s basically a spin on air guitar. Except everyone was using their cocks as their air guitar. So it was hilarious. I won’t miss the next one.


Mickey Gordon  48:50

Yeah, they’re dicks to sweet child of mine and walk this way.


Mallory Gordon  48:56

And they went added 110%. We also had him dressed up in feather boas, Harry would have one. Oh,


Howard Harenstein  49:01

yeah, it was it was actually coming back today, as he will be back tonight. He said in a couple days, he never stays very long. But his brother loves their guitar.


Mickey Gordon  49:14

You know, it’s it’s it’s tremendous. And one of our favorite things to do much like you is to see that the folks around us having a good time. You know, we’re customers of hedonism. We don’t get paid to come here. This is something that we do because we love it much like you do. And it’s one of the reasons it’s so important for us to sit down with somebody that isn’t paid to be an ambassador. They do it out of passion. Passion is a big part of what we do and probably why we do the show in the first place.


Howard Harenstein  49:37

This is probably one of the reasons why some of these groups started to I remember back when the fluffer notice first started, john was just overwhelmed by the whole thought of open sec to do the work. I think it still is I was part of his original 12 people that came here really and yeah, as time progressed, he got bigger and bigger and bigger in China had some great ideas. But now obviously he has a lot of competition. Things have changed. They had some major travel operators that come here now like Thomas tours here. topless travel Castaway. Adriana, go classy. But then the, the fact that Rachel raelynn got into a Rachel’s rascals. I love Rachel, as you know, she’s one of my favorite people. You Nikki, you’re my favorite now. Rachel is probably one of the friendliest people I’ve ever met in my life. And she’s just really sincere. And she’s real. And it’s why they’re friends of ours. Yeah, well, you can see with her group, because yesterday, two catamarans went out the other day. One of them was full rascals at three of us on that. So you can see how much love she really


Mallory Gordon  50:50

was. And that was great energy, the best catamaran cruise we’ve ever been on. I missed that one, too.


Mickey Gordon  50:55

We did some ignorant shit on that boat too. because keep in mind, we’re the hosts for that group. Yeah, we do some really? Did you get involved with OSI? You know, it kind of goes back to we were friends with Jim and Rachel and we had so much fun just hanging out. And, you know, Jim asked me, you know, how, What’s with you? Like, why are you Why are you so outgoing and gregarious? And obviously, the things you say, I never know what’s gonna come out of your mouth next. And I said, this is kind of what I do. You know, I entertain and educate. That’s my job in the real world guys. And, and I said, You know, I could probably help you grow your group, if you you know, let me emcee a pool party for you. And he said, Well, sure, we’ll give it a shot. And the next time we did it, and our group exploded, because it turns out, people want that energy. They want the passion, they want the feeling. And I can’t do any of that stuff. Without that girl right there. That girl right there. She’s my eyes. She’s my ears. She’s my conscience. So she lets me say and do some of the dumbest things that any man has ever said.


Mallory Gordon  51:57

It’s a lot of fun, though, because sometimes they get to be Vanna White. And sometimes I’m an air traffic controller. Yeah.


Howard Harenstein  52:04

It’s a good time you talk about being committed to the hotel. I used to eat over union, New Jersey every year. Yeah, we met a couple that yesterday. And what happened is, after a few years, I realized that it’s not all together, you need more. So what I did is I started running the party on Saturday night 300. And now I guess I’m the honorary head of the whole thing. I’ve been running. We’ve been running the party, Diane and I for about five years now. Five years, four years. Okay, and we came from having 100 people there to a massive crowd. Now, we’ve had up to 600 people on the beach. And the party, we can handle more than 150. But it’s a big time party. That’s fantastic. And then I also run a Super Bowl party here in February.


Mickey Gordon  52:55

So I think we talked about trying to join you after we did our first segment of this interview. We talked about trying to join you guys for a heater reunion in Jersey. Oh, that would be fun. Check it out and spend some time with Yeah,


Howard Harenstein  53:06

we’re we’re together on Facebook. first couple years. Now what happens is, what’s happening now is we get all the groups that come in, they’re all represented. I haven’t gotten Rachel and Jim there yet, but I will, because they just moved this year. We have a lot of groups, the bubbly berries used to participate in big time. But as that group got older and older, the group got thinner and thinner. So we have supported the hotel now, which makes it really nice. Yeah, that’s


Mickey Gordon  53:41

an interesting perspective as well. Do you think as the years have gone on certain groups that age is affected them. And as as the groups change, right? When people get older to the groups, then out because people get older, more deeply, Barretts was like the third, third group here.


Howard Harenstein  54:00

First group was the rageous group than the turtles and the bubbly bears. bubbly bears was well over 150 people. Wow. But now if we get 70 people, it’s a live video. I’ve been coming for 38 years. So you see a lot of people come and they really go. We’ve lost a lot of members as time progresses. But what’s happened is they’re not groups like they used to be their travel groups now. You know, get a group that I take that back to pen pals or group that. They tell them when they’re coming and they make their own reservations. So it’s not like you’ve booked into group most of its travel groups now. Yeah, but when the groups have people like you, it makes it more exciting. Yeah, because some of the groups have nobody that runs things and they’re very, very boring.





Howard Harenstein  54:47

So you know, the best people here are you to mark Mays, and obviously Carly and Mark are lunatics. Yeah, we love those guys.


Mickey Gordon  54:58

I think we said that what they do yeah. segment we love those guys Carly and Mark if you’re listening we fucking love you so but so tell us how do you stay relevant 38 years hedonism is still relevant hedonism is a ubiquitous word. It still shows up in cosmopolitan. It shows up in playboy, it shows up in, in mainstream media. hedonism is is synonymous with excitement and lifestyle, and nudity and sex and swinging and freedom.


Howard Harenstein  55:25

Truthfully, it’s passed me by, it really has, it really has, because the things that were really exciting to me at one time, they’re not so exciting anymore. Really passed me by in years, but I still come because it’s relaxing. I have friends here, and I like to watch people have a good time. But do I participate in everything? Not anymore. You know, I used to do Olympics on the beach, go racing. And now the goats run a lot faster than I told, I always told my end. And if a woman’s willing to have sex with me swimming or have sex with anybody, especially at my age,


Mickey Gordon  56:07

is that the Groucho Marx thing in it, I won’t be a part of any club that would have me as a member number.


Howard Harenstein  56:15

You know, it’s kind of true, because we’ve talked about it. And we just, we’ve seen, it just passes by. But we’ve become very good friends with Harry’s brother and sister in law. So he come and we spend a week with them. We have other friends with the bubbly bears we spend time with. So we do a lot more talking than we do anything else. But it’s socializing. And it’s fun.


Mallory Gordon  56:36

That is that is one of the highlights. Is the socializing, meeting new people and seeing old friends


Howard Harenstein  56:41

doing the reunion and doing the Superbowl. And I have actually two sites on Facebook that I’ve fooled around with. I feel like I’m still connected to the hotel.


Mickey Gordon  56:51

I I’d say you very much are, I’d say you’re closer to the nucleus than maybe you would admit, you know, and I don’t I don’t think being self. You know, self deprecating is a bad thing. I do it for a living. So I think anybody


Howard Harenstein  57:10

problem with this place, the Wi Fi sucks. Yeah, well, anything else is perfect.


Mickey Gordon  57:15

In Defense of my company. I’ll say the Wi Fi is perfect. It’s everything behind it. That’s


Howard Harenstein  57:19

That’s true. But you know, that’s that’s the Jamaican way, though. If you expect things to be done quickly here. Forget it. Quickly. can be two or three days soon come?



Yes. So come. There’s a reason they call it Jamaica time.


Howard Harenstein  57:33

But this is one of the things that they’re trying to change here. And this is why Harry taking over and having an American Way is good. Because now they fix things right away. We had our air conditioner broken. We call this morning, you know, was fixed within 10 minutes. That’s because I screwed up the remote control.


Mickey Gordon  57:49

But damn that technology. Yeah,


Howard Harenstein  57:53

it was good. I haven’t gotten there yet. You know, I’m the type of guy I have a telephone and an eight year old. That’s how you stay relevant with a place you stay with your friends. You do things. This place really is way ahead of me. Now I have a wine bar, a coffee bar. These are things that I’ve never had here. You guys don’t realize that when we first started here, we’d walk into a room and it was like rolling walking into a dungeon. room was mildew was old, it was dark. I told you there was a candle or the Gideon Bible, there was a divider, then he got to the bed. But I will guarantee you that people were in their room, no more than six, eight hours to sleep. They never sat and watch TV. There was none. There was no telephones. There was no nothing. I mean, it was really, really great.


Mickey Gordon  58:40

Do you think that contributed to the culture of the people being the centerpiece of this place was crazy


Howard Harenstein  58:45

even before it became hedonism? I mean, it was crazier. And I think I mentioned to you they hired somebody to quiet down a little bit. You know, in the early days, they used to have a bulletin board that had what kind of sex was going on in each room. Oh, wow. And they used to have Harry bring that back to have a deal where they had lunchtime spin because they’d never had grills on the beach here. So everyone buddy went up top and they had lunchtime spin where they had games that were crazy. They put a girl in the middle of the floor, put whipped cream on invite while the guys come down, lick it off of her. The games were pretty crazy. They had what teacher contests that just crazy contest that everybody had a good time. As I mentioned to you, the coordinators were a lot different than than, you know, they were more oriented toward games and having fun. Not so much orientated to be an entertainers aren’t good, they’re great people. They’re amazing. They’re they’ve been hired for a different reason than they used to be.


Mickey Gordon  59:48

Yeah. And that’s Winston Winston has really changed the profile.


Howard Harenstein  59:52

We’ve no instances. He started he’s been here about 18 years. And I have pictures of him when he just started with Diane and it’s funny looking like a little kid, a little kid. You know,


Mickey Gordon  1:00:04

Denise, what’s Denise doing now?


Howard Harenstein  1:00:06

The Nice work in the new office now she’s getting older and it’s time was kind of for her to move on. You can’t be an EC for all your life because you can’t work 16 hours a day your whole life. Yeah. And that’s what they do. And it’s high intensity. I


Mallory Gordon  1:00:19

mean, they’re, they’re on their feet. They’re dancing. They’re putting on shows. Yeah, in games. I mean,


Howard Harenstein  1:00:24

a lot of people this week, Ricardo moved on. And a couple of weeks ago, his show moved on to the shield and Ricardo were great dancer, fantastic. Ricardo in particular, but they are getting older and you need a career, which then on the other hand, they kept them here but making them manager of attainment. He could have left here and go to New York. Yeah. Yeah. We’ve often talked about this. He’s really entertaining. But he’s a big fish in a little pond. rather live, you know, a little bit the biggest pond because it’s hard to break in in New York. Yes, it is. You know, as we’ve often talked to Winston about moving on and he’s happy here. He likes what he’s doing. He’s very entertaining. And he hires good people. And he’s he’s made it to the shows a great thing.


Mickey Gordon  1:01:13

I he’s utterly tremendous. And you know, we speaking of some of the new hires to us tomorrow, last night, Tamara, Tamara is is brand new and just as fresh faced as she can be. And she’s so sweet. And I’m sure boy, self taught dancer who is just looks like Luigi say lyrical.


Howard Harenstein  1:01:34

Yeah. And they’re also lucky because Winston’s willing to work with these people while we’re singing. He’s made Miguel, tremendous. You didn’t know Miguel when he first started singing. But it was so hot. is really good. No, and he’s just starting to make a now he has a couple records out. And he’s big time. That’s amazing. So we’re gonna sing that song squash next year.


Mickey Gordon  1:02:00

So think about that for a second the opportunities that this resort is creating for local entertainers here in Jamaica, right, because they have a resource like Winston to help cultivate this culture of entertainment, whether it’s dance, whether it’s singing, I mean, these people are amazing. And some of them, I mean, take Ashley Martin, for example. She was an EC. Yeah, back in the day got fired five or six times. Yes, she did. She never left for her tremendous attitude, right. But Ashley Martin, who was up on stage with me, did a great job we will meet so we hosted by sweetheart. We hosted the largest nude party in the history of hedonism. We were the hosts for that party at the pool. Okay, so that was the largest notice the other day. Yeah, on Wednesday, it was the largest nude Pool Party in the history of hedonism. Mallory and I hosted it. And I thought that was so cool to be able to do that. But and then Ashley jumped up and hosted it with us. And she emceed it with me. I’m sitting here looking at actually going, this is happening to me right now. This girl is a fashion designer, she’s an actress, she’s a singer, and she started right here on the side of this pool.


Howard Harenstein  1:03:10

She did I was I was here obviously when she was Easley, but a lot of these C’s one pretty big time. entertainers, too, there was an entertaining by the name of AJ Brown. I don’t know if you ever heard of him. But he said pertain here in the early days and he’s done Vegas. I used to go see him in Vegas once in a while and it’s fun when they recognize you. gave us a nice seat and everything. But of course to be a lot of money playing blackjack.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:39

Cars, everybody,


Howard Harenstein  1:03:40

it’s a good oper Georgia brown started off at Georgia Henry. She started off in Edo. She was part of routes of closure. Really? Yeah. Her husband, then her boyfriend owned it. And he, I guess I got the words and she went on away. But she went she went and started touring all around this Melvin Williams, the guy who plays in the piano bar No, Dave. Use the blade from Melvin Williams back 2025 years ago. Okay, yeah, it was actually not part of roots explosion, but he’s the backup and over. So


Mickey Gordon  1:04:14

for those of you that don’t know who are listening at home or on your drive to work or wherever you listen to casual swinger roots explosion is the house band at hedonism. So question for you about roots explosion. How often did the staff change often, often,


Howard Harenstein  1:04:29

often, very often, they since the early days, they’ve had trouble getting a good lead singer. Because when they get a great lead singer, they leave they go with another band, right. AJ brown now? Well, he wasn’t part of roots explosion, but AJ is actually part of the third world now. He’s their lead singer. But they come and go very quickly. This guy’s been here probably six months, eight months before that, and they had a guy that was just out of this wasn’t so good, but before him, they had But it was out of this world. They just seem to move on. It’s a good showcase for them.


Mickey Gordon  1:05:04

The other reggae singer that plays here regularly on Jamaica here, Lloyd Peter Lloyd


Howard Harenstein  1:05:10

Peter Lloyd is actually his agent is actually Harry. Harry decided to take him on and he comes here once a month. And Jamaica night.


Mickey Gordon  1:05:21

We saw him again this time, which is our fifth time seeing Peter. He’s amazing.


Howard Harenstein  1:05:26

Yeah. So here we actually managed some was a good choice. But Harry’s willing to help people. And if you have any other ties to the resort, because other than the fact and hiring managers, okay, but he Harry’s is willing to help people. I’ve seen him what he’s come to our reunion. And as a prize for Winston and Diana at one time, took him to the Music Video Awards in New York. That’s awesome. And the second year wins the game they brought him with to go see Hamilton, Hamilton. So Harry takes good care of his people really good care.


Mickey Gordon  1:06:10

You know, we heard that this week. We did


Howard Harenstein  1:06:12

some staff. Yeah, there’s a guy on my site. His name is Fatah. I forgot what his regular name was. But he made a comment that these people that don’t appreciate Harry should start appreciate him. He pays these people twice as much as what they got when he was here. He pays him very well, he bonuses and he’s he loves employees. And that’s very, very important. Where before we’re in Super profits as the employees had no idea who worked for them. The GM said, but the owners had no clue.


Mickey Gordon  1:06:44

There’s a saying in business that people don’t quit companies. They quit managers. Yeah. Yep. And and I think Harry understands that very well. Well, yeah. Right. And I think and of course, you know, the big boss sets the tone. And everybody else follows and step. That’s true. Whether you’re a father, whether you’re a business owner, whether you’re just a manager of just a couple of people, I


Howard Harenstein  1:07:06

look forward to see what the next upgrade is going to be because the rooms are done. Now they’re working on the community room. And I think that’s going to be to people are going to do massages, stuff in there. And Tantra stuff.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:22

That’s the former squash courts, right? Yeah. They were squash courts that were never used when they there was a six people on the planet play squash.


Howard Harenstein  1:07:30

I actually used it a lot here. Really? Yeah, because it rained a lot. We went over anniversary. Truthfully, every anniversary we had here rain. No kidding. Everyone was the last two years, it’s been pretty good. That tiny everyone in the room and move everything inside?


Mickey Gordon  1:07:46

Well, you know, with my voice being what it is, I’m going to let Mallory take us out. But Howard, I want to make sure that you know how much she and I appreciate your time, and not just your time here with us. But what you’ve done here at the resort and what you do outside of this resort to help continue to awareness. Why don’t you take us out and I can’t


Mallory Gordon  1:08:02

say that any better. Thank you so much, Howard. So thank you guys for listening. I’m Mallory. That’s Mickey. You can find us at casual swinger calm or anywhere you can search casual swinger, which is SLS Twitter, Facebook, Cassidy SDC. And I’m missing one.


Mickey Gordon  1:08:21

Oh, you guys know where we are. That’s right. And you know what we’re gonna put a link in our synopsis that lets you know where to find Howard in his Hito reunion group. So if you want to learn more about this place, you want to talk to the man, the myth, the legend yourself, you can do that. We’re going to put that in the synopsis for you. And we’ll come at you with some more casual swinger here shortly.


Mallory Gordon  1:08:41

Welcome back to casual swinger, guys. I’m Mallory. And I’m Mickey. And we just want to thank you for listening to these special episodes regarding the living history of hedonism. We hope you enjoyed it.


Mickey Gordon  1:08:52

Yeah, that was Howard Herrnstein. You just heard from and if you haven’t followed him yet on Facebook, go check it out. They have a little group called the Sandy Hook reunion on Facebook. So you can go check those guys out. And if you’re a hedonist if you’ve been to Hito before and you love Hito, go check it out. And that’ll do it for this episode, right?


Mallory Gordon  1:09:10

Yeah, so Well, I’m gonna go find a dirty banana on the beach. Oh, boy. Well, hey,


Mickey Gordon  1:09:15

find me too. If you’re here and make sure you play our game. What’s under my hat? It’s on Twitter. And everybody we’ll see you tomorrow with john gross from the fluffer nutters for the winds of change. You’ve been listening to casual swinger.



Hi, I’m Venus from the Venus cupholders podcast and I have a special message for all of the single ladies listening. What if you could have a loving, committed partner who wants to stay totally faithful to you By who would love to see you have incredible experiences with others? It sounds too good to be true, right? It is true. You really can have it all and be loved, celebrated and even put on a pedestal. Learn more at Venus connections.com