BONUS! – Dating Kinky – What’s Wrong w/ “Swinging?” ft. Our Naughty Escapades, Sapphic Swingers, & Monogamish Marriage

Recent Podcast

Casual Swinger Recommends

BONUS ALERT!

Another week another special episode for you guys, this one featuring a LIVE recording we did on behalf of Dating Kinky & their “It’s Not Cheating” special.  In this segment we discuss “What’s Wrong w/ Swinging?” and how different viewpoints of what is and is not swinging create conflicts in many areas of Ethical Non-Monogamy.  This episode features Our Naughty Escapades, Sapphic Swingers, and the Monogamish Marriage, too!

Dating Kinky

Our Naughty Escapades

Sapphic Swingers

Monogamish Marriage

Casual Toys

Hearing impaired? This podcast is transcribed for your convenience.

Edit

 

Whats Wrong With Swinging – A Dating Kinky Panel w Monogamis…

Thu, 9/2 10:04AM • 1:22:23

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

swinger, people, lifestyle, swinging, sex, rachel, consent, consensual, playstyle, club, nikki, experiences, call, play, question, swap, happen, couple, friends, bob

SPEAKERS

Mickey Gordon, Mallory Gordon, Bob Our Naughty, Kate Monogamish Marriage, Tiff Sapphic Swingers, Rachel Sapphic Swingers, Liam Monogamish Marriage, Nookie Dating Kinky, Nikki Our Naughty

 

Mallory Gordon  00:02

You’re listening to the casual swinger podcast as your hosts, we need to warn you that the material you’re about to hear may be sexual or explicit in nature. This podcast is intended for an adult audience. Now we don’t expect you to act like adults. What’s the fun in that?

 

Mickey Gordon  00:16

We’re a married couple living in Florida with over 13 years of experience in the lifestyle and we take almost nothing seriously. Casual swingers a variety show meaning we’ll cover everything from music to events, travel, and even the occasional hilarious screw up. Our show is about entertainment. We’re not licensed professionals had anything and our stories, commentary and guidance should not be confused with the opinions of a licensed professional.

 

Mallory Gordon  00:41

Now that you know, let’s stick those pants off and get comfy. And

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  00:51

welcome back to another talk for it’s not cheating is ethical and consensual non monogamy. We are now on the wild side. Let me tell is this panel. Oh my gosh, they’ve already got my ribs cracking with laughing. So this is going to be a fun talk. The talk is what’s wrong with swinging. We’re going to be talking about all different misconceptions and ideas that people have around all of this that are just way way far out. We’ve got Mickey and Mallory from the casual swinger who I absolutely adore these two are brilliant A f let me just tell you, Bob and Nikki from our naughty escapades who have fun. Definitely want to follow them. Tiffany Rachel from sapphic swingers, who by the way, if you are not familiar with their podcast, we’ll have you in stitches. Oh my god, these ladies are out of monogamous marriage who might just be the most attractive couple I have ever seen in my entire life. Also brilliant. Like what’s a girl to do? Um, here we are with a thoughtful and entertaining panel all about swinging. Let’s get started. Mickey,  Mallory. Take it away.

 

Mickey Gordon  02:23

All right, first of all, thanks to the folks from dating kinky. And for this. It’s not cheating weekend. This makes us really happy. And we’re excited to bring some of our friends and fellow content creators to all your folks and just talk about kind of what’s what’s broken in the word swinging and the lifestyle and ethical non monogamy consensual non monogamy because even though we find these ways to identify ourselves and people that are like us, we still end up hearing things. We’re gonna talk about this in a few like, oh, you’re not a real swinger, you’re not really in the lifestyle because you don’t like your peanut butter and jelly the same way I do.

 

Mallory Gordon  02:59

Yeah. And on the other end of that is I’m not actually a swinger. I only do X, Y or Z. Yeah.

 

Mickey Gordon  03:04

So our question for our panelists today is, what is a swinger? So I’d like to start we’re gonna start at the top with the beautiful ladies tiffin. Rachel, from your

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  03:13

perspective. We thought a lot about this because it’s, it could encompass so many different things. For me, I kept it simple. I think it’s a consensual sexual engagement with someone who wasn’t your partner with limited or no emotions involved in it is my basic bare bones. But it really there’s so many depths to it, but bare bones as being Rachel’s way smarter than me. So

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  03:43

what I view is swinger is a couple or a single who choose to have an open relationship, which would generally include sexy fun outside your romantic relationship. But that can be can be anything. There’s so many levels of swinging from failure, exhibitionist, soft swap, full swap. So there’s, I mean, I assume all of those are considered swingers.

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  04:09

I see. This very weekend panel this panel discusses now so voyer exhibition is so like, the way I see sexual engagement if you’re just performing or if you’re you’re having sex in front of people or just watching its engagement. So but I’m a little on the fence about it. You know, boys exhibitionist cross line that’s a label everyone or be like, we would never judge anyone you want to come hang out. Watch me have sex. It’s awesome. I do I think, no way. are we selling tickets at the door? I mean, I mean, I’ll watch the dog. Yes. So yeah. You know why y’all are talking about your definitions? I’m curious what the panel thinks about lawyers and expos right as part of the swinging the swing. You’re more than welcome.

 

Mickey Gordon  04:57

Right. All right. So let’s go to Bob and Nikki. And get your thoughts on what a swinger is. And if you want to extrapolate or expand on what Tiffany Rachel said, Go for it. Um,

 

Bob Our Naughty  05:08

I mean, I know for me I think swinging is exactly that where you know, you’re you’re swinging You know, you’re either taking part in extra curricular sexual activity of some sort, whether it be soft swap full swap it, you know, with another couple or with another person, depending on if you’re single or a coupling, you know, or playing with singles. Can you guys hear? We can hear you right now.

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  05:52

I’ll translate Bob loves sex, amen, men. There’s nothing wrong with being bisexual man lifestyle, and Bob’s into it. That’s totally cool. We love them. We support them. Very, very cool. Oh, I’m blessing I’m in trouble. I just turned off my video. That’s all that happened here. Our answer while they figure out their technical difficulties? Absolutely. The space. They should be good, right.

 

Liam Monogamish Marriage  06:25

Yeah, so I think first of all, a swinger is someone who’s willing to wear a really terrible label. Okay, the word swinger itself is like, would anyone want that in their New York Times obituary? I assume, everyone on this obituary, would you want your attached to your name? So that’s my first take on swinger?

 

Kate Monogamish Marriage  06:46

Yeah. I mean, it’s kind of a holdover from the 50s or the 70s. Right. And it’s it doesn’t have great connotations associated with it. And you think of like key parties and people just having random hookups and no, like notches, and belts and whatever, and that hasn’t been our experience of it at all. And when Nikki was on tippin, Rachel’s podcast, she said that she was a polyamorous mano romantic pact that I was like, that’s what I am. I’m using the wrong word. Right? So polyamorous is meaning that, you know, we, we sometimes sleep with the people we care about. So we have a group of close friends and like we love hanging out with them and socializing and, you know, having parties and sometimes we actually have sex with them. Yeah, that’s if that’s polyamorous, then that’s what I am. I don’t have a lot of like, random hookups with strangers. Some swingers do but that’s not our style and modern romantic part. I mostly just want to have life with this guy and have sex with other people that I like.

 

Mickey Gordon  08:00

I don’t blame you. I mean, we think he’s pretty boring makeup. So don’t be fooled. Excellent job. I don’t care. You can keep it on dear. Bob, Nick, you’re going to rejoin slight technical snafu there that pumped at us as well. So apologies for that. But you know, it’s funny, I hear everybody talking about what is a swinger and they’re talking about what we do. But what I didn’t hear anybody really talking about? I’m curious if any of you have any thoughts about it? Is what about emotionally or socially? Is there anything that identifies us that maybe is a little different than your average person? And I say vanilla not to be insulting or anything big but somebody that lives their life in a monogamous, heterosexual or even, you know, bisexual or homosexual with only one person? Is there something different about somebody that wants to be non vanilla and something different? I mean, just socially, is

 

Liam Monogamish Marriage  09:05

it different? Well, I don’t see it in the strength of our relationships, just because of the openness that you start off with. So in a first conversation with someone you’ve met in the swinging lifestyle, you’re likely to get to discuss how they like to come, who they are, what their favorite sex position is, things that I have not yet gotten to with my best friend who don’t identifies. So I think that’s, that brings a level of intimacy that most people don’t know when that I didn’t know before I started in.

 

Kate Monogamish Marriage  09:42

Relationships You mean like us with our friends? Yes. with anyone. And I’d say the strength of relationships between us has to be there as well, right? You have to have that foundation of education, trust you know, feeling very secure in your relationships or whatever. doesn’t become too much of a problem. So that has to be kind of the foundational level before the next, you know, next step kind of things that are happening.

 

Mallory Gordon  10:14

So while we’re waiting for Bob and Nikki to get back on so we all kind of know the term swinger, right. And I know personally that my perception of it was a lot different before I migrated into the lifestyle or started looking into it. I think that’s pretty normal. What do you guys think? Did you have a different perception of the lifestyle or swinging before you entered into

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  10:36

it? When we first started exploring a lot, the swinger lifestyle, whatever word we want to use, back in 2013, I was like this actually, if I was like, there’s swear clubs, they actually call it like, like, like, like language said it was like, it’s so 1970s like, what is going on here? I couldn’t believe that we live like 15 minutes away from club where you can go have sex from other people or with other people. That kind of blew my mind.

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  11:05

Absolutely. I mean, I guess I had been a swinger before. Before I met him and didn’t even realize it. I mean, I had had threesomes and foursomes and I went to, like this house, that kind of setup like a finger. And then, and then the moment that we first went through a swinger club, it kind of hit me like, Oh, my God, this was like a weird version of swinging. He just didn’t call it that I could play Of course, because that firm is not anything that we’re used to. But I like to call those the Dark Ages before. It’s,

 

Mickey Gordon  11:41

you know, we talked about this in what we thought it was, and then what it became we, we talked about, you know, swinging and there’s a good question from hoppers, they actually asked about taking the word swingers, back and if you search swingers, half the results are about golf. So I think a lot of people have started to see some other terms, which kind of takes us to our next question, which is, we’re we’re asking about terminology right? And it is swinging the same thing as consensual non monogamy, or ethical non monogamy. Are those the same thing? Do any of these terms have negative connotations? And I think some of us have indicated and maybe even the hoppers there, that swinging does have a negative connotation. So are they the same thing? consensual non monogamy and ethical non monogamy? And is it the same thing as swinging? And is that a good thing? Let’s start with Bob and Nikki since we unceremoniously punted them. I’m still trying to get my bearings again. Alright, well, give me a minute. How about you making cake?

 

Kate Monogamish Marriage  12:47

Um, I think essential and ethical non monogamy is that is a term that would encompass more than just swingers. So you know, under that broad umbrella, you might have people who are open and people who are calling people who can spaces have. Also, I think ethical non monogamy is a broader umbrella when you’re one of the, you know, one of the categories under that. But yeah, I think even in swinger spaces, you’re going to find people who have labels for themselves. So in our speaker tribe, we’ve got, you know, a poly quad, and then a poly triad. And they swing in those relationships. And so, any fingers No, it’s not a single thing, right? It’s, again, like they’re all categories.

 

Liam Monogamish Marriage  13:46

Yeah, nice. How you viewed it from the outside our experience was, we didn’t know we were inside once we were inside. threesome with one of his friends. It happened very organically. And then we went to a club and did nothing with anyone else. location. And you know, after a while, we realized oh, we’re in the lifestyle by just taking little steps that individually weren’t a big deal.

 

Mickey Gordon  14:22

So Mike, I got to know did like the Welcome Wagon come by and bring you a gift basket. Like you just moved to the neighborhood. How did you find out who you were? Yeah, it was a very special moment. But yeah, okay. Tiffany, Rachel, how about you consensual non monogamy ethical non monogamy? Are they the same thing as a swinger is, I mean, are these interchangeable terms?

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  14:45

I see them as interchangeable is consensual non monogamy and ethical non monogamy. Obviously, you you are. You’re I mean, I view it as two or more people engaging in sex or love and communication. And before before that behavior, and so the ethical part is respect and that that encompassed in, in the whole, the whole swinger community. I mean, I mean, I think that’s first and foremost, with swinging,

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  15:14

I think maybe like one difference between like swinging, we might go to the club and not even actually a woman having sex, which is true. I imagine. You know, you’re talking about, you know, get her name. I mean, it happens, you know. So maybe that’s Cooper, this bringing versus the monogamy? I don’t know, this is a tough question, because it’s, it’s they all seem sort of all all intertwined. I’m just warning, what can I say? It’s been much not helping me. And this is why we can’t take each other seriously, folks, we can’t have though. So Bob,

 

Mallory Gordon  16:00

and Nikki, do you think ethical and consensual non monogamy are the same things? And it’s Do you see, like any negative connotation around those?

 

Bob Our Naughty  16:07

Well, I had to look them up, because obviously had to be a difference between the two Oh, vote, but I consider him the same thing. You know, I just, I think they go hand in hand, you know, and ethically was you know more about the kindness and consensual and more about the act. So I do I think they go side by side with, you know, swinging for what, or what swinging in our life is, is how I would say, you know, we don’t put ourselves in situations where people wouldn’t be timed and things like that. So I think I mean, for us, I would say we probably feel they should be the same thing. But we do have different definitions. negative connotation on swinger? Hell yeah. And has a horrible connotation. People think of it is like those key parties back in the 70s. You know, it’s just crazy, but it’s not it’s it. It’s just people who enjoy sharing each other and experiences with others, you know, and watching your partner enjoying your partner with someone else. It’s all it to me. They’re the same. Long story short,

 

Mickey Gordon  17:26

you know, from from our perspective, not that we’re here to answer questions, because you guys are the stars of the show. But I know Mallory, better than probably anybody and certainly better than her gynecologist does. And I would say if somebody is not operating or comporting themselves ethically, there’s no chance she’s going to do something consensual. Absolutely. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So by virtue of that fact, they can very much be the same thing. But that kind of takes us, you know, to the question of ethics and consent, and how our playstyles is people. So has anybody on this panel ever had their status as consensually or ethically non monogamous? Is anyone ever had their status challenged? Right? I mean, so But actually, it looks like the these are out of order, but that’s okay. Okay. There we go. And we’re gonna get to your individual playstyles. Because I do one of the reasons that this panel is who it is, is because we all create similar but different kinds of content and have similar but different playstyles. So tell us a little bit about whether your status was challenged by somebody that didn’t share your play style. And what we’re talking about is if you’re in the in the club and lifestyle clubs are probably the most frequent place to have this or maybe even online in you know, SLS.

 

Mallory Gordon  18:54

I think that’s where we’ve experienced it is

 

Mickey Gordon  18:56

okay, so your answer is no, you don’t want to play with me. So you’re not really in the lifestyle. Or you’re not really a swinger that. So starting with Tiff and Rachel and because you guys have a very unique way. So I want to start with you and give you some room to wiggle here. Okay, I’m not a swinger so. I’m

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  19:28

absolutely because we’re, we’re two women and in lifestyle guys who like sweet Teresa. We’ve actually had a gentleman who was genuinely insulted that we do want to play with them. As if like everyone in lifestyle, or every woman and lifestyle is by default, at least they’re in a man, right. And that couple, they actually had whole passes. Yeah, they were doing games with other people. They could do whatever they wanted, but he would not even allow her to play with us. And we’re like, okay, He was that mad. So it seemed like they were just very just shocked by it. But I don’t know, like maybe people who don’t consider us lifestyle or swinger I don’t know. I mean, we we definitely have fun with the babies.

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  20:17

And so to have brought up a point where where a guy was offended, but then conversely, I mean, we have found in the lifestyle that I want to say the majority of women tend to be bisexual. Luckily, that we’ve met Yes. But there are two totally straight women. And we completely respect that. And so obviously, if they’re totally straight, that doesn’t necessarily drive with our playstyle. But

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  20:40

listen, so my best friends are heterosexual. A lot of our best friends. It’s just like the guys so we don’t play with the guys. But honestly, like we’re talking about the vanilla relationships. No other relationship can even come close to the relationship we have with our swinger friends, lifestyle, friends, whatever you want to call, even though we don’t do anything the guys like they’re our best friends. Like once they seen your own face. They see you begging their wife or girlfriend. Like what is left to not be open about? Talk about everything. And it’s so awesome. We get you know, we don’t even bed naked exome it’s five o’clock in the morning. Like, I like it. The question was, and I

 

Mickey Gordon  21:30

and we’re going to delve more into your personal playstyle here in a minute. Go to Bob and Nikki and Bob, I know that you shirt caulk when you make coffee. So tell us over your lifestyle journey because I think as a and I’m going to get put this in air quotes. You can’t see me but as a traditional lifestyler. You know, you guys probably went through a long process if you went into the lifestyle where your play style changed. So have you ever had your status changed by somebody that didn’t share your play style before it evolved into what it is that or has it happened today? Go do it.

 

Nikki Our Naughty  22:06

No. Okay. All right. Okay, so we started a soft swap. And that was a comfort level for him. And I and it constantly was, why don’t you go? I don’t understand why would you just want oral sex instead of you know, full penetration? Well, for us, that’s what we’re comfortable with. And as we grew time in a lot of talking discussions, and we take a step forward, go into the full arena. And something wouldn’t be right. And so yes, you can count. It has changed drastically. I guess we started it with just me playing with girls. It was kind of in that tip and Rachel area. And that was it. So we’ve really don’t

 

Bob Our Naughty  23:03

we have but we did get challenged one time at a club, where we were talking to her. You know, they asked if we wanted to go play and we said sure. But you know, just Just so you know, we’re soft swap. And he looked at Nicki and said, well, you’ll suck my dad taught me. What good are you? And he missed your cue, Bob, you should have said I’ll fuck you. I was just sitting there like, All right, cool. Peace. Have a good one. You know, see you later. And that was really early. So it kind of Yeah, that was very new. Yeah. Like, are they all assholes? Yes. Oh, it’s all right. And if I said I was sorry about getting mad that one time, one time I get mad because I have to watch.

 

Mickey Gordon  24:02

Before we finish up today, we’re going to talk about how to deal with people that that challenge you or don’t approve of your lifestyle or the way that you lifestyle, whether that’s consensual, ethical, or just.

 

Mallory Gordon  24:16

Yeah, so I don’t think we asked Mike and Kate, have you guys in your experience out here in the swinger verse. ever had your status or your style challenged by other people in the circle?

 

Liam Monogamish Marriage  24:28

Yeah, it happened only once to us in a club and form of this challenge was just a facial expression like, oh, and I think it wasn’t actually anything new on there. But they were new. They thought the lifestyle was one thing they thought it’s important to make eye contact. And really not how we do it. It was just rice then so we were actually part of their journey, learning. variety. forms are like Oh, wasn’t actually a negative experience. We were trying to help him along the way.

 

Mickey Gordon  25:08

Alright, so I think that you we’ve all had those experiences, right? I think those experiences have maybe shaped us maybe. And what I worry about is what about newbies that, you know, have these experiences, maybe early on in their lifestyle journey, and it pushes them away. Maybe they think they’re not good enough, maybe they think that they can’t engage or that they shouldn’t be there because they don’t belong. Those things are all pretty rough. I mean, so let’s talk a little bit. And so let’s go to the relationship question. I’d like to talk about our individual relationships a little bit, Miss Nikki, you know, so let’s, let’s start with Mike and Kate, since I love their thoughtful answers here. Tell us about your relationship. How do you identify and has your playstyle evolved over the years? Where did it start? And what did it become? And how did that evolution happen?

 

Liam Monogamish Marriage  26:03

Well, I think we’re in a very fortunate because they don’t really have to identify having an answer they can communicate. Everything about what we do is long, firm. So just last night, we had sex with a couple that so yes, we broken our COVID mean. We’re jealous. And the conversation with that couple started just over three years ago. So we had sex with them for the first time last night. Yeah, wow. Yeah. Well, we’re Gracie are sharp, slow. So we’re so having a label isn’t that important, but we’re going to talk to you for hours before anything happens. We’re gonna listen to you for hours too. And we’re going to know where you’re coming from.

 

Kate Monogamish Marriage  26:54

Yeah, and of course, that’s evolved over time. At the beginning, we just wanted to have organic encounters with my best friend and one night drinking, testing, and then we were having a threesome. And I thought, This is amazing. I don’t know what it’s all exactly. But I want more of it. So we just started, you know, looking for other friends who might have that kind of, you know, barrier breaking down. And we didn’t know, call it we just wanted friends that we could also maybe enter into the sex. And, you know, we just slowly discovered other places where you can find those. desire and yeah, so not everything is an evolution. Right. And so we don’t like the word Skinner to use the lifestyle, but even that a little bit.

 

Mickey Gordon  28:02

I think there are a lot of terms for it. Right? We had we had a guest on our show that called it the naughty. Yeah. And he referred to it. So when we talk about this, so you guys are basically a full swap lifestyle couple. But you’re, you’re a long ball couple, right? You want to get to know somebody and really, maybe get in their head a little bit. And so my question before we move on for you guys, that makes the sex better? Is that Is that why you do it? Is it the deeper relationship? Is that where you’re after?

 

Liam Monogamish Marriage  28:35

Well, it’s kind of who we are. So it’s not even the better way or the worst way, it’s probably just the only way we’re going to do but

 

Kate Monogamish Marriage  28:43

it’s also very different between the two of us so I can meet someone have dinner with them instantly feel very close and connected and have chemistry and have sex with them that Mike is a little more long game, you know, he needs to feel a little more comfort and tends to take a little bit longer to get there than I do. And we’ve given each other the freedom to go at our own paces. So if I want to go ahead and have sex with a couple that night, when we first meet them, and Mike’s not comfortable yet, I’m allowed to go off on my own with them and he can take this time and get to know them. You know, over the next few years if that’s what it takes.

 

Liam Monogamish Marriage  29:25

Yeah. Couples on this panel that you had the first time you met them any couples at all. Hmm,

 

Kate Monogamish Marriage  29:32

there are a couple ladies here,

 

29:37

right. Say I think the rest of us are standing in line. I was gonna say my tickets really really? Beetlejuice. All right. Let’s go to Bob and Nicky.

 

Mallory Gordon  29:54

Tell us a little bit about your relationship. You know, how would you identify your style in the law You know, as a swinger or lifestyler, and it hasn’t been the same You said you started soft? How is it progressed? Where you guys now?

 

Bob Our Naughty  30:09

Good. So for us, we, when we started, it was more soft swap and girl girl for Nikki, when I would play beginning. But I would say that that has definitely changed. But I would say now we are, you know, we do enjoy getting to know people before we play, we’re more social swingers, I would say, for us, it’s a little different. I mean, I can meet a couple and go to bed that night. And Nikki takes a little longer, but I do enjoy getting to know people. I like to hear their story. You know, and it for us, it does make play a little more comfortable because you have a relationship, you have a foundation. So there is not as relationships a strong word,

 

Nikki Our Naughty  31:03

but you have a compatibility. You know, we you’ve laughed, you’ve talked to you’ve got something in common. Yes. relationship is probably too far. That’s good. Yeah.

 

Bob Our Naughty  31:18

But now we are. I mean, we’re, we’re soft swap or full swap, you know, it’s situational. All of its situational. But we, you know, we have dabbled in some other things and not liked it or tried some other things and have, but for the most part, you know, we’re, we’re conventional conventional swingers, I guess. Yeah. And by conventional, do you mean full swap? Yeah, we’re full stop, we will pull swaps off swap? I mean, it just depends on how the other couple is. There’s some that we, you know, soft swap with or some we full width, or we just don’t have to do

 

Nikki Our Naughty  32:02

full swap, I guess. Yeah. If they’re more comfortable, soft, swapping, some of our best, like, encounters has been soft swap. Because it slows everything down a little bit. You’re not in a hurry. You don’t have to rush to the end goal. But then again, we also have great ones that are a little sloppy. Yeah,

 

Mickey Gordon  32:22

well, that’s good, though, because and we’re going to kind of expand on all of this in a minute, right? We’re building to something here. So it’s good to hear that while you guys have some things in common with Mike and Kate, who talked before you, there’s still a bit of a difference there. Right. And even Mike and Kate have their differences, where Mike is definitely more cerebral and wants to dig in a little bit. And, you know, if Kate’s feeling it then Tiff and Rachel are in deep trouble. here from the lovely ladies of Florida, tell us a little bit about your relationship and how you identify and if that playstyle developed over time, or if it’s always been that way

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  33:02

as we come out there a little hard. Little so until we got we got in the lifestyle with sapiosexual. Like, more attracted like the smartest, you know, the good conversation. Obviously, no one’s not putting that on our profile, but like, like when I was talking about like, you know, more cerebral that’s pretty awesome. So back to me, because it’s all about me, maybe? Maybe, oh, no. We’ve been together 14 years. Married for nine. We started lifestyle about seven years ago. Rachel touched on a little bit how she was a little bit kind of lifestyle perhaps but didn’t know it. lifestyle late. Yeah, lifestyle, light, diet, diet lifestyle, I guess. It’s when we got together. I said, there’s no way I would ever be into any kind of threesome. Nothing. I said no way. Don’t even don’t ask me. But then. So about seven and a half years ago, we heard somebody talking about a club where you can go watch people have sex. I’m like, that sounds kind of cool. So like, go do that. She’s like, yeah, you want to do that? Hell yeah. Look at the club. And I’m like, looking at they’re like, Oh, it’s a swear club. So I’m like, what’s this miracle? I started listening to podcasts. And so that all sort of developed from there, and we’re like, Alright, it took us a few months to build up the courage to actually finally go to the swinger club. And never downhill ever since. But, um, yeah, I think that’s kind of our prerequisite to swing. Do you want to talk about our place? Now I don’t want anyone to hear my voice. Nobody wants to hear me talking.

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  34:56

So our play style has always been only women, and mostly same room. And I. So in the beginning, obviously exclusively same room. But as our friendships have developed and trust has developed between some of our closer playmates, kind of as you guys all touched on before, we we have done some separate play. And yeah, it’s It’s rare for us because part of part of the pleasure and harness that we get out of swinging is watching each other being turned on and enjoying the situation. So when you’re doing separate play, you don’t necessarily get that. So I would say, I would say that might have been the one evolution of our place. Yeah.

 

Mickey Gordon  35:36

I’m just laughing it tip over here doing the scissor bang. China’s together. Yeah. All right, you got a demo. Really. If you’re going to download I’m going to charge next time. Do you want to talk about our play style at all before we move on here, because what we’re going on to is probably going to

 

Mallory Gordon  36:09

now go over our play SEO. So you, Mickey was in a relationship in the lifestyle previous to me, um, so I think we started off more just girl on girl play. Anytime I new learn a new behavior, like a stubborn dog, I it takes me a long time to adapt to the situation to where I feel comfortable. But I was very bisexual in high school where it wasn’t widely accepted. And it was kind of couvert and undercover. And when I met him, and we we started exploring, we had the opportunity to kind of really dig into that part of me. And in swinging, I think that opened up the door to, you know, some soft swap opportunities. And then we started full swap. And now it’s kind of I don’t want to say a free for all. But I feel like we’ve gotten to a place where just about anything can be on the table. You know, it really depends on the people that we meet the environment that that we’re in at the time, I am probably a little bit closer to like, you know, a mike or Nicky, where it takes me a little bit longer to earn the trust. I’ve never been, you know, abused stray, feral cat or anything. But it’s just where my comfort level is. I it takes me a while to really get warmed up there.

 

Mickey Gordon  37:27

Yeah, I only have to argue about one point. And this is just because if Jay from average swingers is either on this or listening to it later. The only thing that’s not on the table is my blood.

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  37:40

Or twice. You know, this book about ASCE that I’d like to share with you sometime. You’re writing a book about ask right now. So yeah. Well, there’s

 

Mickey Gordon  38:00

so many so many things. I could say I don’t want to get into rabbit holes here. You know, when we first got started together in the lifestyle, we were still learning a lot of things about even just how to say no even how to say no gracefully if there was somebody we weren’t interested in. And it was a big struggle. And that’s very true. I

 

Mallory Gordon  38:18

had a hard time saying no, I didn’t know. I knew I could. But I didn’t know how

 

Mickey Gordon  38:22

we did we found ourselves in bed with a lady that experimented on rats. And her husband was a mortician. And we’re like, oh no. How do we get out of this happen? And because you just don’t know how to have that conversation. So one of the ways that we would have that conversation while there really is a book about ask, but you know, one of the ways we could start to have that conversation is that actually no, we’re not into that it was easier than saying we’re not into you. And so someone looked at us and said, Oh, so you’re not really a swimmer then. And I was like, bitch, I’ve been doing this since before I could draw he is

 

Mallory Gordon  39:02

I will say he got very indignant and he was very offended. Like, you can’t kick me out of a club. Like he’s not your role here.

 

Mickey Gordon  39:09

I earned my spot here. You are not cool. The way I want to go on with this a little bit is it was said to us is Is that okay? And is it right or wrong? You know, for somebody to tell you you don’t belong because you don’t do it their way. And I know we’ve talked about this a good bit, but what I’d like you guys to talk about a little bit is how you approach it. I know we have that as a separate question, but I think we have plenty of questions from the listeners to address to take us past this. So is it okay for somebody to say that to you? And if they do, how do you deal with it? I mean, in heaven. I mean, if you say if you’re saying no because you don’t like Marino because it’s not your playstyle is there a difference? I don’t think there is. So how do you deal with somebodies negative response to your area or to your rejection that way Yeah. All right, let’s, let’s start with Robin.

 

Bob Our Naughty  40:03

I mean, basically that I mean, if we say no and they want to, you know, push us push us or cop attitude about it, then it’s a it was great meeting you have a good night, you know, maybe we’ll see you again sometime.

 

Nikki Our Naughty  40:14

It also affirms how I felt where we felt with saying no, whatever the reason being, if you’re going to be an asshole to me, because I respectfully decline when you weren’t anyone I wanted to get to know in or out of the bedroom, or play area in general. So

 

Mickey Gordon  40:34

yeah, yeah, we just walk away. Yeah, pretty much. Okay. That’s a lot nicer than my fuck you clown. Yeah. He’s so eloquent. Always want to see the reaction where I’m like, Oh, yeah. Thank you. All right. Tiffany, Rachel, what are your thoughts on it? And I think you know, and again, I love having you guys on this panel, because your lifestyle dynamic is so unique, but you’re also so open and energetic about it. I can’t imagine somebody being negative towards you guys. But Has that happened? And how have you handled it?

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  41:11

You know, we’ve had a few occasions where someone is, like, a little bit homophobic. Like, it was not towards us usually, guys are like, Yay, to women. Let’s watch them have sex. Like, Hey, guys, like no. Like, fuck you, man. This is this is open, this is judgment free. It should be. Well, unfortunately, there’s still a lot of bias judgment and lifestyle, whether it’s you know, based on your you know, how you play or you know, your, you know, your color or your weight or whatever it is, like, it’s ridiculous, this should be the most judgment free place in the world. We we’ve we’ve had some negative

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  41:52

Well, I want to pinpoint on that. So conversely, to to what Jeff said, because they hear that we’re two lesbians, they think that we want to play with every single woman. And that’s, that’s obviously not our playstyle. I mean, we need we need to have, we need to have chemistry with a girl. And so that’s kind of our go to response on emails as well. Like, we’ll go out for a drink, we’ll see if we all play with see if there’s chemistry there. Because if that’s all there, there’s never gonna be play. And it doesn’t matter what your play style is,

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  42:20

or what you look like, if you don’t have that personality. It’s not gonna, it’s not gonna happen. And it’s a lot easier to reject somebody online than in person because we got, I mean, when before COVID bullshit, we used to go to trapeze every, every Saturday, pretty much every Saturday. And then, you know, do the cruises and of course, film again, and all the fun stuff, all the parties. Now, nowadays, it’s like, it’s like, people write us who say, Oh, sorry, with COVID we can’t do anything. But face to face rejection is a little bit harder. I don’t know, it’s but people feel that again, like Rachel said that we just want to put her face in everyone’s vagina, which is know initially, like, interested in getting to know the woman when we first started, like, like I said, we might even get to know her name. And she starts kissing us for like, Game on. But now we’ve like we find a way better to to, you know, to be friends with her. And you know, like, it’s our partner. And it just makes it so much better for us. So I feel like we’re moving more towards that in the past few years that we were at the beginning. I think we’ve gone totally off. More wine solves. Yeah. All right. Mike, Mike. And Kate.

 

Mickey Gordon  43:48

Tell us tell us about how you deal with that. I mean, that your your styles, not their style. It’s not okay. They’re not willing to wait for you, Mike, is there a way to deal with that?

 

Liam Monogamish Marriage  43:59

Bit of a problem in that we’ve become so good at being in an inoffensive way that people think oh, it really is this thing that just came in for a problem. And were usually counted on in the lifestyle. If you make a good excuse, a couple of times, people get the idea that Oh, they’re really not into it. So I noticed a very indirect but but it’s a problem because people just they just keep coming and coming they never get the message because they think all those excuses are actual real excuse they don’t. So that’s something we got to work on.

 

Kate Monogamish Marriage  44:37

Well, and in our pro of, you know, only sleeping with people who we consider friends largely avoids all of this, right. So we’re not going to invite people over. If we don’t feel like we really liked them and in the moment as well. Starting to play things don’t go the way that we hoped, or the way that they hoped. The people we hang out with are going to be the people who are like, it’s okay. Like, we can totally change direction. And that’s not going to hurt our feelings we don’t really like. So yeah, I’m reading out before we could get around to sex talk. We want to have good people, decent people who are going to be understanding and patient, you’re gentle with us. And we’re not going to have people who are mean or like, right, like, yeah.

 

Mickey Gordon  45:37

So as sex positive people, do we owe it to anybody? Or should we correct them when they do it wrong? Should we tell people this isn’t the way to do it? I mean, a great way to change it.

 

Mallory Gordon  45:48

Is that because you felt compelled to address it on site? Yeah. Where I had to digest that there for a minute and go, you know, is that really what this community is about? And we were judge meant free. We we accept all walks and all kinds? And is it my job to stand up and go, you know, agree to disagree, but I think you’re wrong.

 

Mickey Gordon  46:11

Yeah, why I usually do that with the fuck up. But I think we could probably do it better. I mean, should we correct them and say that there’s a better way? Does anybody have thoughts on that? We don’t have to necessarily round people generally have thoughts on whether we should do this differently and say, hey, it’s it’s not okay to put somebody down for not playing the game your way. And maybe there’s a better way to have this conversation where you make a friend and you might find yourself in a position to be in bed with somebody that plays long ball. Yeah, like Bob and Nikki and I can learn through a process of elimination. Yeah, or just yeah, just sitting there by yourself masturbating. Maybe that’s the answer.

 

Bob Our Naughty  46:48

I can say for us. When we first got into lifestyle, we met a couple. And the first thing he said to us was, listen, I’m not here to make friends. I’m here to fuck. If you want to fuck, let’s go. If you don’t, I got nothing for you. Wow, he is still to this day later. Wow. That long game can go a long way. And I’ll tell you what, he was a very rough, gruff person in the beginning. And he is his personality has changed after, you know, meeting new people and things like that. He is just one hell of a person. And we do have the harder talks with him. Yes, we have sat down with him and said, Listen. Yeah, shut up. Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true.

 

Mickey Gordon  47:44

I imagine the differential seat a lot. Do you guys ever challenge anybody on it and say, Hey, wait a minute, we got to do this. Smash.

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  47:57

Very, very little tolerance for rude disrespectful, anyone who’s going to judge anyone else? Very, very, very little, little patients for it. I’ll say something right to their face, be like, whatever you said was incorrect. And you need to fix your shit. And then we’ll walk away, let them fix their shit. like three years, like literally three years, I talked about like, probably seats and because you need to fix your shit, I’ll be happy to sit down and talk with them. But it just didn’t come with an ignorant attitude. That’s not what the lifestyle should be about. And like being LGBT, you know, there’s we’re already like, put in a different box. Anyone else? lifestyle is like our home. It’s our it’s our family for so many different reasons. You guys are excluded. But we should all work to be inclusive. We shall work to be to be loving. I mean, physically and you know, emotionally. It’s just it should be our happy place. I think

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  49:01

well, and I think when we’re at a Springer event, we’re usually in such a happy frame of mind that when when you get that kind of negative feedback in totally, it takes you out of only having that evening and I Oh, she totally gloves on. I told her you get 10 seconds we’ll like get over this and then we’ll still go have fun, but why don’t you say

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  49:28

like, we don’t want it guys and then they just come up and grab our booth. We’re like, no, that’s non consensual. Not cool. Not have like, some gay boys. come grab you. You’re not gonna like it. Come on, man. Not cool. Maybe they will and that’s the problem. That’s totally fine. That’s

 

Mickey Gordon  49:49

it if I had to sum up what I’ve heard hear from these amazing creators today is that there’s nothing wrong with swinging as a as a terminology, maybe a little antiquated. It certainly inspires images of fun in some people’s head like mine. But there’s nothing wrong with consensual non monogamy or ethical non monogamy either, you know, rock what you got and enjoy doing it. And if somebody has an issue with it, you can take my approach, which is two words and very direct or you can take some of the longer approach explaining to them their failures as a human and why should they crawl under the rock that they came from?

 

Mallory Gordon  50:26

I think I think that’s actually a great way to sum that up. So I’m going to look to Nikki and Ryan here to see if we had any questions come in, or if there’s anything else that you wanted to add to cap this off?

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  50:37

Yes, yes, a couple of things. First of all, we’re gonna do a real quick math three to five minute word from our sponsors. That would be me. Actually, let me go. Our commercial, right like this is, um, and then we do have some questions. And there were a couple of things that I was listening to that I very specifically wanted to add things other than smartass comments, too, so. So for those of you who are possibly new to the not cheating event, or new to all of this, I’m gnocchi, and I run dating kinky. I’m the founder and dating kinky is the producer of it’s not cheating. And one of the ways that we support what we do is we have a plus membership. And what is this plus membership? Well, the plus membership is a library. You get a data kinky book every month with your membership. So yesterday, that was eight books. Today, we released the it’s not cheating book itself. And so now you have nine books in the library that you get immediately as you sign up. If you’re ever unable to attend a dating kinky webinar, or if you missed any of the webinars from this event, you get those you get the replays. So that includes video, mp3 format, and it includes the chat, chat admin live chat transcript. I’ve been I’ve been tripping over that today for some reason. More than that, though, especially here with not cheating you out also get access to the bonus content. We have an interview with Venus cook odorous, we have a jealousy workshop. We have a non monogamy with kids talk coming up and a solo quali talk coming up. So there’s that plus you get if you’re if you sign up for our dating site, you also get exclusive plus membership features on the dating site. Priority support from the amazing dating kinky team. That’s me, Ryan and ellia are here on the chat as well. And then Selene who usually runs the backend. The back end. Yeah, and one of the books that is the big book of ask where you are going to learn all about spearfishing for poop sharks, the chocolate starfish, Hershey highway, all the wonderful things that you can do with buts fucking awesome. So this plus membership runs you a whopping $5 a month. 12345 not very many that’s less than a unicorn snot frappuccino. And it gives you so much Plus, it allows us to get to the point we’re working towards what my CFO Joe calls financial sustainability. We’re a startup here and he uses big words financial sustainability. And he says I will never reach financial sustainability if I give everything away, which is why we have a commercial break. Oh, wow, that makes sense. Right? You know, okay. Um, so, yeah, $5 a month is what we ask. And if you cannot support us for whatever reason, or you don’t feel like you want to support us. There are so many other ways that you can help us without actually financially putting any money. You can show up for these events and bring your friends you can tell everyone on social media, you can put like, if you want us to, we’ll help you like paint your car and you can drive it around town. There are so many ways because really when it comes right down to it, a free member might be the oopsie of somebody else’s dreams and we don’t want to keep you all apart. But if you do have that extra five bucks a month, we’ll take it and on that note, Ryan should have put a link for the plus membership in the chat. Also Ryan make sure and put in a link for that. not cheating, so they can access the plus membership there. They’re not cheating. Paige also has a 50 page sample of the new book. So you can remember that, yeah, some of what you might get from all of this. Okay. So, um, I’m going to first start with something that you’ve just asked, which was in this lifestyle? Do you do we do we feel like we have a responsibility to call people out and educate them. And I have some thoughts on that. Because, you know, in the kink lifestyle, we see a lot of the same types of behaviors gatekeeping, and you’re not kinky enough for whatever that might be. And I would say this, if you have the resources at that moment to call somebody out, absolutely do it. But there are times and there are people who, and when confrontation is not going to happen, or it’s not going to go well, if you put yourself into that confrontation. It’s going to ruin your evening, or it’s going to bring things down or you just aren’t a confrontational type of person. I think that’s okay. It takes lovers and fighters to make up this wonderful world we’re in and I I’m a scrappy person. I like to take people on. You know, but I, I also realized that not everybody’s like that, right? Like not everybody’s ready to jump into it with a stranger and say it that was some really racist shit you just spouted. Check yourself, you know, like, not everybody’s going to do that. And I think that that’s absolutely valid. Okay, so, going on to questions that we got hoppers, said, brands, do you guys think that there’s a possibility of ever taking the word swingers back? Like taking it back from all of this misunderstanding and, you know, 70s, weirdness, and so on and so forth, or do you think it’s had its day?

 

Mallory Gordon  57:22

I’ll start the answer to that one is Mallory. So we intentionally chose that name for our podcast because of that, as a as a way to identify with who we are and what we do, but also been a positive light behind the world that that seems to be antiquated and very male Affirmative. Like I don’t know how to describe it, though. The first time I said I was a swinger to somebody they’re like, see your, your husband makes you do what? Oh, I have the keys to the kingdom

 

Mickey Gordon  57:57

where the guys would say to me, you let your wife daddy let your wife I can’t let her do shit. She tears The band. Yeah, I

 

Mallory Gordon  58:06

think I think there is an opportunity. And I think personally, for us, that’s what we’re trying to do is, is bring it back to a positive light.

 

Mickey Gordon  58:15

And my secret love of Austin Powers may come out a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. What about what about the rest of you do the rest of you have some thoughts on that?

 

Liam Monogamish Marriage  58:28

I think it’s on its way. I think if I look at my experience, and what we will call swinging, it’s been primarily a spiritual experience. And nothing about the swinger conveys that so nothing. The technical terms like ethical non monogamy are much better. But it’s, it’s getting closer to what our experiences. Tiffany

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  58:56

it seemed weird at first, but then we just thought that was just the term that was used. I think lifestyle has become more of a term that we live for, like, oh, welcome, the LS and you know, on emails and stuff like that, obviously, you know, we’re Safra cleaners. Because they’re men because when we first got into it, we’re like oh, that’s what it’s called. I feel like the new terms have become like more they’ve been evolving throughout the years like ethical non monogamy i don’t i don’t know if that was thrown around a lot. It might have been a really bad list. I can’t read either. So I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s negative. I mean, look, I’m fine getting rid of any of that stuff. But you know, we’re we just want to you know, be correct with whatever is gone. But you know, I mean? Yeah, it’s it’s it’s a little bit antiquated, but we know what it means. Now. I mean, we

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  59:47

we tend to use lifestyle more often, or lifestyle more and kind of like the pro tip like if you’re amongst vanilla people as well, but you say do you know do you know Ellis and people are familiar Then Then that’s kind of an easy way to pick the Springer’s out. as well.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:00:09

You know why I want to take it back Nikki it personally as as a lifestyle person non monogamous person is there’s so many words in every language that create pain. So people use them intentionally to create pain. And if we allow swingers to become a derogatory term, then it creates pain. I’m not going to give that to somebody on purpose. So do I think that we should take it back? Yeah, I do. Because I don’t want to give it to an asshole. Yeah, Bob, and Nikki, do you have any thoughts on that one?

 

Bob Our Naughty  1:00:46

I agree with that. I, I hate to see like, I’ve used the term before and said, Oh, yeah, we’re swingers. And somebody was like, Oh, you’re a swinger? You know, it’s not a negative term. Right. It’s the term it’s just a word. It doesn’t have to be used negatively. So I agree. I would like to take it back. I mean, I’m one person. Mickey’s one person, we’re probably not going to be able to do it on our own. But we use the term lifestyle more than swing they do. Yeah. And I don’t challenge

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  1:01:19

that I see on purpose. Yeah, the challenge that I see with that, though, is, and this is this is what’s really hilarious to me is that in kink, they also call it the lifestyle. So, you know, then we’ve got, you know, conflicting lifestyles, and not that I care one way or another. I mean, I’m happy, you know, hop in between and with them, you know, I mean, I don’t really give us but, you know, the swinger the swing set has a tendency to give the kinky people the side eye, they do what they hit people. And the kinky people tend to like side by the swingers. They just have sex for fun with anyone like, like, Okay, anyway, um, I think I think with i don’t i don’t think swinging. I think there’s a lot of misconceptions around swinging. I don’t think, I think lately, it’s not quite as tarnished, as it used to be. I think now that swinging is they’re putting, it seems to me that they’re putting more emphasis on consent, verbal consent, active consent, that type of thing. And so for me, within like the past 10 years or so it seems more positive from people in the know. Anyway. So for what it’s worth, why I looked at the sex positive that we hear so often. Yes. Yes, yes. It’s got to be consensual. Yeah. And speaking, speaking of consensual, so September, the second weekend in September, our next big event like this is going to be focused on consent, boundaries, communication and negotiation. So for those who might be interested in that, it’s going to be called more than yes or no. So that’s going to be a deeper dive into what does consent mean, how do we do this? How do we not do it when we feel like not doing it? and so on? Very important. It’s

 

1:03:24

so hard. That’s because it’s everything. Yeah, yeah. I’m sorry, if I can jump in. One of the

 

Kate Monogamish Marriage  1:03:35

negative associations that people have with the word swinger is that consent is an important thing. And I think, you know, while there might be outliers, there might be some people who don’t really understand the importance of consent. Right, the vast majority of swingers really do get it. And so I think, you know, people tend to imagine that we’re just randomly jumping into beds, and anyone can watch anyone and it’s all cool. But that’s not how the world is. Now, if it ever was that way. We certainly embraced Tencent and have open conversations about, say, status. What are your limits, and, you know, those things happen in the swinger world. It’s not just

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  1:04:23

that’s, that’s what I’m thinking is that like, it seems to me, you know, I’ve had experiences for a couple of decades, not like I’ve never identified as a swinger, but I’ve had swinging experiences off and on for several decades. And it seems to me like I said, over the past decade, that consent has become far more of a focus in the swing community, then it was prior even even when you walk into a club consent is more forefront than it used to be. So that makes a big difference. To me, as somebody who, you know, I, if consent is a very big part of, you know, my kinky life, so it’s definitely a good thing as far as I’m concerned.

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  1:05:15

Like, the majority people lifestyle are so respectful, like it’s very just a very small amount of people that, that don’t respect that you how you are your sexual orientation, or whatever it is, or whether you want to play with them or not. For us, we found, we tell people how we play and they’re very respectful. So thank you for bringing that up. I don’t want to make it seem like you guys are just groping us and stuff like no respect, nobody wants to touch this.

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  1:05:42

That’s not true. Okay, right. No, kiss ass. I’m coming from a background of kink. BDSM being the main thing I’ve done. So and this is actually this is not even an ask this is a statement. So I have some perceptions from the people at those events kissed in the chat, could you maybe say if you know any of this conversation has given you more insight into swinging, maybe versus kink or BDSM? Or maybe versus the perceptions that you’ve been given or had previously because, you know, to me, the whole point of bringing so many different voices together from from non monogamy and different perspectives is specifically so that we can learn these things about people who do things differently from us. hoppers said and have you noticed a huge aversion to the word swingers? Or the concept of swinging from the young generation? Anyone? Does it seem like an age thing? Or?

 

Bob Our Naughty  1:06:53

No, I mean, for us, all our kids know what we do not explicitly generalization. Our conversations aren’t that in depth. We, and our oldest is 28. And our youngest is 18. And we didn’t we didn’t have any of them. Surprised or, you know? Oh, yeah. And you know, they, if they have boyfriends or girlfriends that come over to the house, we tell them to because we’re overweight.

 

Nikki Our Naughty  1:07:30

We don’t tell them. Our kids tend to warn them before they come here, because we’re just who we are. So I’m gonna say my house. And I’m not super explicit on anything. However, I can’t keep him under control at all. So what comes out of his mouth like I? It is what it is my brother, warn everyone that comes in our house. Yeah. That’s fair. That’s fair.

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  1:08:02

I think you know, I think that right now, a lot of like, I haven’t seen so many young people in swinger clubs. But I have seen and experienced a lot of young people creating swink stir, like, like hosted self hosted parties, where they’re not like super BDSM. And they’re not like super swingy. They’re like, a mix of all of the above. You didn’t like, whoo, this feels good. And we can hit each other to this is fabulous.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:08:40

stuff. We’ve some more of them and Hito lately, more young people in the last year or two, and what we found is they don’t particularly care for labels. Yes, yes.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:08:50

But they don’t necessarily combat it if you bring it to the table either and say this is who you are. They don’t they don’t find it offensive or confrontational in any way but they just don’t pull that word out of their back pocket.

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  1:09:02

I think I think that’s a that’s a that’s a thing that we’re seeing a lot and kink is well is you know, like they’re like, a lot of the older people are like,

 

1:09:12

You’re young tricksters get off my lawn. You can’t be dominant. Yeah. The young people are like, I’m gonna be what I won’t bring.

 

1:09:35

Yeah.

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  1:09:36

And I you know, I’m I love the energy. I think it’s great, you know, yeah, take it and mash it up. I don’t, I don’t give a fuck. And if you’re coming into my bedroom, you have to do it my way. But, you know, wherever you are. Do it seems

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  1:09:52

like I mean, LGBT, you couldn’t, you know, be out to be a gay teen and like, I mean, I was The gig scene in the 1960s. Luckily, we have many allies, like I mean, like the swingers or lifestyle or more, you know, bisexual and like fine with that, but and they’re voting for their they’re happy with like us having the same rights different, which we should. But it’s like, everyone looks to suffer like if it’s not my normal vanilla life. It’s weird. And it’s like it’s consensual it’s legal. It’s, you know, it’s fine. Like, and we’re happy. And yeah, I think it’s great. And, um, yeah. We talked about how we went to some King parties, but we felt like we were a little like dressing up because we didn’t feel like we were part of the. And we’re like, well, we felt a little weird, like not being like, Really?

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  1:11:08

You know what? I’ll coach you. We have a waters and we have fun with that. I’m concerned. That’s kinky, right? Like you? Yeah, yeah. Again, the labels thing. So weird. Weird. Rachel said, actually, Rachel has two things that I kind of want to pull up. One was really early on, and one just came through. And I think that both of these can be addressed kind of similarly. But the first one has a very specific question as well is, I would love to hear about everyone safer sex practices. I use barriers for oral sex. And folks look at me like I’m crazy. Then the second part is, the trouble is I’m finding most swingers I run into don’t unpack their thoughts and feelings and emotions in this way. So my first let’s let’s go to the safe sex thing. But to the other parts of it. It sounds to me like Rachel’s not finding the right group for her. Right, like the right tribe of swingers, for her, but safe sex. Prime stuff, whatever. Anyone?

 

Mallory Gordon  1:12:34

Yeah, potentially. I mean, and I hate to say it, I don’t think the use of you know, oral barriers are as common as we all like to believe, even in our community who’s at times maybe a little more aware or educated on, you know, protection. And if that, if that’s a must, then yes, you need to get that out there and find your tribe. Because,

 

Mickey Gordon  1:13:03

yeah, I would say it’s rare. I mean, all dams are rare. I think that there are people that have been vocal advocates for it. And I think it’s a good idea. I just seen it. And it’s something that’s probably that’s pretty damn rare. But I think that’s also rare. In the vanilla world, too. You go to a local bar, you hook up with somebody, and somebody says, Do you have a condom? They don’t ask you if you have a dental dam or anything of the right. And

 

Mallory Gordon  1:13:27

it goes back to you know, when we’re in our pre pubescent and everyone remembers, you know, the imagery of putting a condom on a banana but it ever anyone ever, like try to show you how to use a dental dam? Right. And, yeah, it’s just not something that we’re educated on. Unless we go seeking it out.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:13:43

Right? Not anybody did was laugh when I said, What if you’re disfigured banana? We just thought it was funny. Like, no, seriously? Yeah. No, it’s in regards to unpacking our emotions the way we do. You know, I think that’s 100% spot on. Everyone here is a content creator in one way or another, which means we’ve had to sit down and think about how we would articulate ourselves and our guests to those of you that are out there listening to what we create, or in the case of Mike and Kate, what they read what they write, and that’s my favorite blog, by the way, their blog is freaking fantastic. Yeah, exactly. Is this space, we’re good at it. I think we could be better and I think something if we don’t, as Nuki app, we put we don’t have responsibility to fix anybody else’s bad opinions or, or bad interpretations of how we live our lifestyle. But maybe we could help people talk more about it by talking freely with people that we do meet and hoping in hopes that they do the same thing. Right. Right. I think that that’s anyone else have something they want to

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  1:14:59

so I want to echo the same thing honestly that Mickey Mallory said, in our seven years of swinging, we’ve had one encounter and there’s the, like with oral sex. It’s the only time that we’ve ever used like, I think with saran wrap, and, and that was a conversation that happened. And it that it was unusual for us because that we had never, we had never experienced that.

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  1:15:22

But thankfully for them, because she’s like, I have this, like, the only way to do this safely is with that. Like, thank you for just, you know, for disclosing that right. Well, that’s the way to do it. Like but

 

Rachel Sapphic Swingers  1:15:35

generally speaking like that doesn’t that’s like that’s never anything think about from an oral sex perspective. Like that’s usually okay. Game on and then and then. And then obviously for sex people use condoms for sex toys, if we’re gonna share sex toys, we use condoms. Yeah. But that was that was just one time.

 

Tiff Sapphic Swingers  1:15:55

And we generally feel a little a little safer, because it’s just the women like, but that’s not that’s, you know, it’s kind of a false idea of like, super false.

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  1:16:07

So I’m thena brought up in pink, we have pink one to one classes, although they’re not mandatory. Do swinger communities often offer swinger? 101 for newbies? Yeah, they’re called orgies.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:16:28

Or, obviously kidding? Yes, there are those. There are some resources out there for that sort of thing. But more importantly, when and I know that there are there are kink events and lifestyle events and moose lifestyle events at lifestyle clubs, you get an introduction to the club from a couple that’s used to it that’s been there before. And that talks about things that matter. They’re particularly things like consent, there’s also in a lot of places, some great content, including provided by the National Coalition for sexual freedom, which are No means no and consent matters signs that a lot of clubs around the country are putting up. So if it doesn’t have a one on one, you do have kind of a swinger Sherpa. They can walk you through, you know how to get around that club, how to interact, who you know what to do, what not to do, where to get a drink. And of course, a reminder that No means no and consent matters. The rest of that content for swinger one on one probably falls on our shoulders as content creators to make sure that we’re putting stuff out there for people. And we put out messaging for people like the National Coalition for sexual freedom to say, hey, go read up on this. These are people that know what they’re talking about that have been educated on it. Because at the end of the day, a lot of us in the lifestyle content creator space, aren’t experts. We’ve just been around the block if you don’t, sure. Except if she’s an expert, not an expert.

 

Nookie Dating Kinky  1:17:59

Okay, um, I think that that’s valid. And I think that that’s something that you know, might be worth looking into a little bit more I do, it does feel like and I could be wrong, you know, because I’m not I’m so not immersed in it online swinger culture, and the way that I am immersed in online can culture, but it seems to be like there’s more sharing of experiences and swinger culture, and maybe not quite as much ado, Haitian. Like when I go search for books about swinging, like, there’s so much like, there’s a ton of books about kink, and not quite as many about like, how to swing. But maybe it’s just they’re not being found as well, which in and of itself could be potentially an issue. Like if I go out there and I say, How do I swing? Well, you know, and then you have to filter out the things that are like about swing sets, or whatever. And swing dancing. And like, I mean, and herein lies part of the problem, maybe it’s just more difficult to find them. But that’s something interesting. I do know, several people have been talking in the chat about having swingers show up at kink venues. And maybe they were little hands here, whatnot. I actually had that happen at my venue, there was, um, there were two couples that came one night and they seem to be very handsy and so on and so forth. And I spoke to a friend of mine who was a local swinger and had been for 30 years and he said, Oh, they’ve been kicked out of every swing club. They’ve gone to. Yeah, exactly, that kind of behavior. So that that could also be a thing they still identified as swingers, though and so there’s there’s that you know, now Okay, now, they’re coming over there seeing if they can get the sex in the place with the weirdos. I’m not saying that’s everybody. But you know, there’s definitely you know, some potential there. Yeah. Yeah, okay, well, we have hit our time limit. And how wonderful is this? You guys have been amazing. I knew you would be. Brian, please make sure and give everybody’s links in the chat room. You know, thank you. Thank you all, you all have been so freaking brilliant. And I really hope that those who came in here, you know, kind of wondering a little bit about swinging have gotten, you know, a real feel for what this is all about, from people who are doing this thing as opposed to, Hey, did you hear about them? They have parties. Yeah. And for those of you who are curious about this as a potential lifestyle, lifestyle choice or continuing it as a life style choice, maybe you learned a little bit more, and you thought that Oh, there’s a few more ways to do this than you thought before. So thank you. Thank you all very much. And thank all of you in the chat the attendees who’ve chosen to spend this time with us, because, you know, that’s a huge honor that you chose part of your afternoon. Thank you so much. Hi,

 

1:21:49

I’m Venus from the Venus cupholders podcast and I have a special message for all of the single ladies listening. What if you could have a loving, committed partner who wants to stay totally faithful to you, but who would love to see you have incredible experiences with others? It sounds too good to be true, right? It is true. You really can have it all and be loved, celebrated and even put on a pedestal. Learn more at Venus connections.com