Cuck YOU! – Exploring the world of Cuckolds & Hotwives with Cuckoldress Venus!

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Mickey & Mallory catch up with celebrated lifestyle blogger Cuckoldress Venus to discuss the intricacies of the Cuckold lifestyle, what it means to be a “Cuckoldress,” and the best way to spend a wedding night. Also, we catch up with Jeff James for another edition of “WWJD,” where we discuss some pointers on how to be a great 3rd wheel as a guy and some of the differences between hotwifing in real life vs the movies.

Intro: 00:00:48

Interview – Cuckoldress Venus: 00:15:54

WWJD – What would Jeff Do? – Joining a couple as a male in a hotwife situation: 1:03:57

Blog Posts on Cuckolding/Hotwifing

Cuckoldress Venus’ Blog
Refinery29 on Hotwifing
Refinery29 on Hotwifing from 2017
Thhe Incidental Hotwife Blog

Hearing impaired? This podcast is transcribed for your convenience.

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SE01E18 – Casual Swinger – Cuck YOU!

Thu, 9/2 9:57AM • 1:30:42

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

cuckold, porn, people, relationship, venus, couple, wife, lifestyle, cackling, hot, fucking, situation, person, question, woman, feel, sex, talk, monogamous, bit

SPEAKERS

Cuckoldress Venus, Mickey Gordon, Jeff James, Mallory Gordon

 

Mallory Gordon  00:17

Welcome to your casual swinger. If you’re under 18 the following podcast is not appropriate for you. The subjects and language are for mature audiences only. If you’re not mature in nature, just make sure you’re old enough to vote and we don’t take ourselves seriously ever. No guarantees given regarding the accuracy of any opinions or statements made on this podcast or website or a blog. It’s all in fun, folks. This isn’t Dr. Phil. Now consider yourself the listener properly advised. Hey, guys, you’re listening to casual swinger? This is Mallory.

 

Mickey Gordon  00:54

I’m pretty sure I’m still making

 

Mallory Gordon  00:57

I’m glad we’re we’re on the same page here.

 

Mickey Gordon  00:59

I struggled with that last episode.

 

Mallory Gordon  01:02

Right on well, cuckoo could chew and cook you you guys.

 

Mickey Gordon  01:05

Oh, I Am the Walrus.

 

Mallory Gordon  01:09

I was gonna use that as like a game at the end. So we’ll just have to like file that away. Now. We got to find an egg man. An egg man. No, we’re not even going to get into that bullshit today.

 

Mickey Gordon  01:20

Well, welcome to kick you Episode 18 of casual swinger. Can you believe we’ve done 18 of these fucking things already?

 

Mallory Gordon  01:27

Yes, and no, I mean, it’s like anything when you look back you’re like wow, it goes by so fast. And then you’re like wow, that’s a lot

 

Mickey Gordon  01:35

I want to see the highlight reel of our sex tape. Like of the like you know last God knows how many years we’ve been together can you imagine what that highlight reel looks like to become shot come shot come shot come shot.

 

Mallory Gordon  01:45

I think our mining doors would be totally different thing so yeah, cuz you just said come shot come shot come shot and I’m like, nope. What’s not sex if I don’t come so. Oh, is that how you justify it? That’s totally funny. I didn’t have sex with her while you were gone. I never got off it didn’t know doesn’t count. Right. And semantics, everyone and welcome

 

Mickey Gordon  02:06

to the world of semantics. So what’s going on in our world lately? Maybe?

 

Mallory Gordon  02:10

A lot of travel. We’re racking up some mileage here. Um, yeah, it’s been interesting both for vanilla work and play. So

 

Mickey Gordon  02:19

I think everybody knows we traveled this point right climate swing was our last one where we went from the beaches of Jamaica to the butt fuck cold of Iowa. And we’re not done your Yeah,

 

Mallory Gordon  02:29

  1. Okay, so I got stuck in the bomb cyclone,

 

Mickey Gordon  02:34

the cyclone? How many Bourbons have you had? For?

 

Mallory Gordon  02:40

I don’t know.

 

Mickey Gordon  02:41

But don’t get stuck in the mouse.

 

Mallory Gordon  02:43

I said What the fuck? How does it rain and be 50 degrees in the fucking morning and by noon? It’s a whiteout fucking Blizzard with hurricane force winds.

 

Mickey Gordon  02:52

Welcome to Denver, everybody. Shit. That’s why weed is recreational illegal. You have to be high to deal with the weather in Denver.

 

Mallory Gordon  03:00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, actually, everyone was closed. So that didn’t happen. But yeah, it was interesting. And then I’m off back to the Midwest this week. So while you guys are listening to this, I will be in a flyover state.

 

Mickey Gordon  03:15

Right. And I’ll be with the cuckolded dog in his Cone of Shame

 

Mallory Gordon  03:19

all poor baby he’s so pathetic

 

Mickey Gordon  03:21

Yeah, so your your art for this week for you guys for this episode is our dog who happens to be wearing a cone of shame. led his balls off this week. Yeah, he

 

Mallory Gordon  03:31

got he got fixed. He got neutered. And he’s just he’s so sad. Why be sad

 

Mickey Gordon  03:36

do if you cut my balls off? Let’s be honest.

 

Mallory Gordon  03:39

But like, he won’t stop licking his deck and his what used to be his balls. I know I just my heart bleeds for him a little Tell you what, I’d

 

Mickey Gordon  03:50

be the gayest guy in the history of gay guys if I could reach it, but I can’t.

 

Mallory Gordon  03:56

That’s okay, though. Cuz that would be like, that’s fine. No, yeah, it’s like masturbating at that point.

 

Mickey Gordon  04:01

I don’t know. I mean, not that I’ve tried recently, but I don’t think I mean

 

Mallory Gordon  04:05

if I could eat it like I probably would. But I think that falls under masturbating.

 

Mickey Gordon  04:09

I need a human size waffle iron that I can just like smash myself in that’s probably the best or maybe put a cow like fold. You told me I’m gonna get there.

 

Mallory Gordon  04:17

Okay, we’ve gone down a hill. Let’s get back to what we’re gonna talk about today. So cocking, holding, we talked to the coldness. We

 

Mickey Gordon  04:26

did an interview, we had an interview

 

Mallory Gordon  04:28

and I was thoroughly fascinated and like ding light bulb went off. I think we’ve been fucking around with cooking and didn’t even know it. Oh, see, I’m

 

Mickey Gordon  04:37

not sure about that. One.

 

Mallory Gordon  04:38

I mean, it’s it’s it’s stigmas. Is there there’s stigmas. Right and I think that’s our reservation to like really like talking about this more in depth which I’m sure you and I will offline. In that we do did cover that quite a bit like there is a taboo

 

Mickey Gordon  04:57

even talked about it in our segment today, with Is WWE JD? What would Jeff do love that guy? And we talked about hot waving and cooking. And so because he actually has some experience in the house, yeah,

 

Mallory Gordon  05:09

yeah. I mean, obviously he was important. And then he spent some time as a single guy in the lifestyle. And I love talking to him in that respect. Because if there was a demeanor in a single guy, he ultimately has, he’s the epitome of it. Right? He’s always looking for the respect, you know, regards the husband or the boyfriend, the wife, the girlfriend, making sure everyone’s on the same page. He’s even forward thinking like, in the segment, he talks about positioning for photos and videography. You can sure the guy gets

 

Mickey Gordon  05:45

his balls slamming his boyfriend. But you know, it’s funny. Porn doesn’t paint a good picture of the cutscene

 

Mallory Gordon  05:52

No, it really, it really doesn’t in practice, when, when we’re talking about it, and that’s why

 

Mickey Gordon  05:58

I thought we had to get Jeff in here to see okay, yeah, we don’t paint a good picture of this. But you know, I think that was kind of the point. That’s what these producers are after they want that domination. And that poor guy is sitting there looking like, a shriveled up little, you know, I’m not happy and she’s over there. And I can’t do anything about it.

 

Mallory Gordon  06:15

I’ve always looked at like, professionally produced porn right? aside for the parodies, which I find just funny, you know, whether it’s a planned Star Wars or guardians of the galaxy, or whatever it is, you’re just fucking entertaining except for the pirates one. That was actually that was actually very well done. We’ll get into that another time. But reviews from I look at it is a lot of that produce porn is like, it’s kind of a caricature on on sex and real practice. And it’s extreme. And it’s, it’s a performance, it’s like going to a play, and a lot of ways everything is very exaggerated, versus maybe how that would have transpired in real life. Yeah, and I think it means to be right because that it feeds a public that is looking for that extreme.

 

Mickey Gordon  07:04

Sure. So the number one search in porn is amateur. Right? Number one, that’s number one. People look for amateur mature

 

Mallory Gordon  07:12

or immature,

 

Mickey Gordon  07:14

and mature, but it’s they will give you different

 

Mallory Gordon  07:18

things. I’m

 

Mickey Gordon  07:18

just saying if you spell it wrong, you get a different thing. No, I’m

 

Mallory Gordon  07:21

telling you different things depending on where you position the last the IE, right? You get two different searches.

 

Mickey Gordon  07:29

Let me tell you how discerning guys with their dick in their hand are okay. Don’t care. You’re

 

Mallory Gordon  07:34

the fucking grammar police. So I learned this on a fluke. And I was like, dude, yeah, different subsets of amateur. An amateur. Oh,

 

Mickey Gordon  07:44

you blame me for going down a hole. But you did and then Off you go. But you know, it’s we talked about the number one search is amateur the number two search just for everybody’s edification. cuckold. Number two, search in terms of kinks on porn engines.

 

Mallory Gordon  07:59

So interesting, because I would have thought I was immature. Plus, no, I would have thought it was lesbian. I would have thought it was something that, you know, basically, I look at.

 

Mickey Gordon  08:11

So there’s Yeah, so basically, your personal predilections is what your

 

Mallory Gordon  08:16

preferences are thinking pretty mainstream. Oh, very. shaking my head. No, everyone.

 

Mickey Gordon  08:21

They’re not. Nope, nope. So there’s this blog refinery 29. And they actually had a quote that I liked. It said this fascinating subset is swinging and kink is the second most commonly searched term by heterosexual porn users on English language search engines. And as we know, English language is apparently the only one that counts. But according to this blog, researcher, Justin lay Miller found in a survey of 4000 men that 58% of them had fantasies about sharing their partner with other men or being cooked. So that’s a quote, we’ll throw that in the show notes. But you know, that’s interesting. So does that mean is it automatically cooking?

 

Mallory Gordon  08:58

Exactly. If

 

Mickey Gordon  08:59

you share your wife it’s not so we had cuckold just Venus on Yeah. And cupholders. Venus is smoking is super

 

Mallory Gordon  09:06

cool. I didn’t totally stocked her Insta and her Twitter.

 

Mickey Gordon  09:10

Yeah. And she does exactly this. She lives a consensually non monogamous lifestyle in the open. She says, I’m not going to be monogamous. I’m going to cut you I’m going to go out and I’m going to do some dirty shit. And I’m gonna talk about it. She blogs about it. She blogs about her experiences. And she’s unapologetically a cuckold dress meaning a woman that participates in the cook holding lifestyle. So I made a list of some marks of a hot wife versus some marks of a Cocker ecologist relationship that show what some of the differences are.

 

Mallory Gordon  09:41

I like a cold is much better than Kuchar. I think

 

Mickey Gordon  09:44

mother Kuchar father Kuchar,

 

Mallory Gordon  09:46

Joe Cocker.

 

Mickey Gordon  09:49

So what is a hot wife a hot wife has sex with guys. Right and the guy is monogamous. The guy is only with her, but a hot one. You know, it’s funny because I think we’ve done the hot wifing thing, right? Because I and we are not monogamous. We’re both consensually non monogamous, but there have been instances where you’ve gone up, trotted off and done your own thing. And that doesn’t make me a cut by the porn standards by any measure that wasn’t sitting in the corner with my dick in a cage

 

Mallory Gordon  10:19

now and there’s no denial involved. I think that’s where that that’s that gray area. Right. So they talk about it later.

 

Mickey Gordon  10:26

Yeah, take some pictures and video. Right? And maybe we’re not talking about an exchange of power. That’s very bi directional in a hot wife scenario, right? where, you know, maybe, you know, you’re like, yeah, I’ll be back later. I’m gonna go have some fun. You’re like, cool, I’m gonna go to the pool or the bar. I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna move on. Do whatever. But I would say that in a housewife scenario, the male’s a little more dominant, the male not dominant over the female, just a more dominant personality. And maybe it’s just as simple as you going out and getting your groove on. Right. I mean, maybe, yes. because traditionally, cuckolding is the guy is, you know, he’s been he’s been completely stripped of his power and his dominance.

 

Mallory Gordon  11:11

Yeah, like, in porn. Oh, absolutely. at porn. And in fact, I think I’m going to go do some research. Yeah, cuz I want to say that. I, I’m guilty. I’ve searched it on, you know, the, the websites that we frequently use for, you know, digital pornography. Yeah. You know, and that’s kind of my first moment of exposure to cockayne or cuckolding was definitely online and watching a porn. So I’d never seen the word written or spoken of before. And with that, keep a stereotype. Right?

 

Mickey Gordon  11:49

Yeah, I think there are some stereotypes that come out of it. But in the real world, the marks of a cut relationship are not, you know, him sitting in the corner with a with a khaki, john. It’s more like he’s helping her prepare for the event. Right, maybe shaving her legs or picking up her outfit? Or maybe getting the hotel room or planning their dinner. I mean, that’s more of a cook scenario in the real world. He’s a little more submissive, maybe it crosses over into BDSM. Right, maybe,

 

Mallory Gordon  12:17

you know, it’s maybe there’s that power exchange. Yeah, like he’s tied up or

 

Mickey Gordon  12:22

Yeah, there’s a power exchange that makes it more cuckolding and ARCA coldness. Venus talks more about this in his interview, you guys are going to hear here in a little bit about that kind of exchange of control. But I do think it’s a misnomer to suggest that cuckolding means humiliation. I don’t think that’s fair.

 

Mallory Gordon  12:42

No, no, I I have to agree, especially after talking to Venus. I mean, it’s, it could be part of it. And I think Jeff made some good points in the last segment of the show about it, you know, maybe like, grain over crossing over into like a BDSM or sub Dom roll. Yeah, I would have to know more to really like put a vote in but again, then we’re siloing and compartmentalizing and then giving labels out there but right. I think it’s it’s interesting to know the different dynamics.

 

Mickey Gordon  13:19

So first of all, how can how in control is a cuckold dress control? Alright, the animal control? no drama, no drama. No. So how in control is a cuckold dress? I think she’s very in control. If you I mean, me, the highlight of the interview was how Venus wants to spend her wedding. Oh, my goodness.

 

Mallory Gordon  13:41

Oh, wow. Like, home fucking run, right?

 

Mickey Gordon  13:45

I’m like, wow, I think like bucked up on

 

Mallory Gordon  13:47

that like top that.

 

Mickey Gordon  13:49

I don’t think you can. I don’t think anyone can. It’s just amazing. So when you guys listen to this interview, think about how she wants to spend her wedding day and think about how in control. She is. It was just just crazy. But why did we bring you a cold dress? Where are we talking about hot wifing in in Coca Cola. So

 

Mallory Gordon  14:06

I was I turned on by Coulter’s

 

Mickey Gordon  14:09

me because you kind of want to be one, maybe a little

 

Mallory Gordon  14:11

I think she just turned me on. Well, she was

 

Mickey Gordon  14:14

I think that’s where it starts. And her laugh was infectious to very dig this. But, you know, here on casual swinger, we represent all of the lifestyle, not just part of it. Right, we really do get into every aspect of the lifestyle, whether we participate in it or not, we’re gonna cover it. So we’re going to have you know, folks on here that talk about things and, you know, maybe push boundaries a little bit. So if this isn’t your thing, we apologize, but maybe Listen, and maybe you’ll find out that it’s got more in common with your thing than you think it does. Yeah,

 

Mallory Gordon  14:45

different strokes for different folks. Sure. And kind of taking the stereotype or scary out of the taboo. Oh, taking the Boo at a taboo.

 

Mickey Gordon  14:55

Take the we can do that in October. That’s what that’ll be our October episode taking the Boo out of your tab. malaria nobody steal that shit from us. That’s happening. But last but not least, exploring kinks is fun. It is it is. It’s cool. And, you know, let me put in your butt. That’s a kick

 

Mallory Gordon  15:13

every once in a while.

 

Mickey Gordon  15:14

There you go. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the interview with cuckoldry Venus, where she tells us a little bit more about what it means to be a culture. It’s more about the cuckolding lifestyle. And of course, more about hot wifing which is, you know, the wife going out and having a little bit of fun. We think this was a cool interview. We think you guys are going to enjoy it and we’ll be back right after this. You’ve been listening to casual swinger.

 

Mallory Gordon  15:55

Welcome back to casual swinger, everyone. You got Mallory here. And I’m Mickey. And we have a guest for you today.

 

Mickey Gordon  16:02

We do this is a special guest. I feel like you know, this is something we’ve kind of done a little bit more lately, but I really like it because we keep getting badass guests.

 

Mallory Gordon  16:10

We really do. We’ve been so fortunate. And of course, we’re converses. So we want to share it with everyone out there.

 

Mickey Gordon  16:16

Yeah, that’s a big word. And it’s probably gonna be a big word for purposes of this show. So who’s that guest? Who’s that person we’ve got for you today? It’s a pretty lady by the name of cuckoldry is Venus. Venus. How are you, madam?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  16:29

How are you? I’m great. Thanks for having me on the show. Oh, no,

 

Mickey Gordon  16:33

this is awesome. Thank you for making the time for us on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. It’s about I don’t know. 75 degrees where we are. I don’t know. What part of the country you’re in. But I bet it’s pretty there, too. Maybe not.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  16:46

actually really beautiful. Really beautiful today here in Canada.

 

Mickey Gordon  16:50

Okay, you’re Canadian. So that’s gonna be a fun conversation. Yeah, no hits. And what brings us to this conversation with you a little bit. Speaking of Canadians is Mallory had a run in with a Canadian at Hito a couple weeks ago?

 

Mallory Gordon  17:04

I did I did. I do have a I am drawn to Canadians. There’s something about them their aura or something that I just yeah, I can pick them out of a crowd.

 

Mickey Gordon  17:15

Yeah. And so yeah, she did. And that little run in led to a bit of a hot wife experience. Yes. Which is very similar to the cuckold thing that you take part in. So I want to introduce people to you, I want you to be able to tell our listeners a little bit more about what it means to be a cuckold dress, but Venus do us a favor, introduce yourself to our listeners before we get started.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  17:41

Yes, sir. Um, so my name is Nina. I’m from Vancouver, Canada. And I got into the tech holding lifestyle. I was introduced to it by a guy about four years ago. And ever since I’ve been completely in love with it. I started a blog about it, I write about how you know my feelings and frustrations about it. And I just want to share that with everybody. So that’s what I’ve been doing. And I love to meet people who are curious about their lifestyle who are already in their lifestyle. And I love to meet couples who are in successful relationships like this. So it makes me you know, excited to meet these kind of people. And I’m passionate about it.

 

Mickey Gordon  18:24

That is so epic. So let’s talk about the coding for a minute. So what is a code in conversely, what’s a cold dress? Tell us kind of what these two things are?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  18:38

Okay, so there’s, it has to do with non monogamy obviously, and but it’s very one sided. So in a consulting relationship, the, the man is totally faithful to his wife or girlfriend. And she like she is definitely not sexually faithful. She’s open about it. And, and he prefers it that way. She prefers it that way. He really likes that dynamic. And so the she they kind of feed off of each other in that way. So it seems kind of very unfair to some people who don’t understand it, but really, it’s mutually beneficial to both of them. So that’s what calculating is. And with calculating there is some sort of power imbalance where there’s always some form of sexual denial involved. That could be just very, very subtle, or it can be extreme. So there’s like a really wide spectrum there. And so to be a cackle, just you really kind of have to be into that part of it. And a lot of women are naturally like that at first, but they sort of almost all of them tend to sort of gravitate towards that and feeling really comfortable in that role.

 

Mallory Gordon  19:54

Fascinating. Now I’m going to speak from like the stereotype, right? You know, before We were in the lifestyle, you know, the term cooking or cook holding was kind of viewed as a negative term almost like slanderous when you’re referring to a couple or a guy. So and as I’m learning, you know, many guys find it, you know, had found it as a negative term, do you feel it’s negative, like out there in the wild?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  20:23

Yeah, there’s definitely the perception is definitely that a cuckold is someone who is like a doormat who’s treated with disrespect. And he’s weak, and he’s not masculine. And he’s something to be pitied. And unfortunately, I feel like mainstream porn kind of feeds into that and portrays this lifestyle as that, which is really unfortunate, because it’s just completely wrong. And it’s not accurate, to the most part at all. So that makes it really difficult because I’m trying to sort of make people understand that, actually, that’s not it at all. And so there’s a lot of teaching that has to go on. And

 

Mallory Gordon  21:10

absolutely, if you’re getting your education on sex from porn, there’s a whole nother level of conversation.

 

Mickey Gordon  21:17

That, yeah, I mean, she doesn’t want me to spit in her mouth. So, yeah, yeah, I mean, as a guy, I think I have seen a lot of people, you know, talk about cooking, or cook holding as a as a negative thing. And there’s a lot of other terms, maybe they get used as synonyms for cooking, like hot wifing, for example. Except cooking, maybe maybe includes some humiliation, especially in porn, you know, tying the guy up and mocking him saying his is so much bigger, blah, blah, that sort of thing. That’s definitely a porn thing. Not a real life thing. So tell me, are there other terms that go hand in hand with this? And the main one that comes to mind? Hot wifing? How’s that different?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  22:06

Yeah, I mean, for me, my definition of hot whitening is I mean, there’s a lot of overlap. It’s so there’s some confusion as to, you know, what’s cuckold? And what’s hot lighting? How are they different? And I find that hot lighting is He’s faithful. She’s not However, there is no sort of power imbalance. There’s a very equal power dynamics there. So it’s, you know, it could be the husband or boyfriend who is deciding who she sleeps with, or what she does. And when she does it, or, whereas in proposing, it’s all about her, she’s the one who’s in charge. She’s the one who’s calling the shots. And she’s the one who will appease and deny him. So it was calculating, it literally is all about her knees that come first. Whereas hot wiping it’s the two of them together, they have a very robust sex life as it is there’s no denial, it’s just that he enjoys seeing her with other guys.

 

Mallory Gordon  23:08

Gotcha. Because I’ve always kind of seen looking deeper into this, you know, it’s it’s like comparing a square and a rectangle, right? Right. Square is a rectangle. But a rectangle isn’t a square, right? And I’ve always kind of thought that maybe hot waving is like the gateway into caffeine. Have you seen that? Yeah, it is

 

Mickey Gordon  23:30

a gateway drug. So now that you

 

Mallory Gordon  23:36

know, we’re up to speed, we appreciate that our listeners up to speed on the differentiators. Can you tell me what a coldness is? And let’s talk about your role.

 

Mickey Gordon  23:47

Yes, let’s get dirty,

 

Cuckoldress Venus  23:49

shall I like it so full of themselves. Castles is so basically for me, my idea of a woman who really enjoys being a tackle dress is someone who has an insatiable sexual appetite for sure. And really kind of embraces that roll of a sled and I use that word as a term of endearment. And something to be proud of. And, and it really enjoys that it has no shame in that. So that’s I mean, if you have if you feel kind of like this shame about to do with other guys and stuff like that, then is probably not going to feel comfortable and he will have a capital dress. But yes, it really also separate in your life, the men that are in your life. So your husband or boyfriend is the one who gives you love and affection and is your everyday life partner and you’re going to be with him till the end of time. Whereas these guys who you’re sleeping with, simply just for sex and so there has to be that clear separation there. If there isn’t, that can be really tricky. And that’s when you get things happening like the wife is, is leaving her husband for the sky that she sleeps with. And, and I think that there’s always a risk of that happening, we should fall in love with someone else. But I think it’s the same way risks that’s been swinging or even just a regular, monogamous marriage. So you have to have that kind of separation of roles in your life. So each guy has this own kind of gives you a little bit of what you need in your life. And you have to be okay with that. So, and a couple just like I said, you have to be kind of comfortable, or at least feel willing to learn to get comfortable in that role of being somewhat Dom dominant to your partner. And that can be like, people when I say that people are especially women automatically think about like collars and leashes, and like wet spankings and stuff like that, not not what I’m talking about. Although if you want to go there, go for it. But I’m just talking about the little subtle kind of teasing that you would give to your partner like sending him pictures, with cute little quotes or something like that, while he’s at work, or sending him a video, like a little teaser of a video. When he’s at home, looking after the kids or whatever, like it’s all of these fun little things that you do as a technologist that you wouldn’t necessarily do as a hotline. So you have to be comfortable with that it’s a bit of an art form, and you kind of learn as you go.

 

Mallory Gordon  26:39

I love it. It’s it’s definitely it’s all about empowerment, in many ways. And yeah, I’m fascinated. Fun.

 

Mickey Gordon  26:53

I see myself having like, Major, like questions over here now, like, where are you? What do you mean, you’ll tell me later? All right, I guess I’m just gonna go over here and sit in the corner and touch myself. So what they do in porn?

 

Mallory Gordon  27:07

Well, it sounds the same. Right? That sounds very symbiotic. Right? Because the part of cooking is the the guy he’s a he’s a willing participant on it exactly.

 

Mickey Gordon  27:19

Well, and like anything else in the lifestyle. This is, and this is kind of why we wanted to do this show. This isn’t different than then swinging are three ways or four ways or six ways, right? Everybody? As long as it’s about us, right? Everyone in any relationship should be doing things that are mutually beneficial, that benefit the relationship and benefit each other. And if he gets off on you getting yours, by all means rock on, have a good time.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  27:45

Right? You know, and I know I’m just gonna say I, I feel like most people when they think about calculating, especially in hot wifing, they feel like it’s so one sided. It’s all about her sexual experience when I’m like, No, actually, that’s not true. When she’s with this guy that she’s talking. She’s thinking about her husband, she’s thinking about her boyfriend, and it’s for if he’s there watching, it’s that kind of emotional dance that’s going on silently between the two of them. That turns her on. That’s the reason why she’s there. And so it’s Yes, she’s there to have sex with a guy who’s not her husband, who is being denied in the corner or whatever. But that is just a small part of it. It’s it is an actual sexual experience for the both.

 

Mallory Gordon  28:37

You know, I kind of feel like we’ve been talking a little bit without even realizing it. And because what you just said, the things that I’m doing with another man, I’m already thinking ahead and thinking about my husband and what that’s going to be like and what I’m going to tell him about when we reconnect so interesting. Yeah. That’s a big part of it. It is

 

Mickey Gordon  29:01

Yeah, and from that perspective, it certainly sounds that way from my perspective, like I was pulling the fucking lawn I wasn’t in the corner waiting. But I guess everybody’s self Susan their own way. Me I’m like, fuck this grass. It’s going down.

 

Mallory Gordon  29:16

It looks great.

 

Mickey Gordon  29:19

You know? You know, as far as being a coder, she said, You’ve been doing this like for years. So how did you get started? Like, yes. Or tell us about that relationship? Tell us, you know about the radioactive spider that bid Venus and made her a queen. So

 

Cuckoldress Venus  29:37

I think I’ve naturally been a cackle just my whole life. But it was like, I honestly did not know that this kind of relationship existed. And so I thought, I’m never going to find something that I truly want because no guy will ever sign up for this. That’s what I thought in my mind. And that’s Part of the reason why I am hoping to reach more women out there because I want them to know this does exist, you can have your cake and eat it too. You can be so called selfish and be in an incredibly happy and loving relationship. So I started out funny enough in the swinging community about a little over 10 years ago. And I was in that community, I was so drawn to that community because there are so many groups of like, I found everybody to be a fantastic person, just kind and generous and non judgmental, and especially for as a woman that’s so important to be able to explore your sexuality and a community of people who are not going to judge you. And so I did that I spent lots of time and many experiences and met over many years, doing all sorts of really fun, amazing things, like, just incredible. You know, threesome forces, like orgy is like everything, I did it all. And I loved it. And it was great. But like everything, done it, but I know it was, for me, that was amazing. And I honestly wish that every woman in her lifetime gets at least one opportunity to really let themselves go like that in a safe environment. Because that’s priceless. I feel like, and so, but I found like dating in that lifestyle to be a challenge, because I wanted to be able to do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted with whoever I wanted. And I found that any guides that I dated wanted to have a lot of rules, boundaries and limits, which is understandable and swinging. There’s always, you know, there’s always rules, boundaries and limits with couples, it’s just the way it is. And so I struggled with that, because I just didn’t want that. And I felt guilty for it. Because I thought that’s so selfish. Like, you’re never gonna find a guy who’s just gonna not be jealous for you to do whatever you want with whoever you are. And so I felt kind of sad about it. And then all of a sudden, I met with this guy on Tinder and on my Tinder profile, I said, I have no intention of being monogamous. So you have to be okay with that. And that’s all said on there. And I guess he saw that and he thought, oh, maybe this girl would be, you know, interested in cackling he, we got along really well. We clicked right away. And then he slowly just started asking more and more about, you know, me being with other people. And I just assumed that he, I don’t know, just got turned on by it or whatever. I had no idea what it was. I had no idea with consulting was a hotline thing. Never heard of it. Because heard of it one. The term of once in my life. didn’t really understand that. And but the more that we talked about it holy set, I was just like, Siri, this is what you want. You love this, like, Oh my God, this was so perfect for me. Like I just had

 

Mallory Gordon  33:23

all these sevens lined up, right? Lights on off.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  33:26

Yeah, yeah. And I felt like for the first time in my life, I can literally just be me and someone totally 100% love me just to that. And I was like, wow, this is incredible. So he introduced me to touch holding. And unfortunately, that didn’t last It was a long distance relationship. It had a lot of challenges around that. So after that ended, I was just on admitted on a mission to find something like that again. So that’s how it all started for me.

 

Mallory Gordon  33:59

So I got a question for you. And this is kind of like, off off the rails a little bit here. So you went ahead and you you put that out the you know, the non monogamy right on your Tinder profile? Yeah. And after this first relationship, is that something you consistently do? Do you also include like that you’re looking for a cook style relationship? Or, like, how do you do that we have quite a few friends that are single. And I’m speaking from the female perspective, that are struggling with announcing that to the people they’re dating or prior to the people they’re dating. So can you kind of tell me what that looks like? And what you do

 

Mickey Gordon  34:37

that actually was a listener question.

 

Mallory Gordon  34:38

That was a listener question. We got a listener question. Yeah. And

 

Mickey Gordon  34:41

we’re struggling. I’m struggling as a non monogamous female to have this conversation. We’ve been waiting for the right person to ask this question. You just stumbled into our life

 

Mallory Gordon  34:50

You really did.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  34:53

I love this question. So happy to answer it for you. Okay, so obviously, it’s Really important, I feel like to bring it up right away with anybody, because I subscribe to the idea that to live your best, most fulfilled life, you need to find someone who fits you in every aspect of your life, including your sex life. So to fall in love with someone is, is great. And it’s fabulous if they work with, you know, you know, they get along well with everyone in your life, it’s fabulous. But if they don’t meet what you need sexually, then it’s just not going to work out. So for me, I bring it up right away. In fact, on my Tinder profile, it does I actually say, in one part of it, I’m looking for a couple’s relationship. And then after that sentence, I said, Yes, you heard that right. Or you read that, right? It really is a beautiful relationship dynamic. So I made sure I put that in there. And surprising, doesn’t scare off a lot of people.

 

Mallory Gordon  35:59

Well, and you’re in a Library’s you’re, you’re you’re taking the veil away, right? You’re just putting yourself out there because, you know, transparency equals trust and a lot of ways, right. And if you’re just up front from the get go, you’re weeding out a lot of, you know, wasted time and energy on both sides. So I love that advice.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  36:17

Yeah. And so I personally, I don’t feel that there’s any shame in this kind of relationship. And I shouldn’t be embarrassed or shameful for, for wanting this, or, or enjoying this. So maybe I’m unique in that way. I don’t feel embarrassed to talk to people about it. And the way I talk to them about it is in a very normal way, I don’t approach it, approach it as if it’s something strange or that they might be shocked. I just said like, Hey, this is this is my what I really like, and it’s awesome. Let me tell you how amazing it is. It’s really beautiful. And it’s incredible. It’s not what you think it is. And so when I approach it like that to people, they are usually at least curious to learn more, it might not be for them. And I acknowledge that right away. Look, it’s probably not going to be for you. But

 

37:12

so it sounds

 

Mickey Gordon  37:16

Yeah, it sounds to me, like maybe confidence plays a big part in this right now. So confidence in two areas, right? First of all, confidence in yourself that this is what you want, and that you’re willing, maybe, and have the confidence to, to save this relationship isn’t right for me, because I need this, I want this. And so if I if I do tell you the truth about this, and I’m honest, and I say this is who I am, this relationship may end because I’m looking for this. Right? That’s a confidence. That’s a major, major leap of faith for some people, and maybe that’s what our listener was trying to say is that this leap of faith that I have to take that this person may not go for it, that scares me. But I don’t think there’s any way around that. Is there Venus? Like I mean, you have to be confident yourself and confident that that’s what you want.

 

Mallory Gordon  38:05

Yeah. And tackle that fear of not being accepted by everyone, right, or having, you know, different wants and needs in your life.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  38:12

Yeah, it’s so true. And a lot of people will go, I think, for a long time with living in the cut closet, I call it so they’re lost in the cut closet. Love though, they’re just a little too scared to come out. And it’s terrifying. And what if my, what if this person hates me for it? What if they think they disrespect me because of it or whatever, there’s always one. And it’s scary. And it’s just, ya know, it’s just like anything else? Whether you’re coming out, as, you know, Paulie, or gay or bi or whatever. It’s like, it’s scary for a lot of people. But you do have to have, you’ve got to have courage to be able to do it. Sure. So either bad or you just gonna stay locked in the closet forever?

 

Mickey Gordon  38:57

No doubt, yeah. Locked in the closet. So tell us a little bit, because we made the reference a little bit earlier, that it’s a little like being dominant. Right. So how is being a cold dress different than being a DOM? I mean, is or is someone calling you mistress? I mean, how’s that work?

 

Mallory Gordon  39:15

Yeah. And is there any, like crossover their power transfer, right?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  39:20

Yeah, and there’s a lot of mixed up between the two because, and I understand why because, like, there’s what we call femme DOM, where it’s like a female domination. And there are relationships like that, that do include cackling as part of that, but it’s just like literally one aspect of it and there’ll be other things that other kind of BDSM stuff that is involved in those kind of relationships with cackling I find the main turn on the main kind of sexual motivator and the relationship is coupled in aspects. So that in itself is kind of it overpowers everything else in the relationship. So with being dominance is it is kind of like, we’re talking about empowerment earlier. But it is like putting a woman up on a pedestal. And she demands that. But in a way that still very loving, and she knows that that’s what he wants. So this is not about treating someone with disrespect. And this is not about treating someone like they’re beneath you in a very negative way or anything like that. This is simply a dynamic that both of you enjoy.

 

Mallory Gordon  40:39

Love it and actually brings me to this next question, because we’ve talked about like jealousy, right in the lifestyle. Does that play a factor in cooking? And is it any different?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  40:53

I love this question. is so great. Yes, this is the best question right here because and I love to explain this part, because a lot of people don’t understand this at all. This goes along with the misunderstandings about consulting in general. And that this is this poor guy who’s sitting in the quarter, and he’s just suffering, watching his wife have sex with someone else. There is some form of jealousy there in cackling that I’ve because this is, I mean, obviously, I’m staring at myself. But this is what tucks up pull me and they’ve explained it in detail. To me. There’s a form of jealousy, but it’s not like jealousy that you are familiar with. This is what I call cuckold anger. And what that is, is this kind of emotional mix of like jealousy. being anxious or excited, being turned on being nervous, it’s like this big soup of emotions all together. And that’s what a cut feels. So in some ways, it’s uncomfortable in some ways. It’s like, extremely erotic feeling. So it’s not like normal jealousy, like you would, you’re familiar with that causes kind of insecurities and unsure of, you know, what your partner’s thinking. It’s not at all like that. It’s actually something entirely different. And I think that’s what makes a cat an actual cut is that they feel that way. Whereas someone who’s not a CAD, would not feel that way they would feel jealous and angry, they will feel is a cure. They’re not enjoying it whatsoever.

 

Mallory Gordon  42:38

Right? Right. And because, you know, again, there’s a flavor out there for everyone in that kind of brings us to, you know, your blog here, you know, reaching out to, you know, females especially, but you know, this community to talk about it and take the taboo away and have an open forum and discussion about all these, you know, in interests. I can’t see it. Interested at ease,

 

Mickey Gordon  43:03

intricacy in your mouth and out for you

 

Mallory Gordon  43:12

to speak proper English, not just American, so please forgive me. Miss failing, failing miserably, miserably. But back to your blog. I mean, that’s kind of the the premise of it, right?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  43:25

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I first sat down to write my very first post, I mean, I’ve never written a blog before, I had no idea what I was doing. And I honestly didn’t think anybody was gonna read it. I still don’t know how people found it. But I just wanted to be able to let other women hopefully learn about what this amazing thing that I had found, because I had no idea it existed. And it’s not like I was living in a hole somewhere. I was in the cleaning community here in Vancouver. And I was so I just thought, Well, I didn’t know about it. There’s probably a lot of other women that don’t know about it either. So that was my motivation. And so in.

 

Mickey Gordon  44:07

And so with your blog, obviously, people find you and they’re like, Oh, I have so many questions, so they probably email you right? I imagine your social media is pretty busy, not just your Twitter. What’s the first and most common question that prospective Cox or cuckold dresses have? Right? So? Are they wives that are messaging you husbands that are messaging you and is it different? Do they ask the same question?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  44:35

It’s 95% men who are reaching out to me and the most, it’s usually one of the same 50 questions that I get. But the most common question that I get is how do I get my girlfriend or wife into this? So when cut holding and pot lysing most it’s very uncommon to have someone like myself, who is looking for a relationship to start out this way, most tuck and hot wifing couples are getting into it, after they’ve already been, you know, in a relationship together for some time or started out in springing or whatever. So it’s usually one partner, that brings it up to the other and nine times out of 10. It’s the guy who brings it up that he, he actually really wants this, but he’s scared. Or he brought it up and it didn’t go well or he brought it up and She’s ignoring him and or whatever. So this is the most common question that I get is how do I get my girlfriend or wife into this? And if I knew the answer to that, I would be a millionaire. I’m pretty sure because seems like everybody wants to know.

 

Mickey Gordon  45:49

You know, honestly, as casual swinger, that’s probably the most common question we get to we get, how do I get my wife into swinging? How do I get my wife to do this? Or how do I get my husband to do this? And very rarely Is it a woman that asked that question. But the the next question I would have is, in this is, you know, not something we’ve discussed. But why is it that we feel like we have to get our significant other to do anything? Shouldn’t we just be honest about what we want and what we’re feeling and what we’re thinking? And then ask them? How that makes them feel right? Because you don’t know when you’re scared. fear, uncertainty, and doubt play a role in everything we do in relationships, because you’re always afraid that maybe that person isn’t going to view what you said positively. But if it’s who you are, you have to have confidence, right? And say, I’m interested in this. What do you think? I think that’s how that conversation has to go. In order for it to be successful. You can’t say, I want you to, I need you to be I that you’re not good because that that immediately makes the other person feel like they’re not good enough that they’ve been doing something wrong, but you need something that isn’t them. What do you think Mallory,

 

Mallory Gordon  46:56

I have to agree with you, because what you’re doing is projecting at that point and saying, This is who I am. And this is my mold, and you may not fit into it. So I need you to your communications and art form. And a lot of people are scared of it. And it’s it’s draw, it’s driven by our own insecurities. Will they not accept me? Because I feel this way? Will they judge me? Because I feel this way?

 

Mickey Gordon  47:18

Yeah, it’s I think that’s huge. Do you I mean, when you have those conversations, Venus, I mean, how do you approach it? I mean, you just tell them good fucking luck, or do you have an answer for him?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  47:30

No, I mean, I try to get some information about the background and what’s going on in their relationship a little bit. And then, depending on that, I’ll, I’ll give them some advice. But I mean, it’s just, you know, I wish I could help them more. I wish there was something more that I could do. Other than just ask, you know, maybe she would like to read my blog. Maybe he would like to hear what it’s like from a woman’s perspective. And please don’t let her go and watch any porn that’s out there. Because

 

Mickey Gordon  48:01

porn is gonna fuck you over only

 

Mallory Gordon  48:02

the hot pizza got me every time we got a delivered, right?

 

Mickey Gordon  48:07

Fix the fucking sink. What kind of plumber fixes?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  48:13

Yeah, so I definitely don’t let her watch any of that shit, because it’s just horrible. Well, it’s calculating anyway.

 

Mickey Gordon  48:23

Are you? You said you were in the lifestyle before and you were consensually non monogamous. So today, are you? Are you still in the lifestyle? I mean, they were you just pretty much all embracing? I mean, obviously, you’re not monogamous. But is it? I mean, are you still doing the lifestyle swinging thing?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  48:41

Um, no, not really. I still have a lot of friends in that community and spend time with them. avi

 

48:48

are wonderful little

 

Cuckoldress Venus  48:49

friends. I think it’s amazing. Like, I just yeah, I still like to go to some parties and stuff like that. The private kind of house parties. Those are always fun. Also does some meet and greets sometimes. But I mean, I’ve kind of become like the resource persons for hot wife and cackling within that community. So couples who I’ve known for years are now coming to me and asking me about like, oh, we’re kind of curious about this, like, what should we, you know, do and stuff like that. So, and so that’s fun. That’s great. I love it. I love that part of it.

 

Mallory Gordon  49:28

Oh, the community is great. They’re so supportive, and they actually embrace you know, the differentiators inside of it. Right? Because there’s all this crossover. You have someone who’s got a resource like that. You’re invaluable, and you’re celebrated. I love it. So yeah, my next question, do you have any other like, alter kinks, aside from talking that you are into or experiment with?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  49:55

A good question. Turn on Audible. Like, is there anything else that turns me on? I do like chastity. And that kind of fits into more of the femme Dom kind of world. And that’s where like a guy with a little cage that overtop of his cock and it’s like locked up like that. You know, it’s a very, very long time to figure out. Yeah, I, it took me a really long time to figure out exactly what that was all about. I had no idea. And so a good friend of mine, I met him and he told me all about it. And after that, I was quite curious about it, and then learn to love it over time. And so that it’s just a nice form of sexual denial. A nice little tool that you can use for that. It seems really harsh and freaks out a lot of guys. Like hell no. I can’t imagine it’s so funny. Like the knee jerk reaction from every guy is just like, Oh, god, no, no, I could never

 

Mallory Gordon  51:05

do just about anything like anything but my penis. Oh, no, no.

 

Mickey Gordon  51:10

Nobody puts baby in the corner. Did you call it baby? up? Baby arm maybe? No, my. My name for mine is the bald Avenger.

 

Mallory Gordon  51:25

So mature.

 

Mickey Gordon  51:27

Everybody’s got a name. We did this thing in Hito. When we throw parties down there, I jumped into a jump in the pool and go around and meet people at a game is called make me laugh. And I asked people you know her name for his penis. And so I go around the pool and ask that and people give me all kinds of crazy names. But nobody’s ever like all the vendors minds.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  51:48

But yeah, I do. I do like chess to be I don’t know that there’s a lot else that I really like, my biggest fantasy that I have not accomplished that I’m waiting to accomplish is gangbang. And but I’m waiting for to do that on my wedding night. Like that’s gonna be so yeah,

 

Mallory Gordon  52:06

well, you just took it up. Right there, right?

 

Mickey Gordon  52:09

There’s definitely a pro game to cuckold you’re seeing it.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  52:15

I love it is actually pretty common fantasy. And some, you know, a couple who have been married for a long time, they decided to sort of renew their vows and they do it on that night. But for me, I’m definitely saving it for that one night. I’ve done all sorts of groups with lots of couples and stuff like that. But I’ve never done just myself and a group of guys so that I like I can’t wait, that’s gonna be so great. I’ve got it all kind of wild, somewhat planned out.

 

Mickey Gordon  52:46

If you’ve got a plan in your head, tell us what’s that guy look like your perfect partner? Right? So and what are the traits of a perfect partner? What’s it? What’s the guy that can that can land a cuckold dress and have her go by the way? You’re the guy I want to get gangbanged on her wedding night, too. Right? How does that conversation start?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  53:07

You know what, I don’t know why I didn’t bring this up sooner. But this is so this point is so important. With calculating and even hotwire thing, I think it just, I guess I didn’t bring it up, because it seems obvious. But I do need to point it out that this kind of dynamic only works with two people who are in a loving, committed long term relationship. And it doesn’t work with somebody who’s just casually dating or your friend or someone who you found who wants to try it with you. It’s like that shit does not work. It’s basically just role playing a scenario. And for for hotwire thing and cackling for that kind of incredible high to happen. That kind of euphoric rush that happens when you are calculating the person you love that is so intense, and it’s so bonding between the two of you. For that to happen, you have to literally be crazy about that person. And so that’s the part of this kind of relationship that makes it so addictive. And a lot of people will say that it’s addictive is because when you experience that with someone you love, it is incredible. It’s literally all you think about the days after you feel high. Like you feel like on cloud nine, you’re like, Oh my god, this is incredible. That’s why I love this kind of relationship so much. But like it’s so hard to find because you have to really be in love with that person. So you asked me what this guy looks like. I mean shit, I don’t know. I don’t know find like my, my life partner. You know, that’s hard enough as it is to find someone who you connect with on that level, but then bring in the fact that they have to be coached totally down for this kind of lifestyle. You’re like, Oh my god, it’s

 

Mallory Gordon  54:58

so hard for many But at least you you’ve identified what that person looks like, right now there’s a lot of people that have that general schematic. And you know, it takes them you know, multiple tries to find that person

 

Mickey Gordon  55:12

in where is that in the profile, right? Like, must like watching me get gangbanged or like watching me have sex we’re hearing about it and also does fucking dishes. Yeah, legit I won’t get it. You know I did the dishes like some of them.

 

Mallory Gordon  55:30

You’re terrible. I suck I’m much better. Oh, yeah.

 

Mickey Gordon  55:40

Yeah. Great housewife shithouse.

 

Mallory Gordon  55:43

So not domesticated in the corner. That’s a good thing, though. Okay. So I think the last question I have for you, and this is a little personal but what what is, uh, was the best experience you’ve had? And the coldness in the lifestyle.

 

Mickey Gordon  56:03

Tell us a story.

 

Mallory Gordon  56:04

Yeah, storytime.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  56:08

Experience. Oh, okay. That was with my first cup boyfriend, the one who I met on Tinder. It was my first consulting experience. He wasn’t there in person. But I had set up this hotel, meet with this black guy. And I was going to let him listen in on the phone. And I was really nervous about it at first, because I’d never done that before. And I had no idea what to expect. And so I, I let him listen to me on the phone. And it was a bit unexpected, but the guy that I was fucking, I guess he’d been more comfortable in that role than I was ever more experienced than I was because he started getting me to say certain things. And there was this kind of verbal dialogue that was going on that was like insanely fucking hot. And of course, my boyfriend listening on the phone was just getting off like crazy. And it was just like, Oh, my fucking god, it was so for me that that experience is burned into my brain because it was so intense, because of the reason that he was listening. And I was very much getting turned on by the fact that he was getting turned on. And this kind of dialogue that was going on. And I like, Oh, God, and I can’t even I can’t even talk about it.

 

Mallory Gordon  57:46

Still gets your motor on. I love that you were able to have that experience with a partner who led you and who was totally on board. Like let’s get nasty and make this worth your while in his one.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  57:56

Yeah, so that’s that’s kind of shocked me. Somebody somebody Yeah. Yeah. pot in here. Anyway, yeah. Yeah.

 

58:11

It’s gonna drink my coffee.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  58:15

Afterwards, like, just like him and I talking about it afterwards, when he said to me, he said those words, I feel like I trust you more now than ever and that. So that’s exactly what that moment was. In that moment. It was so bonding between us it was just such this emotional connection between us, even though he wasn’t there. And after that, I was hooked like completely so that in all the experiences I’ve had since then, that was the most impactful one for me, because it was like a lightbulb moment, it changed me forever.

 

Mickey Gordon  58:52

Well, so as a person that’s done this sort of thing a lot. Let’s talk advice from the cuckold dress for a minute, right? Do you have any advice for somebody who’s having a first time experience? And from the woman’s perspective? How do you deal with how would you recommend they deal with the nerves, right? Because the first time you’re stepping out, maybe you are a lifestyle, but maybe you’re used to playing together, maybe you’re used to same room. And now this is a very different experience, from an emotional perspective, from a trust perspective. How do you recommend dealing with those nerves? And how do you recommend dealing with it? And do you have any advice for guys who are dealing with maybe their wife doing this sort of thing and they’re maybe at home waiting or in another room? That’s the first time it’s just like jumping into a pool that you’re not sure if there’s water entered or not?

 

Cuckoldress Venus  59:45

Oh, yeah. pitfalls. Yeah, and I think for women, for me it was different because I mean, I kind of jumped in headfirst I was just like, I’m gonna do this, but that’s because All by, you know, I just went for it. But I mean, that’s not typical, I understand that a lot of women have been nervous, especially women who have or have not started out with swinging community. So that isn’t for those people I would recommend just take a very, very, very slow just baby steps just go meet a guy for for dinner, the three of you guys meet the guy for dinner, and nothing else like get to know him and try you know, meeting several guys because it’s gonna take you a long time to feel someone feel comfortable with somebody. Safety wise, I think it’s really important that your husband or boyfriend be there with you. Because that you’re comfortable. But also say he can step in if you’re not comfortable. And thanks for for guys, is if this is your first time sort of watching your your girlfriend or wife or participant like this, it’s really important that you don’t let the nerves kind of get the best of you. Because if you start to feel kind of insecure or unsure about it, then maybe that’s going to be damaging to the relationship. And because what she needs from you is she needs you to be like rock solid steady, like, focus, like, go for it. I’m here for you baby support. And if you kind of waver or if you can get that kind of negative jealousy, that is, that could be the worst. She may say, forget it. I’ve never tried this again. That was a terrible experience. So just just be as supportive as you possibly can.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:01:38

Yeah, and then Definitely, yeah. And that’s that’s got to be a challenge with the wave of emotions, especially for first timers. But I think you’re right, it’s it’s essential to to take pause and discuss it. But try not to react in the moment. It’s never good to react immediately when you’re overwhelmed with emotion because you can’t dissect all that information at one time. So yeah, I could talk to you can be

 

Cuckoldress Venus  1:02:05

really so many questions. Fun. We’ve talked, we’ve talked

 

Mallory Gordon  1:02:14

so much about your blog, but we actually haven’t identified where people can find you out there in the universe of the internet.

 

Cuckoldress Venus  1:02:24

Yeah, so my blog is called Venus cuckold just calm. And that’s where I’ve been writing for the last four years. And then I’m also quite active on Twitter. And my Twitter handle is at koco v. So that’s where you can find me.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:02:47

All right, well, we’ll make sure that make sure that our listeners do reach out to you and hit you up with some of those questions. And maybe the hottest among our listeners in the Vancouver area will find you for some more stories for that blog of yours.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:03:01

Amen.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:03:06

Well, I want to thank you from the bottom of our hearts. You’ve told us some pretty cool stories over the last 48 minutes which is means we’re over a normal interview. It goes quick. It really does. But anybody who wants to thank you. Anybody that wants to find cuckold just Venus, like she said, you can find her website at Venus cuckoldry calm and she is at cuckoldry v on Twitter. So we’re friends on Twitter. She follows us we follow her. Make sure you reach out to her with any questions. And we’ll be right back here in just a couple of minutes with a little bit more from casual swinger. Welcome back to casual swinger, everybody. This is Mickey. I’m Mallory. And this is one of our favorite segments we get to do you guys asked for it. You emailed us you messaged us. Those of you that have our numbers texted us you guys clamored to us on Twitter. You said more Jeff James. So today we have for you, WWE JD what would Jeff do? Our friend Jeff James, how you doing? Jeff?

 

1:04:21

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys know we’re doing really great. doing awesome. having a great time and a great year so far. So I am so glad to be here. So thank you for having us on the show again.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:04:32

Hello. Yeah. Thank you for joining us. Yeah, this is awesome. We had once we curiosity,

 

Mickey Gordon  1:04:41

or curiosity or question today, it really comes from an interview that we did during this hour and it was with a hot little lady by the name of cuckoldry Venus, and she is a cold dress out of British Columbia. She’s just absolutely awesome up there in Canada, and she’s really been experiencing what it means to be empowered as a female and lead when it comes to taking power, you know, and choosing who she wants to be with and and saying to the person in her life in a relationship, that I want to be with somebody else. I’m consensually non monogamous. And I’m going to be, and I’m going to tell you about it. Right?

 

Mallory Gordon  1:05:19

Yeah, so we kind of went over, like what cuckolding was and what her role is, and how she discovered it. So what we were discussing is the perspective from the other side, the male companionship, whether that’s hot wifing, or a cooking situation. So of course, we thought of you.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:05:34

Yeah, so what does it mean to be a guy that hot wives? And when you join a couple or be with a woman in front of her of her husband or boyfriend and and what are the strategies? How do you do it? Like, I’m a guy, and how do I do this and be effective.

 

1:05:48

When I was playing in the lifestyle many times it was about the hot wife situation, I mean, as a single male, in this lifestyle, it is, it needs to be said that it this lifestyle is all about the ladies. And if the ladies don’t feel empowered, and the ladies don’t feel like they’re in control, there’s going to be some problems. So many of the couples that I played with, especially as a single male, many of the couples that I was able to have an encounter with was very much about the the hot wife situation where the gentleman would normally approach me and say, Hey, you know, my wife, she thinks you’re attractive. And, you know, we’d like to have you come down and play. So first thing I would tell the guys as I’m not bisexual to make sure we got that off the table right off the bat. Because you know, here’s a guy inviting you to come into their bedroom, that could be a situation that you could be going into. So as a single guy, I always tell them, Hey, I’m not bisexual this, this situation will kind of lay down the groundwork. And if I like those couples, then I would say, okay, what’s the situation? And how do you guys want to play. And it was really strange, I’d say about 80% of the time, the guys were always saying, I want to watch, you know, my goal with another guy. And I couldn’t figure it out at first. But then I started to realize, and this is when it hit me this was a poignant part, playing with this couple, it’s good looking lady in a good looking guy. And we were in the in the room playing, and he was just watching over in the corner. And we were going, you know, going at it and having a good time. And I kept telling the guy, hey, you can come over and join us, you know, she can handle more than one guy at a time. Women are lucky that way. And you said no, no, no. And he was watching and just kind of, you know, going at it and jerking off and enjoying the show. So I was trying to give him the porn, you know, right angles, get my face out of the picture. You know, as a porn star. I’m always aware of those things. And I just want to give them the best adventure so we could do this today

 

Mickey Gordon  1:07:38

the uncomfortable our hands right? Just those are the ones we like leg up.

 

1:07:42

Yeah, these Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Don’t try this at home. We’re paid professional. Yeah,

 

Mallory Gordon  1:07:46

but they are lottery so.

 

1:07:53

So we would go through this situation. We have a good time. Everything was good. And at the end of the whole thing, and everything was done, you know, handshakes and hugs and kisses and thanks for coming in. You know, it was a great guy. I said, see what you do? No pun intended. Yeah. So I asked him. I said, I would say you know, how come you didn’t want to join us? I don’t understand. You’ve got this gorgeous, beautiful wife. She’s totally empowered. Why don’t you want to, you know, be part of the play? goes, You don’t understand. I said, What’s that? We look at me with a very serious kind of lawyer look on his face. And then it’s really deep kind of groaning series. Gad voice. He says to me, you don’t understand? I fucker six night, six nights a week? It’s your turn. Like, um, okay. All right. Now I get it. Your day off? Yeah, it’s your day off. So it was like his way of saying, you know, I don’t want to do do this. I just want to be the lawyer that a while all guys are. And I mean, let’s face it to watch porn, live porn with the most beautiful girl in the world, yours, right? The girl that’s in your life, the ladies in your life, and to be able to sit back and not have to worry about the performance and just watch the ecstasy of her having a sexual encounter with somebody is to a guy who we are very voyeuristic is like the ultimate perfect situation. I don’t have to do anything, I can do something if I want to. It’s like all the pressures off. And here’s this beautiful woman in front of you. And you’re giving her this present, of being able to be sexual with this other person. I mean, if you stop and think about the plus side of it, it’s a great gift. You know, and so I can see the attraction of a married couple. Having the guy sit back and watch his girl with another another guy. You know, it’s definitely something that has a lot of attraction, especially the people who’ve been in the white scarf. So the hot white thing totally get.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:09:54

Probably you comment on a couple of things. You said that, you know, you gave him a good angle, right because he was watching So what are some other? Yeah, you got to remember there’s a guy like, I mean, maybe I mean, so maybe he is watching as a single guy and you’re joining a couple, what kind of tips? Could you give people that maybe are looking to join a couple? And so now obviously get a good view. But maybe it isn’t photos as a video, what sort of things? Could you offer in terms of advice for a single guy? And what sort of advice would you give people who’s thinking about bringing a guy in?

 

1:10:27

Okay, well, well, both those both those things, the advice that I would give people, if they’re going to go into a hot wife situation, apply to both a couple and a single male, because those questions and answers, and what you’re going to be looking for is a good playmate apply to both a couple looking for the guy, and the guy looking for the couple. And that is this, first of all, the guys have to respect each other, you have to have that alpha male beta male situation going on, as a single guy coming in, you have to understand, you’re playing with somebody’s loved one, this is his wife, this is the one he’s invested his life with, he has given his time and everything to you, if you don’t respect that, understand that and keep that at the top of your mind, the whole time you’re playing, you’re going to fail in the situation, as a couple, you need to find the guy who understands he’s the toy, he’s the beta is not part of your relationship is not going to be part of your relationship. And you have to keep that emotional distance that arm’s length away. This is a person that we’re going to play with, have a good time with. And think about when we go home and have sex together to help, you know, get us through those long, long winter nights. That’s great. That’s what this is about. It’s all about that sexual dream, that sexual situation. And that’s where it needs to be. So as a single guy, when you’re playing with somebody, his wife, and it’s a hot wife situation, understand he’s watching. So you’ve got to get your face out of it. These guys jump on top of somebody’s wife, and the dude has nothing but a shot of some, some guys, Harry asked, jumping up and down with his wife buried underneath this sweaty person. That’s not what he’s looking for. He’s looking for the porn, he’s looking for the ecstasy. He’s looking for the eroticism, of seeing this gorgeous woman that he is married to and dedicated his life to, on top of somebody he’s not looking for your face, is looking for your dick inside of her, and she’s on top of him enjoying him, that’s what you need to give to him. It’s not about your, as a single guy, it’s not about your pleasure, and you’re having sex with this person, it’s about your performance. And that’s exactly what it is our performance for the male who’s watching, because the guy who’s sitting on the couch on the other side of the room is the alpha male, he’s the director, he’s the cameraman, he’s the guy that’s in charge of it. And if he’s not going to have a good time, can’t maintain that erection or that height of sexual excitement, this situation is not going to happen again. And as a single man, here’s the other thing you have to remind yourself about, that couple will go out and tell everybody else, you’re a failure as a single guy coming into that situation, but it’s a review, you don’t want to look good performance. Bingo, if you do a good performance, and they do have a good time, and he gets to see his woman having a good time with you. And you show them the the amount of respect he’s looking for. They’re gonna do just the opposite and run around and tell every couple who’s into the same thing, that you’re a good play toy. And as a single guy in this in this in this lifestyle, that is the ultimate compliment. Well, I

 

Mickey Gordon  1:13:30

think he touched on something that’s super important. You said the word a couple of times, you said the word respect. And I think as a example, who is looking to bring a guy in, right? Or as well, as a guy who’s looking to join a couple, respecting the boundaries of their relationship is super important. And you said, This guy, this guy’s a play toy. And you know, we’re not talking about poly because in poly, you know, there’s there’s still a higher All right, this is play. This is hot, wifing.

 

1:13:59

In poly, there’s in poly, you gotta remember in poly, there’s a love factor. There’s an emotional connection

 

Mickey Gordon  1:14:05

is different.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:14:06

So I think that’s great advice.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:14:08

It is great advice. Yeah,

 

Jeff James  1:14:09

it’s respect for the relationship. And when you’re a couple, that’s what you’re looking for in your beta male, you’re looking for somebody who understands that he has to talk to the guy as well as the girl, he has to understand that there’s a relationship there that he’s going to be part of for just a small time.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:14:28

So a couple of things here first, I feel like I just heard everything you said in the voice of Steve Verbruggen because it almost was like painting a picture of natural National Geographic. Second, I’ve had two burdens. So please forgive me, I may slur my words a little bit. in there, everyone. We’re good. We’re good. But I think I think ultimately, like, everyone’s pleasure is part of the game here. Right? Because, as you know, if I’m, you know, venturing out and I’m hot wifing right, whether that’s, you know, enclosed Including you in the room, for instance, Mickey, or, or separately, you know, you’re still in the forefront of my mind is still anticipate in and hope that that person would respect you in every way possible. But the goal for me is in that moment for him and I to have pleasurable, you know, outcomes, right, yeah. To reach climax at both ends. And then to bring that home, right and have that part of our experience. In fact, it?

 

1:15:30

Yes, if you will. I had a couple of ones. And I played with them several times. And this lady had come to me and said, You know, my husband’s out of town. It’s a sexual situation. And he wants me to come and he wants you to come over and do this and play with me. And then we’ll talk about later I said, that sounds great. That’s awesome. Next thing out of my mouth was have him call me and we’ll set it up.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:15:56

Ah, see when somebody drama in there,

 

1:15:59

I need to hear it. I need to hear it from him. That is, I don’t need to hear it from her. Because I don’t want to be somebody drama, you just want to find age. Yep, I want to hear from him. And I want to know what’s going on. Now. It was fun, and everything was good. Whenever we played, we had a good time. And then I noticed at the end of the whole session, I looked off to the side and her cell phone was on. And I said what the heck. And then I picked up the cell phone. I said, Hey, dude, Was that good? And he was like, Yeah, I heard everything. Oh, my gosh, she actually had her call him in the hotel, so he could jerk off to it. And he was actually part of the situation, which made me feel better.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:16:41

You know, what’s great about? Because you haven’t heard the interview, we haven’t given you any background to it. But that was mentioned, and Venus’s first experience

 

Mickey Gordon  1:16:50

was it was and you know, why do you think they should have told you? Right, that you should have been privy to what was going on, right? If somebody was listening in, because maybe you would have done things a little differently, maybe you would have put on a better show, I would have made more noise. So let’s talk real quick, because you know, we talked about hot wifing a little bit and we talked about what it means to to really kind of, you know, make sure they can see or make sure you get good pictures or make sure like you said maybe make a little extra noise if they’re on the phone or whatever. But yeah, no

 

Mallory Gordon  1:17:20

advantage that you have there. Yeah,

 

Mickey Gordon  1:17:23

I think that the number one thing, eat, whether it’s whether it’s cook, or whether it’s hot, wifing. It’s still respect, right? Because she’s got things she wants in a cook relationship. She knows what she wants from her man. And she knows what she’s going to deliver to her cooker, that hammock, a cold dress, the woman who’s in charge, the woman in power, knows what she wants to deliver. So, I mean, why is a person is a guy that entertains these relationships. If somebody says to you, hey, we’re going to and I know in porn, so what I want you to do is tell us, you know, the kind of stuff that you’ve seen in porn in cocke? Because it isn’t what what Venus told us. During this episode, she said, Oh, life is very different than what you guys do in porn. So tell us a little bit about what you do in porn and what you would do in real life. That’s different.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:18:15

Yes.

 

1:18:16

Well, in porn, it’s depicted. For the most part, I’m not going to say all the time, because I haven’t seen every video ever made with everybody there. And I’m not going to step on anybody’s toes trying to depict something else. 10 year old, fairly vast majority. Right? And the vast majority of those videos, it shows that there’s more of almost a degradation and almost, you’re going to watch me it’s like the the beta male, that toy comes in and says, watch me, I’m going to take over your girl and starts doing things in front of this guy, as he sits there on the couch, not touching himself, which to me, is really weird. Here’s the thing, if we were in a situation, and that was okay, and somebody is having sex with my girl, I’m going to be jerking off because I’m watching the live porn. I want to be stimulated from that. But hey, to somebody else, that’s what may not be their thing, you know, but it’s portrayed in that way. So often, it’s almost a degrading situation, which would put it almost into a BDSM or fetish situation. Like he was a sub, you know, sub slave. Yeah, he’s gonna sit there and watch me fuck your wife and you can’t do anything about it. It’s this power play, that they’re trying to depict. Yeah, like a groin? Sure. Yeah, she’ll look over at him and she’s like, you likely he’s doing and and Do you see what he’s doing to me? You don’t do this to me, and he’s gonna do this to me. And it’s like, to me, I’m not real familiar with that situation, because in my life, it would never happen. It was more of a hot white situation where there’s a mutual respect there especially in a swing lifestyle. But If that’s what somebody is into, I’m not going to say, you know, good, bad or indifferent. But for some reason or another in porn, it’s usually depicted that way. And that’s kind of a turnoff for, for people that are more of a hot white persuasion than they are, you know, a cocktail persuasion in that it’s just, if that’s what the guys are into, if that’s what the couple is into, hey, great, whatever. But make sure everybody’s on base with it. Make sure everybody before place session, just like with everything else, everybody has to know what’s going on. You know what I mean? You don’t want to booby trap somebody, especially a beta male. Because if you, if you bring a single guy into a situation, where he’s not fully informed, not only is he not going to be able to perform, but then you’re going to scare this guy. And there could be a lot of negative connotation connected to that, and talk and the way people are on the internet. You know what I mean? You just don’t want to deal with that. So you want to make sure everybody’s on board with their role in this role playing type situation. Absolutely. That’s kind of

 

Mallory Gordon  1:21:02

always covered the big picture. No, absolutely.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:21:05

Yeah. And something we talked about in our introduction here. The second most commonly searched term by heterosexual users in porn. Is cuckold. The second most routinely searched term

 

Mallory Gordon  1:21:20

and above lesbian, amateur animals like all of that, really? Yeah.

 

1:21:25

Wow. Yeah. I’m gonna chime in on that real quick. I think it’s because the term is being used more often. But the term is not self explanatory. Everybody knows what a lesbian is. Everybody knows what a threeway is. Everybody knows what a noise. Everybody knows what facials are. But then the word cocktail in itself. leaves you baffled? insane. What is it mean? It’s not watermelon. It’s, it’s something else is Cucamonga in your life?

 

Mickey Gordon  1:21:56

People? Exactly. So people Google it. And they’re like, I want to know what this means. And I say no, because one of their friends said something. I think it paints negative light, right? Because porn is not helping this guy. Because in reality, this timing. Yeah, this time, this time. All right. Well, you know, like I said, when we’re talking to Venus, sometimes she wants you to spit in her mouth. That’s okay.

 

1:22:19

But, you know, yeah. And that goes into the fetish thing. I think I’m more into the BDSM study, you know, in in fetish. And in BDSM, I know that many times a couple will go see either a dominatrix or a DOM, and the DOM will tie up the husband, and restrain him and then have him watch, as he turns on, or abuses in some way. You don’t want to call it abuse, but stimulates his wife without him being able to control the situation. And Venus talked about that. Exactly. And exactly, because he’s being physically held back. That’s the excitement of it. Yeah.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:23:00

And yeah, funny. We talked about that a little bit earlier. So it’s cool that we’re running in parallels here. And I do think this is, is hugely important. And I think everybody loves your perspective on this. And I think the themes we can take away from this are respect and communication. And understand. It depends like hot wife, maybe it is more of a male fantasy and incoco holding is really turning that power over. And you know, what you have to have to turn power over is respect and trust,

 

1:23:28

respect and trust. Well, right. Yeah, absolutely. respect and trust, not only for your relationship for the relationship between the guy and the girl, but respect and trust for the person you’re bringing in. Because remember, nobody wants to get hurt. Nobody wants to hurt somebody that you’re bringing in. That’s why I’m not a real big person on vanilla hunting. But we’ll we’ll that’s a whole different subject. And we’ll cover that one in another show, please. Now my Yeah, yeah. Yeah, vanilla hunting has got a whole different deal to it. But as far as as far as bringing somebody into your play time, in swing, no matter what the situation, but especially in hot wife, or incoco, you definitely have to have a high amount of respect, and communication. And all the people who are involved need to be on the same page at all times, whether it’s take my wife back to the room and have sex with her. So when I go back and have sex with her, she can tell me about it. And that’s going to stimulate me, well, whether you’re sitting right next to him, or whether you’re actually doing a threesome being part of the situation, no matter what the situation. If there isn’t a high amount of respect for the relationship. If there isn’t a high amount of communication between you, it’s never going to work. something bad will happen. And I’ve seen it relentlessly over and over and over again, you have to have that communication now. It doesn’t mean you can’t spoil the spontaneity of it. It doesn’t mean that you can’t be spontaneous with it, because spontaneity can happen long as you have permission ahead of time and Then when that situation comes up, you can jump on it, no pun intended. But you can jump on it and take take grasp of that situation and have that spontaneity that you’re looking for. But knowing that you already have a previous agreement between the people who are involved, that this is going to happen. So, yeah, it’s a big thing. You have to have that respect for that relationships. Well, this is I’m glad. I’m glad I can help with Yeah, it’s

 

Mickey Gordon  1:25:27

a big subject. And you have to have a guy that maybe has done a little bit of everything to do this. And you’re so dynamic that I went ahead, and I felt like you know, we could run a little long on this one. Hopefully our listeners will forgive us for an episode. That’s a few minutes long matter. We had like an hour and a half episode, like a month or two ago, so and nobody bitch so anyway. Yeah, I heard about that actually could have said, Hey, we went a long time. It was good shit. Hey, man, speaking of dynamic, you started a new business. And I want you to plug it for everybody. Tell everybody that crazy weird shit. Oh, there before, Mallory takes us out. But I want everybody to hear about your history.

 

1:26:07

This is pretty cool. No, I appreciate that. Allowing us to plug our new business on your on your on your your show. It does us a lot of pride. And thank you so much. Yeah, it is a bit of a tricky business. And it is a cutting edge business that has kind of come into its own. Aubrey and I have decided that we want to help people. And we love helping people, we want to help people feel comfortable in their homes. So we are very big into the paranormal. We are very big into science. And we are really big into new technologies. So we have taken this all in. And we have now started our own company. And that company is. And I absolutely love doing this. I really do. But it’s it’s PCI, it’s a paranormal, consulting, and investigations. And what we do is we have people call us, and we come to their home, because they feel as though they have an entity or an energy, or they want to do some investigation in a new home that they’re moving into, or into a home of their friends. And they think there’s something there. We come in, we do research, we do all the information. We gather all the information, we report it into a report, we give them all of the things that we find. They are proprietary to the to the owners of the property, and we help them coexist with if you will excuse the expression coexist with the people who have passed on and who are living in the same house to stay on. So we want people to feel comfortable in their own bed. And that’s what we’re doing. That’s so it’s an amazing opportunity for us. You kidding. I love it. Well, we tell people we’re paranormal investigators and people just laugh. They just love it. They smile and they think it’s the coolest thing in the world. So we have had a relentless amount of support on the Herbert’s folks, you heard it here first came

 

Mallory Gordon  1:28:00

definitely like literally the Renaissance man, you keep adding to the portfolio here.

 

1:28:06

You mean our art our galleries, our drawings, and now we’re paranormal investigators. Yes, we are. If you guys are interested, or if your listeners are interested, and they want to see and you want to follow us. We do have a Facebook, we have a Twitter, and we have our Instagram site. But you can also go to our website if you’d like to get a hold of us. Or if you have any paranormal stories that you’d like to share with us. We would love to hear them. You can go to PCI ghosts calm or you can go to paranormal, SCI fi.com that’s paranormal season cat eyes investigation, paranormal ci.com. We would love to hear from you from your listeners. And if they have any paranormal experiences or questions. We would love to answer those questions for them. We can’t always fly out and answer those questions. But if they have something for us please feel free to give us whatever information you have and we’ll let you know what our opinions are Jeff

 

Mickey Gordon  1:28:59

is always your a class act. And thank you for joining us today on casual swinger for WWE JD

 

Mallory Gordon  1:29:05

yes Jeff do absolutely. I mean next time we talk to always or not to mention my Ghostbusters fantasy the whole like waking up to ghosts like having sex with me. Yeah,

 

1:29:17

I can we Yes, absolutely. We can do this as you guys always bring it back to sex. So yes, put on a sheet come in the room and she’s naked and masturbating by yourself, say do a couple of times and jump on top of it and you get your paranormal experience right there. But that’s a whole nother show. We’ll do that for Halloween. for Halloween. All right, guys, love. Well, we love you guys. Our recess to give you her love, and we love all your listeners. And please keep listening to the show guys. Tell your friends about it. And we look forward to getting those answers.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:29:55

Awesome. Thank you so much, Stephen. To our listeners out there you can find us as casual swinger. Everywhere that’s SDC Cassidy, SLS, Twitter and Instagram. Thanks again Jeff. Thanks everyone for listening. This is Mallory. I’m out