Hedo, she wrote… (catching up with the author of “The Naked Truth About Hedonism II”)

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Mickey & Mallory have one of the busiest lifestyle weekends in the history of ever, and catch up with the amazing author of “The Naked Truth About Hedonism II.”  Learn more about what led this wild child, turned professor, to become a lifelong citizen of the “zoo” and live to write about it!  Ring in the New Year in style with Mickey & Mallory!

Chris Santilli is the author of several books, one of the most noteworthy being the definitive guide to the most notorious resort on the planet, Hedonism II.  Mickey and Mallory sit down to discuss her book, what drove her to write it, and how the resort has changed over the years and across three revisions of her book.

In “Cocktail Corner,” you’ll learn how you can grab your very own copy of Chris’ list of “Hedo Recipes” where you can make your own Caribbean drinks in the comfort of your own home!

Happy New Year, listeners!


Intro:  01:00

Happy New Year!  The best date in forever and a house party 03:00

Hedo, She Wrote – An interview with author Chris Santilli 24:00

Cocktail Corner – Get your tropical drinks here!  72:00


Author Chris Santilli’s Home Page Amazon – The Naked Truth About Hedonism II Secrets Hideaway, Florida

Hearing impaired? This podcast is transcribed for your convenience.

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Hedo, She Wrote – An interview with author Chris Santilli

Thu, 9/2 3:40PM • 1:17:32


people, book, resort, hito, drinks, hedonism, party, stories, casual, lifestyle, mallory, swinger, read, life, sexy, chris, day, friends, write, third edition


Chris Santilli, Cuckoldress Venus, Mickey Gordon, Mallory Gordon


Mallory Gordon  00:09

Welcome to casual swinger. If you’re under 18, the following podcast is not appropriate for you. The subjects and language are for mature audiences only. If you’re not mature in nature, just make sure you’re old enough to vote. We don’t take ourselves seriously ever. No guarantees given regarding the accuracy of any opinions or statements made on this podcast or website or a blog. It’s all in fun, folks. This isn’t Dr. Phil. Now consider yourself the listener properly advised. Welcome back to casual swinger, Mallory, Mickey. And thanks for joining us today, guys. We have a great episode lined up for you. We’re gonna go over the ongoings in the past two weeks since we last spoke to y’all. And we have a special guest.  Oh, I can’t wait for this .  I know. Gosh, you’re so starstruck over this one. And you know what, I can’t blame you. She’s wonderful. We have Chris and Tilly that we did an interview with. And Chris is the author of The Naked Truth About Hedonism II.


Mickey Gordon  01:16

what a book, right? That is the seminal guide, right? It’s the


Mallory Gordon  01:21

quintessential Travel Guide to traveling to the resort. But even if you’ve never been, you never will go. It’s hilarious. Right? well read, you


Mickey Gordon  01:30

know what I say? Because, you know, in the podcast community, there’s a lot of people that talk about desire depi they talk about desire Riviera, Maya, and its desire, desire, desire, desire. Nobody’s ever written a fucking book about desire. Right, you know, maybe we will, you know, that’s the thing we’re looking into in 2020. Right. So that’s how we end that argument when there’s a universal desire. Nobody’s ever very


Mallory Gordon  01:49

nice. Yeah. And this book is say it has stood the test of time, and it’s influenced and brought up so much positivity for people who have read it. Yeah. And like I said, it’s, it’s hilarious.


Mickey Gordon  02:02

And I think it’s about more than just about keto, right. Even if you’ve never been to keto, you’re not gonna go to Hito you don’t give a shit about Ito. I think much like, you know, our guest last time Jeff James, she had some really cool things to save it, that affect life and are really about, you know, in the are about lifestyle are about doing things that are outside of our comfort zone. I’m really excited for that interview. But that’s not what we’re talking about. Right? Because that is today. Today is New Year’s Day. Happy New Year, everybody. Happy 2019 we’re still kicking ass. That’s right. We can’t wait for 2018 guess you know, 2018 for all the fucked up things that it was, was the birth of casual swinger. So that’s pretty wicked for us. And you know, we’re excited to be here with all of you guys and doing what we do. But we’re going to talk a little bit about our new year and what we did over the last few days, because we kind of had a resolution and we lived it.


Mallory Gordon  02:54

We did and we made it before because the holidays were very tough as far as getting out of the house, doing things taking that time for ourselves. and spending time with LS people. We just didn’t happen. Everyone was so busy. Like, in the last podcast, we said like what date just died. It just it died. And it was very stressful. And I think there’s a lot of people out there, especially when family gets involved that feel that way. And I love the holidays. Don’t get me wrong, but either I’m a little relieved. We’re past that now the holidays. Now. But yeah, we started a resolution early. We had an amazing date.


Mickey Gordon  03:29

We had a meet. That’s how we started. Right? That was Friday. We had a stupid, great day. One of the best dates we’ve ever had,


Mallory Gordon  03:38

honestly, yes. And like, I’m excited, and I’m a little nervous because this is so new. This is a different vibe.


Mickey Gordon  03:46

It is a different vibe. And I’m kind of going don’t fuck it up. Mickey don’t fuck it up Mickey for me to


Mallory Gordon  03:52

completely Me too. And I told him outright because we actually spent New Year’s Eve with them. We did


Mickey Gordon  03:57

saw them twice in the same week. Yeah, yeah. Cuz like, we weren’t gonna write we were just gonna go into these guys. And then we had a house party on Saturday night, as well. Yeah. Right, which is a lifestyle also. But yeah. And we’re like, whatever, that’s fine. And then we have this great date. And they’re like, oh, we’re going to secrets. And we’re like, well, we weren’t going to go to secrets. But I think we’re going to now and we end up spending the whole night with him in secrets which


Mallory Gordon  04:20

we closed down. We went to a just a casual restaurant, hung out, had a couple drinks had food. And we look up after hours of conversation with these people. And they’re closing it down. Like they’re flipping chairs under the table.


Mickey Gordon  04:33

Oh, yeah, they did everything but tell us to get the hell out of there.


Mallory Gordon  04:36

Literally. Then we set out the parking lot for another hour. docume it was just, he were so drawn. And it was just it was so good.


Mickey Gordon  04:44

Yeah, well, so we’re gonna call these guys dp. Because it’s funny. And that’s great. Actually, we’re gonna call them dp. And they absolutely just, I mean, so when we sat here to talk, we wanted to talk about this this date that we had why it was a great day, what makes? Let’s write that down. Because, you know, we’ve had a lot of dates with other couples, we’ve met people. And you know, you know, when you have to work for it, and you feel like you’re having a search for things to talk about where maybe they’re not giving that energy back to you, that you’re putting out there and you feel like maybe you have to entertain them. And you have to turn on and be some sort of a comedian. That didn’t happen now. It was so organic. It really was. I mean, it was it was like a game of tennis, almost Ruby would tell the story, they would tell a story. And we would, it was just sharing and they had lifestyle experience, which made it great for us. Yes, yes, no. And they had stories to tell and things to talk about. And, and they were in an 18 year old budget. Oh, my gosh, they had a midget. I don’t have permission to tell that story. But it was not gonna tell the story. But it’s great. They had images, though. But it just, you know, my favorite part is, first of all, she is smoking. Gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous, but she’s intelligent. And she was outgoing and gregarious. And he was warm and friendly. And, and good looking. And until it’s, again, I’m excited. Yeah, it was really cool. You know, we have not connected with a couple like that since we moved to Florida. So if we sound excited, it’s because we are those guys were badass. So what makes a great date, Connecting, Connecting and sharing content with each other and just talking about your lives in it not feeling forced?


Mallory Gordon  06:32

Yeah, remember, we talked about being a good communicator. And that’s there’s two parts to that. That’s the act of listening, which is a key role. And being an active conversationalist, like putting yourself out there, because especially in doing what we do in the lifestyle and going on dates, there’s really no reason that you need to waste your time pretending to be somebody you’re not in order to fit a mold, because you’re not serving yourself and you’re not serving the other people. No, this is all about having a good time and meeting new people. And for me, anything that happens after making friends is fucking icing on the cake.


Mickey Gordon  07:07

Yeah. Well, and you just hit a huge nail in the head right now. I mean, that’s, I mean, we talk about the importance of just getting together just getting together and seeing what happens. Magic can’t happen if you don’t leave the house, which is part of our resolution here. Yeah. And you know, I’m a fisherman, and I tell people, you’re not going to catch fish. Unless you’re on the lake. Yeah. You know, you’re just not going to do it. Yeah. My dad used to say, you can’t get this catch fish sitting on the couch. That’s right. Yeah. And for us, you know, we needed to get on the lake, we needed to get out there and meet some people. So we went on STC. And and I found these guys. So what I wanted to also say is what made us message these guys in the first place? Because, you know, I handle a lot of our STC stuff and I bring stuff to Mallory and I say, Honey, the seed this is these are the couples identified that I think are interesting. So what stood out to me about their profile, they had a ton of pictures. They had video, which is crazy on STC, right, and they’re hot, but that wasn’t the point. The point was, they really put parts of themselves out there. And some people do it with words like we do. But some people do it with their pictures too. And their pictures were then being active than being outside them going places and happy and you know, bars and parties and friends and and


Mallory Gordon  08:23

it wasn’t central around being sexy or sex in general. It was about them as people.


Mickey Gordon  08:29

Yes. And that says genius. These are the kinds of people we want to hang out around. It doesn’t matter if it ever becomes sex. And if that’s the feeling you get looking at a couple chances are you’re gonna have a decent date if they are as advertised. And I’ll tell you, dp was 100% as exactly who we thought they were. And yeah, it was good stuff. So that’s awesome. That’s how our New Year’s date went. But what do we do after the date? What do we do the next day? Because you know, that date lasted all day long. We did get home to like 130 in the morning.


Mallory Gordon  09:00

Yeah, so that was Friday. And then the next day we had a house party. So good friends of ours. We actually met them in Jamaica but they only live like 30 minutes from us which is hilarious. So we go to this house party they host parties there once or twice a month.


Mickey Gordon  09:14

end of the month or do deviants


Mallory Gordon  09:18

Yep. Great people I love the to the couple that that runs that house that that runs that group. I mean, they’re just so freaking awesome. And you bought that house. Oh my god, dude. So they’ve they bought this house intentionally to host parties there and they’ve been slowly remodeling it


Mickey Gordon  09:36

Yeah, and the epitome of a fixer upper. I mean we the first time we’ve been out there we were like, okay, but it’s got


Mallory Gordon  09:42

potential they had a ton of potential on the layouts great and they installed like this island with like the kitchen is just to die for with that


Mickey Gordon  09:50

the fridge or the frigerator is actually going to cost me my marriage.


Mallory Gordon  09:53

Oh my gosh, I don’t know if I could handle that refrigerate, it was insane. And the countertops and the cabinet And


Mickey Gordon  10:00

it’s the biggest fucking kitchen I’ve ever seen


Mallory Gordon  10:02

what was so cool is I noticed the way they had everything laid out that they made sure that items that would be frequently lose. And you know, where the placement of the island was, was all central to when we have this many people over. How is the flow going to work and they did an excellent


Mickey Gordon  10:23

what nearly 100 people at this party, and it’s a house party, my new cippic frickin house.


Mallory Gordon  10:27

Yeah, it’s a pretty big house at a pool at a hot tub. There’s indoor and outdoor space. There’s rooms upstairs and a group room solo rooms. You


Mickey Gordon  10:36

can get upstairs and downstairs easily. You can get around the house easily. You can get around the tub in the hot tub, or the pool and hot tub easily. You can get in and out of the house easily. They’re easily accessible bathrooms moving with all those people. It never really felt crowded


Mallory Gordon  10:52

now it didn’t. It didn’t. That was awesome. And everyone was in, you know, dressed wonderfully. I saw women changing outfits throughout the night, which was fantastic. Because then I was like a little


Mickey Gordon  11:03

bashful. No. Yeah, I love it. When people get dressed


Mallory Gordon  11:06

and people were crossed know it like mingling and very, very social. There wasn’t a lot of like, hesitation or nervousness or wallflower and like it was a really cool vibe.


Mickey Gordon  11:16

Yeah. So you know, and of course you had they’re great. They’re great hosts. And in honestly, that’s a cheap way like house party setting. We talked about this on an early episode. house parties are a great, inexpensive way to get up meet people. Their donation was 20 bucks. They recommend a donation but they don’t ask for it. They set the box out and they never mention it. No, if you want to make a donation, that’s where you do it. But music and dancing.


Mallory Gordon  11:39

Now us Yeah, they had like appetizers and food sat out and mixers and cups and plate. I mean, you name it. They supplied everything. But it was BYOB, if you had something you wanted to drink those alcoholic. That’s the only thing you had to bring in.


Mickey Gordon  11:52

If you wanted to bring a dish for people to share. You could Yeah, I mean, they set this stuff out. And so it’s kind of like a potluck. At the same time. If you want to eat, I never really understand why people eat at swinger parties. It may weirds me out a little bit.


Mallory Gordon  12:03

It doesn’t weird me out, but I can’t because I get that nervous excitement. And it’s just the food is the last thing on my mind. Oh, it’s


Mickey Gordon  12:10

the last thing on my mind, too, I assure you. But, you know, it’s so let’s talk about because we want to talk about what we did at the party and where we ended up. Yeah, I think how did we get there. So the same thing, I went on STC, and SLS and I found the party. And I joined the party beforehand, days beforehand, to make sure that other people knew we were going to be there. And then I followed that up by bringing up the whole list of everybody that was coming and bringing up each of their profiles and Mallory and I sat in bed on our tablets. And we went through and said these are the three people we would very much like to talk to. And then you know, we sent a few messages. I think we probably sent four or five because there were some great people there. There


Mallory Gordon  12:54

really were and we ran into most of them. And it was wonderful. I’m so glad that you took that proactive role got me involved, that we sent those messages and were able to connect with other humans like that it was it because


Mickey Gordon  13:09

we didn’t know anybody other than the hosts. We got there. No, but we saw those familiar faces. We saw people that were like, Hey, you guys are casual swinger? Yes, we are. It’s nice to meet you. And then that transitions into great tell us about yourselves. You know, we read your profile. We know this and that the other and that’s the other thing, right? When you go to a party like that, and you did look up people don’t just look at their pictures, look and see what they had to say. So you have something to talk about. Yeah. That was kind of a big deal. When when we did that. We ended up meeting a couple from Jacksonville. That’s true, which was so exciting. It totally saying because she’s screaming hot and he’s apparently like a debonair. Yeah, like, Yeah, he’s he’s almost as smooth as I Oh, almost almost like he


Mallory Gordon  13:51

had an I’m not an official hair typically. But he’d like this really nicely quaffed like beard going on. And like, it was dressed really well. And


Mickey Gordon  14:00

but the thing about this particular couple, definitely hot. Yeah. But they’re super cool. And they invited us to their party next weekend in Jacksonville. Yep. So we’re going yeah, so we’re gonna go and it’s and we love being around lifestyle people. Again, you know, it’s, you know, we definitely have our preference. Right now, you know, we’ve got, you know, a couple that we met that’s close to home that we are, you know, having a great time with, but we still love going to these parties. It’s not like we’re gonna I mean, some people are very busy. We’re usually not,


Mallory Gordon  14:30

I just I want to add to my tribe, and I want to be more active and in life in general, we spend, you know, in the day to day stuff between work and family, we dump a lot of ourselves under that. And I found in the last year aside from when we started the podcast, that we had gotten away from allowing ourselves to have that time. You’re so right, and you think it makes us better people. It makes us better employees, it makes us better parents, when we get that kind of time because it feeds our soul. And and who we are.


Mickey Gordon  15:09

We really value that time when we get both ways we value our lifestyle time. We also value the time with our friends and family and kids a little bit more to because absolutely, we’re taking that time, and we’re making time for ourselves. And here after we finished talking about our New Year’s party, we’ll talk about some of those resolutions a little bit, but I think you’re right, getting out more was the plan. And Wow, did it work out? I mean, obviously, like we said, Great date. And then we made friends with another couple that hosts parties just like the deviants were went on Saturday night. Yes. So now we have more parties and more friends. So positivity begets positivity. Would you say


Mallory Gordon  15:45

I have to agree. And the other thing that I acknowledged is I get I feel like I’m getting more quality time with you. And your element. Last night for how worked out well, twice. Yeah, thank you.


Mickey Gordon  16:00

Yeah, that was that was good stuff. Talking somebody last night. I had my 900 number of ways on so yeah, she did. Oh, that was dirty bit. Hey, what did we do last night we went to our favorite haunt in Orlando. I know those guys follow the show. We got to give them mad props secrets, hideaway. Dude, they did a smashing job. What a great party they put on last night. First of all, they put so much work into that resulted in the last year. They have really, like dress that place up.


Mallory Gordon  16:32

Yeah, hands down. I mean at all. It doesn’t look like a completely different club. It looks like a better version of that resort. Yeah, I


Mickey Gordon  16:39

mean, I noticed siding on the rooms on the interior rooms or the siding on the outside that they had redone.


Mallory Gordon  16:44

Yeah. And they did it on the vamped of the courtyard a little bit and then they have that big screen for the ball drop. They did a ridiculous firework display at midnight. That was redonk it was it? I mean, I’m sorry, Disney didn’t have shit on that because you were so close to it. And they were they were literally right in front of us and yeah, beautiful.


Mickey Gordon  17:02

Yeah, I said at the end I wished all orgasms was bad ass. But you know, to me there were corsets everywhere. Like last night was corset Central. Royal New Year’s. Yeah, it was I had the Royal thing going on. And so Mallory was the Queen of Hearts. Oh my gosh, I kept saying it. I was so boozy, like over the top boozy, but I had to own it. She definitely had her little inner hoe going on with her little red corset or two, two with the sexy little panties. Take a picture. I really, I’m really pissed because that we could use that picture for this episode. And I don’t know what the fuck I’m gonna use a picture for the subset, but we’ll figure it out. But just just sexy. And of course, it’s everywhere. Right? So dp, she was wearing a sexy corset with her little she looked like a little Renaissance Fair thing going. And that s. But so that was awesome. And I mean, just what a great New Year’s party. And, you know, so that kind of is what brought us to that party I just mentioned dp. That’s how we ended up there. They said, Hey, we’re going to secrets Really? Yeah. Okay, I guess we are now to Yeah, and we’re really glad we did because those outfits were awesome. If you guys don’t know about secrets, just to give these guys a shameless plug. They actually sell their rooms you can rent them when you go there for a party, but you can also buy in is an owner. We don’t personally have one. But it looks like a pretty cool thing if your data


Mallory Gordon  18:26

is very cool. And I think I don’t know if it makes sense for us. I mean, that’s something we could definitely entertain but we’re so close. Yeah, that I don’t know. Yeah, I just saw no, but I definitely see the value in it. And that’s a definitely that’s another neat feature about going to that place specifically. And it’s crazy because we weren’t supposed to be here we were supposed to be up in Virginia. Yeah. Yeah, New Year’s Eve party and family stuff happen life stuff happen and we ended up needing to stay back here in Florida. check engine light on the truck turned out to be a blessing in disguise.


Mickey Gordon  19:00

What a weekend right? Yeah, I’d gone to Virginia who knows what happened? Yeah. We’re gonna do we’re not there. But hey, I want to throw a shout out real quick. Our friends mark and Carly, Mark and Carly host and secrets. They you know, you can’t miss the dude. He’s got a gigantic Mohawk super gregarious great emcee. You know, he and I run into each other all over the place, MC and stuff. And Mark and Carly are as sweet as they come. They’re nice people. And Carly is under the weather right now. So Mark did it last night by himself. its secrets. So Mallory and I want to say you know, Carly, if you’re listening to this feel better honey. We’re thinking about you. And so but aside from that we love where this is going right? This is really good stuff for


Mallory Gordon  19:45

  1. It’s great stuff like I’m so far I know we’re 24 hours and not even Yeah, but 2019 is our here, Mickey. I feel it in my bones.


Mickey Gordon  19:55

You’re gonna do some dirty dirty You know what this? How do you do it? You know? So we had remember we talked right at the beginning. So we’re talking about a grand total of, you know, 13 minutes ago. What in the world, you know, did we talk about with Christie until today? That one of the things she said that gave me goosebumps was do this stupid shit. Absolutely get out there. And that’s a resolution that this is huge. For us. That’s exactly what we said,


Mallory Gordon  20:22

scared, don’t be scared of taking these little risks that can change how you feel about others how you feel about yourself, you know, opening your eyes to new experiences.


Mickey Gordon  20:33

Oh, wow. Well, and we’re gonna set the example we’re gonna set the example for our lifestyle friends. We’re gonna set it for our kids. We’re gonna set it for a lot of people this year, we’re going to amp up what we do on this show and our regular lives, which is be positive. Yeah, guys have noticed on our show, we focus on the funny we focus on the positives. That’s what we try to do. And you know, we do that for a reason, right? I mean, positive positivity is infectious. And if it is,


Mallory Gordon  20:57

it isn’t, it’s good for your mental state. It’s good for your overall health, and it’s good for the people around you.


Mickey Gordon  21:02

Yeah. So upcoming travel for us. If you guys don’t know we’re going to Jacksonville this weekend. So we’re going to go see our friends at pineapple parties. Maybe we’ll make our way back down to see kids for too long. Of course we get nowheresville, Illinois in March for Yeah, that’s right.


Mallory Gordon  21:15

Yeah, yeah, that’s a rascal wedding. We’re super excited. I think we booked our tickets and we’re gonna have like a commune house right with like a mini reunion the week after we get back from Jamaica, because we have that trip at the end of February.


Mickey Gordon  21:29

That’s right, we got so a February 2019. Again, it’s just kicking ass already. So if you guys want to travel with us at casual swinger, you can go to our website and it says travel with us. There’s a big old link, you can click on that. Enter your information and we’ll send you information about our upcoming trips, which right now I think we have February and November for Hito. But that kind of stuff and yeah, you’re welcome to travel. This will give you our travel agents information. That’s how that works. But, you know, without further ado, today’s episode Hito she wrote


Mallory Gordon  21:57

Hito she wrote that’s, you’re such a genius. I love that. That’s adorable. Yeah, he does. She wrote Miss Chris and Tilly. Fantastic interview wonderful lady. Like we said, if you haven’t read the book, buy the book, read the book. listen to the audio version of the book. Even if you never plan to go to Hito if you’re never gonna go haven’t been. It’s hilarious. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  22:22

Yeah, she’s I mean the books fantastic. The book is how I introduced Mallory into the lifestyle into Hito. And I just handed her the book.


Mallory Gordon  22:28

It was the second step in the process. Okay, we all know the first time did nasil you’re just up to it man. I digress.


Mickey Gordon  22:38

But check this interview out. This lady is so bad as you know, lots of guys say that their celebrity crushes Scarlett Johansson or, or Jessica Biel or Jessica Alba mine is Chrissy until he she is just a whoop ass writer and she wrote The Definitive Guide to hedonism too. But not just that she is a classy classic example of what a lady should be in the lifestyle and in the in the, in the writing space and in the just the hedonistic just I don’t know she’s everything you hope you can be and she’s been going to the resort since she was 24 years old. 24 years old. And you know, she told us how old she was. I’m not buying I am not buying it either. And I’m never gonna say it out loud. I will not either but she did and you’re gonna find out about it here in just a minute. But I do want to tell everybody how they can find this one quick time before we jump the interview.


Mallory Gordon  23:28

Alright guys, if you’re looking for us, you can find us at www casual swinger calm. Questions feedback. Hit us up at podcast at casual swinger calm. You can find this as casual swinger just about everywhere that’s s ds or sorry, SLS STC Cassady Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and if I forgot something else got OpenSSL Yeah. A little over a year.


Mickey Gordon  23:55

That’s right. Happy New Year guys. This is Chrissy and Tilly in the Naked Truth About hedonism two, you’re listening to casual swinger. Welcome back to casual swinger, everybody. We’ve got a special surprise for you today. Very excited, guys. So we have a beautiful young lady by the name of Chris and Tilly joining us today, Missy until you How are you?


Chris Santilli  24:35

Hi, I’m doing great. And thank you for calling me young and beautiful. I’m going to go with that.


Mickey Gordon  24:41

So you are an author, you’re a professor, your guest of the resort down at Hito. I mean, you’ve got a lot of things going on for you. And you’ve got a really special thing that we’re going to be introduced into our guest today, which is the new version of your book


Chris Santilli  24:57

that I’m excited about too. It’s always a fun project when I get to update it. It’s a third edition. Finally, after 20 years.


Mickey Gordon  25:07

So you wrote the first version of this book back in 1998. Right?


Chris Santilli  25:12

Yes. 1998, the first version of travel humor book, it’s called the Naked Truth About hedonism to.


Mickey Gordon  25:21

Okay, that’s that. I mean, that book, obviously, our listeners know how much we love hedonism, too. But they also know, your book is how I introduced Mallory to Hito the lifestyle. I mean, there’s a lot of things that your book did in our lives. So having you here, I gotta tell you, you’re my celebrity crush. So you’re pretty cute.


Mallory Gordon  25:49

That book was pivotal in that moment in my life, to give me the confidence to at least explore the idea of going to a place like that, and it changed everything.


Mickey Gordon  26:00

Yeah, it’s massive.


Chris Santilli  26:02

I mean, that’s wrong. It changed my life to the competence that gives ladies I think, is what makes it such a draw for people. The girl at the owners, you know, absolutely.


Mickey Gordon  26:15

Well, before we dig into the resort and the book and all these things, because said, This is huge. I want to start with, why do we have Chris Santoli, the author of The Naked Truth About hedonism to on casual swinger? There’s a brand new book, right? It’s the third edition of this book. We love the resort. We talk about the resort here on our show, and we thought it would be fantastic to have you come on here, number one, promote your book a little bit and tell people about it. But we would also love people to know more about you. So. Okay, I’d like to start with our first question for you today, which is about you, the author? How long have you been a writer? Right? And what made you want to become a storyteller in the first place?


Chris Santilli  26:56

Well, I think, frankly, it’s one of my only job skills beyond my offered Hitchcock impressions, and I do a darn good mosquito too, terribly. never gotten me a date. But beyond secretarial skills, if I’m going to be typing all the time, I figured I better have something to say. That’s why I’m a writer.


Mickey Gordon  27:17

That’s awesome. What so your biases your your professor as well. I mean, do your students read your work? Did they ask you


Chris Santilli  27:28

know, I’ve been hiding when I got married I I took my husband’s name 10 years ago, but I published under my maiden name. And my students can’t find me on the internet anymore, which is kind of fun. But I they do read my work, but not my hedonism stories. They read stories about how I write about manscaping for the Chicago Tribune, or something like that. And they cringe and grin at bat. So I would hate to have them see the actual book itself. That would be a little much for them. I’m sure. They don’t it’s kind of fun that they can’t find me on the internet anymore, because I always kind of give them hints that I write naughty stuff. And I always tell them, well, it’s not masturbatory, and then they get word masturbation and all that. But they can’t figure out how to find me on the internet because they don’t know my maiden name.


Mickey Gordon  28:25

Yet no, that’s I mean, I mean, think about their creativity. They maybe they don’t want to read it and maybe they’re like, Oh my god, what she writing about but at the same time, they don’t realize what a pro you are.


Chris Santilli  28:37

I your time, you know, they say you know those who can’t do they teach? That would be me to teach them that, you know, in any college that you’re supposed to be a subject matter expert, so I every year I get a little better at it. 58 right now and so work in it this


Mickey Gordon  28:57

way, you don’t look a day over 25


Chris Santilli  29:02

like how the alcohol spades are I power? Yeah, it’s always a good thing.


Mickey Gordon  29:06

And I just got to sit there, though. I love in the glass. Nice. Was it so when you teach your kids about writing? Um, are you teaching because you know, this book is a travel guide. It’s also a humorous look at the resort. So when you teach what do you teach you teach journalism do you teach photojournalism? I mean, because your degrees are in photojournalism. Right? So


Chris Santilli  29:31

like to teach journalism, however, I’ve been teaching English, which I like to call, hey, I teach writing because that sounds so much more sexy. And then some people think it’s writing like in a horse, and then it sounds really sexy. I’m teaching essay writing and term paper writing for the most part, and they have to follow my list of 20 writing tips. Otherwise they get C’s or less on their papers. It’s really a vicious vicious class and they either love me or they hate And they all say that I’m tough as nails so it’s just fun for me to torture them and then of course I do get to teach them about girls have three holes down there not to know these. The class want to make basic anatomy. Yeah, they need to know I’ve met 50 year old men who don’t know that.


Mickey Gordon  30:24

Oh yeah, we do have a tendency towards being obtuse as men once we find the GO GO button and then we just kind of focus on it. There’s nothing.


Chris Santilli  30:32

Yeah, I’ve met women to to their butts. I’m like, no, not quite.


Mickey Gordon  30:38

Well, the last trip to Hito that we took just before we saw you, it was like squirt a Palooza there was the squirting episode. It’s not like a reunion. Right? Yeah, that was something I’d never seen on the beach. You know. And as you know, I’ve seen a lot of things down there. Mallory and I have seen things down there that make your toes curl.


Chris Santilli  30:58

so badly, they do end up like in a participatory sport, where you had everybody performed or over the distance, another group that was just doing


Mallory Gordon  31:07

it was a medley of several different groups and people we knew in general, I have a desire to participate, but I don’t think I’m one of those lucky girls. So


Chris Santilli  31:17

I me too, I’m not so much like you there. I’d like to use of Mallory’s word medley. That’s a medley. I just wrote that down. I want to use.


Mickey Gordon  31:35

That’s perfect. And we don’t consider that. thievery. It is creative plagiarism. Absolutely.


Chris Santilli  31:44

Research is stealing from many. Plagiarism is stealing from one. You guys sound like the last parts of history of the world?


Mickey Gordon  31:56

Well, so tell us about what made you want to write the Naked Truth. I mean, what inspired you about the resort or the people? What drove you to say I have to take this thing that I feel and give it to everybody?


Chris Santilli  32:11

Okay, if First off, it wasn’t about me, it’s number one, I write for a living. So you’re supposed to write about what you know. And by the by 98, when the first edition of the book came out, I’ve been going there since 85. So I knew a lot about the place, I kind of grew up with it, because I started when I was 24. And since you write about what you know, and at the same time, there was that strange thing you may have heard of it. It’s called the internet. And it was blossoming in the mid to late 1990s. And so there was all these people talking to each other until I had easy access to people writing things down on the internet until I could ask their permission to use their written opinions. And that kind of started me off. Because I wanted the book to be everybody’s voice, not just mine, because I have my impressions, but everybody else has different ones. And I wanted to make sure I included them all. And the book became like the source of putting it all together in one spot.


Mickey Gordon  33:13

Oh, that’s fantastic. So you said 1985 is when you went the first time. I was 24 years old.


Chris Santilli  33:20

I was a baby girl had never been naked before.


Mickey Gordon  33:23

Wow. So was it still hedonism to back then? Yeah,


Chris Santilli  33:28

yes, it started out as the grill beach village in 1976. But in 1981, it changed into humanism to because the word hedonism was the motto of the first hotel, liberal beach village. So it didn’t really change. It just changed its name. And the ownership with the government has kind of changed a little more so that the one guy who ended until 2013 candidate in his hot little hand by 1981 all his own.


Mickey Gordon  34:01

So hedonism to is a place but hedonism is an emotion or a feeling, right?


Chris Santilli  34:07

That’s philosophy of life. That pleasure is the ultimate good.


Mickey Gordon  34:13

Check that out. That’s really neat. Yeah. In the middle of the Caribbean,


Chris Santilli  34:19

right. Some tour agency I went to I was going to go to a Club Med out in, I’ve been to one or two club beds already at that point. And they were cool, because that was a sweet and single days of Club Med, or the end of the swinging single days. And I was going to try the one in Thailand, being a good than Catholic, Italian firstborn, an only girl of Italian parents. I had to stay live at home at that point when I was 24. And so I said, Mom, I want to go to Thailand. And she said no, I don’t think that’s a good idea. And I said well, there’s this other option and all inclusive resort in Jamaica and cheap I go to Jamaica, we’ve been to Jamaica, it’s lovely. You’ll like it there. So my mother who never has read my book and won’t even say the word hedonism correctly, she goes Hedden ism. She ido actually, and she will never forgive herself, but she’s dead now. So that’s okay.


Mickey Gordon  35:26

My mom, sorry, if your


Chris Santilli  35:31

mother growing up, she just became problematic later, but who cares? So


Mickey Gordon  35:35

well, so are on the third edition of this book,


Chris Santilli  35:41

why things change. We, the owner changed in 2013. So five years ago, a man named Carrie lane bought the place. And he has an interesting history. And he basically bought his favorite toy, and he’s made changes to this hotel, this resort. It still does a lot of the things it did before. But it’s upgraded to the enth degree in comparison. I mean, in the old days, we wouldn’t have hot water, we wouldn’t have electricity, you know that all the rooms had candles in them. And it wasn’t for throwing wax on each other, even though some people thought it was. Oh, yeah. And now we have two generators and electricity goes out for 10 minutes. That’s a big deal. And for people get pregnant, like the dark. Nothing happened too often.


Mickey Gordon  36:32

That’s where Hito pregnancies came from?


Chris Santilli  36:35

Oh, absolutely. 10 minutes, blackout. 20. We all cheer when it goes out. And then we all cheer When it comes back on. Women are walking around dazed because they were fornication happening.


Mallory Gordon  36:51

That’s hilarious. So you self published your book? What does that mean? And did the nature of your book create any problems finding a publisher?


Chris Santilli  37:02

Not well, it was trouble finding a printer initially. So that that’s why I was glad that print on demand eventually happened because a lot of printer houses, there’s going to be a lot of people handling the book. And they don’t want to look at books with nude pictures in it because people equate nudity with pornography. So I had a problem finding a printer in the first place, but I sent finally did. And I found that self publishing is the way to go. Number one, you don’t have to give all your profits to a publisher, by self publishing, especially when you have a niche market book like this, that specifically a travel guide for hedonism, too. There’s a market that you can find if you can reach your own market, you don’t need a publisher. And I knew how to reach the market because


Mickey Gordon  37:54

a lot of things for you as a writer, then it gave you an access to an audience.


Chris Santilli  37:58

That’s exactly right. And so there was no point in making someone else be involved. And if you’re a writer, and you want to publish a book, and you want a publisher, you still have to do all the marketing for the book anyway. So why use the publisher?


Mickey Gordon  38:13

Yeah, why give away your money for nothing?


Chris Santilli  38:15

Yeah, it buys you credibility. But in this day and age, everybody’s self publishing so


Mickey Gordon  38:22

well, and so you are actually running into a bit of an issue right with one of the 100 pound gorillas in the book industry.


Chris Santilli  38:33

all over again. Now, Amazon who does my book print on demand? They are worried that this is pornography, and that I’m writing or erotic fiction. So all week long, I’ve been in a back and forth discussion with them trying to say Hello, this is a humor travel book. It’s nonfiction. And somebody decided that it’s erotic literature. And it’s naughty. And because of the naked pictures in it, they’re going to pull it possibly say that one more time.


Mickey Gordon  39:08

I said, How asinine is that? That’s, first of all, I guarantee you it’s not fucking fiction because Mallory and I were there for the story. We do recall some of the finest So you mentioned Harry Lang, Harry Lang, being the guy that that wrote in on the white horse with a group of other owners and took over the club from SuperClubs or the resort from SuperClubs. So that has led to an evolution at hedonism. And I call it an evolution because it has happened over the last few years things have been changing a little bit at a time a piece at a time. Tell us about that evolution and what sort of things are changing, from your perspective under Harry’s leadership, and that led you to write this new version of your book


Chris Santilli  39:59

right Oh my goodness. But back in about 2000, we were aging out, everybody was getting old and dying. And we’re thinking is this hotel going to last, and then suddenly it started to get a few more younger people. And that was good. And then in the last five years, that I think the age, average age has gone down by five to 10 years. So it’s no longer Upper 50s. It’s mid 40s is kind of the average age now. And it’s still going down more. And that’s how it started when it was back in the 80s. And 90s. It It was had the video for lower 40s was the average age, and now it’s coming back down just like that. And that adds so much more energy. And, frankly, with Harry there because he’s a big proponent of the lifestyle. And he is marketed it that way as more of a sexier place than it was before. Before it was kind of naughty. Now it’s sexy. Now it’s like life paddlers come on board. It’s, it’s more open, and it’s not so indirect. Even though people were getting it on just as much in the old days. Just they weren’t as quite as public about it. And, and what’s what I found different, you know, with this younger, sexier group, which is great. And you guys, for example, have this wonderful ideas of fun beach things you’re doing. But most groups are not being as playful or as foolish and silly and fun as your group. Because I’m thinking that they’re taking the sex thing a little bit too seriously. Some people have said to me, you’re not here to, you know, why aren’t you? Fucking me? You know, aren’t you here to fuck. And I’m like, I’m, I’m here. I’m enjoying myself. And I’m thinking, Wait a minute, this is not a football club. Why is that like, the Prime Directive? For some people, but not for all?


Mickey Gordon  41:59

Well, there are 24 hours in a day. You can’t fuck all day long. You got to do other stuff.


Chris Santilli  42:05

Yeah, you got to take that pause that refreshes. So it becomes interesting again.


Mickey Gordon  42:11

So that is an interesting evolution right now.


Mallory Gordon  42:15

Yeah, definitely the come one come all in putting that that it’s open to lifestyle. That’s a huge change. That’s not something when we got in the lifestyle together, what, 12 years ago that we’d seen. No, not at all. Yeah.


Chris Santilli  42:33

And apart from the lifestyle thing, Harry has made this more. He’s been basically added stars to the resort. It used to be camping, basically. You know, like I said, if you got the hot water.


Mickey Gordon  42:47

Get a party in your room.


Chris Santilli  42:49

Yeah, frankly, now we only get hot water when the pipes get messed up and it comes up through our toilet or we can steam the wrinkles out of our ass.


Mickey Gordon  42:59

Well, we call it the Hito shuffle. And it’s when you know the hot water comes and goes right at dinnertime.


Chris Santilli  43:05

Yeah, little dance. Depends on the room there. And I’m in the cheap rooms. And for some reason we get the good hot water closer to the water heater closer to the boil. Yeah, no,


Mickey Gordon  43:16

absolutely not in each block. It’s the Hito shuffle all day long.


Chris Santilli  43:20

Completely. I don’t go there anymore. But the infrastructure is old. But Harry’s has been trying to bring something new every single year to upgrade the experience. He’s improved the food incredibly, we have so many core brands of alcohol that are just there for the taking. Kind of scotch you want if he’s got it, that kind of thing. All the ROMs actually what was speaking of booze, what I found really funny is that back in the 90s and early 2000s everybody was drinking rum drinks. That was the raw booze of choice. Now it’s vodka. Everybody’s doing vodka. Oh, yeah. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  44:00

yeah, I have to agree. I think we see more people drinking vodka based drinks. Over there, and I think yes,


Mickey Gordon  44:08

it’s it’s got what it is. Potatoes. That’s what like carbs central what you would think so but run the sugar. So that’ll lead us. Yeah, well, and so that actually the drink conversation leads me to something. you publish a list of Hito drinks in your book.


Chris Santilli  44:32

And I just saw it pop up. Actually not in the book. I took it out of the book, the second edition. I published it separately as a gift to people who subscribe to my email list. And I put it on a group, a Facebook group. I posted it there for people so I took it out of the book actually used to be in the book. Oh,


Mickey Gordon  44:54

well, I tell you, what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna put a link to your email list in our show notes. So anybody listening to this episode that wants to go and get this list of amazing drink recipes from Tilly, you can do that. And you have to subscribe to our mailing list to do it. So


Chris Santilli  45:12

great. I do want to know what your favorite drink is on that list though. List. Excellent. There’s a jello shop. That is my favorite. It tastes like lemon coke. It’s black cherry jello with rum as the booze. And that tastes like rum and coke. No shit. No kidding. Yeah, really kind of freaky. But it works beautifully. It’s my favorite. But my favorite drinks are not on that list. I like what I call a Chris. Chris. depending on the time of day, because I have to take my alcoholic specifically for different parts of the day. The Chris, this is pineapple rum with a splash of grapefruit. And then the Chris is rum cream on ice with a splash of club soda on top. It tastes like a New York egg cream.



Wow. Interesting.


Mickey Gordon  46:09

All right, let’s try some of these drinks.


Chris Santilli  46:11

Yeah, I’ll try to teach the bartenders that Chris, Chris kiss, because the old bartenders knew my drinks. But now they got so many new ones they have to retrain them.


Mickey Gordon  46:21

Well. You have been going to Hito for a very long time. And you’re I mean, we’re a lifestyle podcast. Obviously. We, when we travel to the resort, we’re with a group that is not purely lifestyle. But we have a lot of lifestyles, and we do a lot of things that are and are not. But my question for you is as a person that has been going for a long time, over the last few years, we have seen Harry make a turn toward a more lifestyle friendly vibe with things like the play room and, and yeah, events. How do you how do you think that’s gonna be received by new and longtime guests the resort of like,


Chris Santilli  46:56

okay, there’s two different audiences. If you ask me, I think the new people are coming in expecting this. I think this is why they’re coming to hedonism. They’re like, we’re on the playrooms, what’s going on? We want to be naughty, and not talking everybody differences, of course. And then there’s other people like the old timers who keep it, possibly more private overall, but they’re still getting it on. And they’re still just as many lifestyles from that group. Who are we kidding? Is the age out or die, which happened? Oh, my God.


Mickey Gordon  47:33

Your mom’s calling to them?


Chris Santilli  47:35

I know calling from the grave. They just tend to be more discreet, I think. Because you don’t really have to step over copulating couples, you can step around them easily. I don’t think it’s a problem. And like I said, there is that expectation that I think Harry, the new owner is trying to develop that sense of now we are more lifestyle friendly. come on board. I think everybody’s getting what they’re expecting.


Mickey Gordon  48:03

I think so


Mallory Gordon  48:03

I like that. So getting back to the book. So you’ve added an updated this third version. So how did you decide which stories made the cut and which ones to include?


Chris Santilli  48:15

That’s, that’s a tricky one. Because so many people come up to me, I got a story, I got a story. And then they describe this great sexual adventure with this exotic person. And then five more people joined in. And then what happened, they came. It’s not a punchline, I am not going to do rah rah didn’t, we all got to have a punch line to it. So the orgasm stories don’t make it an even though there’s lots of sex stories in there. They’ve got to have something funny going on, or at least a torque of the words. And some stories are just too visual. Or they’re too oral a at AU ra elder in the year. Like I tell a joke as a dolphin joke, but you can’t write it down. You have to hear it. Because it’s the sound of a dolphin that makes the joke funny. So some stories just lend themselves to words or visual pictures that you can paint. But again, I always have to talk people


Mickey Gordon  49:16

are Yeah, well, that kind of goes back to there’s that old saying, well, maybe you had to be there for it to be funny or for it to be inspiring or interesting. And I think when we tell our stories about the resort or our travels, or the rascals or whatever the things that we do with it that are Hito centric. Everybody goes, God I feel like I need to do this. Like I feel like I’m there. And it’s I think that’s how much the resort touches people on that visceral level. That the stories that they tell aren’t simply oral, they aren’t.


Chris Santilli  49:46

You know, you didn’t have to be there to get it. I’m Nikki you can’t discount your ability to tell a good story. Let’s let’s give you some credit. There you are master.


Mickey Gordon  49:58

Maybe that’s it, but I’d like to give it away. Ready to heat? Oh, cuz I love the damn place. It’s fun, you know? And you kind of told us what it was like back in the day when you went to Tahiti the first time back in the 80s that it was like camping and no hot water. But here’s something that I’m curious about. Do you miss what it was back then? Do you miss those days?


Chris Santilli  50:20

Frankly, yeah, I was younger. I was hot. I was cute. I was a single girl, not among all middle aged married woman. The only advantage being I got fat into my kids got bigger. No, you know, it’s, I miss the excitement of what used to be the piano bar. It’s changed. It’s a different ambience in there. I miss, you know, like I said, being the young girl. And the one thing I miss most of all, is because so many things have been added to the resort. You know, you have different places you can eat for dinner for lunch. There’s different places you can go. There’s TVs in the room. Now we didn’t have those. There’s phones in the room, we didn’t have those things that can distract people in mbf WiFi, so people can spread out over the whole resort more. And with over 500 maximum people. When you spread them out, you lose a certain amount of energy, and having proximity made for the incredible group energy of the old days that I think we’re kind of missing sometimes. For example, last I think it was November, then a whole cruise boat of 700 makeup people coming converge on the hotel. True. Yeah. And that added so much energy to the place because you had enough bodies in one spot.


Mickey Gordon  51:44

That’s more bodies than I’ve ever seen it here. Oh,


Chris Santilli  51:47

yeah. It’s over twice without hotel can normally hold. And that adds a lot of good Juju, you know, I did


Mickey Gordon  51:56

a really bad it was an amazing vibe. Well, your, your your hosts here were the hosts of the pool party that day. So we hosted that pool party.


Chris Santilli  52:05

Did you put this out when you did your guitar hero. Okay, that


Mickey Gordon  52:08

was Guitar Hero. That’s great. Yeah. I love that. It’s a good one. We’ve got to come up with a new twist on that. We’ve got some ideas for coming up in February to do some stuff, but I don’t know. I think it’s gonna be pretty cool. All right, no


Chris Santilli  52:25

doubt. If you’re in charge. I’m not worried about it one bit. God,


Mallory Gordon  52:31

we love you so much. So before I get I had a question about vinnies and Wally’s that you read about in the book, because I remember reading through and looking at these descriptions and anticipating you know, running into these men at the resort. And we saw one here and there. But as a reasonably I’m not I don’t know if I still see that vibe, like from single guys. What was your take on that?


Chris Santilli  52:55

I agree with you completely. I in fact that that section of the book used to be really big, and now it’s less than half that size. They’re not really a problem. You’ll get one Wally, some old guy who likes to lurk and watch, and you’ll get the very rare lynnie that we call them. Those are the young guys. You know, hey, you want to see my junk? You come in the room with me and you seen my job? You know,


Mickey Gordon  53:23

I was so hoping you would describe them. I love it. That’s one of my favorite parts of the book when I read it the first time well, so Wally’s back in the day, like when I first started going, were guys jerking off in the bushes. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much stroking and then we had one. Did you ever run gym and refill sports? That’s great. You just stand on the beach jerky?


Chris Santilli  53:45

Oh, cheese. I’m not surprised. There’s more Wally’s than beneath these days. Definitely. At least they have grace to get naked. But masturbation is not good. Unless there’s people involved with the exercise.


Mickey Gordon  53:58

Wait, you’re describing my sex life in high school? Okay. Weren’t we all there? That’s fantastic.


Chris Santilli  54:06

I was worried when I was 16. I masturbated every single day of my life. I was like, well, this never end. I must. I must. nights in white satin, less than three minutes and 16 seconds. I could go from a quote, start of the warp engines and rub that baby up and go boom. I’m done. Thank you very much can fall asleep though.


Mickey Gordon  54:28

Yeah, I tell people all the time. masturbation is not a marathon. It’s a sprint. So yeah. So you know, and I read I mean, I’m sitting here looking at your first edition on my bookshelf. Third Edition. The skinny one. Yeah. Oh, that’s crap. Don’t read that one. And she has the second edition in your third edition. Here. I don’t know Friday. Cool. Did you get the color of the black and white color. Come on. Yeah, we’ve got to support our favorite author. But, you know, I remember in your book, this is something I say all the time, all the time, that when people ask me, you know what it’s like to get naked, and what it’s like to be on the beach and what it’s like to be around all these swingers and he’s, and what happens if your grandfather’s around I ask all these questions, but I tell him, forget all of it. All right. The second hardest thing you do is take your clothes off. The hardest thing you do is putting them back on. I got that from you


Chris Santilli  55:34

know, I stole it from the nudists Judas have said that for decades and decades. I’m not original. I told you I steal from any


Mickey Gordon  55:43

will tell us about your first time stepping on that beach and taking your clothes off. How long did it take you and how scared were you?


Chris Santilli  55:50

Okay, I’m a real loser. Let me give the truth here. I when I was 24, and I went I didn’t know there was a nude beach on the other side of the hotel. I was having so much fun on the prude beach and hanging out. And then by the end of the day, I’d see all these people I had never seen all day and I was wondering, who are they in? Where did they come from? Did they sleep in all day? No, they were down at the other end and didn’t even know there was another end. So I was completely dressed kruti for four trips. I didn’t. I’m not a wandering kind of girl. I don’t wander I just kind of I’d have a place to be I am here. So Oh my God, I was so embarrassed for myself when I finally figured it out. And it dawned on me they’re having way more fun down there than they are down here. So I stroll down there one day and like oh my god, so I did topless on my fourth trip. And then finally I went naked on my fifth. I was remember I was raised Catholic. I believe that if you were naked, you were a bimbo. Now granted on my first trip, I had four men and four days. But that’s beside the point. I don’t want to tell people that


Mickey Gordon  57:00

1000s of listeners.


Chris Santilli  57:02

Yes, thank you very much. But that was 24. So that’s like a whole lifetime ago. Yeah. It’s like the other person. And I was different. Because I became like, big and strong like womanly, and I can tell man, I don’t want that. What am I gonna do floss my teeth with it? No. Yeah. When they’re shaking it at me going you want this? much. So yeah, if I was stupid, I was young. At the first pajama party. I went they had pajama parties back then. That was the thing and the disco. I had my mother’s night gown on. Because it was the sexiest thing on this planet. Right? It’s a little short, soaking nightgown covered everything. And somebody walked up to me and tried to tie up the sides or more of my thigh would show and I said, No, no, no. Can’t do that. Oh, no, no. See? It’s like oh, forgot. I got over this. And goodness. Most people don’t take as long as I did. I was a slow learner. Oh, no. This was my first trip. But like I said, format in four days. One of them was one of the coordinators. Yeah. Oh, hell yeah. And then he gave me crabs. Thank you very much later I got it again. My mother did not let me sit on the furniture for four months.


Mickey Gordon  58:26

To do today, though, right, because nobody has any hair done.


Chris Santilli  58:29

Right, right. It’s not an issue. God I had a bush like Maxim wishes Maximus. Oh, Lord, people were amazed at the size of my bush. It was ridiculous. But now I keep a little puff. I have virgin proof that I have never removed but you know all around it. It would be naked.


Mickey Gordon  58:51

But the landing strip. That is I have a little nose tickler that’s about it. My dad used to call this mustaches womb broom. Oh, I like that. That’s a classic two. Oh, well as a classic. Hey, still have your daddy. Today the resort uses the tagline. Pursue pleasure? Yeah, it used to be be wicked for a week. The I think that either of those are more or less appropriate today. And if you could pick something different, what would it be?


Chris Santilli  59:30

Okay. I think both of them still work beautifully. I loved the wicked for a week. That was what from the 90s I think and they had beautiful ads and Playboy magazine back when playboy was a thing. But if I were going to pick a model, I would probably say something like, instead of the wicked for a week I’d say be wrecked for a week. Because totally. Your brain falls off on your shoulder and you have to wipe it in and you think it’s suntan lotion and then your brains like And like, everybody goes home to their kids, like, I get a head cold because I kiss too many people.


Mallory Gordon  1:00:08

I do joke in this household that, you know, when you come back from a cold, it’s like, Whoa, I wonder if I got that from the air conditioner. And then you think about the people you kiss and the people you arrived a week and probably wasn’t the AC? Oh, no.


Mickey Gordon  1:00:21

communal lips?


Chris Santilli  1:00:24

Absolutely. And enough communal drinking. Oh, let me try that when the disease spreads.


Mickey Gordon  1:00:34

One of the things about the resort that has always stood out. And when I talk to people, again, I take a lot of my information from your books on this stuff. But is their infamous return rate rate that the return customer rate is is there, they’re blaming, you know, fate, the best return in the industry.


Chris Santilli  1:00:53

Now in the in the Caribbean, in the Caribbean, that’s when they used to be higher, I think for the whole world. But I think they made that up. And now it’s just they can verify for the Caribbean, they have the highest repeat rate,


Mickey Gordon  1:01:03

or highest repeat customer rate. Now, they made some changes that were pretty unpopular on some of the boards that you and I are both members of Oh, yeah. That was the 14 three program where you went 14 days and you got three days free. They took that away for 2019. Do you think that is going to have a major impact on attendance? And And what about that attorney return rate? I mean, are people only going to go for a week now instead of coming back for those next eight to 10 days? Or what do you think spends a lot of


Chris Santilli  1:01:32

there’s a lot of threats like that I do not think it will matter much to be honest. Unfortunately, a lot of us ranted and raved and wrote our angry letters. And I think we’ve been grandfathered for 2019 if we already booked our 14 days. So that’s one concession they made. But I think our party’s over. And I think that the new crowd coming in, doesn’t know about 14 three or use it very often, as the young people can’t get as much time off as this old farts. They don’t have as much money as the old farts. So they’ve come in just once a year anyway. So I don’t think it’s going to matter much and especially as the turnover. Frankly, the old farts are dying. We’re dying, and we’re not coming anymore because we’re can’t walk around. I mean, I’m 58 I’m still walking Oh, and I got a good 10 years, I’m good to be good. I know, hopefully 20 We’ll see. But in reality, when you’re when you’re in your 70s and 80s, you get tired sometimes of health takes its toll. But I think that it’s not going to matter much in the in the big picture. I think it’s going to be just fine. And people will be happy with their book 12 days and get $700 credit. I think that they will be happy with that.


Mickey Gordon  1:02:45

That’s interesting feedback. Right? Yeah, I have to agree. Well, I do have to say, though, that you’ve got 10 years left, I hope that I get to see you every single one of them sitting in a hot tub with me sharing stories from the dumb shit Mallory and I do down there. So


Chris Santilli  1:03:00

absolutely. I am going to be there. I promise. I’m not going anywhere.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:07

Well, go ahead. I’m getting back to the book. So how often do you get feedback from your readers and what the book did for them? And has that impacted you as a writer?


Chris Santilli  1:03:21

Oh my gosh, as a writer, no, it, it doesn’t change my writing per se it what it does, is it It’s gratifying to know that somebody likes your work, because we all need a little pat on the back. And we all need to be encouraged that what we’re doing is good. And it’s the heartwarming pneus of it makes me feel like I’m not going to go hide in or under a rock. I’m so grateful. It’s a life gratefulness. It’s like having purpose. And I did my purpose. Yeah, you know, it’s not sexy. But it’s feels good that I made a difference in the world. I don’t have children. So I have to make a difference somewhere. You pop out a book and people like it. That’s awesome.


Mickey Gordon  1:04:00

Love it. It definitely deserved. I mean, I do. I know so many people that see this book was life changer for him because it inspired them to take that leap. And for them, some of them that leap was just getting to the resort and for other people that resort was dropping that layer of clothes that led to that layer of personality and opening themselves up and it just their lives changed. Right. I mean, part of it was the resort but they never went without your book. So it’s it was seminal in our world. And I think it’s it’s certainly maintained that in some of the people we’ve met, which is which is crazy. So I have one more question for you from me. Before we get to the shameless plug portion of this, which we enjoy, but you know, plugs. So we talked about, you know, you missing the resort in what it was. And we’ve talked in this interview about you know, the new generation coming in Howdy there internet driven, and they’re a little younger and they’re different. But if you could pick a few things that you would tell new people coming to Hito that they have to do, or don’t miss? Or what could you tell them? What would you tell them as a longtime person who has things that you miss, and things that you appreciate about the new parts of the resort? What would you tell this, folks, a couple of things that, don’t miss it, you got to do it. You know, the best part of


Chris Santilli  1:05:30

the word God would say is good God, take a chance, risk being a fool. Get up on stage and do the stupid shit. Get up there and say the stupid shit. See how it goes. You’re going to you know, think a few times. But if you don’t shoot, you don’t score. And once you score, as then I’m not just talking about sec score. I’m talking about, like reading it all out there. We all love goofballs. We all love the extreme, funky, wild as people who are not harmful to others, we like to see something unusual. Bring it, baby, this is your place to be your shining star. So be it Don’t be afraid you’ll you’ll get untold competence. And when you have confidence, you suddenly love yourself more that makes you able to love others even more. That’s amazing. I love it. That’s beautifully put, I got goosebumps. I know we do. And I love that you used one of my phrases that even knowing it, because I tell people all the time when they come to us, you’re gonna do stupid shit with us? Yeah, you’re gonna feel good about it. Yeah, you feel great about it. It’s amazing. Let’s do this shameless plug, let’s tell people where they can find your book, and what version is available in and how they can get it. For the free more days, until I’m kicked off Amazon, what I recommend is the best way to find it is going through my website actually, that way, all the versions will come up. And my website is Chris santoli.com. So there’s two s’s in the middle where Chris and Sam Tilly bump into each other. But then you just click the buy the book bump, Buck button, button, and you get off four versions, there’s two print versions, one in color, which is insanely priced, and then the black and white one, which is the same price as 20 1520 years ago. And then there is an audio book with no pictures. And then there is the E book, which comes in a Kindle, and an E pub version, and all of those you can find from my website. And of course, because I have the links to Amazon, and I have the links to all the other places you get to all the places you can buy these things. If you’re interested, and then all these places, and my website tells you about them. Is that a good plug? That’s a great plug. Okay, shall we do the Chris santoli.com. One more time to see HR is tricky. Name, s n E n, t o.com. That was perfect. Pop, I’m



saying it, I



love it.


Mickey Gordon  1:08:20

We’re gonna put that link in the show notes. And we’ll put the Amazon link in there as well, just in case anybody wants to grab it in the next couple of days. But anything special editions that isn’t in another edition.


Chris Santilli  1:08:32

Yeah, the color book has 20 extra pages and about a dozen extra pictures. All the words are the same. The ebook, if you have an ebook reader that has it could read color pictures, the E book, both versions, the E pub and Kindle both common color, but not with the extra 20 pages where the color pictures. And the audio book has four different actors doing the book. It’s really kind of fun to listen to it. That’s awesome. Excellent. I might have to listen to the audio version of my next trip.


Mickey Gordon  1:09:06

I don’t guarantee you I will. It’s it’s always fun hearing stories, especially because you know some of these stories do include Mallory and I. But y’all hearing stories about yourself as narrated by somebody else.


Chris Santilli  1:09:18

I enjoyed listening to my purported voice by that done by these actors, two women and two men, and they’re really good.


Mickey Gordon  1:09:25

Oh, wow. All right, and definitely looking forward to that. Well, it goes without saying Missy until we adore you. We love your friendship. We love what you’ve done for a place that we love. But also, there’s a lot of people that we’ve met that we never would have met if you hadn’t done this because they came to the resort because of your book and for our listeners out there. You know, I hope that they’ve enjoyed hearing, you know from the lady write that you wrote the guide, you wrote the definitive book on how to and that’s it. I just think it’s funny and I hope everybody enjoyed this as much as Mallory, and I did Hey, guys, Rob grinning ear to ear. I’m gonna see you in November. You catch it earlier? You betcha. And if anybody’s got any questions, you know, feel free to reach out to us and Mallory wants to tell everybody how they can find us before we go to a break and let poor Missy until he get on with your day.


Mallory Gordon  1:10:18

Excellent guys, you guys can find us at www casual swinger.com if you want to send us an email with your questions hit us up at podcast at casual swinger. And we are casual swinger everywhere else. SLS Cassady Twitter, Facebook SDC,


Mickey Gordon  1:10:35

well Instagram, so many damn places missing until we want to thank you so much for your time and everybody else. We’ll be back soon you’re listening to casual swinger. Welcome back everybody to casual swinger. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Chrissy and Tilly. That is such a big deal for us.


Mallory Gordon  1:11:08

It was and I’m just so grateful. She took the time out of her schedule out of her life to sit here and chat with us. And I always leave those conversations feeling like a better person because she’s so infectious and positive, but forthcoming and straightforward. I mean, no bones about it. I mean, how many times did she tell us those guys were dying off and like


Mickey Gordon  1:11:28

my dead mom and blood, I think is snorted and seized and like cried and I choked. I was trying to get my water in it. Yeah, you know, and not just that, me She is unabashedly about talking about sex and talking about life and everything else. So much fun. We hope you guys enjoyed as much as we do. We’re going to jump into one of our segments that we call cocktail corner, that’s my little corner of the universe. And normally, here’s where I talk about a drink. And I give you guys a recipe and I talk about the history of the drink. But my friend Christine Tilly, I call her my friend now because you know, he’s your friend, she does adore you, too. So sweet. She’s my favorite. But my friend Chrissy until he puts together a list, an official list of hedonism drinks. And these are some of her favorites. But there’s like 30 drinks on this list. All complete with recipes, how to make them. This is the definitive must have list, if you’re going to have a party, a pool party, a yard party,


Mallory Gordon  1:12:24

anything I mean, now that the holidays are over, and you know, maybe you’re planning some special events, or maybe you’ll be hosting some events, maybe you’re you’re having people over. There are some great easy recipes in there that make fantastic drinks. And you can impress them. Because these aren’t all drinks, you’re going to find the local haunt


Mickey Gordon  1:12:43

gap. So this list, I’m going to tell you how to get it because I’m going to post a link in the show notes. And I’m also going to put a banner under our friends page on casual swinger Comm. So I’m going to put that banner up there, you go there and sign up for her mailing list at Chris Santoli calm. Let’s see ch ri es es ANTILLI chrissi until e.com, sign up for her mailing list. And it’s a free gift. When you sign up for her mailing list. Now, Chris doesn’t spam people, right? That’s a big deal. Not at all. She wasn’t even she just a little you know, like, I’m not even sure if I should tell everybody about this interview on my mailing list because I don’t like to send them too much stuff. But that’s a great mailing list to be on. We’re on it. And we get great info from her on the regular including how to get that awesome book she wrote on audio book, to buy it on Amazon to buy it on her website and some of the special stuff you get when you buy it from her. So go to the show notes, or Christine tilly.com. If you go to the show notes, you’ll get a link to Christie until e.com. Go to our website under our friends. And that will take you to Christie until the.com sign up for her sign up for her mailing list and you will get this list of 30 drinks. So that’s actually what I’m giving you for cocktail corner today is sign up for this mailing list and you’re going to get no less than 30 drinks that you can make at your parties this spring. Because I know some of you fuckers are cold out there right now. It’s 82 degrees in Florida. Yes, I’m bragging. But you can get some of these drinks for those spring and summer parties you guys have coming up and make sure you go pick up this book, even if you’ve never even if you’re not thinking about going to eat. Oh, it’s funny. It is it’s a like I said it’s a great read. It is I mean it


Mallory Gordon  1:14:27

the resort aside and I mean it does provide the place to be amused for these stories to happen. But there’s nothing no other books out there like this. No,


Mickey Gordon  1:14:38

no, nothing like this at all. But guys, that’s it for us here on casual streaming. already. I know it feels like a waste of time. I know. But you know we have had a ball. We’ve had a great weekend. We’ve had a great start to our new year. And we hope you all did the same but we want to hear your stories we want to hear from you. So come see us on casual swinger calm and leave us some Comments, send us your information. Mallory is going to tell you here in just a second how you can do that. But most importantly, do us a solid. We don’t have hardly any reviews on iTunes and how that happens. Somebody should hate us by now. We should have some ease. Everyone just didn’t different. Maybe they’re indifferent. Maybe they just like fucking we don’t care that somebody should hate us. We have been I’ve talked about enough midgets that there should be an angry short person somewhere. It’s is it little people?


Mallory Gordon  1:15:28

I think you just should not say the word. Anyways, if you guys have questions, comments feedback, outside of the iTunes review, which we would appreciate, you can find us and contact us or email us podcast at casual swinger calm. Our website is www casual swinger calm. And you can find us at casual swinger on STC SLS Cassidy, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.


Mickey Gordon  1:15:53

There’s that list. Happy New Year everybody go get you some you’ve been listening to casual swinger? Hi,


Cuckoldress Venus  1:16:57

I’m Venus from the Venus calculus podcast and I have a special message for all of the single ladies listening. What if you could have a loving, committed partner who wants to stay totally faithful to you, but who would love to see you have incredible experiences with others? It sounds too good to be true, right? It is true. You really can have it all and be loved, celebrated and even put on a pedestal. Learn more at Venus connections.com