Hey, Jealousy! – The “Big Green Monster” inside us all

Recent Podcast

Casual Swinger Recommends

Casual Toys



Rachal’s Rascals

Hedonism II



Hearing impaired? This podcast is transcribed for your convenience.

Edit Content


SE03E19 – Hey Jealousy_mixdown

Fri, 8/27 5:28PM • 1:05:25


jealousy, feel, people, lifestyle, conversation, casual, fucking, couple, porn, swinger, talk, profile, person, happen, cheating, point, shit, envy, listening, toys


Mickey Gordon, Mallory Gordon


Mallory Gordon  00:02

You’re listening to the casual swinger podcast as your hosts, we need to warn you that the material you’re about to hear may be sexual or explicit in nature. This podcast is intended for an adult audience. Now we don’t expect you to act like adults. What’s the fun in that?


Mickey Gordon  00:16

We’re a married couple living in Florida with over 13 years of experience in the lifestyle and we take almost nothing seriously. Casual swingers a variety show meaning we’ll cover everything from music to events, travel, and even the occasional hilarious screw up. Our show is about entertainment. We’re not licensed professionals had anything and our stories, commentary and guidance should not be confused with the opinions of a licensed professional. Now that you know, let’s take those pants off and get comfy. Hey there everybody. Welcome back for another episode of casual swinger. My name is Mickey. Hi, Mickey. I’m Mallory. Nice to meet you. And it was my speaking in cursive voice It was a redhead tuber is require this hobby zone. So Are y’all jealous?


Mallory Gordon  01:07

I’m very jelly that your glass is half full. And mine is half empty.



Well, you drink faster than I do. Do jealousy. Hmm. I’m not singing you’re not saying Have you been singing for the last five years now? I know. And I heard it. I heard the playback. It’s not good.


Mickey Gordon  01:21

Not cute, huh? Hey, we’re gonna talk about jealousy. This episode is Hey, jealousy, the big green monster and relationships. And yes, this thing has been done before. I think every swinger lifestyle podcast out there has done an episode on jealousy. We’re gonna kind of take it from a different angle


Mallory Gordon  01:36

we are. And we’re gonna use a real life example. When I say real life. We read it online haha. But we’re gonna assume that it’s real, because I think it paints a really good picture of jealousy. ethics, also envy. So we’re gonna include envy in this conversation, which often I feel gets confused with jealousy. Yeah, because we all know that there’s no such thing as jealousy in the lifestyle. It doesn’t happen. Oh, no, never. Never. Not us. Hat, right. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  02:02

Yeah. So we’re going to talk a little bit tonight about a guy that did make a mess at home by getting busted having a lifestyle dating profile. We did see it online. But frankly, we’ve seen it in the real world, too. We’ve actually been approached by you know, married guys and things like that are like, hey, just just want to see pictures. Your wife? Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  02:17

Oh, shit. We heard about another situation where someone went on a date. And the two people have been married to someone else so late. That was this weekend. Yeah. So I mean, a lot of strange things happen even inside this community. And it can blur the line about ethics or just like, you know, I don’t know, take a fucking giant leap across it. Yeah. And get ethics all together and just go straight to skullduggery. Right. But I think jealousy versus envy and this conversation could be beneficial, enlightening, or waste your fucking time.


Mickey Gordon  02:47

Yeah, if nothing else, we’re just gonna sit around and make jokes and shoot the shit. And hopefully you have fun and hang out with us a little bit. But let’s talk about our world lately, because that’s kind of how we start every show. And this again, we got rid of the crappy ad section of the show. So we’re gonna talk about what we’ve been up to and what’s going on.


Mallory Gordon  03:00

Yeah, that sounds great. So we literally just got thrown with two really great friends friends. Oh my God, love these guys. I’m so excited. We have a rascal wedding this November. It Hito. So excited.


Mickey Gordon  03:15

Well, and you know, it’s funny, because we actually do you get to use her name. Ironically enough. We’re allowed to say her name because it’s technically not her name. Her name, say her name is starry. starry and her celebrity boyfriend. Yeah, there’s gonna be her husband, Tony Stark. Yes, Tony Stark himself. We are so excited. So these guys have been rascals forever. We’ve been friends with these guys forever. And they’re getting married in November on the rascal trip. And they just called us and asked us if we want to be a part of their wedding. Oh


Mallory Gordon  03:45

my god. I did not cry. super proud of myself, but I’m always crying. I’m really honored and I just can’t wait. They’re amazing humans. This is gonna be a fantastic day. I think we’re gonna end up partying all week long to celebrate this. So yeah,


Mickey Gordon  04:01

I tell you, I love those guys, because they are just so dynamic and interesting as a couple. She is so fucking glamorous. And just She looks like a pinup all the time. She’s just


Mallory Gordon  04:11

Yeah, she’s so smart. She does have like this like, um, air of like old school glamour. Yeah, that makes her like so classy. But she’s also so down to earth very, like good for him for locking that down.


Mickey Gordon  04:23

Yeah, right way to go, buddy. You know, I mean, Mr. Stark has just this. First of all, he’s actually because he’s so gregarious and so out there and we always play games like we’re trying to find him because he’s usually petting a dog somewhere right? We did a key west that one time through. And you know, when we talked about these guys, like this guy’s actually brilliant. He’s actually a maid. And we say we call him Tony Stark because he looks just fucking like the guy.


Mallory Gordon  04:49

He really does. And he has made not one, not two, but several complete sets of Iron Man armor literally by hand like 3d printing. Like the engineering the


Mickey Gordon  05:02

motorized masks and stuff in open and close and it’s crazy what the guy’s done.


Mallory Gordon  05:07

It’s beyond me What kind of skills go into this because there’s so many different facets and moving working parts to it. It’s just it’s it’s mind blowing, you


Mickey Gordon  05:14

know, initially, I just thought he had a lot of free time, but he doesn’t know really his skill. No, no, it’s it’s mind blowing. Yeah, so we get to be a part of these guys’s weddings. So we’re super excited about it. They just got I think that was they have I don’t know if they know what they’re into. Because I’m gonna make custom hats for me and my penis.


Mallory Gordon  05:32

Can I get it like a Merkin like something that I agree with her on your vagina ever? Okay, so not a Merkin. Can I get a veil? Sure. Okay, little veil. Right? We’ll have to figure it out. Yeah, y’all hold the bouquet there.


Mickey Gordon  05:46

It’s gonna be amazing. We cannot wait to be a part of that wedding. That’s gonna be in November. By the way. We do have a couple of rooms left for that trip. Not a lot. I think we’re down to like six rooms for the November I


Mallory Gordon  05:55

don’t even know but I know it’s we’re getting close to being sold out.


Mickey Gordon  05:59

We are. We got to book our tickets. By the way for that two things. The mental note when we go to bed. Well, maybe we’ll listen our own episode and be like, Oh, yeah, there’s the reminder. You


Mallory Gordon  06:07

guys, thanks for putting up with us. But yeah, so we’re going November rooms are almost gone. I was gonna say something and I lost my train of thought. So you go.


Mickey Gordon  06:16

Oh, sorry. I fucked up. But he’s speaking of hotels. What about the casual hotel? That thing has been bumping lately? Um, yeah, I


Mallory Gordon  06:23

feel really blessed. We get to see two of our favorite humans. Justin Derek recently, which was amazing. Oh my god, I just love them so much. And I try not to fan girl but I can’t help it.


Mickey Gordon  06:33

I know. And now now she’s posting some pictures on Twitter from you guys. A little photoshoot. And it’s just like every day I get to see each of you guys amazing, but I just want to like I offered to rub aloe on it with my face. You did? You’re I mean you’re just you’re kind of that offer stands Yes. If you’re listening Yes, you know but um, anyway no, but you know what the council you funny enough the casual hotel was busy for the last week and I’m in like six months somebody stated to casual hotel and didn’t have sex and our guest true


Mallory Gordon  07:03

now. No, but funny story. The tiny human that was here ended up dragging our liberty or liberate er s yes into his


Mickey Gordon  07:15

he literally pulls our Liberator s out of the media room and pulls it into the guest room that he’s sleeping in. Because he likes laying on it to play video games. She’s


Mallory Gordon  07:26

like this is the best bit like relaxation video game and reading chair I’ve ever had. And he asked his parents for one for Christmas. Yeah, so we told them about our toy store. Yeah, that was a great segue to casual toys


Mickey Gordon  07:41

calm where you too can have a liberator as of your very own for your child to play video games and yeah, oh my god. Anyway, what else are we doing where we’re heading somewhere here in alabaster scrotum is coming to town whoo Can’t wait and he’s bringing his spawn so his crotch goblins are going to be with him and he’s going to come down and we’re going to go to Jeep beach so if you guys are going to Jeep beach drop us a line somewhere and let us know we’re always down for a vanilla style beer on the beach with friends it’s got to be a laminate


Mallory Gordon  08:09

I’m gonna be drinking those lemonade truly is


Mickey Gordon  08:12

oh my god they’re suckers are amazing. What’s like I don’t I never thought I would say a seltzer was good


Mallory Gordon  08:18

yeah but it’s tasty it is and with me trying to you know stay on the skinny side of the the you know equation like Yeah, I was super impressed they were super flavorful and a little like vodka back


Mickey Gordon  08:32

socially settled like you know everybody’s worried about their summer body and their pee cap body and all that right now. I’m going for the when they look at me and they look at you the he’s got money body now they see your penis and they’re like we got it now. You’re clearly loaded guys stop at your sexy anyway. But now man if you guys are gonna be a Jeep beach Make sure to stop by and say hello Find us on the beach. You can actually look for the casual swinger flag casual toys flag Oh yeah, that’s a great idea. Let’s explain that to you. No alabaster scrubs crotch goblins they’re freakin practically adults. There’s old as our kids Okay, well you can have that Convo whatever I’ll leave it up to him. It’s his problem. He can sit down the beach from his I don’t know we’ll see. We may or may not have him up depending on the crotch goblins But anyway, it is 30 days of lingerie if you haven’t been paying attention to Twitter living under a ducking rock.


Mallory Gordon  09:21

You know? I don’t unlike your Twitter feed that looks like porn. It’s all porn most of the time. I kind of feel like I’ve encroached into that territory because I look for the hashtag I never searched past hashtags almost never. And it’s my favorite like I will click on it to see all the updates from like the day and holy crap


Mickey Gordon  09:43

I gotta give its Kate credit. things taken. Oh 100% I mean, there’s people that are not lifestyle that are posting 30 days a lifestyle now not content creators just regular people posting pictures themselves in laundry. It’s so awesome.


Mallory Gordon  09:57

It is I have to say like, for me, I I feel a lot sexier because now I have like a 30 day commitment that I want to I want to participate in so like I’m looking for stuff and trying stuff on and buying a couple of things here and there to try something new just to see you know how it were would work and I have to say like it’s definitely mentally put me in a much sexier place.


Mickey Gordon  10:21

Oh, I thought that was us last night. That was that but Jenna sexier please. Yeah, you want to wrestle? I we got a special kind of wrestling though. Yeah, you’re not allowed to use your hands your feet. You just have to use your vagina and I have to use my face


Mallory Gordon  10:37

Yeah, that it’s on it’s on it is totally on we got a wrestling mat for a room


Mickey Gordon  10:43

yeah we did actually get a mat because oh I’ve got an amazing that right if we haven’t talked about this on the show before our bed is so fucking awesome. It is a purple four which means it’s got like four inches of the Space Age crazy shit on the top of it and it’s like the most comfortable bed for sleeping that there ever was in any environment or any universe galaxy ever.


Mallory Gordon  11:03

Yeah but using the bed for leverage when you have a traditional spring mattress right you have that additional like push round battery Yeah exactly. With this one it doesn’t it absorbs everything so you really have to work for it and sometimes because you’re leveraging you know a lot of your body we are in a very like fine point now where like all the shocks so you guys and it goes so we got a wrestling mat and my favorite thing was it came in and like kid on faced whatever you whatever you waiters up to use the kiddie pool and jello coming later like we could turn the pool to jello. No, not the actual pool what we told the pool guy? No, we’re not know what we can do in the art in the kiddie pool.


Mickey Gordon  11:48

All right, whatever. We can make this happen. But hey, if you are interested in nidus has nothing to do with the bed of course, but 30 days of laundry and you want to check it out. It is happening on Twitter. It’s also happening on Instagram but to a lesser extent because you know those guys are a little more diligent about taking that shit offline. So you can do it on Twitter. The hashtag is hashtag 30 days of laundry no spaces. For those of you that are spelling impaired laundry is spelled Li n g ri e so make sure you check that out at 30 days of laundry that is a product and a creation of Kate of swinging down under and wanderlust swingers, depending on how you refer to her.


Mallory Gordon  12:23

Yep, that is true. And there’s also a promo code that you can use during for the duration of that event on Twitter. Use code 30 sexy days for discount on lingerie casual toys calm


Mickey Gordon  12:35

Yeah, and that’s laundry. We don’t normally discount right? So it’s not just another 15% discount from casual toys, it’s on on jewelry and a laundry that we normally don’t give discounts on so now’s the time even if you’re not participating in this event. If you’ve been looking for something out there fellas, that’s just gonna make you look great like a G string or a bodysuit.


Mallory Gordon  12:53

Dude we have some great like men’s lingerie I’m just saying like those those five


Mickey Gordon  12:57

that I just told guys to get body suits and G strings for them so


Mallory Gordon  12:59

I did no that’s what I’m saying like I the guys that are participating this year like my Garmin is all about it. Oh yeah keep doing what you’re doing fellas


Mickey Gordon  13:08

right well and I mean if you had ABS like Steve in Jacksonville has that fucker he’s got apparently he does nothing but do sit ups and like planks all day I want to watch but yeah, like these guys are all just doing a great job so I made a joke about guys in bodysuits we actually do have a ton of guy like I don’t know guys Ray I don’t know what we call it but


Mallory Gordon  13:28

yeah, yeah but I mean the array of ladies lingerie as well like the cake C’s have been selling like crazy.


Mickey Gordon  13:36

Like off the shelf crazy. We’ve run out of a few types


Mallory Gordon  13:39

Yeah, and but I will say still stand by this are hands down the best damn thigh highs I’ve ever gotten in my life. No vi muffin, they stay put they have sizing for height and width, which is a it’s a big deal, especially if you are shorter or taller and thinner or thicker down their rate. So you actually can pick something that will fit your body type.


Mickey Gordon  14:05

And they stay they do. I’ve said we’ve done dirty things to you and your kitties. But there are two products that we have had just universally 100% positive feedback on one of them is kissies the other is the womanizer premium. You know our condoms would be the third one but some people complain that they feel too good and that they’re afraid of broke so that’s not exactly 100% positive feedback so kick sees and woman as a premium 100% positive feedback. Awesome. So check that out. And by the way, thank you to the peacock crowd. The peacock crowd has just gone fucking bonkers in the casual toys say lately


Mallory Gordon  14:40

oh my gosh Yeah, I don’t know that have words to do it justice. Thank you guys so much and I can’t wait to fucking meet these people and may This is gonna be like the event of the year I feel it in my bones.


Mickey Gordon  14:51

You know, I’m not going to catch COVID ap cap. I’m going to catch every other bacteria there is on the planet. I’m gonna come up with a cold and I’m gonna come home with like a strep throat and a pink. I’m going to Hug everyone. It’s gonna catch it all. Okay, well just remember consent. I’m just saying, Oh, you offer hugs to everybody.


Mallory Gordon  15:07

Okay? You’re gonna be in the, the line, like the greeting, like at Walmart, like you’re just gonna stay in the lobby and like, offer hugs to everyone that walks in. Please don’t do me. No. Please don’t see me. going on, oh, our last episode, yeah, give a shout out for all the positive feedback we got,


Mickey Gordon  15:27

oh, it made. So you know, you know, every once in a while, as a content creator, you do something. And it is one of those things that you’re a little scared to put out. And I think that was definitely us. We were a little scared to put that episode out. And because we were talking about something that was a little scary. I mean, it was sex toys, and it wasn’t safety and definitely not sexy. Yeah. So that was just I mean, people, all the comments. That’s the validation that we get when you come back to us and say, holy crap, this made a difference. I got rid all my stuff. And I did it because I was having problems. And I didn’t know why. That was huge. I think an important note, though, is that we need to let people know because we did get one where somebody say hey, and my sales pitch for casual toys. And I was like, wait a minute. No, that was not.


Mallory Gordon  16:13

And I think we owe that. Yeah, and that’s definitely not the intention. We own a toy store. We’re passionate about it, we talk about it. But it’s not our end game. It’s not a purpose. And you know, I don’t care where you buy your toys from. For me, it was one of those things like I didn’t know when I ate my myself 1015 years ago, if I had known what I known today, I would have told her flat out don’t do that. Yeah. And the only reason we found out of it about it was because of the toy store. Yeah, that’s true. You know, because it’s not like this is marketed material that’s out there and available unless you really go looking for it. And I don’t think we’ve given enough attention to our sex toy use


Mickey Gordon  16:54

No. And because it’s not universal information, because it’s not just commonly known. There’s just no I mean, there’s only a few resources out there for it. So we don’t really care where you get your stuff. As long as you’re safe and happy. We’re happy we love earning your business but wonderfully sighs on this show to get you to buy shit, but


Mallory Gordon  17:09

I’ll tell you send us an email or a chat on the website. Like I said, even if you don’t buy from us, but you have a question. We’re happy to answer Yeah. 100% Well, and if we don’t know, we’ll, we’ll find someone who does or sends you in the right direction. Alright,


Mickey Gordon  17:22

so let’s talk about one more thing before we get out of here because this is running long for an intro. Alright, let’s go first leadings go but just let’s talk about p cap for a second because you know, we talked about p cap a couple minutes ago a little bit and the P cap crowd. This thing’s gonna sell out there only a few rooms left for p cap.


Mallory Gordon  17:35

Yeah, I think like there’s at least one or two categories are gone at a minimum. So


Mickey Gordon  17:41

yeah, and I think maybe people were thinking, you know, I’ve got time there’ll be cancellations. No, one’s canceling. No, no, everybody’s doubling down. They’re like, I’ll read


Mallory Gordon  17:50

and we went to have a five week runway six weeks. Yeah, I think seven days was yesterday or something like that. Oh my gosh, yeah, we’re no we can’t because this is April and it’s in May. It’s not so if you can’t count. All right. I don’t know. Maybe it’s like tomorrow. I can find Oh, yeah. Yeah, I’ve stopped like a bag of dog food. I’m not gonna do setups, drinking and mapping, please.


Mickey Gordon  18:12

Yeah, no drinking meth. But we are bringing a buttload of goodies down there and a whole bunch of condoms and some other things. If you guys think there’s something that you’ll need, please reach out to us and let us know we should bring for you to the casual toys table in addition to all the freebies, we’re gonna give away. Just let you know I’m coming. You’re coming home to Yeah. Well, I tell you what, let’s jump out of here and come back and talk about jealousy and the lifestyle in the big green monster Mallory wanted to


Mallory Gordon  18:39

buy. That’s me. Do your thing. Yeah, so we’re casual swinger everywhere. You can find us at casual swingers calm Feel free to shoot us a message podcast at casual swinger. love us. Please feel free to leave a review on iTunes you hate us just send us a nice, strongly worded letter by mail. You can find us on social media that’s Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube and feel free to check out our dating profile on double date nation STC SLS and Cassidy.


Mickey Gordon  19:09

That sounds like a just a perfect rendition. Like you’ve done this before, once or twice. All right. We’ll be back in just a second to talk about jealousy in the lifestyle. You’ve been listening to casuals.


Mallory Gordon  19:36

Well, hello, welcome back to casual swinger. I’m Mallory. Yeah. still making Hi baby. So what are we talking about today? We’re gonna do discussion like a jealousy versus envy Convo, right?


Mickey Gordon  19:50

Oh, yeah. A little bit. And you know, I think the the whole jealousy conversation, it spans a lot of angles in the lifestyle and I think we think about jealousy a lot. So the first thing that comes to mind is my spouse is jealous because I’m fucking someone that’s not them. That’s how we view jealousy. But there’s so many more permutations to it. Oh, 100%. And it is a thing. And it’s a thing because there’s so many different permutations to the lifestyle. So many lifestyle dynamics.


Mallory Gordon  20:17

I mean, yeah, yes. In the lifestyle. Absolutely. But let’s just talk about life in general. Sure. I still believe that, you know, jealousy stems from your own internalized personal insecurities, right? Or, you know, past trauma experiences, whatnot.


Mickey Gordon  20:35

Yeah, well, it comes from fear. Absolutely. What are you afraid of? I’m afraid I’m going to be alone and naked in a pile of my own filth that I’m just gonna like somebody more than me. He’s gonna make her happier.


Mallory Gordon  20:46

I’m not good enough. They’re cuter, taller, thinner, prettier. handsomer. Whatever is handsomer word. I digress. Anyways, we’ll make it a word for now, we got into this long discussion after I tripped over this Reddit post about this guy who was having issues. And when I started digging in, and I’m not a huge Reddit consumer, but I found the conversation fascinating. You were digging in? Is that what I said? Kinda? Okay, I was digging in. Alright. And I don’t know, we just coined that. And it turns out, so this, this gentleman has a girlfriend. And he got busted with a lifestyle profile. And his reasoning was he used it for masturbatory purposes. Well, he says, well, right. And let’s, I would like to operate in, you know, because it was on the internet. So we have to believe it must be true. must be true. But let’s pretend like everything we know, from what we read, is close to or the truth? Well, he was the one that wrote thread. He is he is, but I could say right off the bat, the fact that she went looking or so it’s not like you tripped and fell into this profile. Right?


Mickey Gordon  21:58

Like, okay, she wasn’t like on Google and like looking for flowers, right? sudden, oh, there’s my husband’s profile on a swinger site,


Mallory Gordon  22:06

probably a good chance, or some underlying shit going on, she’s probably checking up on him, maybe reading his internet history, maybe, you know, looking at his apps, through his phone, going through his phone or his laptop, who knows who fucking knows, but she’d already had something about the relationship that she decided to go looking. And if you decide to go, look, my philosophy is don’t, because you’ve already decided you’re looking for something, you’re going to find it, it just, it’s how long it’s going to take you to get there. Even the most benign thing becomes tragic. So once you’ve made that decision, you already you should be having the conversation on how your you don’t feel secure in your relationship and why. And that starts with you having an internal conversation with yourself, you know, why do I feel this way? Is this external impacts? Or is this something that’s underlying in me?


Mickey Gordon  22:56

Yeah. And I think I think we’ve kind of talked about this, at least on some level, a lot. Personally, maybe we never discussed on the show at this point all runs together. But if you feel like you have to look, you already have a problem. Right? Right. It’s you already have a trust issue, you already have a suspicion and mounters, right? If you feel like you need to look, and you go look in you’re going to look until you find something that’s the way it works. Nobody stops looking for their keys before they find them.


Mallory Gordon  23:22

Now, let me ask you a question. We’re both grown as adults, we went through adolescence and young adulthood. At some point, you and I have both been guilty of this 100% because we didn’t know what we didn’t know. And I think it’s very natural, especially when you’re younger, to feel insecure. And you’re not mature emotionally enough to identify why. So it’s all it’s externalized. Sure, right.


Mickey Gordon  23:50

Well, and there’s Well, maybe I’m not a game too, right? There’s there’s a blame game that happens this as well. This person, I’m sure they’re cheating on me. I’m sure they’re doing something that I’m not okay with. And it’s all their fault. They are evil for doing this thing. And this guy that’s involved with a girl that’s involved, depending on what side it were, it doesn’t really matter what side you’re on. It could be a guy or girl either way. But that other person is evil, because they know that person’s in a relationship, so they need the shit beat out of them. I mean, that’s the way we were taking it that far. But yeah, but I mean, that’s just the way we work. Really, okay. If I’m jealous, then I’m jealous that this person is doing these things and I’m angry at the person they’re doing it with. And the reality is, it started before anything ever happened.


Mallory Gordon  24:30

Yeah, yeah. That plausibly? Yeah, I think I agree with you there. But yeah, you’ve put on your sleuth hat. Right, then you become the pseudo private investigator. Right. So you’re looking for evidence at this point, you will not stop your bloodhound. You will not stop till you find it.


Mickey Gordon  24:48

So she did she found a profile on a website. Is that cheating just to have a profile? And if so, well, that


Mallory Gordon  24:52

was the first question right? So he’s got this profile that he did not let her know. Right. He’s been easy. says he’s been using it for masturbatory purposes. And she found that is that cheating? Well, I don’t know. Did he engage with anyone? He says not he did not physically make a date meet or engage with people in that facet. But he really didn’t go into detail, conversationally, like, Did he contact people? Was he just using it to look at profiles and pictures? Was he having conversations with other people? Sure. Is it? Is it cheating? I think cheating is a very broad term, kind of like ethical non monogamy and swinging like, sometimes is a very broad strokes and can cover a lot of ground and a lot of diverse relationship styles.


Mickey Gordon  25:45

I think cheating is a short way of saying I feel betrayed. I was I like that betrayal. I feel betrayed. That’s the way that’s that’s the short version of jealousy. And in this case, this guy created a profile on a website, because there was something that turned him on. He was turned on by the idea of car holding and hot wifing. And he wanted to see it. He wanted to see the real life people doing those things. He wanted to imagine his wife being into that. But he didn’t discuss it, whether he didn’t bring it up to her. Or if he had she wasn’t receptive to it. Yeah. And such that he felt like he had to do without her


Mallory Gordon  26:22

well, so it’s his girlfriend. I think that this may have existed that predated the girlfriend. It’s just in the dialogue, because he mentioned something that he’s that porn, right? Traditional porn, you know, you porn, red tube x hamster, whatever, doesn’t do it for him and hasn’t in a very long time. And he he’s a very long time, and then went into I don’t know if it was a year or two years, that he’s been with his girlfriend. So when you look at the landscape of like, time and how it’s perceived, it sounded like, maybe he’s been doing this before her and never came clean about it. Does that make sense?


Mickey Gordon  27:00

Right? Well, maybe on some level, he did not feel comfortable having the conversation again. He didn’t feel comfortable having the conversation in the first place. And there’s any number of reasons why he might not have felt comfortable. Really just kind of doing that. Yeah. And I honestly, I mean, so we have a question, which is, is the fact that he created a profile on this website, cheating. And by definition, the way we define cheating, cheating is the lie. infidelity, the betrayal is the lie. A lie? Is betrayal. Betrayal is cheating. So yeah, if you define it that way, if he felt like what he was doing, you know, there’s something we used to tell our kids. If you feel like you can’t talk to us about it, you probably shouldn’t be doing it. Yeah. Right. Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  27:52

So tell them we’d rather have a thief and a liar, though. So don’t trust our parents. And honesty. Yeah, and honestly.


Mickey Gordon  28:02

That’s right. And I think if he was responding to those couples or singles, and then saying to her that he’s only using it for voyeurism, then that’s another why. So again,


Mallory Gordon  28:14

yeah. Well, and then, after I got through, so this was only like, the third or fourth comment, and I’ll be honest, like, he got a lot of heat. And before I really get in, got into the weeds, I took a step back and go, holy shit, like, what if this guy was reaching out and posing as a single or posing as a couple? Because we don’t know the structure of his profile? Right? We don’t know what it looked like, or, or how it sounded or how he presented himself. I, from a community standpoint, and being in this, you know, outskirt of society, right and lifestyle. I felt betrayed, in a way like, you. I hate to say this, but I was like, you don’t fucking belong here. That’s, that’s, that’s wrong. That’s not okay. He’s


Mickey Gordon  29:05

abusing our community to get off, right? I mean, so as the person in the community who does create content and put stuff out there, and you know that on some level maybe he watched you or listened to you disingenuous


Mallory Gordon  29:20

disengage, like say, we were having conversation, you know, time is one of those things that you we are really cognizant about it in most cases, because it’s the only thing you can never get back. You know, you can make more or less money, you can have a bigger or smaller house, you could have less or more dogs, like you can never get your time back. No. And when you started, especially when you’re investing in people it’s kind of for me, it’s it would be a huge slap in the face. And that’s why I have you run the email communication for the dating sites because yes, let them waste my time. Instead of Yours. You’re just much you’re so much better at it than I am. It’s hard for me to compartmentalize when I’ve dedicated time and it falls through and I know that’s that’s par for the course. And I’m okay with like the organic fizzling out. Where I struggle is the ghosting. Yeah, the ghosting is a little hard. Well, and again, I have my own insecurities,


Mickey Gordon  30:22

right? I mean, these guys if what we’re really talking about is, because So did he cheat on his partner? It depends on the relationship and probably in a way, because if the cheat is the betrayal, the cheat is the lie then yeah, but he’s also kind of catfishing and fishing using the profile this week. Because if he’s interacting with couples and or singles for his voyeuristic tendencies, and he never really intended to actually get engaged, then yeah,


Mallory Gordon  30:48

and you know, I’m not when I when I hear the terms fishing and cat fishing. My default is the hot chick profile that ties together all the guy, friends and connection. That’s


Mickey Gordon  31:01

a dude, that’s a guy that’s really a piece of shit. Because he’s pretending to be a hot girl trying to get picture right.


Mallory Gordon  31:06

Yeah. But in this scenario, if that’s the case, like you,


Mickey Gordon  31:13

yeah, he’s doing something he’s not. He’s not. It’s nobody said he was using it for so he’s a douche canoe. Right? And I think you get a lot of hate, right? And I think he did. But here’s the other thing. Don’t go out on the internet to a place like Reddit, and look for opinions. If you because what you’re really looking for when you go to a place like Reddit,


Mallory Gordon  31:34

is you’re looking for people who agree with you. Or you’re asking to get Rotten Tomatoes thrown at you like it’s very polarizing you very, it’s, it’s not very often you get, you know, a slew of responses that kind of speak the, the moderate tone right there, you have to go waiting for them, you really, really do. So, on the other side of the equation. The other question I asked in my head is, does he not know he’s avoider? Does he not know how to deal with this? Does he not know how to articulate it? Is he just figuring this out? because keep in mind we don’t know jack shit about this person. Know How old is he could be 22 or 42.


Mickey Gordon  32:22

Yeah, and he’s just a standard internet user who went to a place looking for people to agree them and he got flamed. And those things you know what though? His


Mallory Gordon  32:29

responses were like yeah, I was a total deck like in hindsight a see that this was not okay. But at the same time, like, I need to pull up his responses.


Mickey Gordon  32:40

Well, and I think the internet is kind of the the death of or maybe the modern day death of Dear Abby. Because what we used to have, Dear Abby, that’s a throwback. I know, right? Well, I was a newspaper guy. So But anyway, like, get your papes Oh, not that old. It was an 1819 wearing a frickin bowler hat running around going get your papers, how can you say, Oh, I need to watch news now. Please, continue anyway. But what I’m getting at though is, I think that today, you got to the Internet, and you put this stuff out there. Ideally, in places where people agree with you, or you look for people who agree with you, instead of going to a trusted source, that you go to somebody and I’m not saying that we’re those people because we’re not professionals in anything. We suck at everything. We talked about that in the lead in, but what I’m talking about is going to one source through you trust them to give you an honest opinion. And I think that that’s a lot more effective than going somewhere like a Reddit where you get 1000 different opinions. And now you’re like what the fuck is the truth?


Mallory Gordon  33:38

Okay, but let’s think in normal society, because we’re on the outskirts, right? A we’re sex positive, we’re progressive. We our children know who we are, what we do, we don’t flaunt it, but we don’t keep them in the dark, you know, which is, you know, in, in some of the relationships, we have content creators, other lifestyles, they’ve decided not to take that step for their kids, right? We have tons of resources to talk about these things to talk through these things. And what if Reddit was the only resources person had that they felt comfortable with? How fucking sad is that? Oh,


Mickey Gordon  34:16

so we’re saying that this person has a Neck Beard with pimples, and maybe coke bottle glasses and sitting in the basement of the science building.


Mallory Gordon  34:23

We could probably give him fiber to Warcraft, five or six different archetypes. Like if we really wanted to like we’re just postulating and masturbating with canola oil. Yeah, sure. Oh, canola is for all we know. That just took it to another level. Well, I mean, they’re cold and delicious. I don’t know anyway. his dick fits in it can only maybe that’s all he can get depends on the size of the canola. I’m just saying.


Mickey Gordon  34:47

But you know, you actually kind of bring us to another point, though. Do you think maybe this guy on some level, maybe was just numb to porn from overexposure?


Mallory Gordon  34:56

It could be I mean, when you think about it, if he hasn’t, I mean, he knows he’s Scot obviously he knows of the lifestyle because he’s been venturing into this because he flat out said that porn traditional porn doesn’t do it for him. And I don’t know that I have reached the end of online porn. You know, I dabble here in this and there and every once in a while, and I’m not a high porn user, but like, I will use it from time to time. And I’ve seen some graduation and what I searched for, there’s still things that there’s still a lot out there. Yeah, sure, sure. But like, there’s still like things I’m discovering out there. There’s a fuck ton of online porn hound. How in all of the categories and potential searches you have on various plethora of platforms out there just for free born, that it’s not doing it for you. So it tells me that he is not only looking for that voyeuristic aspect, but a certain level of engagement.


Mickey Gordon  36:00

Well, and so in my case anyway, and I have friends that listen to this show, so it’s they know more about me today than maybe I ever wanted, but no, but when we talk about and of course, we have a lot of friends and the lifestyle isn’t the show to you. I’m talking about vanilla friends that knew me before casual swinger. But what I mean here is, you know, my personal preferences is amateur and there always has been. So when we talk about exploring pornography, and in doing it on a personal basis, you know, does overexposure lead you to exploring deeper kinks or, you know, more audacious and crazier shit than you would that if you were doing it with your partner as part of your relationship, and I think, maybe that’s true.


Mallory Gordon  36:45

Oh, think about the arguments. We know of plus, what’s probably out there in standard vanilla society. Think about a husband and wife have a traditional monogamous relationship. They’re not maybe sexually adventurous, maybe there’s some shame in their rights on Tuesdays only missionary maybe. And she catches him watching. You know, BUKOVSKY porn German videos. Well, now, let me even dial that back through some porn. Okay, just run of the mill. run of the mill threesome porn. automatically. What do you think that argument looks like?


Mickey Gordon  37:25

Is that do you want that for me? Like, is that what you want? Is that I mean, are you and I saw you looking at our neighbor? Yeah. Is that what you want from her?


Mallory Gordon  37:34

It creates doubt insecurity, jealousy. Why?


Mickey Gordon  37:41

Because we make up the spaces in between make up the things we don’t understand. Oh my god, I talked about this tonight. My work life if you don’t know the facts, and if you feel like there’s something you don’t know, you make it up and you put the worst possible thing you can think of in the hole?


Mallory Gordon  37:54

Well, you put various things in the hole and the thing you cling to the most is the negative right? Because it’s what we’re the most scared of because we want to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Right? And it’s absolute human nature. That’s why I’m I’m a huge evangelist and transparency and communication. Oh, you’re such an evangelist. I am I feel the Lord. I’ll kill No. Anyway. Let me get my Tammy Faye Baker on I gotta go put like the mascara that runs down my face. Alright, we got this anyway.


Mickey Gordon  38:26

But I do think your risings are leading these these gaps in communication that lead to fear, the lead to feelings of jealousy, and that are fueled by desire that can be fulfilled by the internet that can be fulfilled by things like only fans do, you know, only fans has created a situation where people have personal access to the object of their fantasy.


Mallory Gordon  38:48

That’s actually a great point. And that’s something that came to mind when I was reading through all the dialogue there and I’m like, if he’s looking for a voyeuristic like, I want I really wanted to ask the question and know more about what His goal was. What got him off and what brought him there. Because with these platforms, only fans I mean, it was it was on an upward trajectory right? upward my ad 1000 to 16 million creators, I hope Okay, you got to the point really quickly, Mister says a lot about you. What I do, I’m spread out with we think about the impacts of COVID that’s something that happened in we’re all at home and you know, these strippers and other sex workers and people who never even thought about sex work before decided to create it only fans I don’t care if they painted their toenails, or like, you know, did deep seated themselves ate it. Three other people. It doesn’t matter. It really took off in the last year, year and a half god yeah, like a hockey stick, right. And there’s a plethora of things out there for them. So why wasn’t that a Reese resource for him as well.


Mickey Gordon  40:00

Well, you know, first of all, this was probably cheaper. Right? So I’ll use an example from this week. Well, Mitch and I work really hard. You work really hard, we work our asses off. And you know what we don’t do? We don’t earn $1.2 million in six hours. Are you talking about the cash me outside? Me Outside girl, that 13 year old prostitute made $1.6 million. The day she turned 18 in six, bucking hours by showing off her new fake tits on the internet. And more importantly, there were people out there that couldn’t wait to pay. And if you look at that money broke down, which by the way, they released the statistics. That girl made over $200,000 from personal messages, meaning people who were turned on by her, were communicating with her personally and paying to do it. I don’t even know what to say, I want to go I want to quit my job and maybe go try to beat him. Dr. Phil.


Mallory Gordon  41:00

Now let’s look at the ramifications in perpetuity. That’s what she will be known for. She will never get over that persona. So right now she’s young, and she’s capturing it capitalizing on it. But she’ll never get away from it.


Mickey Gordon  41:16

There’s only 2 million you can make me known for jerking off goats.


Mallory Gordon  41:19

You know what, though? No, I don’t know for $1.2 million. For the rest of my days on Earth. I want to be known as that person who is on Dr. Phil has showed her tits on only fans to earn like, I don’t know that that’s who I want to be whatever, I’m bad. And I’m not judging her. I’ve just if I had to put myself in that place, like I would be under a rock somewhere but I’m also not that kind of person. Like I if


Mickey Gordon  41:44

obviously you know none of us are we would have done it by now. Right? I mean, this kind of thing that this I need it.


Mallory Gordon  41:50

I need positive affirmation, but it does actually ask not monetary right.


Mickey Gordon  41:57

Question for both the creators and the people. What’s enough. Right at what point are you googling amputees riding bareback on a camel in a convent filled with warming corny nuns? At what point? Are you one of the horny nuns?


Mallory Gordon  42:12

Alright, should I ask you about your search history should not look that was very specific. Well, I mean, I had to pull something out of the air so why not? That did not sound rehearsed.


Mickey Gordon  42:26

Like you pulled out of the air. I’m actually a little scared. I went looking for it. And it did not exist. So we have a new content creation goal. Mallory, are you in? No. Oh, definitely not. Oh, womp womp.


Mallory Gordon  42:39

I mean, don’t get me wrong. I like camels. I think they’re cute, and they’re funny when they spit at other people.


Mickey Gordon  42:46

And what about llamas? Can you ride a llama bareback, but we need an amputee? Oh my God, please stop. I don’t think that we’ve we do go too far with this, though. Whether and I think you don’t go too far when you do it together. Because there’s some checks and balances as you guys are hearing right now with Mallory and I even having this conversation. She’s like, yeah, too far you’re being an ass. And I think when you explore things together, you know, you’re each other’s Jiminy Cricket. Like, maybe that’s not okay. A good example actually would be in real life That happens a lot. fetishizing race, where we see with people like I want BBC, well, maybe some people don’t want to be called BBC, because they’re racist and important. Maybe they want to be a person. Right. And so I think I don’t think there’s a maybe in there. Well, yeah, but some people don’t mind. Some people think it’s great, because they have a huge penis, they don’t care what you call it. And and that’s good for them. Right? I’m just saying that anytime that you make it about one thing, that’s all it’s about. That’s


Mallory Gordon  43:45

funny, we just had this conversation. And it was very ballsy in the car. And we talked about updating their profile. And I’m not going to give all the deeds, but there was something very specific I said, like just pot, like throwing it out there and throw a Newton at the wall and going, you know, right now in this moment, as I’m feeling it, this, this and this, like this box, this box, this box, if all of those are checked, like they would literally have to try to not have sex with me.


Mickey Gordon  44:16

Yeah. But I don’t think that and what we were actually, when I asked you I was like, Is that fetishizing? Well, yeah, we did talk about this because you got to think for firefighters and cops. No, you do you always have if you listen to the show, they know this already saying no. I just can’t help it. It’s like yeah, I don’t think but that’s different than 30. Troll. Yeah, right. Something people can control. So when we fetishize something people can’t control MPT little people race. Right? Those things, maybe that that is hurtful. And then when you can’t have that conversation with your spouse, because that’s something you’re turned on by then you go out and start looking for then you get busted and then the feelings of jealousy come up. Right. It’s a lot more common. Located then just, I can’t get this at home. It’s I don’t even know how to talk about this. Because I don’t know why I feel this way why I’m turned on by


Mallory Gordon  45:07

well, and that poses a great question. Is it actually jealousy at that point? So, what is it the other thing, which is going to bring us to our next conversation? Well, and I think we see the other thing in the lifestyle more than we do jealousy. So the other thing is envy. Yeah. Which is not so indifferent from jealousy on the surface and the way it feels when in and when it happens. But envy is, you know, you’re having so much fun, and you’re the center of attention, or you’re being, you know, you’re in the spotlight. And I’m envious. Maybe I feel like you’re having more fun than me. And I had this look at me like that in a while. Oh, yeah, that’s a great one. I’ve had that. And I miss Oh, my God, the first two days of my period, this last round, sorry, guys, it happens. I was just like, ah, and I was like, ticking and just ticking like, Oh, I wish she selected me like, oh, and blah, blah, blah. And it was so just bullshit emotional. But I was like, I’m sitting here being envious. If it can happen to us guys, it can happen to you. It was it was a rude awakening for me. Like I went inside in our bedroom, like crisscross applesauce on her bed, and had a whole like internal conversation with myself. In my head. I probably looked like I was like meditating when you walked in.


Mickey Gordon  46:41

No, I just knew that you were you were examining something, right? Not going through something you were examining something. You’re trying to identify why you felt the way you did, which is something that I admire about you. Because I’m a little more volatile. emotionally. I think sometimes,


Mallory Gordon  46:56

I think we’re all human, we cross that line every now and then because we can’t help it. We’re so charged. At that point. It there’s just some cases where it is absolutely best to walk away and digest it and really analyze what’s going on before you speak. It’s probably some of the best advice I’ve ever gotten in my life. And my grandmother gave us that advice before we got married. Sure. You know, you know, be very careful with your words, because those are things you can’t take back once they’re out there in the universe. They exist forever. Just an argue University, the internet, she had no idea. Even bless her heart. Never even the


Mickey Gordon  47:33

internet beach in Jamaica, though. She did. She did. She was very envious of that, by the way. Yes, I wish I was that brave. You kids are gonna go down there and get naked and have so much fun. You are like, yes, we are like I did a lot of fun things. But I always wish I could have done that. And I’m like, I love you. Please don’t come with us. Please don’t take your shirt off. But you know, so let’s actually kind of examine this because I think the jealousy as we said in the lead in that everyone’s familiar with lifestyle is your fucking someone else. I’m jealous. That’s not what experienced lifestyles deal with. Experienced lifestyles do However, sometimes deal with things that actually lean towards envy. A good example that Mallory brought up here was that maybe you know, and I made a joke earlier about, you know, me having the dadbod for pee cap. But you know, the Mallory’s beautiful Mallory is attractive, and she’s fun and entertaining, and gregarious, and everyone likes her. And she’s going to get all the attention. And I’m going to be over here getting drinks for people at the bar. I’m envious. I wish people paid attention to me. That is something people really deal with maybe one person and a couple in an experienced lifestyle couple. It has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with just being the center of the conversation or being interesting or being funny is funny using that as


Mallory Gordon  48:52

a note that you didn’t say I was smart. And we’ll talk about that later, offline. But I often feel that way about you you’re you’re you’re very much life at the party, and you’re so engaging and so charismatic. And we’ve both been on the side. Let’s be brutally honest. We don’t compete against each other but at times we feel we compete in the same circle for I don’t know the word for it, but I can tell you what is it I just want them to like me too. Yeah, yeah. I we actually had the conversation earlier. Like sometimes I’ll let’s use Jamaica as a as an example, because it’s an easy one for us. I’ll have gone to the bathroom, maybe gone back and got something for the room, come back and you have all of these friends and that’s great. And then I walk in and I feel like I’m really late to the party. And you guys have already have like all these inside jokes that are going on and I’m playing catch up. So I’ve learned to Hey, Be fucking humble. Just ask the question. Sorry, I didn’t get that. What happened? Tell me story sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah. And then I play too. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Can I play too? I like your toy.


Mickey Gordon  50:10

It’s really cool. And this is where jealousy is mis identified, because the other side goes, What do you mad about? What did I do? I didn’t do anything. What are you jealous about?


Mallory Gordon  50:19

Well, it’s really easy to fold in on yourself when you don’t know what’s going on. And it’s really hard. It’s harder than you think it is to ask that question. It took me years to figure that out. And I was like, Oh, that’s an easy solution.


Mickey Gordon  50:34

Well, and I think the way that this really gets misconstrued is because as the offended person, your initial responses, why did you? Why didn’t you write it? There’s a lot of you questions that come out of that. And from our experience, I think we’ve seen both sides of it instead of I wish I was included. I wish I felt like part of things. And we’ve gotten so much better at that over the last maybe five years. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  51:00

we have. Because I mean, I was in my early 20s, when you and I met and one of the most impactful conversations we had with each other. Is I I actually had that conversation with you. Yeah, it was? Yes. Well, and but the other side, I learned a lot from it. Some like you, and you, and you. And you saw the time, and you did and but you were so patient, and so kind and the conversation could have went left really quickly, if you didn’t have the the pause, the patience, the where with all the experience to go, Okay, I get what you’re saying. But if we were to look like, moving forward, I want to ask something of you. And you literally asked me this question. I can’t read your mind. I would love to maybe not so much. But if I could have in that moment, that would have helped, but I can’t. So why didn’t you ask me? Or ask them? Or involve yourself or include yourself? You know, I feel responsible for your emotions, I feel responsible for your happiness. I know that’s not my job. I love seeing you that way. I know, that resides in you. But Can Can you take those steps? Because that will give me an identifier, a Henrys or at a minimum to know that you want to be included that you want to be caught up? Because otherwise? I don’t know. Yeah, it stuck with me that that was literally 15 years ago.


Mickey Gordon  52:31

Yeah, it was a long time. It was right at the beginning, maybe 14. And it was really tough, because I wanted so much to be in the know. And if I could read your mind, I would have thought, oh, wow, she really doesn’t like it’ll just make you choke on your drink.


Mallory Gordon  52:51

That was good bourbon, I did not do a spit take. But I came very, very close. No, it was a very aha moment. It was it was I literally, I remember my jaw like dropping down while I’m listening to you, I probably look like I was catching flies. But I realized that I had a certain amount of accountability in there for for naming the things or calling out to the things that I wanted. And then I had a role to play in that, that I couldn’t expect you because we know each other so well, to just know what I needed and wanted at every given moment.


Mickey Gordon  53:28

So there’s a big thing I want to point out here before we go to the last part. And we are starting to come to the end of the hour here. So I want to make sure I finish the conversation. But oh, it’s my job. This is what I do. I’m the timekeeper. But you know, I do think it’s important to identify that you don’t say to somebody you are you don’t say, Well, I want you just say I would like to feel that as well. And I feel left out. And I feel like I’m missing something. And I’m not saying you’re not giving it to me, I’m not saying that I’m not getting it because of you. But as a person who loves you, I want you to have all the things. So if you tell me what you want, I’m going to try to make sure you get it. And I think that there’s so many people out there that are listening to the show right now. They feel the same way. They just don’t know how to have the conversation. And I think the conversation starts with I love you. And I am not jealous of what you have. I just wanted to I want to come along for the ride. I want to experience the things you experience. I see how you light up when there’s other people talk to you, or tell you that you’re attractive, or that you’re interesting or that you’re funny. And I want a chance to feel that way too. And I that’s that’s how you overcome envy is you say I just want to be part of the party.


Mallory Gordon  54:43

Fair enough. And even today, when I don’t know how to sort those emotions if I’m in like I’ve more, I hate to say this word but more fragile state or more unknown state. I’ll tell you how I feel. And then I’ll sit back and it takes a lot it really, really does take a lot of patience with yourself to do this in a very calm and in a very calm manner and go, Okay, this is how they feel. And what I saw that happened was this, from your perspective, how did that look? And what could I do better? And how can I articulate myself better to achieve what I want? And if and sometimes I’ll give it to you, the answer was, you know what, I missed something. I think you called it out here. And I missed it and, or this happened or whatever, you’ll be completely honest with me. But there’s times where you’ll back it up and go. I see that now. However, this would help. Or I think you’re not you weren’t in a place. Maybe you had a bad day at work? Yeah. You know, that’s actually very common. Like, maybe your headspace wasn’t, wasn’t there.


Mickey Gordon  56:04

Yeah, it’s so important to, to not let somebody feel attacked, right? It’s so important to how you address this guy, girl, doesn’t matter. If your partner starts to bring this up with you. Make sure that you try to hear where they’re coming from, and don’t take it as a personal attack. Because that is the first way to send these conversations into the shitter is to go Well, fuck you. Already the wrong answer. It’s, it’s not about you, you get maniac it’s about you guys. It’s about both of you. If it’s not about both of you, the lifestyle is probably not the right thing for you. So you guys really need to take a look at how you’re feeling about this. Now let’s kind of attack one more piece of this. Okay? And what happens when you feel jealousy? with another couple that you guys are seeing? Because maybe they’re playing with another couple and you guys are together all the time? And or maybe you have a really good relationship? And all of a sudden together? you’re sharing jealousy? Is it jealousy? Is it FOMO? Is it envy? Is it sadness? Is it what is it when you feel it? Because I think all of us that when you finally have that four way connection, because we look for it for so long, it’s lightning in a bottle, right? You’re like, Oh my god, I want to have it. And then when you have it, and they’re playing with somebody else, and you’re like, Huh, why does my toy Oh, how would it be cool too? I mean, it is it still jealousy? And how do you stomach that as a couple Do you ever talk about I mean, I think we talk about it. We talk about other couples talking about it too. Are we crazy? I


Mallory Gordon  57:38

so here’s my thing. This is where I struggle, and maybe this is part of my evolution. But I don’t feel comfortable talking to the other couple about it. I think that is a problem that resides in us or me


Mickey Gordon  57:51

because it makes you look like a stage 25 cleaner. Well,


Mallory Gordon  57:54

maybe, maybe, but at the same time it’s we’ve all engaged in this lifestyle for a reason. And we have the parameters and if we were more polyamorous it would be a completely different conversation to have right? But that’s not our situation. You know, we’re a swinging or ethically non monogamous couple however you want to label us fine by me. I don’t give two shits. dirty bitch. I am a dirty whore. But when you do find that for weak connection there is that little like, heart stop moment where you’re like, Oh yeah, they have a life of their own. Oh, it’s a little tiny vacuum where we have these sexual escapades that are just fucking mind blowing and we can also go play putt putt golf together and have a great time. You know it it’s it’s a bit of a wake up call.


Mickey Gordon  59:02

Well all things that go up have a down Yes. And there’s an inverse and when you feel that good about another couple collective Yeah, there’s gonna be something that makes you feel almost equivalently bad


Mallory Gordon  59:17

like you know what, though? I think it’s still stems from our own insecurities as individuals even we’re on our way out. Like maybe we’re not good enough maybe somebody replaced us Yeah, baby. It’s the same shit and it happens Yeah, it’s like how do you solve Sue there’s a couple Isn’t that like the playground all over again? Like as like small children. Oh, I don’t want to get pig ball again. Fuck man. But you know, you know what makes me happy. When that same couple will have a conversation they tell you what a good time they had or maybe they come to vent to you when they didn’t have a good time. You know, it that actually makes me feel really good because I’m still at the end of the day. Doesn’t matter what happens after the vacuum sealer fucking friend.


Mickey Gordon  59:59

What do you do? What happens if a couple doesn’t want to play with you anymore? Or they play with another couple more? Should that bother? Anyone? I mean, if all of a sudden they’re maybe they’re on the outs, or maybe they’re just not as cool anymore. I mean, do you let that get to you? Or do you just go next?


Mallory Gordon  1:00:15

I really struggle with asking the question, why? And I don’t, I’ve never done it. But I’ve I’ve mulled that over my head, and it’s none of my business. Why? It’s none of my business. what other people think of me at that point? Ever, ever. That’s that’s their business? Yeah. But I intrinsically want to know,


Mickey Gordon  1:00:41

well, I think we want to know if it would make us feel better.


Mallory Gordon  1:00:45

Yeah, well, it’s not gonna make me feel better. But I always look for evolving myself. And if there was something I did that I could fix, right? Because that’s what it’s about. I operate like a guy, maybe in that respect, that, like, if I have a flaw, maybe there’s a way I can analyze that and better myself as a human being. And it sounds really fucking altruistic. 100% It comes from my insecurities. Like, did I use my teeth when I believe you? Because I’m really sorry about that. I, I have a lot of them.


Mickey Gordon  1:01:20

And I asked him and AIDS and neosporin after the blowjob, he’s probably fine.


Mallory Gordon  1:01:25

You know, at the end of the day, some people just don’t mesh and you just got to let it go. And, you know, work that shit out with your spouse. I wanted to, um, you know, I wanted to but I’ve never asked the question, but I can’t help but ask myself why? Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  1:01:39

I think we all do. So last one, you know, and and there are so many again, we talked about this earlier tonight, that there are so many permutations to because there are so many dynamics in the lifestyle. But what about inter couple jealousy? When one person is paying more attention to the other couple than they get at home? We talked about that. I want you to look at me. I want to feel that way. I remember when he used to look at me that way. I remember how that used to feel. Is there a way to handle that? That is not? Hey, motherfucker. I’m over here to Is there a way to handle that? I mean, that’s kind of my default. I know it is. It is not you like why that’s a good question that our listeners need to answer is, is it jealousy? Or is it envy? And if it’s jealousy, meaning, I don’t want you to feel that way. That’s the difference. Jealousy is I don’t want you to have an envious I wish I did to jealousy means you shouldn’t be doing that. I’m upset that you did. I’m jealous. Because I don’t want you to do what you did. Jealousy means I want. Yeah, envy means I want to feel that way too. I don’t like the way I’m feeling envy is a Me too. Yeah. And jealousy is I don’t want you to that’s at the end of the day. That’s what it is. Okay,


Mallory Gordon  1:03:00

I can see that. I see where you’re going. Also, we’re not licensed medical professional. No, but I’m


Mickey Gordon  1:03:05

just talking about how I feel. And I maybe I’m gonna identify the two of them. Yeah, and I know that when I’m jealous, I’m jealous because I can’t stop you from doing what you were doing. I’m angry because I can’t change it. And it was possibly in my head my behavior that created it and I can’t undo it. The envy just means I just want to be part of the team


Mallory Gordon  1:03:29

you know, I feel like anger hitches a ride to jealousy doesn’t really does Yeah, and that’s how we masked pain. That’s what angers for Yeah, so guys, I


Mickey Gordon  1:03:42

want you to think about how you deal with it I want you to think about what it is I want you to really examine before you pop off because if you just want to be a part of it and you love the person you want to do it with you know if we can go back to Star Wars right? It’s a fear leads to anger or fear or fear and anger lead to guilt guilt leads to hate hates the path to the dark side. Right so it’s I mean, all those things are here we go Geekdom your nerd is showing no it’s actually hot. Yes. Well, in this show we must so people where to find us I just did that. Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  1:04:19

Hi guys. We are casual swinger everywhere you can find is that she has real swinger.com set especially as POC podcast casuals calm. We’re also on social media find us as casual swinger on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. Feel free to look up our dating sites That’s double date, nation. sec, SLS and Cassidy.


Mickey Gordon  1:04:45

Alright guys, that’ll do it. This has been an episode about jealousy in the lifestyle and some of the stupid shit we do. You’ve been listening to casuals