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SE03E20 – Playstyle Dynamics_mixdown

Fri, 8/27 5:28PM • 1:09:24


people, casual, play, couple, swinger, dynamic, toys, feel, doxy, fucking, person, head, playstyle, hear, mallory, girl, shit, dating sites, folks, conversation


Mickey Gordon, Mallory Gordon


Mallory Gordon  00:02

You’re listening to the casual swinger podcast as your hosts, we need to warn you that the material you’re about to hear may be sexual or explicit in nature. This podcast is intended for an adult audience. Now we don’t expect you to act like adults. What’s the fun in that?


Mickey Gordon  00:16

We’re a married couple living in Florida with over 13 years of experience in the lifestyle and we take almost nothing seriously. Casual swingers a variety show meaning we’ll cover everything from music to events, travel, and even the occasional hilarious screw up. Our show is about entertainment. We’re not licensed professionals had anything and our stories, commentary and guidance should not be confused with the opinions of a licensed professional.


Mallory Gordon  00:41

Now that you know, let’s take those pants off and get comfy. Hey, everybody, welcome back to casual swinger. I’m Mallory casual swinger. And what is that? I don’t know that used to podcast all the time, and they just fell face there. Just went out and got busy with life and went away. Yeah, I guess so. I suppose today, the role of Mickey will be played by yours truly. Excellent. Thank you for joining me. I heard he has a giant penis. I don’t have one of those. We’re just going to have to pretend logical fallacy. Oh, fallacy fallacy did you did was this? Yeah. All right. I see. We did.


Mickey Gordon  01:21

All right. All phalluses all the time. And fabulous Queen of Central Florida. Everybody. This is Mallory. Take a Palooza so what in the hell have we been doing for the last six weeks? that we haven’t been doing a podcast?


Mallory Gordon  01:37

Um, flyff. Work? Family Mickey got a new job. Yeah, you got a new job that definitely is kept us away. But you have been, you know, nose to the grindstone. Literally,


Mickey Gordon  01:48

I really every day trying to learn a new thing. And honestly keep casual toys rolling. And because that, you know, when you guys spend money with us, that’s a priority for us. And unfortunately, between the new job and casual toys, it’s kind of made it so I need to focus on that stuff. But yeah,


Mallory Gordon  02:03

I did think about doing an episode by myself. But answering myself makes me sound like an insane person. So


Mickey Gordon  02:09

I’m kind of thinking everyone would love it if you did an episode without me. So they didn’t have to hear my voice for a while. Yeah, but that’s like one long monologue. Oh, but it’s a good one you could be like, and this is how I masturbate.


Mallory Gordon  02:19

Okay, I mean, that’s that’s in play for late next episode. Right? Well, I think the last episode, but like we’re gonna be on time next time. Don’t worry, guys. He said that last three episodes. I think they’ve just surmised that we don’t keep our word.


Mickey Gordon  02:31

Okay, we are full of shit. But in the next episode, Mallory’s gonna whack it. Okay, if it. Yeah, sure. Why not? If that makes people tune back in you’ll just slap your been around on the shirt. YOLO can even see no one says that anymore. Do they? I think that was a very 2000s thing. You just said it was very such. Oh, you see, I’m cool. I use words like SAS in a sentence.


Mallory Gordon  02:52

Yeah. No, no. I mean, it’s I know what it means. It just doesn’t sound right coming out of your mouth. Oh,


Mickey Gordon  02:59

we have done a bunch of other shit. Right. So I think everything kind of led up we more or less accidentally took the month off leading up to peak app. And peak app is podcaster Palooza for those of you guys that live in Iraq, don’t listen, any of the shows, don’t listen to the other 11 content creators that were down there. It was a lot of fun, we would have to sound out with a bunch of cool last weekend people.


Mallory Gordon  03:19

I ton of cool ass people, it was so great to be in that type of environment. And he did such a good job of curating a place for people to have, you know, the world is their oyster to create their own adventure, essentially.


Mickey Gordon  03:34

And it was it was a journey for everybody that came whether it was a journey to go meet creators or a journey to learn something new or a journey to hang up by the beach and get fucked up because you’ve been stuck home with COVID for the last 18 months. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  03:44

the theme night, see the events everything was just absolutely wonderful. And I enjoyed meeting so many people that we’d connect with, especially during COVID and quarantine, that we actually got to meet in person. That’s fantastic. Oh, I’m just gonna say it. Honey spoon. Oh, wow. Wow. No one’s surprised by that. You and every other person there. Yeah, get in line. Yeah. Honey spoon.





Mickey Gordon  04:14

By the way, who is one of our casual ambassadors for that? Yeah, it’s I met her and her amazing husband. And it was just like, Wow, you guys are awesome.


Mallory Gordon  04:23

Yeah, we had all three of our ambassadors there. Yeah, we had Miss alleycat. Oh, yeah. And Pepe pineapple and Pepe pineapple. So it was awesome. Yeah, one of my highlights and I’m just gonna go ahead and throw this in there since we’re talking about them anyways, is when Pepe and honey spoon showed up to our table with a wet t shirts because I’d mentioned earlier in the day that there was a girl wearing a white t shirt. And it was wet and there’s maybe it’s like the late 80s, early 90s stuck in me but there’s just something so hot about a girl and a wet white t shirt to me.


Mickey Gordon  04:57

Yeah, that’s right. For those of you out there that were born in the wrong generation. Just go ahead and Google Tawny kitane


Mallory Gordon  05:02

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was so hot and I was so touched like, I was awkward and speechless.


Mickey Gordon  05:08

Oh, yeah, it was, it was crazy. I mean, it’s I don’t lust for honey spoon for no reason whatsoever. She was hotter. No. And they were both wearing casual swinger t shirts. Yeah, they were just really frickin off. Again, totally touch. I think we would have probably talked about this earlier. And honestly, we really I know you guys that listen to us regularly know that we don’t really do event recap episodes very often. So we’re really not going to do that. Because my guess is you’re gonna get 11 or 12 of these from all the different contracts down there. But it you know, it was crazy. We were gonna have them talk about it because we met so many cool people. I definitely caught a cold because I’ve been stuck in the house for 18 months and didn’t go out and do anything. So it wasn’t COVID or anything, but I couldn’t talk for a week.


Mallory Gordon  05:46

Yeah, no, I think you then pass it on to me. I sound like I can swap spit. I’m a sound a little hoarse. That’s not a pony. You caught it from my penis. Yes, I did. It was great. Yeah, we had lots of dirty sex with ourselves.


Mickey Gordon  05:59

We really did. Like we didn’t sleep with anybody. I tell you what, we went to podcaster Palooza and came back and everybody that was there probably thinks that we’re like complete frauds. They were like, nope, they don’t swing. We never saw them. Never saw us in the play rooms because we never went.


Mallory Gordon  06:12

Yeah, no, we were just so busy. I don’t know socializing that we forgot that we’re swinger.


Mickey Gordon  06:19

Yeah, we’re here to meet people. And we didn’t do that. Not at all. Let’s be honest, we rarely do that at events anyway. It’s not really our style. We’re kind of casual. But that’s okay. It’s not like a mad about it or anything. And you know, we did our session, which for those of you that did not go to podcaster Palooza, the folks that did go and came to our session on Sunday afternoon, were I don’t want to see treated too, because I think we might have punished them a little. But we we fucked with them, essentially,


Mallory Gordon  06:45

cuz you made them laugh till they were crying. Somebody vomited. And then I was the fucking party pooper. I brought everyone down like 10 notches.


Mickey Gordon  06:55

Well, but that was the journey we went through. We did on purpose. I mean, we had a period in our lives that we’ve never talked about in the show, and we’re not going to that was about six months long, where we had the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. So we took the crowd through that in 45 minutes by taking them very, very high. And then bringing them very, very low. With the rest of the story.


Mallory Gordon  07:14

Yeah. And they forgave us. We got a lot of great feedback. Actually, most of that Sunday evening, we spent discussing some of that. And what I was really surprised by and really touched by, is there people that had stories that touched on or were similar to what we had discussed. And that almost makes me feel better about because I mean, I was still in shock. just telling that to the world because I’d never spoken out loud to anyone outside of us. Sure. We’ve kept it fairly quiet. Yeah, show that. Yeah. I was surprised at how, you know, raw, I still felt after talking about it. It was cathartic. Who are you telling? Yeah, I know. I know. I know. But it felt a little better knowing I’m not alone in there now alone, if that makes sense. Like we bonded a little bit over that.


Mickey Gordon  08:03

I kind of feel that and I feel that for a couple of reasons. Because standing up there and participating in the story with you listening to you tell your story. And lock from The Suite Life actually put it really succinctly. He said that we stood in front of a roomful of people in late our truth on the table. Very much so. And that was, by the way, it was that dude is awesome. I’ll get into that in a second. But it just, I mean, really. It was tough. And I didn’t realize how tough it was gonna be till I heard you doing it. And I’ve been a public speaker. For basically it’s all of your library. Yeah. And I don’t break up. I don’t screw up. I just don’t know. And yeah,


Mallory Gordon  08:44

you kind of broke character and started to get a little emotional. I did. I said out loud. If you if you do it, I’m gonna do it. And we’ll never get through this.


Mickey Gordon  08:51

This will never be over here the rest of the day. Yeah. So it was it was really kind of epic, to get that opportunity to share that story with those people and the lessons that we learned. And the biggest thing out of it that I got was closure. I feel like we’re finally moved on. You


Mallory Gordon  09:08

know, I was a little surprised to hear you say that, but also very grateful that that was a takeaway from you. Yeah, I was terrified in the hours leading up to it. I had conversations with you that I was really scared that I had started to make these friendships and connections while we were there. And then I’m gonna go in and paint myself as a villain to these people. And that is somewhere I’d be shunned or, or, you know, got the rotten tomatoes.


Mickey Gordon  09:36

I don’t think anybody was going to do that. But we definitely, you know, painted ourselves is not the heroes of the story,


Mallory Gordon  09:42

which is something we don’t tend to do as human beings. No, you know, we tend to like, put that stuff under the rug. And what actually happened for me is after you had finished your portion, and I started telling mine, I almost felt a little more at ease. I felt like I was among friends. And that was It was a safe space to do this. It was very strange, but wonderful.


Mickey Gordon  10:04

I kind of felt like they were all on that journey with us at that point. I think they were invested. They’re like, fuck it. We’re in it now. It’s like being on a roller coaster and you got to the top was like, Well, here we go. Buy in for a diamond for $1. Right, pitter patter. Let’s get out here. But I’ll talk about your Letterkenny obsession here later. But you know, I do think that one of the coolest things that came out of that was casual swinger. Because three months after all of that happened, yeah, casual swinger was born and that’s the thing that the people learned a pee cap. Is it casual swinger wasn’t born out of pride. It wasn’t born out of all the cool shit we know about the lifestyle. It wasn’t born out of us being experts. It was born out of humility.


Mallory Gordon  10:47

That is very true. I think it’s not something we’ve ever really said out loud.


Mickey Gordon  10:53

So I really felt like that was cool, but alright, on from that sappy rough shit. Thank you for everybody that came down to podcaster Palooza and took part in it with us and went on that emotional journey with us. But we did get to spend some time with some of the most amazing content creators in this business.


Mallory Gordon  11:08

Amen. Do you want to give like a few like bullet point like highlights and then we’ll move on? Oh, yeah. We got to do some shout outs.


Mickey Gordon  11:14

Everybody knows that. I have a man crush on Jay from average trainers. He is one of my favorite human beings on the face of this planet. He’s amazing. And oh my god, it looks so good. And his main Kini. You know, and I am being genuinely honest, when it says I know he and I fuck with each other on the air all the time. But there are very few people in this world that I personally call for advice. And he’s one of them. And that should tell you who he is. He’s that good of a human being. He’s that brilliant, emotionally speaking. Intellectually speaking, he’s a turd but emotionally he’s just you know, he’s amazing. But how about how about locking triste? From the sweet life?


Mallory Gordon  11:56

They were well, she’s hot. Oh my god. So when he walked into the room, I was like, Oh my god, they’re fucking high. Well, I’m at lock. Wow.


Mickey Gordon  12:04

And he’s like, my wife will be here. later on. I’m like, that’s cool. I get it. She just trolled you out here. You know? And then you know, maybe she’ll show up later. Maybe she doesn’t exist. And then next thing I know this smokin hot girl with hair a cooler color than mine is like, oh, by the way. I’m that girl he told you about.


Mallory Gordon  12:20

Oh, yeah, she looked like I’m fucking million dollars. Jesus. Holy crap. Rice that girl smoking. I was trying to play cool. No, I wasn’t cool. I stumbled on my single syllable words. Smile. Don’t say anything stupid. Like, Hi, my name is bbbbbb Nikki. What am I Oh my god. Bummer bell. Oh, another one. I loved hanging out with those guys. They’re amazing. as advertised, but even more so they’re so charismatic in person and so full of life. And like, I fucking love their smiles and I didn’t want to be a creeper. But like, if I saw them, I made sure like I wiggled my way into their little orbit so that we could at least have some conversation and hang out. Yeah, I really want to dance with bomber which I?


Mickey Gordon  13:03

Yeah, you know, I don’t go on the dance. No, you know? No, no, he definitely don’t I just hang out on the outside. But you know, we also got to meet some other great folks. The folks from naughty Jim. We got to meet the foot from swinging outside the lines. Yeah, chance to meet them before. And I know I’m gonna forget somebody. I think we pretty much had met everyone else other than those four. But I think you know, Locke made a huge impression on me because he went out of his way to come over and introduce himself to me and tell me who they are. And I’ve listened to their stuff, but I just never really got a chance to look them in the eye and shake his hand. And he took that opportunity which says so much to me, and I really appreciate it It definitely what bomber bomber is a great dude.


Mallory Gordon  13:41

Oh my gosh, this sounds amazing. I think we definitely got the fields. I do I get it feels now you guys got a case? Yeah, got a case of the fields.


Mickey Gordon  13:48

Definitely. And the last one that you know, I am a sepia sexual for those of you that don’t know and every sense of the word, right? When somebody really can engage with me intellectually look me in the eye and sit down and have a conversation about something that we might even disagree, and it’s okay. I like disagreeing with smart people because we’re not gonna insult each other. We’re not gonna call each other names. We’re gonna dig in. And that’s exactly what I got to do with the beautiful Kate, from monogamous marriage.


Mallory Gordon  14:15

That is true. And we actually got to spend some time with her significant other as well. Liam. Yeah, yeah, it was the next day. Yeah, we got both. Like we got the both It was so good. And here I’m wondering if you’re gonna want run over like superlatives before you got to them.


Mickey Gordon  14:33

I can’t say enough about them. Everyone knows she’s hot because her pictures are fire. But it’s they’re just the most amazing people are so freaking brilliant.


Mallory Gordon  14:40

They’re brilliant. They’re very open, transparent and brutally honest. Not I wouldn’t say brutally. They’re just the honest people. You can really engage them and just about any conversation and they’ll meet you there.


Mickey Gordon  14:54

And spoiler alert, they’re gonna be on our next episode, so Oh, shit. Oh shit. Hey, one last thing before we jump. On to the next thing because we do have a couple of things to do before we get to the breakouts. But Kate from wanderlust swingers baddest bitch on the planet hands down is just insanely detail oriented, organized. Everything we said she was everything we thought this event would be what it was.


Mallory Gordon  15:18

Yeah. And her level of, you know, customer care customer service stations, even a customer client friend. Like she, she was everywhere. at every given moment. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  15:29

everywhere except by the back fence when I threatened to poke that guy in the eye.


Mallory Gordon  15:33

That’s true. It was a weirdo trying to look through like the Yeah, the fence where we were trying to block it off. So the topless Pool Party was private. Yeah, yeah.


Mickey Gordon  15:42

Yeah, we were putting out a privacy fence. And he kept pulling it to the side and I walked over there and I was like, dude, you ever seen The Three Stooges? He’s like, No, I was like, well, guess what’s gonna happen? I’m gonna poke in your damn eyes. If you poke listening to the side again. He’s like, how do I get in? Like you don’t it’s a private party. And I pulled it to the side and zip tie to shit. Yeah, but I was like, I’m gonna poke you in the eye. And I would have I would have poked him. Right. He would have been a one eyed bastard.


Mallory Gordon  16:03

Yeah. So you were essentially the guy at the gate at the Emerald study. That was good for you. That’s right. It was not a horse of a different color.


Mickey Gordon  16:10

Oh, damn it, you stole my line. That’s the only line I know. All right, what else is going on because we have a whole bunch of travels, we got a whole lot of things we’re doing that are not going to keep us from doing new episodes of casual swinger. We have the new to the next two episodes planned. And we’re gonna get through season three and get season four started for you guys without a break. So since we just took it six weeks, which is crazy.


Mallory Gordon  16:29

You heard it here, folks. You’re gonna mock and shame him if he doesn’t hold up his end of the bargain.


Mickey Gordon  16:35

All the ridicule Jesus Christ feeling I’m feeling sassy, Mrs. sassy little. So


Mallory Gordon  16:41

what are we what else we have going on? We’re going to see Derek and I can’t wait out in the Midwest to see our a couple of our favorite human beings in the planet. Hopefully it isn’t snow in July there.


Mickey Gordon  16:52

Yeah. I mean, it’s one of the two days of summer they have an Iowa Yeah. Right. So I’m looking forward to that. We’re going to St. Augustine in July, St. oggy. A couple of really actually, we’re going to couples that we adore. So we’re really excited about that.


Mallory Gordon  17:04

Yeah. And then to Nashville and August. This has been a trip that we we’ve been trying to do for it’s been a year, year and a half, almost two now.


Mickey Gordon  17:12

It was gonna be a meet and greet. And then management. Well, they didn’t go tits up. They just had to shut down. Get that that location as a church now I think, or a homeless shelter or something crazy. Okay. But there’s a new location from an edge and it’s not going to work out for this trip. So we’re just going to Nashville to see Randy Rogers band. I’m cool with that. I’ve never been to Nashville. Oh, Nashville is amazing. I can’t wait. We have two ASN awards in September.


Mallory Gordon  17:32

That’s right by our own backyard for a long weekend. middle of September, my birthday weekend, if anyone wants to show up and give me a little, you know. And then we’re going up north to the DC metro area.


Mickey Gordon  17:46

Yeah, we’re going back back to our roots back to the DC area for about a week because we’re going to be old.


Mallory Gordon  17:52

Yeah, your roots, my branches.


Mickey Gordon  17:55

And last but not least, guys, we’re going on our last trip with Rachel’s rascals two hedonism in November.


Mallory Gordon  18:02

I know I’m super excited. This is gonna be an amazing trip. I know. They’re almost sold out of rooms. I think Jim has a couple left.


Mickey Gordon  18:09

Yeah, he doesn’t have a lot. I know guys want to go on our last rascals for a while. That’s a we’re never going to wrestles again. By the way. We love the rascals. Yeah. Family. Yeah. 20s don’t have the PTO.


Mallory Gordon  18:18

Yeah, yeah. our day jobs are like, hey, by the way, you can’t take that much ever again. So yeah, we’re gonna take 2022 off at a minimum. Yeah, maybe we’ll end up at Hito at some point. time allows, that would be awesome. But


Mickey Gordon  18:32

make it work. But we can’t really do it as


Mallory Gordon  18:35

if you wanted to travel with us in the rascals both at the same time. Feel free to reach out to us. It’s casual swing, calm slash travel with us. Happy to provide you the info and get you in contact with those folks. You can book something.


Mickey Gordon  18:46

Yeah. Well, hey, we never bothered to tell anybody since this entire catch up. What? What this episode is about? Oh, yeah, we haven’t just left it off.


Mallory Gordon  18:56

Yeah. So you name this after meatloaf song, which I love you for. I would do anything for love. But I won’t do that. And we’re talking about play style dynamics, right?


Mickey Gordon  19:06

That’s right. Anything for Levin’s, but I won’t do that. Yeah, this is a play style dynamics episode where we’re gonna talk about the different dynamics. Do people endure any new dynamic that we just embarked on?


Mallory Gordon  19:16

Yeah, this has been since the last Yeah. Last. Yeah. I think since our last episode. Yeah, just barely. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  19:23

So we did embark on a new dynamic in our play style. We’re going to talk about that we come back in just a couple of minutes. Sorry about this long intro guys. It’s been a while we’re a little rusty But hey, maybe you’ll enjoy it and hang in there with us. Mallory. As usual. Would you like to tell everybody where to find


Mallory Gordon  19:37

I can remember we are casual swinger everywhere. Guys, that’s our website. Casual swinger calm if you’d love to send us a message, feel free to email us podcast at casual swing calm and find us on social media. That’s Facebook, YouTube, Instagram and of course Twitter because it’s the only place you can post pictures anymore book and then the dating sites That’s double date, nation, as Lessons CC and Cassidy.


Mickey Gordon  20:02

That’ll do it. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll be back in just a couple of seconds and we will talk about playstyle dynamics. You’ve been listening to casual this week. Okay, gang. Welcome back to casual swinger. My name is Mickey. And I am Mallory. I figured you guys got that shit figured out by now we’re going to talk about playstyle dynamics, the way we play in the lifestyle. It’s kind of a defining characteristic. It’s one of the first things people ask when you meet them on a on a website or on a dating service or in person that is your club. What do you fall into? What do you do? How do you play?


Mallory Gordon  20:48

Yeah, and that’s fascinating, because why is it so easy to talk about the things you’re not into? And you won’t do it? But it’s usually hard or harder for people to say what they do want.


Mickey Gordon  21:00

They almost never do and especially on places like w eight nation or STC you see, you know, we do not play separately Don’t even ask, it’s like the first thing that something African often doesn’t have, you know, single guys, right? How about that one? That one’s on a lot of profile. My favorite one is University of Sydney, you’re not allowed to use these photos? You there is no University of Sydney.


Mallory Gordon  21:20

Okay? I mean, even us we have you know, no assholes including ours. That’s true. You know, because we don’t do but you’ve been asked for Angel hadn’t asked, but I say no every time just about it. At least that’s something you’ve been asked, right? Because the only guys that want to do it have like, can get friction off a pickle jar. And I don’t want my butthole to look different the next day or our butthole. And yours. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  21:42

you know, Matt Serra’s ears or something? Gross, big old, lumpy butthole. cauliflower crew, Okay, stop. That’s not sexy. But you know, in 15 years in the lifestyle, you know, we’ve seen so many of these warnings in the dating sites and all these things. People say that I’m not doing this. And and we’re not this, we’re not that. And I mean, don’t get me wrong, the vast majority of these profiles are beautiful. And they say we’re a soft swap couple, or we’re full swap couple and great. That’s a great way to do it. We applaud you completely. But then you go to another one. And it’s like, Don’t ever think you’re going to speak to my wife without me standing right next to you. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  22:23

I love which is kind of a default. And we can talk about how it fit into the dynamic. We’re gonna speak about later, that you know, only group chats period. I’ve tried to talk to us individually. I know. And one pump? Well, I don’t know. Anyway, I just wanted to bring that up. Well, cuz I have seen it quite a few times. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  22:45

And in 15 years of being in the lifestyle together, I’ve never one time to maybe maybe you’ll disagree with me. But I just kind of thought back on this when we were putting the framework of this together in our minds. We’ve never been asked to do anything behind each other’s back. I picked that guy, Adam the douchebag. In the beginning,


Mallory Gordon  23:03

I also the girl that propositioned you at one of the functions we did and said, I didn’t and hers need to know. Yeah. And that’s only recently that was only recently I saw that in the notes. And I’m like, oh, call you out on the air. Yeah, that was okay. I forgot it. But it doesn’t. It’s not common. It’s just it’s a it’s a rarity. And it’s it’s just one of those implied unspoken things.


Mickey Gordon  23:27

Yeah, at least. And did I just draw on my forehead? He did. Okay, that’s okay. I’m scratching my head with my pen. And I realize I’m scratching at the wrong but


Mallory Gordon  23:33

like, leaving your partner out of the conversation specifically, like that whole group chat only, you know, I’ve never had an experience that I was speaking directly to somebody else, whether it was the male or female in the group without one, letting it be known that that’s was what I was doing. Like, especially if it’s her, I’ll ask her, or I’ll ask her if it’s okay to text him. Oh, of course, which that’s only happened a couple times. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  23:57

And it is something that was fairly foreign to us. And I think we discovered, we kind of like it, we kind of like be able to have a little bit of direct conversation. And the end of the way when we talk about, we’re not leaving anyone out of the conversation, it just gives you an opportunity to more directly get to know somebody that you might be getting to know intimately at some point. But the way that I personally handle it, is I just kind of assume that my conversation with this person is going to be repeated verbatim to their partner. So I would never say anything to them that I wouldn’t say if their partner wasn’t sitting right there. I think that should be everyone’s rule of thumb. Yeah, just just assume that it’s gonna be like parroted Yeah. And badly. Think about telephone, right? Think about that game. Imagine it’s gonna go off. You’re like, You’re beautiful. And you’re back. He said, I had buck teeth, but they were pretty happy. Assume No,


Mallory Gordon  24:51

I don’t know how you got from point A to point B, but I do second telephone. No, I understood that analogy.


Mickey Gordon  24:58

But I don’t think I’ve ever really heard Did anyone ask me to leave you out of the conference now until now,


Mallory Gordon  25:02

it’s a good point that we’ve never been asked to play separately unless it was already on the table or discussed prior. Yeah, that’s true. Nobody ever said it’s, well, no, you


Mickey Gordon  25:12

know what, maybe I cut my own nose off to spite my face there. Because I have had people say that we would like to play with Mallory, but not you. What’s Yeah, that’s a dress. And what’s usually Well, I mean, dating sites, their location, can we hook up with her? We’re looking for a girl and she’s hot. Like don’t even know what it look like. It’s not like they look to me or like, hey, Quasimodo, can we talk to your wife? That’s not what happened. They just were looking for a girl and they thought, hey, you’re hot. Let’s do that. And me, by the way, well,


Mallory Gordon  25:40

and maybe it was just another like in their methodology. You know, some people, you know, unicorn, you know, hunting unicorns is challenging. And maybe the lower hanging fruit is finding a female that’s allowed to play separately with a couple. I mean, we’ve we’ve seen a lot more of that dynamic in the last three or four years and we saw of unicorns That’s true.


Mickey Gordon  26:00

And I you know, what? unicorn exchange is a great playstyle


Mallory Gordon  26:03

Yeah, unicorn exchange. Yeah, that sounds like a white elephant game. Like you play Christmas Eve. Exchange right? Instead of the slot where swap it’s just this one swap. Hey, let’s talk to TdnN see if they can create like a microsite that’s just for unicorn.


Mickey Gordon  26:16

That’s actually a brilliant idea. Even Andy if you’re listening, set that shit up. Right? You know, so I guess maybe in 15 years, we’ve kind of been asked to do all those things but not egregiously you know,


Mallory Gordon  26:29

never end poor taste or bad behavior. I think the two that you mentioned are probably the the only ones that I would give that kind of notation to


Mickey Gordon  26:37

I left a big one off there. Sorry about that. But that’s okay. No, but we have been asked to do a few things that are big no nose like a bareback.


Mallory Gordon  26:46

Oh, yeah. Which is it hasn’t come up in a long time. But when it does, at my always so foreign to me, and I’m like, I don’t think um, no, definitely, most definitely not. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  26:58

I know couples that are they’re fairly, I don’t wanna say, I don’t know what the word is because it’s not monogamous. And it’s not polyamorous because they’re not in love. And they are two couples, it’s dogmas. I don’t know what it is, but where they are kind of hooked up and they’re fluid bonded and cool. They’re the only people they’re fucking monogamous. swingers have exclusive play partners. There we go. Yeah, maybe? I mean, he and that’s cool. But you meet him at a club? No.


Mallory Gordon  27:27

Yeah. What about we’ve been asked to surprise their partner for a birthday and let’s be honest, you did that to me. For one of my birthday. I


Mickey Gordon  27:36

did. Yeah. But at the same time, it was still a four person event. I just invited them down as a surprise. Here’s our friends that we play with all the time. And we’re all gonna hang out for your and I invited a bunch of your vanilla girlfriends to Okay, that he tried to fuck


Mallory Gordon  27:52

Yes. Rewind that tape for a second. Can you imagine Put yourself in my shoes. It’s my birthday. We have the swinger couple that we had been swinging with for quite some time. He’s very gregarious. Oh my, my girl circle pole dancing friends. Yes, my girl circle there. And he was hitting on all of them. So it’s them. All my girls it was it was a melding of two worlds that oh, well, if they hadn’t figured it out, they knew that most of them were most of them had. No I don’t they weren’t there was only one


Mickey Gordon  28:25

they were sexually non monogamous experience Havers on the regular I don’t know what you want to call it. No, they weren’t don’t know the No, they weren’t only one of them was the other two found interest in it. They’re the ones that are closeted, or like to insecure now one of them ended up having experiences but the rest of him at that point she had not, I guess I am building some of those. Yeah, you’re you’re making up the story that fits your narrative and how but wow. Wow, hi, guys, Mickey’s back and he’s a dick. That’s right. The new Mickey is a penis. You know, I we have had people ask us to expand boundaries that we’ve set prior to play in the heat of the moment. Now that is, like, you know, bareback is just off the table. It’s just really awful. But we talked about, you know, people are like, oh, by the way, I know you said you wouldn’t do blah, but since we’re here anyway. Things like being offered drugs. Yeah. Yep. You know, that’s and say, Hey, well, we brought some of this with us anyway. How would you like to do that? I’m like, Yeah, I feel like I can totally trust you. What else do you have in that trench game?


Mallory Gordon  29:28

Yeah, well, I mean, and I’m not gonna be like somebody else’s young but it does change the dynamic for me. You know, if they want to do whatever they want to do, that’s fine. But it also means if they’re under the influence, I don’t feel as great about it because I won’t do it. Oh, yeah. Well, that’s a different and that’s a that’s just a personal choice for me. That’s me not judging them.


Mickey Gordon  29:46

Why can I consider drug use to be the same as alcohol, that excessive use of alcohol is a consent issue for me and I consider to be drug use the same Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  29:56

even if like everyone’s totally sober and they decide to overindulged. Yeah during Yeah, even then that makes me uncomfortable. Exactly. And I’m



not gonna judge you for it. I’m just not gonna play with you. I mean, it’s Yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see here and babysit you and bring you snacks, right? Yeah, events


Mickey Gordon  30:12

we go to or we don’t play. It has nothing to do with not winning play with people just sometimes it’s just not right. Yeah. How about and this is kind of the last one before we kind of move on? Is it the picture swapping? Oh, every fucking time you get somebody like from Kentucky who’s like, Hey, I know I don’t live anywhere near Central Florida. But let’s exchange pictures and jerk off. Can’t wait, Steve, let’s do that.


Mallory Gordon  30:31

It’s just not our bag. And it’s I guess it makes it a little foreign to us. And I think it’s more common than we really know. That pick pick exchange is a thing. Well, I don’t know. It’s kind of hot with people, you know? Yeah. But I mean, maybe it’s a little bit of a fetish one as people you don’t know. I’m not sure.


Mickey Gordon  30:48

We have some friends that are amazing photographers. And they have beautiful Oh my God. And so when they want to share photographs, it’s super sexy, but we know them. It’s not and so why are we including this in play style dynamics? Because I think for some people that is their playstyle because maybe their partner has no idea. Yeah. Maybe they’re just not into maybe their partner is the slowest person. And so they’re like, Look, let’s just do it this way. And it’ll just be hot and we can look at pictures and talk about it for a year


Mallory Gordon  31:15

plausible. We could probably come up with a six different ideas of you know what we don’t know that could be right, we make up the makeup the in between, but I do find it as an interesting or fascinating behavior. But not that I want. I want to subscribe to


Mickey Gordon  31:29

No, no, it’s I don’t do it. I mean, I do different stuff with our photographs. Anyway, I get a lot of shit online for it. I get a message probably once a week, from some morning dude going, Hey, all these other people have only fans, all these other people are showing off, you know, more TNA more explicit, you know, pussy pictures, why don’t you do that? You should do that. Send them to me. Just send me It’s okay. Just send him to me. Like Yo, my God, dude, you’re so right. Let me just send you this directory of 12,000 photos of Mallory’s vagina that I have. All right, it’s 9000. I’m not that weird. Okay. But so let’s talk about some of the different playstyles. Yes, yeah, the different ones that we’ve encountered and embarked on and what they are


Mallory Gordon  32:10

you kind of? Yeah, you kind of want to go in order from like, most common, most common or where a lot of people start, like, let’s say same room? Sure. See, maybe probably the most common place. The same room could be soft swap could be full swap, but everyone resides in plays in the same square footage area. There’s a door there, everyone’s on one side of it.


Mickey Gordon  32:30

Yeah. And I think that’s popular for safety reasons people feel comfortable. And I do think that that’s one of the biggest challenges both for women and for men for different reasons, that when you go to embark on a non monogamous adventure with another couple, what you’re doing is you’re handing the person you care about the most as a female or a male, to someone else to have intimate time with. And it’s a very vulnerable position for both parties.


Mallory Gordon  32:56

Oh, extremely. When we first started, I was definitely not comfortable being out of your eyesight. I wasn’t necessarily as concerned about keeping tabs on you. I mean, I was interested in what you were doing, but it just felt so foreign and very uncomfortable in the beginning to be outside of there. Like I remember, there was a time early on, I think you left to get like water for everybody. And in my head. I decided that you were you were gone for too long. And I remember feeling so anxious and paranoid. Someone was talking to me and it was like Charlie Brown’s teacher. Yeah. Wah wah, wah, wah. Exactly. I’m like, I know your lips are moving. But don’t understand anything you’re fucking saying right now. Is mine’s my anxieties like peaked? Yeah, I don’t I don’t know why I think it is.


Mickey Gordon  33:43

My person’s disappeared. Maybe he ran off maybe he met somebody and maybe forgot about


Mallory Gordon  33:47

No, me and my brain no be found down. You know, the stairs are being carted off in an ambulance. Definitely. No. Well, again, I guess so. She’s dead. I’m fun. I’ve always cared like you’re hurt or injured.


Mickey Gordon  34:02

You have to worry that I fall into my do a single storey building.


Mallory Gordon  34:07

That’s my worst case scenario, like you were abducted by aliens. Or I don’t know. I just worry about you.


Mickey Gordon  34:14

I’m so glad somebody does. Because the whole world out there is going god he’s an idiot. So what about group play? I think group play and people think same room but group play. What I mean by that is to some for some more some Yeah. Right. It’s it could be more than for sure. Because same room can be. I mean, one of my favorite parts about hotel rooms is they have a sex bed and sleep. Oh, yeah. But when you have a couple over there most experts, that’s true. But if you’re all in one bed, that’s group playing, okay. Right. It’s you’re all in the same space. That means you may have incidental contact. Yes, that’s my foot. Get off me. By you know,


Mallory Gordon  34:48

yeah. Which is the wrong order of those words. That should be get me off.


Mickey Gordon  34:51

That’s right. Get me love. But I do think it’s different. I think that dog pile in group play. Some people really dig it and it’s going Have a fun dynamic. Oh, yeah. Yeah. My friends that really dig it.


Mallory Gordon  35:05

Yeah, no, I love it. Because that means more hands for pets. Which I love my pets you do.


Mickey Gordon  35:13

But yeah, I personally don’t love group play. It’s not my thing, mostly because I have ADD like a motherfucker.


Mallory Gordon  35:20

Yeah, you and I have talked about that. So I think it’s add is one of the reasons you and I understand each other and yours is a little different than mine. But like we overlap and I’m not gonna say Venn diagram even though I just did. Um, there we go again, folks. Another Venn diagram from Matt, we have overlapping tendencies, so we understand each other. But your your tics and hesitations and like where you tend to refocus is totally different work than than I so. But yeah, I can see my dog pals, like, it’s good for me because I have multiple things going on that allowed me to focus on me. It’s weird, like I listen to music or watch Netflix while I work, even when I’m doing some intense research, because it allows me to focus because there’s other things going on. I don’t know how you do that same reason I need a fan on at night. I need the noise I need to that tactile feeling of the wind on my face and listen to the noise.


Mickey Gordon  36:12

Like the only time I can listen to music while I work is when I’m doing accounting for casual toys or taxes or expense reports at work when I’m doing mindless shit. I was gonna say odd number for AIFF to call it Yeah, autonomic functions. Yeah. But if I’m trying to do for JB for casual swinger, I’m working on a website working on graphics. I can’t


Mallory Gordon  36:31

Yeah, and see, the more creative or in depth it is the more I need it. But I digress. So what about separate room play? That’s another dynamic


Mickey Gordon  36:42

that is another dynamic. And we’re gonna talk a lot more about that in a minute. But, you know, separate room is something that I think a lot of people are terrified of,


Mallory Gordon  36:50

especially in the beginning, a lot of people never explore that.


Mickey Gordon  36:53

No, they don’t. And again, for a lot of reasons, there’s trust security, there’s concern for maybe something’s gonna happen that I have no control over, or maybe even just basic logistics. Like, what happens if one couple finishes? are we all going to go watch TV until they get done in that other room? It’s tough. Yeah, it’s stuff you have to communicate about beforehand. And you know, we talked about this a lot in our podcast a Palooza session, but communication is pretty goddamn key. Because things like separate room, that’s where it’s really important. I mean, you’re gonna go beat on the door and go, Hey, I came get out of there. We’re done now. Oh, that’s not how that works. But separate room is very uncommon, actually, from our experience, almost as uncommon as people talking separately and as opposed to in group chats and stuff. Interesting that you mentioned that it is but we’re gonna get back to that. Is that foreshadowing? Yes. And literature we call that foreshadowing, folks? I love you. He’s so good at this about hot wife and cut clay. Let’s talk about them.


Mallory Gordon  37:48

Yeah, I mean, obviously, that’s another dynamic right hot wife, click Play stag, vixen? Anything, you can kind of throw those under an umbrella in a way. All little different in their own sense. But when one player goes out, player, a player a player don’t hate the player hate the game. When one player three is in the game, are we gonna make you explain it? When when one spouse of the couple goes out and plays with another individual or even another a couple of times, or? Yeah, no,


Mickey Gordon  38:22

it is well and so it can be cocky can be cut Queen, cut queen is a female cook. By the way for those that don’t know what that is. But yeah, it’s it’s when one person goes out and plays and the other one gets hella turned on by it and stays home and tries out like hell not to spank their monkey because they want to bug the crap out of their partner when they get home. It’s actually extremely common.


Mallory Gordon  38:43

Yeah, it’s more common than I would have thought. 15 years ago.


Mickey Gordon  38:49

Yeah. It’s outrageously common. Yeah. And how about soft swap full swap oral only? Right. It’s i think i think we that’s all kind of know what those things are. The weird one for me is where people are like oral only Yeah, like don’t touch me down there. But you can kiss it and I we’ve actually had a couple they don’t kiss me. Yes. Don’t get me. It’s all me on the poster. You can hear touch it.


Mallory Gordon  39:16

You can kiss me where it smells funny. But definitely a lot on the lips. Sure.


Mickey Gordon  39:21

I get it. I guess I don’t understand it. I’m not gonna do it. I don’t think it should smell funny. No, it doesn’t smell your smells delicious. Thanks. Yeah. Like, like fairies are down there. It’s going here have fairy dust. Nice. rainbows and sunshine. Yes. Oh, no. rainbows are unicorn farts. Yours don’t smell like unicorn farts.


Mallory Gordon  39:39

Yeah. And then there’s the other dynamic and it’s usually like the disclaimer dynamic. Right? Right. I would do we can do all of the things anything but insert what’s only reserved for my spouse here


Mickey Gordon  39:53

that like kissing. Kissing is a great example of that. Yeah, I only kissed my partner. You know, I can’t I cannot have sex without kissing. I just Kid,


Mallory Gordon  40:00

I can’t, I cannot find. I can’t even imagine trying to find a level of sexual draw desire to someone that I can’t kiss because it’s a precursor. Like when you kiss someone, that’s when the wheels start turning, and you start to anticipate what kind of lover they could potentially be. Yeah, that’s that first gate


Mickey Gordon  40:21

fetish. Well, that’s it, they can’t kiss your face. They’re not going to kiss your pussy worth a damn. That’s a good point, right? Because if they’re too rough, if they’re like, chomping on your cheek or something, or


Mallory Gordon  40:32

biting your tongue, I’ve had somebody do that before, which is very strange.


Mickey Gordon  40:35

I go, like, Oh, my tongue. Or how about reserving like, things that the spouse won’t do? Like? Like, for example, I we’ve actually had this conversation, maybe where some playstyle is, I’m really looking for anal, because my wife won’t do it. And my wife’s totally fine with it. She’s right here, see? And she goes, Yeah, you’re right. I won’t, but you can.


Mallory Gordon  40:54

Or the opposite, because I’m uncomfortable with it. It’s not part of our dynamic in or out of this situation.


Mickey Gordon  41:01

Yeah. So and again, that a lot of this sounds like yucking, somebody else’s yum. And I promise it’s not. It’s just kind of an overview of some of those different dynamics that are out there. They’re all okay, if everyone involved is okay with it. Sure. But if not, everybody’s okay with it. Where’s the where’s this come in? failures of communication. So what ends up happening is because you’re afraid of how people are going to react, people don’t like what you’re going to say, maybe you think that they’re not going to be okay with it. Maybe you hold it back, and then you end up asking for it in the heat of the moment. And that’s how that first thing happens that we talked about earlier in the segment, that now in the heat of the moment, you bring something up, that’s all new, that’s a terrible time to introduce something new. If you didn’t communicate it about it beforehand, then probably shouldn’t communicate about it while you’re having sex. Right? don’t pop new shit on partners and swinging. That’s


Mallory Gordon  41:53

not a good idea. Yeah, no, no, yeah. No, that’s, that’s terrible idea. And so where are we even talking about this? Because I think that overview went a little long. We have a fucking point to this. I don’t care. We haven’t done a show in six weeks, they’re probably gonna forgive us for it. So how about let’s ask a question, Where are we with our exploration? shoots happened in the last six weeks? Yeah. Yeah. I love that. We’re still doing new things over these years. But I’m also shocked that we it took us this long to explore it, and maybe it was just the right time, the right people.


Mickey Gordon  42:22

That’s what I think is gonna happen here in a second, we are going to let our listeners know that there’s something that we hadn’t done before, and they will probably have assume that we did. That’s true. And it’s probably going to be a little shocking.


Mallory Gordon  42:36

Okay, are we gonna give it to them? Because we’re not due for a break. All right, let’s give it to them. Okay, so, since we last spoke to all of you, we actually had legit separate room play. Yeah. And I say legit, because we’ve had play where maybe you were on the main level doing something else. And I was still there. And it’s it’s kind of open air like in reference to our domicile? Sure. And I’ve gone out and done the single guy hot wife thing. But that’s not really separate room because you’re home or elsewhere doing non swinger things. Yeah, they were in it was normal. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  43:12

I thought it would be very normal transition. But it’s still kind of came out. Like, like, don’t like we all huddled was like okay, and break. And?


Mallory Gordon  43:21

Yeah, yeah, kind of a little bit. But it wasn’t weird. It wasn’t weird. So Woody. So what do we think of it? What? How did how did that transpire?


Mickey Gordon  43:30

I kind of want to hear your thoughts on that. First.


Mallory Gordon  43:34

Okay. So I thought it was amazing. Actually, I very much enjoyed it. I had some reservations, of course, because it’s anything new. Right? You it’s an unknown quantity. So you don’t know what to expect after the fact. Right. And we’ve done such a good job at connecting with these folks. And that leads into something we foreshadowed, folks, is that we actually had an opportunity to engage with them individually. Yeah. And almost like a three way conversation. So we had a group chat with all of us in one place. You know, I would talk to her, I would talk to him, you would talk to her and you kind of talk to him a little bit, I believe. Yeah. Yeah, I like him. He’s a good guy. But we got to know each other a little more intimately. You know, leading up to them coming here, or meeting up? Yeah. And I think it actually helped a lot to establish this foundation and comfort level.


Mickey Gordon  44:33

Here’s what I liked about it. What it allowed us to take very different paths from point A to point B, when a group chat, people tend to follow the leader. So if things get naughty, then it’s a naughty chat for everybody. Yeah. But when you have that separate, segregated conversation, you can move, the two people might move slower than the other two people in terms of their path to being a little more risque or a little more I get it. But we all still arrived at the same place. We just arrived there at different times, which I thought was really interesting.


Mallory Gordon  45:07

Yeah. And I mean, it allowed us because when you think about it from a strategic in this sounds really kidzone candor and authentic in a way, but from a strategic perspective, you want to give the best opportunity to connect with that individual that you’re primarily going to be sleeping with. It’s not your partner. Yeah. And I think that really opened the door, because for me group chats, everyone’s schedules a little different. So I had trouble following and being on the same page as everyone else, when you reduce the number of people to just one other person and the person you’re praying to, nobody gets left behind. And then the two of you are going at your own pace. Yeah. And what was great is everyone was communicating and kind of giving, like summaries or bullet points that are up to date, because we’ve had problems with that in the past where we’ve independently spoken with one person. And they didn’t tell the other person like, you know, you never know how someone’s gonna feel about some things. Let’s trigger and, you know, even they’re just words, they can hurt sometimes. Oh, or be an issue. And this was not the case. It was absolutely wonderful.


Mickey Gordon  46:15

Yeah, it’s, I think it is, and I think we, we kind of covered what was good about it, was there anything bad about it from your perspective that would that would lead us to, we don’t want to do that, again, that plays out and work for us, or the lead into that play style wasn’t effective for us?


Mallory Gordon  46:30

You know, I will update you, if I identify anything that I can say was bad or negative or even indifferent to, yeah, um, nothing’s coming to mind me


Mickey Gordon  46:43

either. I can tell you that. For me. It was a lot of confetti in the air like it. Yeah, it was really good for me, because I have ADD like a motherfucker. So I said that earlier. And it really let me focus on the other person a little bit, which made it a lot more intimate, especially for that person, because I think she needed that. And I think I would absolutely do it again. Matter of fact, I’m looking forward to doing it again. And I think you’re as well. That I am as well, what looking forward to doing it again. Are you paying attention? Are


Mallory Gordon  47:10

you I am you swallowing something? I don’t know, an Egor? I don’t know. I missed that.


Mickey Gordon  47:16

But yeah, I’m looking forward to doing it again, because I think everything about it was great. And the last thing that I have for you is why in the hell have we done that before?


Mallory Gordon  47:24

You know, after all these years, I look back and I’m thinking the same thing. We’ve had some very close relationships. And I don’t know if it was a reflection of the other couples dynamic or that we just never asked or really thought about it. That or that intentionally. Because for us, we’ve only really pursued like, the hot wife kind of aspects. Because that does feed. You and I in a very personal and intimate environment. So dirty for us. And we’ve we love it. Yeah, I’m not really sure I came up with nothing when we were going through the notes on this. Yeah. I came up with it. There’s no I don’t. I don’t know if there was if we had any walls up with that. Do you think you did?


Mickey Gordon  48:12

I think that I had a irrational fear of a dynamic forming that never formed, I think I had an irrational fear that we would lose communicative points that we would lose the group dynamic that it would become about two separate relationships and not the group. And I think what we did really well was maintain that group chat as well as the individual chats.


Mallory Gordon  48:36

Yeah, we didn’t nurture the conversations as a whole. And just like we nurtured the playtime as a whole because it wasn’t just separate room play. I mean, we actually led with it, which was kind of funny. And like, in hindsight, but we also had group play. And it, it was actually a good physical reflection of the conversations we were having. Right? It was, it was fun. It was it was interesting, because I think she led the charge and the initial play separate. And then he did as well. And I was really proud of them. And for many reasons that we won’t get into that. They were kind of like the ringleaders there. And then we we did the group play thing, and it was almost poetic. It was beautiful. Yeah, I


Mickey Gordon  49:21

wish they’d come to podcasts of blues, I think we would have had a lot of fun. We probably would have been a lot less useful to all the attendees.


Mallory Gordon  49:26

I was gonna say we would have not been as hopeful or as present probably. Really, where’s the MC he’s in his room. And a lot of sex anyway.


Mickey Gordon  49:36

Well, what are your thoughts on transitioning between playstyles because, you know, I think everybody starts somewhere some people start soft and seem room or or oral only or they start girl girl only, right? I mean, they were there. Everybody’s got some list of fucked up rules when they get started. We did everybody else has.


Mallory Gordon  49:56

I don’t want to call them fucked up because everyone I mean, if it’s their rules, it’s a prerogative. Sure.


Mickey Gordon  50:00

But is there a way to progress between playstyles? If you wanted to do so in your opinion?


Mallory Gordon  50:04

I mean, sure there is. I mean, we did it. Of course there is, but it’s got to be ever the slowest person’s pace, right? I just think it’s crazy that we haven’t ever really done it before. It’s so mind blowing to me. It’s


Mickey Gordon  50:20

equally mind blowing, would you do it again, I would 100% do it again, even necessarily, with a different couple, but with some caveats. Okay, then obviously, with that couple because it worked out magically was fantastic. So of course, I’m going to do it again. But with, you know, the caveats for a new couple are that we do maintain that group dynamic, and that we let everybody know, they know that we do talk to each other, we are going to communicate wholly and completely we’re going to communicate for ways and make sure that everybody’s on the same page and find out what all of us want from our playtime. Yeah, right. What are you looking for? What you know, what scares you? Because I think irrational fear is the thing that grenades a good time. It really does.


Mallory Gordon  51:06

Yeah, no, I get that. And I don’t know, this is something we could blink, blink it do with just about anyone, per se, right, because everyone’s got their own, you know, rules and regulations and comfort zones. But if we are I do like the approach we took, I think it made it comfortable, more comfortable for all parties. And I think it led to better sex to Oh, God.


Mickey Gordon  51:25

Yes. It was awesome. Yeah, but you know, I will tell you the thing that always kind of stopped me over the years, because I’ve been in the lifestyle very long time. And I’ve done some separate room stuff, you know, before you. And the thing that I always I always go back to and I always think about is how much do I trust this person with the person I love the most. Okay. And I think that’s one of the barriers for people is is my spouse, wife, girlfriend, fuck, buddy, whatever, are they going to be? Okay. And if you are worried about it, you probably shouldn’t be playing with a couple at all. Yeah, and I think the, in my opinion, that’s just my humble opinion. Can


Mallory Gordon  52:02

I get into my experience? I think it was the second time we had departed to do separate room pleasure show to talk. Yeah, so there was a little unexpected anxiety but it was a blend of anxiety and excitement and the best way and God I hope there’s people out there that watch tik tok that know who this person is because this is the I know, I can paint the picture. So there is a woman on tik tok, and she does these sleepwalking videos or no it is silliness. Spooky boo. she the one that farts? Yes. But I did not fart. So you guys are still up there. We had just finished at least like the first or second round. And I went to come like inspections like checking and reading and get waters and all these things. And I’m literally like Scooby Doo gang like tttt tttt, the main floor and like, I want to celebrate all of the things that have just happened. But I’m also not sure of like what I’m supposed to do with myself and what the next steps are. So it was like a robot ran out of the room, grab some water, come back in, lay back down, take the robot hang out, maybe learn a little bit. Get up, put the robe back on, run out giggle look for people. No one come back to the room. Like it was. It was a lot like her videos when she’s in that euphoric state. And she’s just running around giggling and like, going in the fridge and offering inanimate objects like drinks. That was that was pretty much me. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  53:27

Meanwhile, I’m upstairs doing nothing playing checkers. Yeah, well with a pillow over her face because she was loud. I’m gonna call her checkers from now on. I was playing checkers. Look, if your add is Fuck, like I am, I will say this, that you’re transitioning to a separate room playtime is actually pretty beneficial. It was beneficial for me because you know, when we are in a group dynamic or steam room dynamic, I tend to focus on Mallory,


Mallory Gordon  53:54

okay. And I love that I’m your favorites, human being and I love that you’re so interested, and my pleasure and my happiness, that that’s a part of it. But I have, I do feel like it’s a hindrance on your own pleasure, because then you focus there takes away from your partner. But it also could potentially take away from your ability to get off. It does every time. And when we were talking about the separate play. I’m like, you know, I would really love to see how this impacts your ability to have more orgasms. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  54:30

I think it does impact it. One of the things that I remember is obviously a few weeks ago, but one of the things I remember the most is that I had zero trouble I normally like condoms are an issue right and unique condom has been a huge boon for me. The unique condoms are the most sensitive condom I’ve ever felt. So I think it was a combination of the unique condoms and the separate room right? But are you gonna tell you’re gonna make jokes about the fucking labels on the condoms? I know. But those condoms And the separate room made it to where I had no reptile issues at all like I was harder than Chinese algebra the whole fucking time. I was I was as hard as on naturale


Mallory Gordon  55:09

man, like all natural like you were ready to go with it. I know nothing. I was super excited for that. That was wonderful. You know, I enjoyed using the condoms as well. It definitely helps me a lot of them. You owe me money. I was lucky. That was rude. But one of the best parts was picking the stickers off your guys’s butts and balls because apparently as girls are you guys when like I put them on every time. I think he kind of liked it. But they never failed like, because it’s Dickerson you’re crevasses.


Mickey Gordon  55:51

I know I had one of my ball sack in the shower. And I was like, why do I have a green sticker? There’s one I can’t remember whose button was on. But it’s the sticker. See insert penis here. Oh, no, it was the best flick. It’s not close to taking a picture. Definitely not my button. Alright, well look, we’re gonna come back in just a hot second for you guys. I This episode is going to run just a couple of minutes long. But we don’t want to leave this out. We’re gonna come back and talk a Mallory’s toy box. We’re going to talk about the poem power extreme. It’s a new one. So awesome. Yeah, Mallory is going to talk all about this. I am



I was a little scared of it. Not gonna lie. But we’ll get into that all new stuff. Mallory want to let everybody know where to find us. And we’ll be back in a whole second.


Mallory Gordon  56:31

Yeah, we’re casual swimmer everywhere. It’s casual swing, calm, you can reach out to us podcast at casual swinger calm. If you like us want to leave us some love notes. Feel free to do that on iTunes. let other people know that we’re great. We’re also on social media. That’s Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And you can find us on the dating apps as well. That’s why Celeste sec and Cassidy.


Mickey Gordon  56:56

You know, it’s funny. I sit over here and I mock you for this like in my head. And I know that I could never do what you do. I could never get all that.


Mallory Gordon  57:02

Yeah. And he tried to distract me by counting and like trying to recite it or move your lips the same time as me. I’m an awful person. Yeah, I


Mickey Gordon  57:09

don’t know why you love me or suck my penis. That’s a great penis. There it is, folks. He’s got a great penis and he and his penis. We’ll be back with the beautiful Mallory in just a second. You’ve been listening to casually.


Mallory Gordon  57:35

Hey, guys, welcome back to casual swinger. It’s Mallory again. Did you get confused about what show this is? Oh, well, back to you. Casual I didn’t say. No, you didn’t. I did though. Jerk. Hey, welcome to my box. I love your box. Do you like to see what’s inside my box today? A few things inside your box in the last six weeks? That’s true. I’ve been playing with a lot of different things. Mm hmm. Yum, yum. Mallory’s toy box? Yeah. So yeah, we’re gonna do a toy box session because I feel rather spoiled these days. I got a few new toys over the last, you know, six weeks that we’ve been on hiatus unbeknownst to our listeners, you have a stack of toys I do. And this one I’m really excited about. You know, I’m a big proponent and supporter of the womanizer, that thing has changed my life. And I still love my ones I just struggled to use ones during play. Because of the ergonomics of it and the placement of it because of typically where I like to have the dual stimulation. I’m usually on my knees or face down or on my side. So it’s a curved like we’re spooning essentially, while we’re fucking are you doing me doggy style, but you used to use a wand every time I used to. Yeah, I used to use the nachi. And it just got to the point that was too cumbersome. To do so to hold the angles, right. And we placed Ray and I got so clunky that it was frustrating. It was actually taken away from potential natural orgasms. And oh, it was just a nightmare. That’s when we actually got the wedge because a wedge had the Hitachi o hole for it. Which is amazing. But it’s still not useful except for in that one position. Yeah, that’s right. We hadn’t figured like I’ve tried to bear hug it. Down face up. Yeah. That’s sitting, isn’t it? Looking at you, Derek. Yeah, so we found this toy. Actually, you found this toy and surprise me with it. There was a little goodie bag that was waiting for me when I get home. And it’s called a poem power extreme. And I keep on I call it a Palm Pilot. I know that’s like something totally else. It’s a utilitarian and outdated archaic tool. Now Ellery has dated herself. Hey, did everyone should date themselves. You do see sex toys all the time. But what I love about this, so it’s a one, but it’s a tilted one. Like it’s got it’s got an angled head. It does. And I was right before we started recording this. I was like, I don’t know how to describe it. You That hockey stick or a golf club, and yeah, that’s kind of the nature of it. So the head is perpendicular almost to the handle. It’s about a 4550 degree angle from the handle. Yeah. And it’s actually a really great angle. So if I’m laying on my belly or on my side, I don’t have to put my wrist in my hand in an uncomfortable position to make contact to where I feel is natural and comfortable for me. You can almost lay it flat on your belly. I could almost lay flat on my belly. You’re correct. Yeah, yes, almost lay flat on my belly and have this right underneath. It’s got a little bit of height to it. So I do have to like kick my hips up a little bit or use a pillow, which is or a wedge, which is kind of my go to like the little soft wedge, not the big wedge. But what I love about this is it’s got a few things going for it is water resistant. So no, don’t take it in the bathtub. It’s not submergible but you know, if I was in the shower if you’re squirter totally fine. Okay, yeah, silicone head. It’s got a silicone head. It’s USB rechargeable, which is kind of a half, two, there’s not many battery operated toys out there that, you know, I would go to, you know, the maps for these days. rechargeables kind of everything in my toy bag right now.


Mickey Gordon  1:01:09

You know what I noticed about the rechargeable part though? It’s a micro USB.


Mallory Gordon  1:01:12

Micro USB. Yeah. So like regular old your phone charger can return? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I don’t turn it on dad. It’s super super, this why it is super quiet. I’m kidding. And I’ve been sitting here for so it’s got seven functions, which means it’s got certain degrees of level right as far as the intensity, the vibration, and then pattern vibration to it, right. So may do some short bursts and long bursts, then pause and some short bursts and long burst and pause and the intensities are, you know, different. I’m not a mode girl or function girl. But because I get really annoyed because right when I feel like I’m gonna edit pauses, or it’s like when you tell your partner Oh, that feels so good. Keep doing that. And then they stop and they do something else. That’s kind of what it feels like. To me that’s doing intensity is really, really nice. So it’s got a nice scale. And what I love about this, so it’s got an on and off button. And if you hold on, there’s a function button. So it’s really simple. On function, good to go. Nice. But if you hold down the function button, what it will do is it started a low intensity, and then gradually increase the high intensity. So it’s almost no thought involved. It’s cool if I wanted to increase or decrease it. So I absolutely fucking love that. And what’s even better, easy instructions on how to lock the damn thing. So if Yeah, and I love traveling with a couple vibrators, I need them and when I’m traveling because I never have an opportunity to go out on my own when I’m out for work. So I’m going to 100% be masturbating in my hotel room by myself. And there’s nothing more embarrassing than when they pull your fucking suitcase out of the overhead compartment and go Whose is this? And everyone on the plane can hear it vibrating asked me how I know Oh, God, I wish I was there. And it’s and I can’t be like y’all whacking off and I can’t be like that’s my toothbrush cuz I don’t bring me electric Run with me.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:06

Sure, ma’am. That’s your toothbrush. So how do you compare the palm power extreme? And I said that, like, all the keywords are extreme. How do you compare that to the doxy, which is our like most favorite one.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:19

So I love the doxy wand, it’s similar weight, if it were a sword, and I’ve just we’ve watched fortune and fire lately, the balance is different. This is definitely heavier at the head because it’s got a high quality silicone flexible head. And I believe the motor is located right behind it. But it makes the handle nice and light, where the doxy it’s more balanced. You feel like equal weight distribution. Sure. So if I’m masturbating, it’s kind of a toss up between the two. It’s whether I like the standard wand sensation because the docks has got a higher RPM to it. So the vibrations feel different, even on low it’s think about when you’re going down on someone and it’s the same amount of pressure, but the cadence of the tongue flicking changes. I mean, I don’t know if really, as far as physics goes, that’s the best analogy. But that’s all I got right now. The docs is so wonderful. The head is not as flexible on the doxy. This has a little more play to it. But it still has stability. So it’s still firm enough to keep in place. I’ve had vibrators where the head just totally flexes backward. And you have to like write it like a bowl, just to kind of keep it in place if you’re you know, hitting the right spots.


Mickey Gordon  1:04:35

So for straight masturbation. Would you still go with the doxy because of its build quality battery life


Mallory Gordon  1:04:41

sucks is still gonna be one of my favorites, hands down. And I actually think it’s essentially replaced my Hitachi because and I love the Dachi It’s great. It’s just so fucking big. Yes. And then I look at like, like I’m an average size woman. I’m only five five. I say only but that’s another tall For short, I’m right in the middle. But like I think of smaller women with smaller hands trying to use a Hitachi and that’s got to be extremely cumbersome holding times Unless, you know, they’re like, you know, super built and have really strong risks. And, you know, I don’t know like, I’m all about more comfort. I feel like that episode of Grayson, Frankie I can’t even think of it. It’s a Netflix show, I watched with Lily Tomlin and Jane Fonda. And they created this vibrator for old lady older ladies because they have issues with like carpal tunnel and arthritis and everything. And I’m kind of, I’m getting to a point where comfort is, is it important, just as important as quality as well. And that’s why I love the doxy I really like this I actually have only played with myself. So I’m looking forward to a session tonight to see how it does under pressure. So more to come, folks. Yeah, see what I did there. But as a masturbation toy, this is absolutely fantastic. And I would, it’s not so big that I wouldn’t travel with it. I’ve never traveled with my Hitachi even the rechargeable one because it is fairly large and I’m carry on only if I can get away with a girl and this won’t impede that. And it’s got to travel. And it’s got a travel lock which is a big deal. It’s a huge deal. I hate being embarrassed


Mickey Gordon  1:06:18

sorry captain. That’s just my vibrate Yeah, well there you go folks. That is the pomp our extreme that is a toy that is available on casual toys.com you can check it out in our brand new fancy ass search engine. The upper left hand corner if you click search you can even spell that shit wrong. It will bring up the right toy for you at the right time and look for any Yeah, what I love that new search engine Yeah, to use it.


Mallory Gordon  1:06:40

And I’ll tell you what, like the the doxy retails for what $220 Exactly. So it’s a it’s a pretty high end toy. This is half that 103 50 Yes Have that cost and if you reach out or use our ambassador or affiliate links codes, save some cash on it too. So this is so high quality item at a lesser cost. Sure.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:01

I think it’s a great thing. And make sure to check out those ambassadors of ours for casual toys. There’s ambassadors are alleycat and honey spoon in the baby pineapple at twitter. Yeah, you can find them on Twitter. So harass them those ladies have done a great job for us out there just honestly answering questions for you guys. That’s why they’re ambassadors. Yeah, they do a lot with our laundry lines a lot. And we have a lot of kisses back in stock. Oh yeah, lots of kicks. These are back in stock. So that’s kind of a big deal. And also we carry Levin’s now.


Mallory Gordon  1:07:29

Those are so correct me if I’m wrong. Levin’s is one of those Apotex toys that we’ve seen on like only fan sites and like chatterbait and stuff like that we got some pink sticking out of the posi elevens I have a little man in the boat that’s very very pink.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:45

Well that’s that’s loving. But yeah, no Levin’s is she’s right. That’s the chatterbait all the rage because people can control it remotely. And so all the elevens app actually lets you connect to sites like chatterbait Pornhub I think has a plugin for it where you can actually okay you know that connect with your listeners your followers so if you are a creator out there Levin’s make some great products and we carry them all in casual toys.com now that’s awesome. I’m pretty excited about it. You want to tell everybody how to how to find us we can get out of this long you know, you can make it a short one because we’ve only been here about 10 minutes for Toy Box


Mallory Gordon  1:08:19

guys, we fucking missed you. Thanks for hanging in there with us. We’re gonna get you know, get back up to speed here and hold Mickey to his word. We’re casual swinger everywhere. Please feel free to shoot us a note if you have any questions or comments podcasts at casual swinger Comm. You’d find us on social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube or on the dating sites. W nation Cassidy SLS in Assisi.


Mickey Gordon  1:08:39

She’s gotten better at it as the episode has gone along. Join us next time, folks, when we’re going to bring our friends the monogamous marriage. You’re going to join us for the next episode. As we wrap up season three. You’ve been listening to the swinger

Hearing impaired? This podcast is transcribed for your convenience.

Edit Content


Home is where the heart is (S03E01)

Thu, 9/2 10:04AM • 1:36:14


jamaica, hedonism, resort, protocols, people, airport, guests, sanitize, swinger, bus, talk, hito, interview, great, big, travel, staff, place, employees, mask


Mickey Gordon, Mallory Gordon


Mallory Gordon  00:02

You’re listening to the casual swinger podcast as your hosts, we need to warn you that the material you’re about to hear may be sexual or explicit in nature. This podcast is intended for an adult audience. Now we don’t expect you to act like adults. What’s the fun in that?


Mickey Gordon  00:16

We’re a married couple living in Florida with over 13 years of experience in the lifestyle and we take almost nothing seriously. Casual swingers a variety show meaning we’ll cover everything from music to events, travel, and even the occasional hilarious screw up. Our show is about entertainment. We’re not licensed professionals had anything and our stories, commentary and guidance should not be confused with the opinions of a licensed professional.


Mallory Gordon  00:41

Now that you know, lipstick those pants off and get comfy. Welcome, everybody to season three episode one of casual swinger. I’m your co host, Mallory,


Mickey Gordon  00:56



Mallory Gordon  00:57

And again, we’ve missed you guys. It’s been a It’s been a long time.


Mickey Gordon  01:01

Third time’s a charm, right? season three.


Mallory Gordon  01:03

Yes, yes. long overdue. It’s been a roller coaster right? Just like everyone else out there dealing with the the state of the environment now. So


Mickey Gordon  01:13

I kind of feel like it like the season break came at a good time. Because, you know, we were kind of, like, how do we talk about things and


Mallory Gordon  01:20

right, because we want to bring value to the conversation. And you know, me personally, I was in limbo there for a little bit a little intimidated focusing on working kids and dogs and family. You know, so,


Mickey Gordon  01:30

yeah, but finally, I think we’ve beaten the kids as much as we can beat our kids. And now we have to


Mallory Gordon  01:35

quit saying that because someone’s gonna call CPS.


Mickey Gordon  01:38

We can beat him. It’s fine.


Mallory Gordon  01:39

Yeah, okay, that’s just assault and battery. No big deal. Simple assault. Yeah. Anyway, um, so but a lot has happened since last time, we sat down and recorded and put out an episode for our listeners. So I’d like to talk about that a little bit today.


Mickey Gordon  01:52

Yeah, I kind of had a big thing recently


Mallory Gordon  01:56

was a really big thing. Um, right. At the end of June, you were invited out to see some of the changes of hedonism to before opening. So maybe like, a soft opening, I guess is what you’d call it.


Mickey Gordon  02:08

Yeah. Well, it wasn’t even a soft, they were closed, right? I mean, it was just a week after people were allowed back in the country. And Harry reached out and offered me the opportunity to come down and see everything they did. And to be honest, because he’s a great guy. He didn’t even ask me to cover it for the show, or for the magazine that I wrote the article for. He just invited me down to see it because he was excited and proud.


Mallory Gordon  02:30

Yeah, yeah. And we’re gonna get into an interview with you here shortly, which is I’m really excited about and talk about your experience there. And then you had recorded an interview with Harry, over there.


Mickey Gordon  02:42

Yeah, I sat down with Harry. And then I also sat down with Tricia, and who was the director of sales and marketing and operations for some holiday, which is one of the tour operators that takes people back and forth between the airport and to Hito.


Mallory Gordon  02:54

Yeah, I want to say that the biggest


Mickey Gordon  02:56

they are, they’re the biggest, by far, that’s not even close.


Mallory Gordon  02:59

So again, very excited about that. So we’ll talk a little bit about your experience. Do you want to just kind of like run over what we’re thinking for season three for our listeners before we jump into there?


Mickey Gordon  03:10

Yeah, well, I mean, it season three. I mean, it’s gonna start off interesting, right? Because everything with with COVID still has everybody kind of up in the air. And of course, Florida is on fire with COVID right now.


Mallory Gordon  03:20

Yeah. Go Florida.


Mickey Gordon  03:21

Yeah, go Florida. But anybody out there that’s worried about us? Don’t worry about us too much. without going too much into it. We’re testing 45,000 people a day down here. Is it scary? Or people getting overwhelmed? Sure. Is it real? Sure. But we’re okay. It’s been we’ve been distancing. Yeah, we’ve been our mass.


Mallory Gordon  03:38

Yeah, we’ve been really safe. So and we’re taking precautions, you know, where we have a family to think and worry about as well.


Mickey Gordon  03:44

We do now. So that means we haven’t been out playing but if we hadn’t been up now, what are we gonna do in season three?


Mallory Gordon  03:50

Right. I know. I know. So. I think a lot of that’s to be decided. I think we have some, some soft goals. For season three, we want to we want to provide a high quality show for our listeners, we want to have you know, entertainment, you know, at its finest for us, at least, which includes a lot of humor.


Mickey Gordon  04:08

Yeah, that’s true. And you guys have probably noticed, our our lead in is new audio new disclaimer. And we’re really trying to kind of jazz up the show a little bit for you guys. And I think so in season three, we’re going to be looking for some interviews that matter some stuff that will really you can sink your teeth into. We’re going to have some more fun with music. We’re gonna have some more fun with travel, we are going to be traveling a little bit and we’re going to be talking about travel in the new world right and how things are


Mallory Gordon  04:33

Yes. Which is a little scary for me. You know, closet germaphobe Hello Nice to me


Mickey Gordon  04:38

and well and that’s just it if you meet a new couple Now, how do you have that covered? It used to be Are you safe? You know who have you been fucking and now it’s who have you been within six feet of without your friend did you fuck up? Oh man, and by the way, it’s fine. I’m not wearing a mask but I am wearing a condom so we can still hang out anyway Hoping that, you know, my my goals for this season though we had goals for season two, we had goals for 2020 that we missed. So I really want to get into 2021 and do some of the things we meant to do some of the travel we meant to do the event in Nashville that got all fucked up by COVID. I’d


Mallory Gordon  05:16

love to see the phone parties cancelled. Um, I think not a Nolan’s got move.


Mickey Gordon  05:22

Yeah, well, everything’s been bombed. And yeah, you still have p cap in October right now?


Mallory Gordon  05:28

Yes. Oh, my gosh, please just don’t get Yeah, please give us a peek at please, please, please


Mickey Gordon  05:34

let there be a vaccine. So peak app can happen. But, you know, I think it’s a little bit of everything. And I think what people need to know is we’re gonna make this show, and we’re gonna make the best show we can make for them, we’re going to do it to the best of our ability and have as much fun as we can with it. But still be respectful of people that either have gotten sick, or are having troubles have lost their jobs, there’s going to be a lot of that sort of thing going on, especially as this wave of the virus goes on. And we’re gonna be sensitive to that as we create the show.


Mallory Gordon  06:01

Absolutely. I think that factored into the space in between our last episode of the indices into and this one is because it just felt right. We are not out there doing anything. Nothing new is really happening in our lives. But also there’s a lot of things going on. And we’re fortunate enough not to have a direct influence. We’re still working, we’re still healthy. But there’s a lot of people that aren’t. So it just felt a little inappropriate.


Mickey Gordon  06:26

Yeah. And a lot of the episodes that we had in the can because we had a bunch we had done were episodes about people traveling to Jamaica and partying and having the time of their lives. Like how much of it like, biggest shitheads we have to be that would be to put that out. Well, people are suffering some


Mallory Gordon  06:41

really core salt in the wound.


Mickey Gordon  06:42

Yeah, so we shelved those episodes for you guys. At some point, we’ll release them. We’ll let you guys have them. But it wasn’t the time it wasn’t well, people are suffering while businesses are suffering when people are sick. I mean, hell, Mike Ramos from ASN magazine came down with COVID Yeah, just a couple weeks ago, and I hear he was recovering which we’re all really grateful for we are we’re very grateful for it. But man, I mean, that’s that hits close to home. He and I have lunch, like once a month. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  07:06

I know. I know. But I’m glad he’s doing better. And we wish them the best.


Mickey Gordon  07:10

Yeah, very much so. So yeah, that’s what’s coming in season three. I think it’s more casual swinger more us we’re gonna try and have some more fun too. If you caught our last episode of season two. I was with Damon mullard. He was a comedian. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  07:23

he was a traveling. Yeah, we had a good time with that guy.


Mickey Gordon  07:26

He threw us a shout out on his his YouTube show which we were


Mallory Gordon  07:29

raw. And he’s sweet.


Mickey Gordon  07:31

Yeah, he’s pretty good, dude. I thought he was cute, but


Mallory Gordon  07:33

he was adorable. Alright, so I’m gonna hijack this, do it. So the table’s turned? Alright. I’m asking the questions. And you’re providing the answers, which is usually not the dynamic You and I have together. But


Mickey Gordon  07:47

I’m the journalist here. What else?


Mallory Gordon  07:48

All right. So let me start with you taking this trip down to Jamaica. I’m, I’m really glad very glad you did this. I mean, I had a lot of reservations, I was a little nervous, especially with not just your concern for safety, right, because you’re my person, I care very much about you. But just the ever changing, you know, requirements and rules and regulations that were happening, you’re leaving the country? How did I know that you’d be able to make it back safely? So you did. Everything went? Well, from what you’ve told me? And I’m really glad. But I’m also glad you went down there to experience it and have time with everyone there. Because I think he brought a few things back with you that were very, very valuable at a at a personal level.


Mickey Gordon  08:32

No, thank you. I think so too. And I tell you, I think what I was more worried about going to 1d because I was going to Hito even though it was closed anymore. I wasn’t staying Hito that’s the first time since you and I’ve been together that I went anywhere near Hito alone, and I’m so nervous. But there was no one there. So it was very weird.


Mallory Gordon  08:53

I had to have been strange. And thank you for answering that question before asked.


Mickey Gordon  08:57

Oh, sir. It was just a surreal, it was just it was very, it was like, but then I was afraid you’re gonna cut my balls off. Like,


Mallory Gordon  09:03

what? That’s insane. That would never happen. No, um, it is home and it is a little strange. But I knew it’s not the same environment cuz no one was there. Yeah. Right. It was very strange. So tell me why it was important to you to go down there in the first place. Well, why would you even risk it or, or go because it was, what two weeks notice? Yeah. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  09:26

It was barely it was it was barely two weeks notice. And so first things first. You know, we have a lot of people that have traveled with us to hedonism over the years. We have a lot of people that listen to this show. as ambassadors for hedonism, I wouldn’t consider us experts on on anything we say that in the lead in, but what I would consider us is voluntary ambassadors for hedonism. And they don’t pay us and everybody thinks they do or says they do is fully shit. They don’t nobody pays us now Matter of fact, we don’t take money from anybody.


Mallory Gordon  09:57

Now this is a very expensive hobby.


Mickey Gordon  10:00

You want to be a millionaire start podcast as a billionaire. But you know, it’s, we don’t, the only money we get is if you buy a sex toy from us on casual toys.com. But why did I do it, I did it for everybody that goes to Jamaica with us and thinks of those people, as friends that thinks of that places home and thinks of some of these people as their extended family, they are suffering in a massive way in that country. 35% of their global GDP comes from travel and tourism. And almost all of those people went away 70 to 80% of their tourists are Americans. And none of them we’re coming to the country starting March 21. So I had an opportunity to go first. And if something bad was gonna happen, it was going to happen to me, but it wasn’t going to happen to the hundreds or 1000s of people that have traveled to Jamaica with us over the last 14 years. And I wanted to go and say, hey, I’ve been personally, and this is what happened. And this is what was good. This is what was bad. This is what was weird. And I was able to do that I was able to be one of the first people there and look around and get see the faces of home and the people that we care about down there and tell them we will be back and we’ll bring our friends with us.


Mallory Gordon  11:11

So speaking of seeing friends and people we know, you know, there’s a lot of people that for me, they’re like family, literally every time I go there, it’s the welcome home is is literal. In that sense, I am absolutely home, that place has changed my life. And there’s so many people I love and care about that work there. You did a video a welcome home video with those guys. And you’re showing me the clips before you compiled it to a full video and posted on YouTube. I had tears in my eyes. And the video came out wonderful. So anyone who’s gone to Hito or wants to get a feel of what the staff is like there, I encourage you to go to our YouTube channel and watch it because it’s just it’s so heartwarming and the ECS at the end, Boston amou was epic. And I’m not surprised


Mickey Gordon  11:57

I put a link to that video in our if you go to casual Springer calm and go to our blogs where you can see all these podcasts every issue every episode we’ve ever done. But also the article that I wrote for ASN magazine is in there. And at the bottom of that article, is that video.


Mallory Gordon  12:11

Yeah. And can they also see the video updates that you did while you were there on going over the changes to the property and interviewing staff?


Mickey Gordon  12:18

I posted some of them, but I’m gonna put links to all of those in the show notes for this episode.


Mallory Gordon  12:22

Great, perfect, because those were really valuable at the time. And granted, some things have changed, right? Because as of July 1, some of the requirements changed. And it’s really important to stay up to date, right, because it is a very fluid situation that’s happening. And so far, we’ve been getting positive reports for people who have left since July first and have been or are currently on property.


Mickey Gordon  12:44

Yeah, it’s changed a lot since July 1. So since July 1, one of the most important things that changed is anybody coming from New York, Texas, or Florida, or Arizona was considered very high risk and anywhere and very high risk had to have a current COVID test within the last seven days before you traveled right on now that did create, you know, obviously some consternation for some people. But what most people didn’t realize is that everybody coming from anywhere else could be tested, but generally wasn’t most of our friends that have been down there in the last few days said that they just breeze right through the airport. 30 minutes, they’re done.


Mallory Gordon  13:15

Yeah, depending on where they come from. It could be like a random selection, like TSA


Mickey Gordon  13:18

very much sounds very random. And of course, everybody still gets screened, they talk to you and you either get a T or EQ on a little piece of paper, the T says go get a test and they give you a COVID test just outside the airport. ACU just says quarantine in place for 14 days. I mean, you can’t leave your resort, but who the fuck wants to leave Hito anyway,


Mallory Gordon  13:35

yeah, but that doesn’t necessarily mean because a lot of people when you came back had questions about like, well, I’m only saying seven days, or I want to only go for seven days, but they’re saying I have to quarantine for 14. What does that mean? It means just don’t leave your resort for your seven days and then turn around and leave as long as the only thing you’re doing is leaving the country? That’s fine. There you go. So you’re not required to stay an additional week on top of because they they felt like that was the minimum? No, but they they had to stay in country. Now. I wouldn’t be sad about staying two weeks in Jamaica.


Mickey Gordon  14:00

But oh no, but you wouldn’t be sad if you did become symptomatic while you’re there. Because if your resort does not have a quarantine area, then you would be remanded to the Ministry of Health and you’d be taken somewhere else. But if your resort does, like Hito does he do as a quarantine area? There’s a set of rooms that are reserved for quarantine for anybody that does become symptomatic. And they’re just taken to those rooms to ride out the rest of their quarantine.


Mallory Gordon  14:23

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s really smart on their part to do that. So something I want to ask you is the impression that you have the process that you go through to when from was it different than what you had read up on? And how did you feel about it? Did you feel like it was super invasive? Did you? Did you felt like it took too long? Give me your thoughts on that.


Mickey Gordon  14:44

I would see a little bit different than what I expected. And you know, visit Jamaica calm is the website that you go to. It’s the website you go to to get your Travel Authorization. It’s a website that you update your COVID test if you are traveling from one of the high risk states and they had a pretty Good description of what you were going to go through that it was pretty positive, right? It just basically all led to enjoy your time in Jamaica. But when I got there, it was serious, right? I mean, there were guys in fatigues from the Ministry of Health, they weren’t carrying guns or anything. I mean, they were just guys in fatigues. And there were a lot of people in full PP and provide for pee pee, I mean, gloves, gowns, masks, and then face shields as well. So it was a little scary to see this image. Because normally, when you step off the plane in Jamaica, it’s hugs and smiles and welcome home. And just all this excitement, even the customs agents are usually in a pretty good mood.


Mallory Gordon  15:37

That’s true. You flirt with them, which I don’t think it’s acceptable, but really flirt back. But


Mickey Gordon  15:41

they know it. This was different in that regard. It was kind of something out of movies, you know, that sort of thing. And, and everyone was fairly serious, there was definitely no joking around. But once you get past those first stages, you can see that Jamaican people are smiling with their eyes, it’s the best thing they can do. They’re doing everything they can to show you that hospitality they’re famous for, even though you can’t see their face.


Mallory Gordon  16:07

That’s good information to have. And, you know, I’m hoping we have a few friends that are actually still down there right now. So as we get updated, you know, maybe we can advise our listeners with any changes that are ongoing.


Mickey Gordon  16:18

I think we keep going. Yeah, I think we keep it coming. It’s moving we can do is just because it is a fluid situation. things do change all the time.


Mallory Gordon  16:25

So say we book our trip, right? And let’s say we’re going to the end of the month. Something to keep in mind is like you said we get there, there’s a budget, what go home smiles, hugs. How is the experience change for gas interacting with staff members that they know and love? Like? Can I still go up and give them a hug or high five?


Mickey Gordon  16:45

Yeah, so that has definitely changed. By and large, hugs are gone. It’s it’s big smiles, maybe some knuckles, some people are throwing a little elbow, you know, whatever it takes, particularly when you’re out and about in public. The protocols by the government are no contact. And these Keep in mind, there’s a lot of people that were out of work for a long time. And while hedonism took care of its full time employees, over 260 people receive 90% of their full time pay during this pandemic, and most of that came out of hedonism is pocket. Yeah. So it was it was very difficult for the resort to continue keeping these employees. But it’s so important in the conversations that I had with some holiday the conversations I had with Moby and VIP, the conversations I had with, you know, Brandon, who was the catamaran tour operations manager, everybody I talked to talked about how important it was to keep their valuable employees, the people, they train the people that they grown with and become family, make sure that they kept them. So most of these folks that you know, most of these businesses that you know, have kept a lot of their key employees by being good to them during this time.


Mallory Gordon  17:54

That’s amazing. That that’s probably one of the most positive things on that I heard you talk about when you came home,


Mickey Gordon  18:01

it was very felt. And for me, I don’t want to go down there and give one of them a hug and cause them to lose their job or housing.


Mallory Gordon  18:07

Now, but it is it is definitely going to be a change in culture or behavior. It does. It does.


Mickey Gordon  18:15

Because I love these people. I want to hug them. Absolutely,


Mallory Gordon  18:17

absolutely. I do too. And maybe someday we’ll get back there.


Mickey Gordon  18:20

Yeah, and I’m not gonna lie, right. As soon as I get off the plane, our friend Lindley grant is he came right up and you know, it was it was handshake and a quick hug, and he can do that right? Ah, but he said, but your family and I can hug my family. He promised he wouldn’t hug anybody else.


Mallory Gordon  18:37

I love it. And he took such good care of you again, he’s he’s one of the people I think of when I, when we talk about family down there. He’s amazing. So moving on. So we talked about, you know, a little bit about behavior a little bit about how the protocols have changed in the airport, and none of itself. Do you think that these changes not only in the travel to and from but on the resort? Do you think they’re gonna have a negative impact on the experience as a guest? Because you talked about like they had markers and the floor is some of the dining options and capacities have changed. What How do you feel about that? Well, I


Mickey Gordon  19:14

think it’s definitely different, right? I think what you see is different. I think that in the dining room, for example, you can’t go up and get your food from the buffet anymore. You don’t serve yourself, someone else serves you tell them what you want, and they put it on your plate. I think that’s different. I think the signs on the floor that say social distance, you know, and give you an idea of where to stand if someone else’s standing on one are very handy. But at the same time, common sense rules the day especially he always has right. Take care of yourself, right? I mean, if you’re walking around, it’s three o’clock in the morning as a single woman half naked. That even Hito is safe as it is with all the security and everything else. It’s not necessarily the best idea, right? It’s fair enough. Even in the safest place in the world. It’s not the best idea. And it’s not the best idea to do things that we know with all the data we’ve gathered aren’t necessarily a great idea like walking up and just straight up hugging somebody you don’t know. And so is Hito different. Yeah, the staff are wearing masks. So you have to look them in the eye to make sure they’re smiling at you. Yeah, there’s a lot of signs. There’s hand sanitizing stations and every every time you pass from one area to another, there’s a place to sanitize your hands. But in the end, is it still here? Oh, hell yes, it is. It’s it’s still beautiful beaches, it’s still amazing service. It’s still more amenities than any resort in the Caribbean offers at no cost at that top shelf liquor.


Mallory Gordon  20:35

That’s true, cuz we talked about the value early on and one of our, I think season one about the value that Hito brings to the table because the it’s legitimately all inclusive with the exception of like, spa and espresso and like the high end wine stuff, that wine bar that they have there. So like you were telling me like watersports still ago, yes. Right.


Mickey Gordon  20:57

You got social distancing the crew,


Mallory Gordon  20:58

right you’re under the ocean in the mouthwash ocean underwater, and they they’ve been sanitizing. If you’re using the mouthpieces and the tanks, they sanitize all that equipment anyways. So you can you can’t get better at social distancing than that.


Mickey Gordon  21:11

It’s just so intriguing to see is the number of people they have on the boat, right?


Mallory Gordon  21:15

Right, the capacities are going to change so you can still snorkel you can still paddle boat, you can still take out what are the other things they have there.


Mickey Gordon  21:21

They have sail boats and catamarans and they have kayaks


Mallory Gordon  21:25

that are DJ, I don’t have a lot to say his name. Yeah, remember how like he almost ended up in Cuba,


Mickey Gordon  21:31

they wrecked a fucking catamaran.


Mallory Gordon  21:35

Again, you cannot socially distance better than that. So that’s great. You’re also telling me that like the the disco and the piano bar was to be open, but also the capacities of change. And the spa will be open with some changes to protect? on contact, right?


Mickey Gordon  21:51

Yes, so the spy is definitely open, which is great, the tantric Lounge is open, or the Tantra palace rather, it’s just they’re gonna be wearing masks and gloves. So it’s a little bit different, especially when it comes to tantric. You don’t feel their skin necessarily against yours with their hands, which is a big part of the energy exchange that occurs in the tantric palace. But I think they’re they’ve got it under control. And I can’t wait till November to go see Carmen and find out how she’s doing.


Mallory Gordon  22:17

I know you love Carmen.


Mickey Gordon  22:19

I got a little crush on her. I’m not


Mallory Gordon  22:21

I love them all candy, Rebecca, they’re


Mickey Gordon  22:23

amazing candies. Delicious, too. But I’m Carmen’s boy, I can’t.


Mallory Gordon  22:29

So do you have any advice? I mean, every country in the Caribbean is going to be a little bit different, but specific to Jamaica, how if someone’s thinking about planning a trip, you said, the website is visit? jamaica.com? Yes,


Mickey Gordon  22:41

it’s visit jamaica.com. And that’s where you’re gonna find most of the new data to see if something changes, maybe they add a state to the high risk states or take one off. That’s where you’re gonna find that information. What I would tell people is stay abreast, right because things change if you make travel plans for November right now, by November, things are going to be different. So just take a breath, and look forward to your vacation because you’re going to be safe, right? When you leave here, you’re going to wear your mask in the airport, you’re going to wear it on the plane and wear it properly. You’re gonna wear it properly. Unlike


Mallory Gordon  23:14

a lot of the people that I saw on the airport, please wear it properly, folks and stop touching it.


Mickey Gordon  23:19

Yeah, right. So you’re going to do that, right, you’re going to sanitize your hands, you’re going to socially distance as best you can. You’re going to get there and you’re going to sanitize your hands like 19 times in the fucking airport. That was one of the weird things like you sanitize your hands every time you walk 10 feet, but you go all those things, bring lotion with you for your hands, and Lysol. But you’re going to do all that stuff. And then you’re going to get there and you’re going to remember why you went to all that trouble, because you’re gonna get to Hito. And it’s still Hito. And they’re excited to have you ensure they’re taking precautions, and they’re taking precautions. By the way, the dining room itself, the tables are socially distanced, they’re limiting the number of people that consider the table. The restaurants have occupancy limits on them. Right, they have the beach chairs, six feet apart on the nude beach. So there’s a lot of ways that the resort has done their part. But they also leave you the choice. When you get to the nude pole, you get to the nude beach, you meet somebody that you’ve known for years, you see somebody you’ve known for years, you get to make that decision for yourself, if you want to break social distancing and get together or not. But if you do, no one’s gonna give you a hard time about it. It’s still Hito


Mallory Gordon  24:24

That’s beautiful. Um, my last question for you because I think like I could, I could interview all day long because this is kind of fun.


Mickey Gordon  24:31

There’s a lot to say. There is this was a really big, interesting trip for me. It really was.


Mallory Gordon  24:37

So this one may hit you in the fields a little bit. What was the most impactful conversation you had while you were there? Yeah. What’s the one that stuck with you the most?


Mickey Gordon  24:50

Edward and his that he was a guy working on this. He’s working at sandals actually, when I was walking down the beach He was, uh, I interviewed a lot of locals while I was there.


Mallory Gordon  25:02

Yeah. Like our shell boy.


Mickey Gordon  25:04

Yeah, I interviewed shell boy and interviewed Lindley and lots of locals. But I also talked to truck drivers and construction workers and, and other people. And so his daughter died. His daughter died, she went into diabetic shock. And they couldn’t get her in in time, because of all the COVID protocols and things. She She passed away before they could get her care. That was really, really rough. That’s,


Mallory Gordon  25:32

I’m sorry. That’s not the one I was thinking of. But now that you said that, um, yeah, that’s Yeah, that’s definitely one that sticks. And I’m very sorry for Edward and his family. And that’s super tragic. And, you know, it makes you wonder, you know, how, unfortunately, that came to be?


Mickey Gordon  25:51

Yeah, it was rough. But I had a lot of them that were emotionally impactful for me. I talked to some of the contract employees, they couldn’t come see me on the resort. But we talked over WhatsApp and whatnot, right. And the


Mallory Gordon  26:03

contractor employees are there. They’re contracted to work for the resort, but they’re not technically full time employees getting paid. So they’re not getting paid, but they have a job. When they’re open and getting closer to capacity. They do. They’re guaranteed a job.


Mickey Gordon  26:18

So September is when they all get to come back to work. Right.


Mallory Gordon  26:20

And there’s like you said, there’s employees, there’s been a fund for those contractors raid, to help make sure they have they have food and the necessities that they need, since they have not been able to go to work every day.


Mickey Gordon  26:32

That’s correct. And that was that was set up. In part, the gentleman by the name of Eric and of course, Joe canino. And his group and Howard Howard Heron, Stan, those guys raised $50,000. for food for these contract employees. They couldn’t work and Harry’s


Mallory Gordon  26:47



Mickey Gordon  26:49

Well, interestingly enough, so Harry, this is the kind of guy he is. He’s committed that when that money in that food run out, he will keep it going until they can come back to work. So they’re going to eat, because Harry says so. Yeah. And I found that you know, the whole thing was emotional for me. If, you know, I was emotional every day you saw me. I know. I called you I videoed you every single day. And it was all it was emotional for me across the board. Because I saw people. It was so resilient and so positive. I mean, when I talked to Paulette, and I said, you know, was this hard for you? She said, Yes, she goes, it was hard. But she said, I have to give thanks. I’m still here. And I have to be positive and, and I’m only working three days a week right now. But that’s better than nothing that I’m just I just have to stay positive because my family will be home soon. And that’s that conversation happened so many times over the course I was there for days. And I had that conversation. Time after time after time after time. And you know, the resort was closed. They didn’t have to be nice to me.


Mallory Gordon  27:52

Now. They can tell you to go pee feet. Leave me alone.


Mickey Gordon  27:55

Yeah, nobody had to be there was a blue haired weirdo. They love the hair. He


Mallory Gordon  28:01

did love your blue hair. I got what’s that messages from like three people about your hair? It was hilarious.


Mickey Gordon  28:08

Yeah, for those of you that don’t know my hair is blue is shit.


Mallory Gordon  28:11

I’ve been calling I’m big Papa Smurf. Just because I think it’s cute. But anyway, so fun fact, by the way, you get you know, a little upset and like there were, you know, any waterworks on your end or anything, but I could tell you were you were hit pretty hard by some of the conversations you’re having. And I was like, it’s they’re, they’re grateful you’re doing a wonderful job and I’d close my laptop and then I’d fucking cry.


Mickey Gordon  28:35

You were definitely my rock as some of the conversations were really tough, especially when I was talking to people that maybe weren’t employed like this forever free. He’s a contractor. He’s in construction. And he specifically and exclusively works for resorts and the work was gone. He said all he wanted to do was work. Yeah, that’s it. I just want to work so I can support my family and I want to be able to take my children to the doctor because I don’t want to lose another child.


Mallory Gordon  29:00

God that’s tough.


Mickey Gordon  29:01

And I was I mean I just about died in front of them.


Mallory Gordon  29:05

No pun intended, obviously but hey, that’s


Mickey Gordon  29:07

the serious fucking moment for casual swinger for all of season three


Mallory Gordon  29:10

Yes guys. So back to the funny stuff now um so you would you do it again, as hard as it was and as interesting it was or as taxing as some of the moments could have been would you do it all over again if you could?


Mickey Gordon  29:24

In a fucking heartbeat? Yeah, yeah. And a new york minute. I do it again. Are


Mallory Gordon  29:28

you ready to go back in November? I am Yeah, man. Yeah, man.


Mickey Gordon  29:30

I’m ready to see our friends. I’m ready to welcome all the rascals home right I’m ready to make sure that they have the best and vacation of their lives because they have suffered. I mean, every American obviously is going crazy right now the politicizing of everything that’s going on the the back and forth, the left the right the middle. Everyone hates everybody and everybody’s arguing on social media. But when you’re a rascal and when you’re in Hito, all that shit gets left behind. Oh, thank goodness. Yeah. And they just get to be their best And I want to help them do that so bad.


Mallory Gordon  30:04

That’s on my list. I mean, October November for me that’s that’s my light at the end of the tunnel. And even though I have to accept the fact that that’s still fluid and in maybe something will change, hopefully not. Right. That’s what that’s where we’re putting our positive vibes. Right. But I have high hopes for October November for us.


Mickey Gordon  30:22

Yeah, me too. Yeah. But I’m excited that people get to consume this interview from Harry Lang.


Mallory Gordon  30:27

Yes, I love Harry.


Mickey Gordon  30:29

I do too. And you know, he and I did the interview naked in the nude pool.


Mallory Gordon  30:36

should not be surprised that’s and then there’s a follow up the pairs of those, by the way, right?


Mickey Gordon  30:41

There were four nuts in the pool. And by the way, we’re the only fucking four nuts in the pool when we did this interview, because there was nobody in the pool.


Mallory Gordon  30:49

To be in that new pool.


Mickey Gordon  30:50

It was surreal. It was like being in an amusement park alone. I felt like Chucky was gonna jump out and stab me out of the Grotto. That’s a little creepy. It was it was like a horror movie. But they’ve made so many changes in so many updates. You guys gonna hear about him from Harry Lang when we talk here in a minute. And then I followed that up with and I did so many interviews, but I thought this one went well. And this is going to be a huge long episode for us. But this secondary episode, or secondary interview, rather, is with Trisha and who is the Director of Operations for some holiday so it’s kind of a nice little tucked in Hito episode, even though it’s long,


Mallory Gordon  31:23

love it and can I go ahead and release the little spoiler do it. Okay, so along with releasing this episode, today, we’re going to release a bonus episode one week from today that is a compilation of other interviews you did with some of the people you’ve mentioned already. Yes, and we’re going to compile those and release them together in a package as a bonus just because it’s been so long and we have this content and it’s good and we just want to give that to you guys.


Mickey Gordon  31:50

Right and some of the audio is not perfect in it right because I was interviewing using handheld recorder I was walking up to people but we kind of felt like this content we just want you to have it all in here the conversations that we had but these people in Jamaica so you’re gonna get it all between this week and next week, which is just kind of the bonus interview episode which is weird, but we’re gonna do it anyway. So forget it’s our show we do we want


Mallory Gordon  32:11

new season new us. Yes. All


Mickey Gordon  32:13

right. All new days. me with my new manboobs COVID awesome.


Mallory Gordon  32:19

Yeah, I gotta start working out again.


Mickey Gordon  32:20

I take in COVID-19 way too seriously, I got all 19 pounds plus a couple oh geez Lee because these movies. Don’t have boobies. Well Stop it. Why don’t you do us a favor and tell everybody if you can remember how to do it. It’s been so long, where they can find us and we’ll come back with hedonism CEO chairman and owner Harry Lang.


Mallory Gordon  32:40

Alright guys, we’re casual swinger everywhere. That’s podcast at casual swinger.com. If you have questions, you can find us on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube as well as Facebook. We’re on all the dating sites including w eight nation, Cassidy SLS, STC and quiver.


Mickey Gordon  32:57

You did it?


Mallory Gordon  32:58

I did. All right,


Mickey Gordon  32:59

we got a hot second. We’ll be back with CEO Harry Lang. You’ve been listening to casual swinger. Hey, everybody, this is Mickey with casual swinger. And I am here with hedonism. Chairman CEO, President owner, and lifestyler extraordinary Harry Lang, how are you today? Great. Mickey, great to see you here. Again. It is and believe it or not, folks, we’re doing this this interview for the second time because I screwed up. So many props to Harry for being gracious and dealing with my my error. So I apologize for that. No problem. I’m still excited to ask these same questions more or less over and over again. You know, you invited us down to your Villa at the point to come over and tour some of the things that are happening here at hedonism. And right now we’re actually in the nude pool doing this interview, which is the first time I’ve ever done an interview naked in the heat. Oh, cool.



Yeah, that same thing, as I said the same thing for me. This is a first time for everything here. Yeah, right. Yeah. And here by July 1, of course, we will be open here. And we can do stuff all right here in the rooms and everything that we normally do. Yeah, well,


Mickey Gordon  34:20

whatever that whatever that is, whatever your whatever your thing normally is, you know, COVID is struck Ito really hard, but not as hard as it has some other places in the country. So on March 19, they closed the doors to international travels right here in Jamaica. And then March 21 is pretty much the end and you were here at the end. And you were the first guy back in the island. Oh yeah. Tell us how did that go? I mean, how hard was the conversation to have



with your employees was everybody wanted to be here most of the year and from like, January 3 till March 21. Let’s hear I think all but eight days. Really, I just we’re working still on more renovations. Just some more customer service and working at it. Then it was a little break. Yeah. When the airport closes from March 19. And then March 21, we pretty much close here. Yeah, a couple days to get out. June 15, the airport opened again, we don’t open until July 1, but I was probably one of the last fights out and definitely the first flight in this place.


Mickey Gordon  35:20

Well, and I was gonna say, like the captain going down with the ship and being the first one on the ship, but certainly the case, it’s just that you love this place the way you do, right?



Oh, yeah. And the staff has always concerned about the staff. But fortunately, we’re able to pay them 90% of their base pay for the tournament idea, permanent staff. So me bringing in food, we’ve gotten a lot of donations from guests, almost a $50,000 raised, we go out and buy wholesale food, and we give it out in baskets to all our temporary and permanent, which is amazing. And we do that every month. And then I just still continue it for another month or two, just out of my own pocket here to make sure that people get back on their feet. That’s


Mickey Gordon  35:59

absolutely incredible. So a big shout out to Howard and Joe. Joe’s with our favorite Jamaican place, which is a Facebook group that kind of kicked this thing off. Right. Howard did and and Joe jumped in. And then you started matching donations. And yes, you know, there was 50 grand.



Yes, I know. It’s unbelievable how generous our guests and they love our staff to just like family like I do. So yeah, they everyone want to jump in, whether it’s 20 bucks or whatever they


Mickey Gordon  36:22

could give everyone did it is utterly amazing, because you know, there were a lot of people in united states that were out of a job, a lot of people in Canada that, you know, suffered a little bit and a lot of different ways from COVID. And in different varying ways governments did different things for their people in United States. You know, people were given unemployment benefits and an additional $600 a month a 12 $100. You know, I don’t want to call it a bonus, but a 12 $100 stimulus check. And then in Canada, if they lost their job, they were given a couple $1,000 a month what happened to employees here in Jamaica? Did the government do anything for the



people to make a small amount, but really, it was very minor compared to anything like that in the us because we didn’t couldn’t print trillions of dollars here. free money, not No, no free money here. So when they got the 90%, part of the time, we only had to pay 50% because the government’s paying 40. But that ran out pretty quickly. So we’re doing the 90% before and after government program. But for a while the government was doing 40% of base pay. But that’s about it. They didn’t do any, any stimulus for small business or anything


Mickey Gordon  37:25

that makes such a difference. I mean, employees like Paulette, who’s in front of us right now have been here. Nearly 30 years, right? They’ve been here a very long time. And those employees have been taking care of them. I asked her today I said, How did you do during this and she says, well, everyone’s trying to survive but hedonism took great good took great care of me,



there’s a here more and more, I think we did handle it better. We I think we gave them more than any other resort on the island, I’m pretty convinced that now I thought we were at the time, I wasn’t really comparing it to others, I just wanted to do what we thought was right. Even if it’s 90% of base, so it’s still they shared a tip pool before and there’s a tip rule now without people coming in. So they end up getting significantly less than they would have when the place is full. Yeah. Well, hopefully be filled up again in a couple months. And we’ll be back to


Mickey Gordon  38:11

back to back to the party. So let’s talk about that a little bit. You know, obviously COVID has changed everything about how we interact outside of your mask, social distancing. And as I walk around in the tour of the resort that you gave us, I see there’s a lot of signs encouraging people to social distance, giving people placemats on the floor to show where they’re supposed to stand, even if it’s behind a pillar as you showed up the bar. But, you know, it’s it’s interesting to me, that they’re all these things are out there. And then there’s the Hito experience. I mean, I’m looking around and I see all these names and all these boards around this bar. And all these memories that people created, can they still come to Hito and create memories, and still protect themselves as best they can?



Yeah, I said, it won’t be able to come here, we’ll see that we will be back to this normal hido party here. People that want to practice social distancing, see all the tables set up and things like that, but anyone that’s men in us is different areas open up in bars and restaurants. See that, you know, it’s kind of optional, whether socially distance or not. And very few people in the US are wearing masks right when the bar open. So it won’t be any different here. So you get the full Hito experience. The thing is different goes hand sanitizers everywhere, all the tables and chairs and things are sanitized two or three times a day, every time before anyone’s going to sit in it. And so that part, people I think can feel safe and we measure the temperature of everybody coming in when they arrive. And for the staff every day. They get their temperature taken sweet. We’re taking the I think the reasonable steps to try to make it really safe. And this whole parish of Hanover where the grill is located has had only two cases through this whole thing. Right? So this is way safer than any place you’re from in the US or Canada or anywhere in the world.


Mickey Gordon  39:55

Yeah. And as a matter of fact, St. James, where you come into the country That’s where Montego Bay is located. And then Westmoreland that you travel through to get here and then Hanover where hedonism is located. If you put them all together, as of yesterday, there were only 50 cases total between the three parishes, most of them in Montego Bay 36 of them.



Right. So compare that just look down your local city, a local county and even towns that have 5000 people or more cases on that.


Mickey Gordon  40:22

I think there were 36 cases in my house. It’s, there’s there’s a lot so it hasn’t hit Jamaica that hard. But I do see so many people. I mean, looking at Orlando and Paulette right now they’re, they’re wearing their masks. They’re being safe.



Yes, we’re still going to ask staff to wear masks. We want the guest to have to do that if they choose right. And I’m guessing most guests won’t. But the staff, we can ask them to wear them at least till we figure confidence that the peak is over. On the decline,


Mickey Gordon  40:56

even though the resorts not open. I see employees working hard right now to sanitize and clean things even. Even just behind us as we’re walking around. You know, they’re walking around scurrying around cleaning behind us, which is absolutely amazing to see that level of dedication to our personal safety. Do you do I mean, if you had to tell people one thing about why they should feel safe to come back to Hito?



What do you think it would be good probably will be very secure, safe, physically and medically from the disease and things like that. I really think people feel safer here than they would at home. And I’m pretty confident that so come here with a party and the weather and it’s safe. Yeah, but we’re not only just doing all the sanitizing, but we’re cleaning up a lot of things you probably saw when just walking around the property here that put a lot of new roofs on we repaved. The amazing. Yeah. repaved the walkway from the hot tub up to the spa is nice and smooth now on your feet, so you don’t have to wear your foot pass down to the hot tub.


Mickey Gordon  41:56

I was talking about that when we were walking that way earlier. But you know, you mentioned something to me, you said that there’s another benefit to smoothing out that walkway. And it was what the coffee carts



we had the morning boys want to serve coffee down at the new Bar and Grill. And the carts that have that have the coffee is Yeah, and the fruit and the pastries and things on Yeah, someone happens to go to bed late at night, which should be hard to believe in a coffee cart comes by at 630 in the morning here that flap, flap flap flap on the road now, it’s next and smooth and in the luggage carts to come in everything. So it’s it’s made easier for everybody and quieter.


Mickey Gordon  42:33

Now let’s just improve the quality of the resort. So when we talk about other changes, right, you invested half a million dollars and just said fix stuff.



Right and on top of a the sanitation and all the things we’ve done. I said I budgeted $500,000 to just do the improvements that are much easier to do when the resort is closed and back when it fills up again. So retiled all the pools. And I said as the roadway there and we’ve changed around bars, and we’ve just done a lot of things that projects I wanted to do that just never got a chance to where it’d be a lot easier to do now anyway. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  43:10

I mean, well right down to draining, cleaning retitling and refilling this pool that we’re in. I’ve never seen the water in the tile. so vivid in this pool. It’s so amazing.



It is and then I don’t know if you get a chance to walk along the walkways, but we’ve realigned people’s stones and made them really neat. And we’ve redone the landscaping and things like that. It’s bigger proven,


Mickey Gordon  43:33

I took some photos of that. So I was walking down that newly paved pathway yesterday, and all of the stones that people had painted were lining the pathway and then all of the their memory boards were on the trees. It was such a cool walkway. It was it was kind of like a hall of memories for hedonism.



Yes. And I thought yeah, I want people that come back will say wow, not not just this is open and you can worry as soon as I close to the mines to get cobwebs or something No, no, not here. No, we got dissolve freshly painted up. And you’ll see it’s the best has ever looked.


Mickey Gordon  44:03

Let’s talk about some other changes. So you did mention the tiles. The tiles in the pool are astonishing. They’re they’re kind of iridescent. Yeah. And at night, the LED lights just it’s it’s absolutely beautiful up there. But on that Prudential area, you guys have taken down the sliding the waterslide and the frame for the waterslide is gone. And that whole area, the pillars are gone. Everything’s opened up. Are there any plans for that space?



Well, for right now, it’s just going to be a great place to have the parties outside. You know, like the glow party or groups want to set up things that you know big screen or a live band or something up there is a great place just for private dinners or anywhere around you can sit and great view of the ocean and things like that before it was partly blocked by those old structures and things so really just to clean up and overtime. I’m sure we’ll think of some really fun stuff to do there.


Mickey Gordon  44:52

It feels so much bigger, but structurally it’s not but it feels like there’s nothing in the sky so the sky feels bigger. The view of you Feels bigger. Yeah, now that area down below has those new decks they’re putting in



Yeah, we’re putting those decks into the same thing. It might be some small little group concerts or something down there. And I’m sure guests and groups have come up with some really fun stuff to do with,


Mickey Gordon  45:15

my gears are already turning. So I think that’s going to be amazing. So in terms of COVID, let’s talk about the buffet a little bit, because I really want people to get an idea of what they can expect, and also what sort of precautions are being taken by the resort. So the buffet is where everybody eats, if you’re not going to a restaurant, I see that restaurants have reduced seating capacities, and they’re posted on the doors. But what about the buffet what happens at the buffet that’s different than the way it was before.



And so the buffet is not self serve. So until a vaccine or until things really calm down around the world, you just order things from the FE, and we’ll have extra staff that will serve it to your table. So give you a little checklist. So these are the items we have in the buffet, and they’ll come they’ll get it for you. So that keeps people from bunching up at the buffet and whatever.


Mickey Gordon  46:05

I’m always like it was the wrong way around the buffet. Arrows Now touch every orange squeezer squeezing



the staff we doing that and then as you said to each of the restaurants so v tables have a little further apart. So be less seating will just end up when the resort is full, we’ll have more outdoor seating. And we can cover it like with a tan if it’s raining or something but probably around the pool, your main pool, we can set up some tables and chairs around there, which will really be nice and that this eat outdoors like that. And that will give us the additional seating make up for the reduced seating inside the walls.


Mickey Gordon  46:43

This is fairly conveniently timed anyway, right? Because this is not the busy time of year for hido. This isn’t this is kind of lower occupancy time. So this is really going to be a good time to test out the social distancing, right?



Oh, yes, because it normally the resort is not full in August and September anyway. We quite often are in July, we’re losing a nice July month where people are just starting to book and come back. But it won’t be enough to fill it up in July. But yeah, so give us a couple more months to get everything right. So when the season really gets going October and on Wynn resorts normally full, we’ll have plenty of practice and things by then. Well,


Mickey Gordon  47:21

speaking of practice, let’s talk about the entertainment staff. What’s new and different. I mean, you know, I saw Winston yesterday and he looked tired. And I was like dude, but even doing he was practicing.



When he was running, he’s been here on site the whole time. He’s been coming up with new routines and things like that. And it’s it’s really great for someone like him because he’s had to put on a show every night. And now I guess a few months where you can be more good as mine more creative. So people come in, you’ll see some new shows and see what twinsen can do and he has a little time to think about it rather than all the time.


Mickey Gordon  47:56

So let’s talk about checking process. Check it is checking process different I noticed when I walked out yesterday, there were some new signs there’s new sanitization stations, right at the stairs when you come in social distancing. anything different about how people check in or where they’ll be seated or how that process will go and do you think it will take longer,



nothing will take longer but it will be that if a bus empties out and the other 10 or 15 people in that bus, they’re going to have to stand six feet apart the couples will have to stand six feet apart so they’ll be quite lined up outside but it won’t take any longer to check in it’s just that instead of sitting inside on the couch in the line for a little while but I don’t think slowing anything down


Mickey Gordon  48:36

but once you’re in you can make the decision to go ahead and call up if you want yeah yeah then I’m sure that we will be fine if you did some important to some people don’t like how can you be Hito if I have to be six feet away The answer is you can choose not to be but that is your choice it is a personal decision.



It is and if you do choose to be the you’ll see the spacing for the chairs and things that you easily could do that and no one’s gonna stop you from pulling your chair up next others but yeah, right now the initial chairs on the beach are six feet while the two are together you know for a couple and then the other ones like six feet apart but those don’t rule it says you can’t move them around and like to see in the pool a pool party back like normal so that’s if people are not comfortable that they don’t have to come in when the pool is crowded you know there a lot of times like morning like now where it isn’t so people can still do the things they like to before you want to party want to lay on the beach. You’ll see there’s really no difference. And I said uses examples cities have been open for a little while. The restaurants and bars they might have reduced the capacity some but it’s getting back to business as usual there and it will be here too. It’s just gonna take time.


Mickey Gordon  49:43

So other amenities at the resort. Let’s talk about watersports. Well, the scuba boats and the rentals and everything be



operating much the same way. As right now. Though, we’ll be going through some training and it could be a chance to fewer people. Maybe we’ll have to have an extra Diving boat go out maybe if there is we will have to limit the number on the boat, at least initially until governments around the world figure it’s safe to get less than six feet apart. So I’m imagining that there’ll be fewer people in each dive boat, but it just means we’ll offer one or two more per day survey can still go,


Mickey Gordon  50:17

they already sanitize the crap out of the snorkels and the regulator’s so they really don’t need to do anything different, right?



Probably not. It’s pretty bad. leech or whatever thing, but doesn’t say now just saying, sanitizing this all the time, just continuous. But that’s all we got to do. For now. Anyway,


Mickey Gordon  50:33

protect guests and make sure that they’re



enjoying them probably go a little overboard with it. Now just so people feel safe. And then later, we’ll probably learn from the CDC, well, maybe you didn’t really have to do quite all that. But for now, or erring, on the side of doing too much sanitation,


Mickey Gordon  50:46

we’ve seen that already with the CDC that a guideline is put in place, and then people start falling in the actually, you don’t need to do that you need to do this. I’ve seen a lot of that. So let’s talk about personal touch here at Hito. And the personal touch, what I’m talking about is I’m staring at a massage right now, how’s massage and tantric going to work is that going to



that that’ll start up a little bit later, we’ll make sure we get the guidelines right and things before we do it, but the massage places they’re opening and US will probably follow the same things they do there. Okay, so I’m probably guessing that the the suits will have the mask, and I don’t really think to be much of a change, we don’t really have the final guidelines yet on how that works. The touch of massage and class will be fine, because they’re all each couples on different math is already like six feet apart. So we don’t have to make any change there. Ever the personal or couples on the sides. We have to think through how that’s gonna work.


Mickey Gordon  51:37

Absolutely. You know, here on the resort, you know, people this this is world famous, it’s been here a really long time. And I’ve noticed as I was coming through the airport, for example, I mentioned that I was coming to interview you and visit hedonism before they open and it used to be they look at me and go, Oh, you’re going to the zoo, they’d get this kind of scandalous look on their face. And now they look at it with with reverence. Oh, you get to go to Hito. Like they were really excited. something’s changed.



Yeah, it really is more mainstream, partly because of social media and things like that people are out there, pictures and Twitter and everyone talks about so people know it’s not a scary place. before everyone was on the phone and Twitter and Facebook, people would just just hear a story or see something a newspaper could be scary because you don’t know what goes on here and you hear they’re swingers here and stuff like that. But other people, every one of the islands seems like likes Quito and a lot of them would certainly like to work here I can tell that when I go to a different resort or airport and everybody asked me for a job


Mickey Gordon  52:50

How do I get a job there? No episode. Do you tell them what you’re not allowed to touch the guests. So you really don’t want to work here.



You want to come visit? At least want to come visit a night pass. They always want something they don’t Yeah, it is world famous but it’s not scary, like initial thoughts somebody might get Is there a lot of people here that don’t do anything they don’t play with any other guests or don’t even have to get naked if you want to, you know, we got a huge beach here 20 acres, and people getting social distances IV with social distance way before this is why this one is a private place to hang out on the beach. And


Mickey Gordon  53:26

let’s talk about that for a second. Because that’s something I forgot to mention. And we’ve talked about it before. Now hedonism is over 20 acres, and it’s only 288 rooms. There’s more open space and free space than any resort I’ve ever been to in the Caribbean.



That’s right, because we have we actually have the authorization from the government to go to almost 1000 rooms and the property the size. We’re gonna be happy with the 280 have right now. So yeah, there’s plenty of space if people want to have their private time and there are swingers here, maybe that third of the people consider themselves swingers and the third would absolutely not do anything like touch someone else. Another third might be exhibitionist or something like that. Lawyers but so scanning you can make it however erotic or wherever quiet and calm and peaceful you want so known as pressure to do anything. I know. This is some people think well, he swingers gonna be hitting us all the time. But that being the case, because you don’t need to try to convince somebody to join you. Now there are plenty of people who work. Yeah, right. Well,


Mickey Gordon  54:35

so it’s funny. We often read headlines about hedonism in magazines and maybe have written on authorized stories and really haven’t talked to anybody make just take a quote or two out of the press kit. take some pictures out of the press kit and say swingers resort to reopen on July 1. And I think that’s a crock of bullshit. I really do and I don’t like it. I think it’s lazy journalism. We just talked about it in Joe caminos group here not too long ago. So I’d like to know you as a person have invested massively of your personal wealth to keep this place alive and improve it to make it better so there’s something about this place that you love deeply



oh yes I’m all in on this mortgage is up to my eyeballs or higher This is my only business my passion This is like my family my love and the guests that come here and things so I’ll still keep putting every penny into it. I don’t not look for any return on investment I’ve never taken a penny out and well I thought I might this year but now put that off for a few more years. It doesn’t really matter that much.


Mickey Gordon  55:37

Going what where did this passion come from? What is it about this place that made you decide that it was worth investing your life’s work in that he



has a disarray seems like one of the only places where absolutely no judgment I really hate parts of society for cliques or some group thinks they’re better than someone else or you can’t happen at resorts I think to your premium memory you get special treatment VIP something this is not like that. Even though you have rooms that have hot tubs in their view of the ocean, every room is exactly the same size. Nobody’s wearing your wristband. We have Circuit Court judges we have truck drivers are multimillionaires, some guys come in on their private jets to the airport but no one knows who you are. No, no, just naked and talk to everyone else that that’s coming eight years before I bought it. Nobody had an idea I might be able to afford to buy it. Well, Chris, I didn’t either. But it was a quick sale. So yeah, I was surprised.


Mickey Gordon  56:33

My first trip to hedonism was in 2001. And I sat on that beach right over there. And a guy came up and sat down next to me and handed me a Crown Royal bag full of weed. And we talked for a while and we smoked some of it turned out he was a US District Court Judge from Sterling, Virginia. And I was so stupefied. And I’ve met celebrities here, people that I would never have thought I would have met here and they were just like everybody else. They just wanted to relax and be open and fun. They weren’t swinging or anything like that. They were just kind of just getting naked and partying with everybody.



That happens a lot here it is and you end up making a lot of lifetime friends I people like you and I are lifetime friends. And once we’ve met here and you get to talk to a no almost everybody here which is so totally different than if you’re on a cruise ship or another resort to something you don’t get to know everybody like you to talk to your own partner on these places. They’re not people sitting around here reading books. So if we were just talking to people and they and people from all ages, sizes, races, people worried you have to be a supramolecular man I don’t think so. Do not fit the mold. But people say well, I just go to your local target or something like that. That’s that’s kind of proud to get here young and old, heavy. Slim, you get you get you get it all. Black, you get spanking if people love you from Europe, come here in South America. And we’re all just one big melting pot here. I’d say if the whole world was like this, who would never have any wars? No,


Mickey Gordon  58:06

never. If the world was like Hito, everything would be fine. And it was funny. I met a guy here probably three years ago, who didn’t speak a word of English. He was Italian. And he had a great time. He had so much fun and almost no one spoke his language but they got by somehow. It’s probably cuz he had a huge penis, but it was the universal language of huge penis. But



yeah, I really don’t know that people really can get along and laugh and play little games. And you’ll see like spring break reactive, maybe a little bit younger than we are when we get my body reminds me when I get home. Yeah, I grew up here in the in the nude pool and throw a few beach balls around and get a little whipped cream out. Yeah, we can have a lot of fun that just like teenagers, and you don’t really have to worry about whether you speak German or Italian or German


Mickey Gordon  58:55

language above. You know, once not that long ago, we took a walk down to Firemen’s and it was Rachel and my wife Mallory, and a few others. And when we walked down past sandals, which is the resort just down the beach, there were a bunch of people sitting on the beach reading their books. This is important. What’s up? Yep, go right ahead. I’ll pause. So anyway, we’re walking down the beach, and Mallory and Rachel are both wearing thongs, and their assets are hanging out and their boobs are barely covered. And there were a few other rascals with us at the time. And a couple of the guys put their books down and just stared and stared to their wives slap the loving shit out of them. And all the girls turned around as if on cue. Rachel and Mallory go enjoy your book. Turn around and keep walking. It was the best thing ever. It was so funny. And those poor guys the wives drugged them off the beach and they weren’t allowed back until we came back through.



I knew that even resorts like that have people who aren’t curious, you wonder what it’s like and what we can actually recruit people to kind of look like they don’t belong there, right? You’re wearing a little fun. They look like fun and laughing and they’re not reading their books. We’ll go after them. I will want to go on vacation. Yeah, did you want to come over and check out Hito. And it works Other times, and they decided that they will be staying here for now. And you can kind of tell people that don’t fit the book reading. They shouldn’t have been there now.


Mickey Gordon  1:00:28

Well, you remember last November, we did a poll or we did a pool party here. We played a game we call Guitar Hero. And Guitar Hero is where we have everybody play air guitar, but they have to play their dicks instead. And the pool got so loud, that they heard us at sandals. And we had two people, two different couples come here on day passes the next day to see what the hell was going on.



Yep, sounds great. Yeah, because people do get bored. Yeah, I can sit there for a week just reading your book and then going to bed at 9pm. When you see this party going, and you hear it all day and all night. And you’re sitting over there, like come on that?


Mickey Gordon  1:01:01

Well. And I think that is where we’ve gotten to with COVID people are ready to get back into the swing of things. So let’s talk about that a little bit. Because you guys have a really amazing promotional capability here with a movie. Tell me about it. Yeah, this



is a movie that actually, myself and a couple of the people who come here who were actually our producers and directors of movies in general, came up with the idea. Let’s make a movie. You know, romantic comedy, takes place that hedonism that’s really a great line. A Lionsgate picked it up, and it’s going to be released July 3 on line, a pay per view type stuff. And then whenever the big theaters open up lines, he’ll put it on some big screens. That’s a great concept. You know, a very conservative family like church going kind of family. The parents of the bride, the groom’s parents, like Meet the Fockers, you know so hot smoking, whatever. But anyway, just to families get married, they get on a plane to head to a Cayman Islands for destination wedding. When it gets real rough, they get diverted to Jamaica, pour them and then so they end up at Jamaican all the hotels seem booked but this Rasta man come I know one place that they can go and we’ll take it whatever and then say I’ll get in the bus they pull it in it’s hedonism to he got this. And then you don’t even have to make up stuff after that. It’s just stuff that would really happen here. You know that? The other jealousy is excitement and people trying things for the first time and yeah, it’s amazing. I know I get the whole story. I’m the mother of bride has a little bit of a good time with a guy in the massage. And then some guys are supposed to be on the wild side, you end up getting conservative and though I can’t do that, so But I mean, it’s it’s amazing. And we don’t need an Winston or hit entertainers in the movie. I just have a little brief part. You’re a movie star now. Oh, yeah. And I’m executive producer this thing. So step by step, a year and a half in the making. And I didn’t realize how long it takes just to edit and shoot couple scenes over again. And it takes some time. It does and then when this COVID thing came up that set it back another few months. Big starts. This is not a small movie. No, no. This is a legit movie. Oh yeah. Lionsgate and backing it and big stars in so what’s it when Wilson and Luke loosen? loosen? Okay. Yeah. And Olivia hobo? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s just universe size.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:31

extremely hot.



No, no, I think you’ll get a lot of promotion because they have like, she’s got like, 10 million fans following or something. And she’s gonna have it out all over. But this big movie coming. This is a big thing for them, too. It’ll be the biggest release, at least in the summer, probably. Wow. All right. So


Mickey Gordon  1:03:49

there’s a movie coming out the features hedonism, too. And it’s called the swing of things.



Ironically enough, so watch that I think you can probably Google the trailer just came out. I think this is yesterday. It was the day before yesterday, the day before that the trailer came out. So I’m sure you can find it somewhere online. Oh, I can’t wait the swing of things.


Mickey Gordon  1:04:10

You know. And for those people that are not traveling back here to hedonism, it’s a great way to get a little taste of home, right? I mean, because there’s people that don’t have a trip booked or maybe postponed a trip into 2021. You guys have an insurance policy that you can buy, right, that lets



you move your trip. If for some reason you don’t feel comfortable? Yeah, it’s pretty cheap. So not really make money like life insurance things. But it’s really just allows people that aren’t sure about traveling. We just want you to book and get ready because it’s opening up and a lot faster. I think 10 people would have thought a lot of people saw we won’t travel anywhere this year. But you see around the US things are opening around Europe, things are opening and because we’re safer than those places. Yeah, we’re moving in full swing. Yeah. And there’s no reason to postpone the next year.


Mickey Gordon  1:04:52

But you guys are so confident of that fact, you actually give people an incentive not to change their



right if you don’t change reservation will give you a voucher you can use on site and stuff. So we really want to encourage people to not postpone their trip that they were planning on or to book. The next one. So we’re trying to help this out. We understand there’s hesitation by a lot of people, maybe not even about here, but about flying and things like that. So and I know there’s some people afraid of flying these times. I understand that people are afraid they’re afraid, but most people have been trapped in for three or four months ago. stir crazy. Oh, I was one of them. Yeah, without the kids. Oh, not used to and the spouse is both. I think people are ready to get out to the sun. And you


Mickey Gordon  1:05:34

know, I was walking down the beach. We’re doing the tour. And I saw and it was even from the outside. I saw everything and I kind of tingling a little bit. Oh, yeah. And I thought to myself, there’s no place like home.



No, nice. You felt that way? Yeah, I didn’t miss any days here. June 15. couldn’t come fast enough for me.


Mickey Gordon  1:05:56

Yeah. And I think that’s what I’m going to call this episode. As a matter of fact, is there no place like home, and you know that your time today is very much appreciated. I won’t want to take you away from any more of this tour than I already have. But thank you very much for inviting me and spending the time with us. I’m gonna make sure this gets out to as many human beings as possible because they need to know how hard you guys are working to ensure their safety, their good time, and to make sure that home is the place they always remembered it to be. All right, well, thanks. Thank you. This has been an interview with Harry Lang, CEO and chairman of hedonism resorts. My name is Mickey. We’ll be right back after this. Hey, everybody, welcome back. This is Mickey with the casual Springer podcast and still missing the beautiful Mallory. She’s not with us today. And it really sucks because she’s prettier than me. But I still have so many beautiful with me. I have the amazing Trisha and from sun holiday with me here in Jamaica Shan, how are you today?



I am fine, doing very well today. And it’s great to see


Mickey Gordon  1:07:07

you too. It’s down here in Jamaica. And we don’t have any of our people. And I mean, they still get the amazing people here. And of course, you came to visit me which is really nice to view.



And I’m loving, no persons can’t see but I’m just loving this hairstyle. bold color and loving.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:26

I get a lot of commentary on it. But I’m glad you got a kick out of it because that was the goal. So we’re gonna talk about a few things today. So you know, some holiday is the premier carrier of guests that come in to Montego Bay to a lot of places here in New grow. Anybody that’s ever ridden the bus was probably on a sunny holiday bus all the way back to back when it was the road to new grille. And it was dangerous as hell



Exactly. We’ve been doing this for we’ve been doing this for over 30 years and quite a bit of the people that we transfer, we have been transferring them for over 30 years. And we look forward to a welcoming them back. It’s less of a business relationship now. Because we’ve been doing this for so long. And it’s more like welcoming family back home. And we’ve been able to do that is kind of nice.


Mickey Gordon  1:08:12

So tell me about the history of some holiday let’s let’s kind of tell people whose son holiday is because it’s been over 30 years. But maybe there’s somebody out there that has no idea who’s on holiday,



I’ll tell you a bit about us. So first of all, this is a family owned and operated business. It’s actually owned by my father that started it quite a few years ago, over 30 years ago. We’ve had a proud association with with hedonism around we back from the super pharmacies when we were the official transportation provider for the hotel. And some of the groups that we transfer now have been coming with us from years. We operate a desk at the airport as well. So what’s great about that is once you come into mbg you don’t have to worry about exiting the airport and trying to find your your ride or staff are there to agree to ride in the transportation Hall area and take you to your to your vehicle whether it’s a private transportation, or sub boss. And one of the things to note as well, especially for large groups is we do have a coach that can accommodate. Well now we’re doing with with the new COVID protocols, we’re operating at 70% capacity on our buses, but if you have a large group that’s coming in, we have a vehicle that can handle that everyone coming in at the same time. If you have someone that wants a more intimate transportation, we do offer private transfers as well. Okay,


Mickey Gordon  1:09:37

so you guys have been in the transfer business for a very long time and I have seen that coach it is a full size bus. So anybody out there that that maybe doesn’t know we’re talking about it’s a greyhound. I mean it’s a big bus. It’s it’s a full size bus. So let’s talk about COVID a little bit. And I’ve had this conversation with a lot of different people including people on the beach netmask is driving you



That’s fine, that’s fine. Feel better find the protocols are the protocols So?


Mickey Gordon  1:10:08

So tell me, did COVID hit you guys this business pretty hard? I mean, it seems like a dumb question, because I know it did. But I want you to talk about it a little bit what happened? And do you have to lay employees off?



Yes, it did. I mean, all businesses within tourism sector were impacted. And one of the things that we as best as, as best as possible, we try to keep on as many of our staff as we could, and of course, provided care packages for them. And we had to leave some persons off. Unfortunately, with the understanding that once the hotel is reopened, that we provide transportations to, then it’s back to its back to business as usual, of course, with the protocols in place. So some of the things that you can expect that are different now that were there before is once you’ve come through the airports, New Revised health and safety protocols, you will notice at the desk now that there is a glass shield at our desk that has been that would have been installed. So that’s a little different. You will notice now that perhaps those clients that we’re used to, being greeted with a warm hug because they become more family, you may miss that, because that’s not that’s not happening anymore. But of course, the customer service that will become known for that hasn’t changed, you’re still going to be greeted warm, there’s still going to be welcome to the sun holiday service. As you’re boarding the bus, although you’d have gone through the sanitization process at mbj. As you’re boarding the bus, we will do one, you will be sanitize. And you have the option of using your own or using ours. When you’re leaving from the hotel to head to the airport, we will do temperature checks as well. So that will be a little that will be different from what you’re used to. We’re no longer using the physical brochures that are toward us, because as you know, we operate the tour desk here at hedonism, too. So we’re using virtual brochures for all the attractions and tours that we provide at the desk. So that will be different as well, you will be able to just pick up a brochure and go with


Mickey Gordon  1:12:14

  1. Is that accessible by a QR code? Are you able to just shoot that with your phone and see it? Is that how you access that?



Well, not at the moment, but we can work with our providers to see how best we can set that up.


Mickey Gordon  1:12:25

As the virtual brochure work it access.



So for that one we do have, we will have a tablet that’s there so that you’ll be able to so we can either will, it will be running on the on the screens that we have at the tour desk, as well as we have the capacity to send it to you via email.


Mickey Gordon  1:12:40

Oh, very nice. Okay. So 70% is your limit. And that state assists with social distancing. Yeah, tell me about sanitization protocols. What are you doing for the buses before people get on after people get on? And how difficult was that to achieve the certification with the government.



So for us, they want the protocols that we’re having. So before you, you get on the bus, you can be reassured that it would have been sanitized from the last use. So we’re not you know, once we’ve transferred one set of clients, then the boss is immediately sanitized before another group or another individuals are able to use the bus and of course we’re using the sanitization that procedure that we’re doing are those that are approved by the tourism product development company here in Jamaica. So we’re following their protocols to a tee to ensure that that is the environment that we’re transporting our guests in is very safe.


Mickey Gordon  1:13:32

Absolutely. So do you guys transfer outside I mean, I know that you go from obeyed you also run operations in Kingston or maybe Emilio from Moby go to a Cheerios obviously, is it mostly new grilled and



mostly in the grill and we do some otorrhea but or, or strength really is or Montego Bay to NyQuil transfers, we do alterus as well. And we do Kingston, but not on a regular shuttle. So Kingston are all private transfers at the moment. Got it.


Mickey Gordon  1:14:02

So some of these areas in none of Jamaica is particularly hard hit, which is a blessing. But some of these areas are hurt or hit, are there any different protocols for going to and from a harder hit area? Or is it all pretty much the same?



Well, the thing with this, the clients that we transfer are pretty much going from either one hotel to another, or one attraction to another. And all the hotels and all the attractions that we’re working with have been working closely with the Ministry of Health and with the tourism product development company, to ensure that their safety protocols meet the guidelines that the company that country has set in place. So we’re not very concerned about that aspect of it because we’re taking our passengers to places that would have been certified and we know that their protocols have been inspected by the government of Jamaica. So that’s not a big concern for us. That’s good news.


Mickey Gordon  1:14:51

So you said you were doing some things to help employees what were the sort of things were you doing? Were you providing a stipend or helping feed people or maybe additional training Are you doing for your employees that were impacted by this? Okay, so



one of the things, I’ll start with the training for us, because we, the government of Jamaica had ruled out a training program that was done to the tourism product development company in the different resort areas. So that was accessed by our staff as well. One of the things that we did as well, we’re a part of a group of companies, we also have a hotel within the group of companies that are owned by this family. So care packages were provided. And those care packages were food items, and an individual basis for persons who had individual challenges individual needs, they were able to speak with a general manager with regards to those knees or the chairman. So that facility was opened up for persons, you know, everyone’s situation isn’t the same. We also were able to constantly provide or, or or staff with information on terms of what is happening, what to expect, and keep the communication lines open, as well. The government of Jamaica also had a care package that was accessible to some members of the team. And we work with that to give them to assist them with getting access to, to those those types of grants that were provided by the government as well.


Mickey Gordon  1:16:17

Absolutely. How, I mean, obviously, everything’s in flux right now. I mean, the island is open, but most of them the grills not open yet. So and you just said that the strength of your company is Montego Bay to new grill. So obviously, you’re probably planning on things getting busier. But what are your plans? Do you anticipate getting busier this summer, or maybe being a slow summer and picking up later? Yeah, to



be honest, with the rest of the year is going to be very small. We don’t anticipate visitors we vomiting to where it was prior to COVID for for the remainder of this year. So we’re looking forward to a more robust 2021 that’s where or or side software 2021? No, it’s just really keeping the doors open, ensuring that the service is provided for those guests that are coming in ensuring that for those staff that we can maintain and ensure that they have a job to get up and go to we provide that for them. And hopefully, well, not even hopefully we do anticipate that 2021 is going to be a good year. for us and for other companies. I mean, let’s face it, it’s hard to stay away from Jamaica, isn’t it?


Mickey Gordon  1:17:24

I’m here.



And to be honest, as a Jamaican citizen, I’ve been really impressed with the steps that our government has taken to keep our citizens and our visitors see, it hasn’t been easy. But these are not easy times. And we really just have to do work, there’s not going to be a solution that’s going to that’s going to be ideal for everyone, you’re going to have some person to think we you know, we probably could do it better, probably could do it differently. But so far, I’m very impressed with the steps that have taken to manage the spread of the virus here initial vehicle.


Mickey Gordon  1:18:03

This is going to be an uncomfortable question. But mathematically, it’s a good question. If you’re operating at 70%, and anticipate doing it for the rest of the year, do you anticipate raising your prices in order to maintain profitability during this time? Well,



that’s the big thing that we’ve had to face. Because the truth of the matter is, when you’re coming out of a pandemic, I mean, no one wants to hear reprice, a price increase. And that’s one of the things that one of the decisions that we’re struggling with right now how to how to continue to keep a viable business while maintaining the rates. And you know, the rates were competitive to begin with, it’s a very competitive market. So we can we are looking that we will need to have some increases in 2021, for sure. But we’re trying to do our best to maintain them as, as best as we can for 20 for the remainder of 2020.


Mickey Gordon  1:18:56

It’s a tough question.



Yeah, I know. But you know, the truth is, it is what it is. We we’ve been around for over 30 years, and we want to be around for much more than that. And we’re just going to have to meet those decisions to ensure that we strike a balance between ensuring that our guests can afford to use our service while at the same time ensuring that we have the resources to pay for staff, you know, because that’s that’s pretty much what the most important financial expenditure that we’re going to be focusing on is ensuring that our staff have an ability to to earn sushi. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, or team members have been amazing in terms of the support we have. We’ve wanted to work together as a team to ensure that we can keep this company going.


Mickey Gordon  1:19:47

Sure. No, in again, these are these are all tough questions. So we’ve got a lot of people out there that are going to listen to this that are going to read some of the things that I’m writing and They’re gonna ask themselves, should we go back to Jamaica this year? What do you say to those people? Why Why should they come back? And why should they get on a summer holidays bus?



Okay, well, what I would say to persons that are looking to travel, you know, you’re, you are at the stage where you’d like a vacation. I think, for those persons, one of the reasons to come back to Jamaica is the protocols that we have played have put in place, as a country to our airport, I know coming through, it may be a little uncomfortable, especially if you’re used to a totally different experience. But for me, I’d rather have that level of discomfort and knowing that those protocols are keeping me safer, or keeping the people that I interact with safer. And I think we’ve done a pretty good job of creating that environment. So it gives you peace of mind to want to come here, if you look at the protocols that we’ve put in place for our hotels and our transportation sector, if you look at those protocols, we are doing all that is recommended. And I think more as well, in terms of if you think about how many times you were scientists come into the airport, if you think about that, and as well as the amount of times that we would have had to set asides or buses to ensure that our staff as well as the people that we transfer are safe, if if traveling to a safe destination is your number one priority. Given the COVID pandemic, I think Jamaica is a good destination for you to travel. So because of all the systems that were put in place, and if you’re looking for a transportation company, to get to your resort for the holiday is definitely a best pick for that because we’re combining not just the health and safety protocols that are going to keep you safe. But that you may can vibe and feeling that you want to get on a vacation, we haven’t lost the humanity of the service that we provide, while creating a safe environment for you. So let’s


Mickey Gordon  1:21:59

touch on that real quick before I let you go, because I do think that something that brings people to Jamaica is that humanity and the passion of the people, the excitement, and for a lot of people from the time they get on the plane. That’s when the party starts when they’re coming to Jamaica. And it’s different. Now, when you get on the plane, they they more or less threaten you in the airport and in America, that if you don’t wear your mask the whole flight, you’ll never be able to get on another plane again, as long as you live and you’ll ride a bicycle everywhere you’re going to go. And then you get here. And then of course there’s a bit of a process. I don’t think it was an unnecessary process. And I certainly don’t think it was unreasonable. As a matter of fact, I think it was very reasonable outside of you know, rubbing my frontal lobe of my brain with a Q tip. It was it was quite, it was quite okay. Just long, and a little much but we got through. So when does the party start? And how do you do that with maintaining social distancing? How do you provide that humanity? And what is that humanity to your company and your father’s company? Is? What’s the How do you give that how do you provide that humanity and that passion and make sure people know that this is something you love, and what you want to do? Yeah,



and I think for us as from the transportation perspective, in terms of providing that meant, I think it’s, it’s probably a little easier for us to test for the other resorts perhaps. But for us, our priority is not making the experience seem very medical. You know, so the, even though we’re wearing PPS, we now have to let that warmth show in different ways. So maybe the sparkle of the eyes since we can’t get to hug you and welcome you home as we we were used to do in for those guests that were very close to and have that personal relationship with. It’s also always being cognizant that, you know, this is leisure, this is leisure. So the conversations that we have the ride that we have over to be to be just as engaging as we have been in the past. So this is where you know, it’s not silence for an entire bus ride from Montego Bay to NyQuil. But just to engage our guests really in conversation. And making it not been such a tense transfer from the airport to the to your resort destination,


Mickey Gordon  1:24:19

do they still stop for red straight?



So here’s the thing about the stuff. So in keeping with the protocols that we have established here in Jamaica, those stops if there is some hope they already had a protocol, because we do have persons on the bus that are coming from the airport that don’t necessarily want to meet the multiple stops because they want to get to the resort as quickly as possible. So there is already a protocol in place prior to COVID-19 where there is a stop request it has to come or you know from the guests would have to initiate they want to stop for a restroom break or whatever it is. Now those steps are going to be restricted to places that are certified by so that there are sanitation protocols will be in keeping with the mandate from the government. So that is a change that you’re going to see. But you know, our government is, or institutions and our governments are working as best as possible to get everyone on board to ensure that as many persons as possible, have ruled out their health and safety protocols. So you’re not excluded from that. Exactly.


Mickey Gordon  1:25:27

So, do you guys demand masks on the bus?



Well, in terms of the protocols that we have in place, right now, there is a requirement for as we speak, there is a requirement for for masking keeping with the protocols there is


Mickey Gordon  1:25:48

on the bus during the transfer masks are required to mask are required to presumably



present you to see I was careful to say a president that because we’re actually still in the process of just testing, what is there what is I mean, I’ve had this mask on for the entire interview, and even in terms of driving over just to see what the experience would be like. So we’re still testing that and making sure that we don’t have anyone to talk to the boss, because, you know, you’re not getting the required oxygen flow. But the protocol currently requires person still.


Mickey Gordon  1:26:26

Do we anticipate potentially, that being relaxed in the future if it’s not a problem?



If if when we work with the minister of health care or with tourism development company, we see where there can be tweaks to enter the protocols that we have in place. And of course, we’re open to that. But the priority right now is safety first. Safety first, that is that is what the


Mickey Gordon  1:26:54

requirement is right is the most important thing. A customer that gets sick, that probably doesn’t get back, we’re probably not very happy. All right, well, so his son holidays, been around a very long time, you guys really have an amazing reputation. Rachel’s rascals has been using you guys for a long time. Yeah,



we do appreciate you know, we do appreciate the business. And the confidence that you come back to us time and time again, we don’t take that lightly,


Mickey Gordon  1:27:23

is that the message that we want to send everybody is that we appreciate your business. And when you’re ready to come back,



we want you to that’s definitely the message that we want to send everyone. to us. Our our clients have become family, you know, we have, we have guests that require a specific driver as because this driver has been transferring them for years. And as a company, we have done our best to ensure that we’re that relationship and that request is made we we fulfill it because the truth of the matter is, human connections are a huge part of what drives our business. And if coming home to Jamaica means it’s Mr. villi, or if any of the drivers that have been transferring you for years, that’s what makes you comfortable. That’s what we’re going to do. That’s what we have been doing for years.


Mickey Gordon  1:28:15

So one more question. We’ll make it a fun question. You know, it is important to know when you’re traveling, when we’re casual swinger For God’s sake. So my fun question for you is this. You guys are going to be encouraging social distancing. I have written some holiday specials. Oh, yeah. I’ve been part of some of the adventures on some of these buses. So what are we gonna do about Hanky Panky on some holidays buses because it’s happened in this is hedonism.



They were that’s a tough one. Well, you do know that they’re the person that traveled together. So if you’re you’re traveling together as partners, I think you form your own sort of little bubble, your little bubble, right? So I will leave it at that you’ll be a part of your own little bubble. Where you must be, you must be social distance from anybody that’s outside of your little bubble. If you’re traveling to Jamaica, with the person that you’ve been in quarantine with or have been pretty much in quarantine with her for quite some period of time, then I think it’s safe for you guys to be


Mickey Gordon  1:29:24

safe. Alright, Trisha, and I want to thank you so much from our listeners that casual swinger and from the readers they’re going to use some of these quotes for this has been great information. I know you came a long way just to do this interview with me. So I appreciate it very much. And this is going to be really important that some of the most common questions we’ve gotten has been about this sort of



thing. So no problem. It’s been a pleasure. meeting you and been a pleasure actually taking the ride down to Nashville because it gave me a chance to test what would happen if our guest had to wear the mask from Montego Bay, Sydney. I’m the guinea pig to the NL test it back off as well. Give me some feedback on that. The great thing is our buses are comfortable, you know,


Mickey Gordon  1:30:06

air conditioning. So that’s good to know. Actually one more thing. So if you can’t stop for read straight, or I guess you said you’re gonna stop at certified places. Do you guys provide any kind of refreshments in the buses?



That’s something to look at as well. That’s something that we’re looking at. How do we enhance the experience on the bus given all the other changes that are taking place?


Mickey Gordon  1:30:28

Well, this has been wonderful. I’ve been here with Tricia and from some holidays there a transfer company that transfers primarily from Montego Bay to new grill but of course, other places like otro Rios and per request out to Kingston, Jamaica. This has been casual swinger. My name is Mickey who will be right back after this. Hey, everybody, welcome back. This is Nikki again. I’m so nice to have your voice. Everybody’s only heard me for like the last hour.


Mallory Gordon  1:31:13

Oh, that’s all good, though. I think what you brought to the table, though, was very helpful, very beneficial, and very thorough. I love that you’re such a journalist at heart.


Mickey Gordon  1:31:24

I think the story needs to be told I love what these guys are doing. I I love that interview with Trisha into there at the end. I mean, it just, there was so much to say. And that’s that’s real Easter Island businesses, these that’s her father founded and own some holiday.


Mallory Gordon  1:31:39

That’s amazing. Yeah, I didn’t know that.


Mickey Gordon  1:31:42

And she’s also the sales director and marketing director for a hotel in Montego Bay on top of her regular job.


Mallory Gordon  1:31:50

So, again, it just it shows how crucial people are that travel to this country are to the economy.


Mickey Gordon  1:31:59

It’s the lifeblood of Jamaica, it really is. Not as much as the people of Jamaica are but outside of the people themselves. The people that come to Jamaica are certainly there.


Mallory Gordon  1:32:09

Yeah. And I’m really impressed at all the additional protocols and steps they’re taking to make this as safe as possible. Right. But again, it’s still up to you to decide your comfort level.



That’s right at that


Mallory Gordon  1:32:23

at any point.


Mickey Gordon  1:32:24

We’ve got some more interviews coming you guys his way next week. So a week from today. You guys are going to be able to hear interviews from people like Shelly fun King. She had a funking awesome wedding. Oh, I know. Wait. Miss Fung King. Fung. It’s okay. When she said it to me. I looked at her I said like,


Mallory Gordon  1:32:43

like and she went Yep, just like it sounds. She’s funky. Now. Awesome. She goes Yes,


Mickey Gordon  1:32:47

I’m flunking awesome. I love her. She’s amazing. She’s the CEO of club mo Bay and VIP, which is both in Kingston and Montego Bay. We have Brandon from island charter, who the director of operations, we’ve got shell boy who is a staple on the beaches of Jamaica.


Mallory Gordon  1:33:02

So the folks that have not been Hito will not know who shell boy is. But if you go and watch that YouTube video, you’ll see him and he’s balancing a soccer ball and a water ball on his head. He’s one of the locals and if you probably don’t know this, but the shores of the beaches don’t belong to anyone, they belong to the island, the island of Jamaica, so locals walk around and offer lobster or whatever, they’re happy to be peddling that day in there. They’re usually really kind some people feel like they can be oppressive, but if you get to know these people, they’ll start to look for you. Yes, every year and have we’ve never really patronized shell boy he’s just become kind of a friend.


Mickey Gordon  1:33:37

Oh, but he saw me on the beach and he couldn’t have been happier. He tried. Yeah, he was he was so happy and that really comes through in his interview and the last one is Lindley grant, who is the opera He’s the owner and operator of Mr. Reasonable which is a transportation company much like sun holiday, but they do private cars for people.


Mallory Gordon  1:33:55

Yes. And we’ve had his nephew’s drivers we’ve had him drive us on they’ve always been really good to us they they look after us take care of us in fact when they pick us up from the resort say we want to go have somewhere go somewhere else for dinner. They will sit outside and wait for us they won’t drop us off they will wait to make sure we’re


Mickey Gordon  1:34:12

good. It will it’s it’s just it was they were great interviews so we want to give them to you are they swinger related No, wait if you want to know these people if you want to know the island of Jamaica, if you’ve never been listened to some of these stories that they told me while I was down there, we’re gonna give you a special out of sequence episode next Sunday to get the rest of these but in the meantime, Mallory you want to remind everybody how to find it.


Mallory Gordon  1:34:37

Oh, they know by now. We’re casual swinger everywhere guys, that’s casual swingers calm you can reach out to us at podcast that casual swinger? Find us on social media sites that’s Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. As well as the dating sites we live our daily double date nation of course, quiver as lsst see and cast v.


Mickey Gordon  1:34:56

Guys This has been a supersize episode of casual swingers. I’m sorry for that. But that’s what you get when we’re gone for a month and a half. This has been real. You’ve been listening to casual swim.



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