I Regret Nothing! – Exploring Regret In Lifestyle Relationships w/ The CornFed Swingers

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Regret is a funny thing.  So often it’s better to regret something we HAVE done instead of something we haven’t done.  However, in the lifestyle, does that still apply?  How do we express regret even if it means we’re not sorry?

We dig in from the beautiful corn fields of Iowa with the amazing CornFed Swingers to have an honest & open conversation about our experiences…and our hearts on this second-to-last episode of Season 4 on Casual Swinger!

PS – We’ve launched our Hedonism II trip for April 2023!  Join Casual Swinger on the sunny beaches of Negril, Jamaica for an epic vacation you’ll never forget!

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Hearing impaired? This podcast is transcribed for your convenience.

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Mallory Gordon  00:08

You’re listening to the casual swinger podcast. As your hosts, we need to warn you that the material you’re about to hear may be sexual or explicit in nature. This podcast is intended for an adult audience. Now we don’t expect you to act like adults. What’s the fun in that?


Mickey Gordon  00:22

We’re a married couple living in Florida with over 13 years of experience in the lifestyle and we take almost nothing seriously. Casual swingers a variety show meaning we’ll cover everything from music to events, travel, and even the occasional hilarious screw up. Our show was about entertainment. We’re not licensed professionals had anything and our stories, commentary and guidance should not be confused with the opinions of a licensed professional.


Mallory Gordon  00:46

Now that you know, let’s take those pants off and get comfy Hello, and welcome back. Welcome to casual Zinger. I’m not gonna assume that you listen before maybe it’s your first time so Hey, what’s up?


Mickey Gordon  01:05



Mallory Gordon  01:06

she can’t fuck with you. You got it. I went.


Mickey Gordon  01:10

That’s right. So hey, another episode of casual Swinging. My name is Mickey and Mallory and we have special special guests with us today. Actually, we’re not in the studio. We’re in their studio. No buckle Iowa.


Mallory Gordon  01:22

Yeah, we’re in the cornfield.


Mickey Gordon  01:23

We are out in the corn with the swingers of the corn. The corn fed swingers. Hey, guys, what’s up, Derek and just say hi to everybody. How’s it going?


Mallory Gordon  01:35

Hi, you’ve done this before.


Mickey Gordon  01:37

He just got all sheepish. That’s pretty good.



Thanks for having us. Yes.


Mallory Gordon  01:41

I’m really happy to be back. The the times we’ve recorded together have we ever done it in person? No, it was over the phone. That’s hilarious. Well, it’s long overdue that


Cornfed Derek  01:51

we were very nervous at the time. So very nervous, but this is a lot easier. I like the roundtable events. Very nice. So you’re here in the corn? Yeah, well, we just grab another year of corn and eat it while we’re here. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  02:04

yeah, that’s that’s all we just just sit around every corner all the time. You heard when


Mallory Gordon  02:07

it gets really hot here, they just automatically start, like popping off. Yeah, no.


Mickey Gordon  02:12

Sounds like rifles going off, but it’s actually orange.



So if you hear that little pop, it’s no,


Mallory Gordon  02:17

it’s not a drive by definitely not a


Mickey Gordon  02:21

drive by corn thievery. All right, well, hey, so this episode, we’re going to talk about regret a little bit today. And you know, regret has a lot of connotations. A lot of permutations we’re gonna dig into all of that, you know, regret is we can literally just call this episode regret because I think we’ve all lived with regret. We’ve all dealt with regret. We know people that have so we’re going to talk about that, and a lifestyle sense and you know, what it feels to what it feels like to regret things and deal with it and deal with it with each other. Talking about it. So we’ll get to all that here in a little bit. But we got some news.


Mallory Gordon  02:53

Oh my gosh, we have so much news. I feel like it’s been eons but also just like a hot minute since we’ve been here. So am I allowed to say this? Can I be the first one or do you want to do the honors? Oh, no, go read it. Okay, so this has been a long time coming. I’m so excited to actually like vibrating on the inside. So we announced just the other day, casual swinger week and Hedonism to April 2023. And like, I’m losing my shit, I’m so excited.


Mickey Gordon  03:19

It is a big deal. It’s something I think you guys know that we love hito. We’ve gone to keto for a long time. We’ve been a part of things that keto and we’re very fortunate to have had that opportunity to be a part of things and learn the ropes from some of our friends. And we’re hosting our first trips


Mallory Gordon  03:34

as it’s as it’s great, um, we have a great partnership with a travel agency. We have a lot of rooms available and can’t wait for you guys to join us and how fortuitous it is that we’re here with the cornfed swingers live, and they’re our first host


Mickey Gordon  03:49

couple. That’s right.



We’re so excited. So excited. It’s gonna be an amazing time. So come party with us because it’s so so ready for it.



Can I just say being live in person watching you guys just announced that was fucking awesome.


Mallory Gordon  04:03

Yeah, that was that’s a momentous occasion. Like that’s gonna go down in like the scrapbook casual swear, Lord. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  04:10

It’s our first trip. And we’re very excited about it. And we couldn’t be more excited to announce you guys as our hosts.



So we’re honored and we’re so excited. So excited. This


Mickey Gordon  04:18

is going to be a big deal. If you guys don’t know Derek ingested corn fed swingers on Twitter,


Mallory Gordon  04:23

you won’t be sad, if you like I implore you to do so.


Mickey Gordon  04:27

Yeah, exams are fantastic. We adore him. And we love working with him. So I know that they’re going to do a great job of supporting all of you and helping us in our aim. Which by the way, in casual Springer week, we have one goal. Our aim is to make sure you’re having the best day of the best vacation of your life. Period, end of story all day, every day. We’re not always going to hit that mark, but we’re always going to try and that’s what these guys are here to help us do.


Mallory Gordon  04:50

100% I think our value systems are very in line they’re Hedo veterans, and they’re some of the most wonderful humans on the planet as far as like empathy, sympathy and Just general compassion and good times. I mean, fuck if you can’t have a good time with these guys, it’s probably on you.


Mickey Gordon  05:07

Yeah. And they think you’re kind of hot. Yeah, just a teeny, teeny. So there’s a lot of things about this trip that we’re excited about. But I think the biggest thing that we’re excited about is just getting some of our favorite people in the entire planet together to party in the place we call home. And, you know, there’s a lot of lot of people, you could go with a lot of different trips out there with a lot of different features. We like to think we bring something a little different to the table. I happen to know that some of our favorite friends in podcasting are talking about coming along with us. No, it’d be a great opportunity to hang out your favorite podcast,


Mallory Gordon  05:42

how fucking epic is that going to be fingers crossed, and like, just stay tuned for more.


Mickey Gordon  05:47

I’m not gonna call anybody out. But it’s there. That’s a great opportunity. And we’re partnering with a company called shameless care. Ooh, this trip, which I’m pretty excited about.


Mallory Gordon  05:57

Yeah, this is something very unique to our lifestyle, community space. And I think it’s a great opportunity and resource for anyone out there, especially anyone who’s apprehensive about leveraging their primary care physician or talking to their doctors about their lifestyle choices, because I know you and I have both had experiences that were very, very negative in that aspect. And it eliminates that. So I’ll stop talking. Let you explain what it is.


Mickey Gordon  06:21

No, no, you think you’re doing a great job. I mean, shameless care is an opportunity for you to not only get tested regularly at home without a doctor’s intervention, without anybody looking down their nose at you without declaring yourself high risk or non monogamous or whatever, to the family. Doctor.


Mallory Gordon  06:37

I offer you counseling. Yeah. Well, our


Mickey Gordon  06:40

system in Orlando is very religious. And that was hand me a religious survey when I walk in, and they regret it every time. As a matter of fact, the last time I filled it out, they threatened me with putting me in the mental ward. Yeah, yeah, it was not. Oh, it was great. But I fucked with them relentlessly. They were like, how’s your relationship with God? I’m like, aren’t Lord Satan, he’s great. I mean, honestly. But the gist of it though, is shameless care gives you the ability. And, frankly, give it to you in a way where there’s no shame, and I hate to use that, but it’s why they call it shameless K, no one can look down their nose at you. And it’s not just testing, it’s also ed. So if you wanted to get some swinger insurance, you could do that through these guys and do it a little cheaper than you could do it through Roman, for hymns are some of those other guys. Now the package that we’re partnering with these guys on is a pre and post trip testing package. And we’re going to be offering a special deal for anybody that comes with us and books with us. We’re going to give these guys so when you come and book with us, one of the perks that you get is a casual toys gift card to help you buy some goodies for the theme night. Yeah, he’d knew


Mallory Gordon  07:44

exactly, exactly your outfits or maybe some toys, right, some staples, like maybe some of you an economy, it really whatever you might need for the trip.


Mickey Gordon  07:51

Yeah, we’re gonna help you out with a gift card for that. However, if you book shameless care and send us a copy of your receipt, you can redact all the important stuff, let us know that you booked shameless care in your coming on our trip, we will double the size of your casual toys gift card.


Mallory Gordon  08:06

Yes, just as a little bonus for being responsible for something I know, it’s not covered by your insurance. So it isn’t out of pocket expense. But, you know, for the cost of discretion and convenience. In my opinion, if it’s something that you can afford to absolutely do it, I know we’ll be doing it.


Mickey Gordon  08:22

I just think it’s a really cool thing to have, especially if that’s something you’re concerned about. We always do tell people, and we espouse this all the time. If you’re going to play you should get tested when you play yeah, period, every time. Why? Because your test is only good until you play. Yeah. After that. Who the fuck knows? Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  08:39

exactly. And let me let me clarify my statement, you could probably try to submit it to your insurance company to get a partial payment on it. But it’s gonna be a little tasking.


Mickey Gordon  08:47

My recommendation to people would be to use their FSA, use your flexible spending account, because that makes it it makes it a tax write off. So if you’re going to do something, use your insurance use your FSA to pay for your testing. And by the way, they have full year plans where they will send you tests that you can do every couple of months. If you’re an active swinger, and you’re not a casual swing or you’re an active swing or you get your ass out there and aggressive


Mallory Gordon  09:08

swinger and aggressive swing or Olympic swinger


Mickey Gordon  09:12

prolific swingers.com Here we go. Anyway, we’re going to hit Oh, we hope you guys will come with us. This is going to be a great time it’s it’s April 1 through eighth you can book on casual swinger.com Look at the top it says casual swingers going to Hedonism to and I shit you not we are going to Hedonism to with our friends Derek and Jess, the cornfed Swingers, as our first hosts couple, we’re very excited. We have more announcements to make for you as time goes on. Get ready to hear more about it. You’ll probably be sick of hearing this shit. But we’ll stop bugging you if you book all the rooms so let us know. Yeah, let’s go and where are we going next after we leave Iowa?


Mallory Gordon  09:45

Oh my gosh, we have a busy summer. So we’re headed to Nashville. Yeah, yeah. And that’s Vegas, motherfucker. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  09:52

we won twice to Nashville.


Mallory Gordon  09:53

I know. So. Yep. So we’re going next weekend and then we’re gonna be meeting the Joneses. Yeah, right. And then we got to think group Yeah, it’s September so September. We’ll be up there for a weekend epsilon shenanigans with this guy. Yeah, we’re really


Mickey Gordon  10:07

looking forward to we can’t think the Joneses enough for throwing us a little love and letting us jump in with them. Really excited to host with those guys and maybe do a joint session or something with two people that I consider to be royalty in this space.


Mallory Gordon  10:20

Just such good humans like it, whatever they need them in. You know, and I know it’s gonna be a good time.


Mickey Gordon  10:26

Oh, yeah, I think well, I just think that they set the tone for all of us. They show us how this shit supposed to be done. So I’m really looking forward to seeing it firsthand, because I know that they’re professionals and it’s gonna be a lot of fun. And then how do you not have fun in Nashville?


Mallory Gordon  10:40

Yeah, that’s true. That’s


Mickey Gordon  10:42

awesome. I’m really looking forward to that, too. Now, what else do we got going on? Well, obviously we’re in Iowa. Now we’re in Iowa National next week. We’re in Nashville in September, we will be getting out and about and doing more things, which you guys are gonna see. Because you know, this is episode 21. A season four, which feels like it’s lasted for fucking ever


Mallory Gordon  10:58

right now. The longest season of our lives. Right.


Mickey Gordon  11:01

It’s the season that never ends. But it does end the season ends with the next episode, episode. 22. That’s coming up after this one. And in season five. Our faces are coming out.


Mallory Gordon  11:09

Yeah. I mean, we’re kind of we peaked, I looked around the door and said, Hey, stop. But um, ya know, we’re all have our faces out there. Did


Mickey Gordon  11:17

that on your only fans page?


Mallory Gordon  11:18

I did. But yeah, I like that. We’ll have our faces out there.


Mickey Gordon  11:22

Yeah. What’s you know what? You guys have been looking at us for over four years. Now. We want to look back at you. I think it’s a good time. We’re looking forward to it. Anything else we need? Tell these guys about?


Mallory Gordon  11:32

Don’t forget to book your trip and


Mickey Gordon  11:37

come party with us.


Mallory Gordon  11:38

Yeah, if if you’ve ever been thinking about going here, now’s a great time.


Mickey Gordon  11:43

Oh, it’s gonna be the



best. These guys show you the best time of your life. I’m telling you. That’s from the bottom my heart. There’s no doubt about it. Yeah, cue


Mallory Gordon  11:51

the dancing from Dirty Dancing and nobody puts baby in a corner.


Mickey Gordon  11:54

Oh, yeah. Well, and we’re gonna start dropping hints do you guys do I’m gonna jump out of here and jump in with regret. But you know, we’re gonna drop hints. We’re gonna let you guys know what kind of shenanigans are coming your way. We’re gonna tell you what makes this trip special. Over the next couple of months. You’re on casual swinger, but you also pay attention on Twitter and Instagram and all the other places we exist as we start to roll out some of the secrets that we have coming your way for this event. But the first one right here is letting them know who their hosts are gonna be. You want to tell everybody how to find us and we’ll come back and talk about what it means to regret your life.


Mallory Gordon  12:25

Yeah, hell yes, I do. Yeah, let’s go. So we’re casual sonar everywhere. You can find us at casual swinger.com You can also message us podcast at casual swinger.com And if you’d like to say something nice about us, which is really super cool and makes my day you can give us a review on iTunes. But if you don’t like us, please send who do we send this to black and kinky? Oh, yeah, I did definitely send you guys I’m just kidding. I’m totally getting


Mickey Gordon  12:48

sent us a lock and Trish.


Mallory Gordon  12:52

Let’s let’s switch it to the sweet life. Life podcast courtesy of Mallory. Now we’re also on social media that’s Instagram youtube, facebook and twitter sexy Twitter Hey, and you can also find us on the dating sites like don’t be bashful you know let’s let’s get together have a drink or something. That’s SLS double Diggnation sec and Cassidy


Mickey Gordon  13:15

I can’t do it guys. You guys have heard me try to do it. It never works out well, but hang in there. We’ll be back in just a minute with our friends the corn Fred swingers to talk about regret. Corn Fred corn Fred Fred’s their neighbor. Everybody hears first name is corn. It’s just corn Fred corn free to corn chips. corn, corn nugget tester kids. Or dogs. We’ll be back in just a second you’ve been listening to catch on screen All right, everybody. Welcome back to casual swinger short little break where we didn’t do anything except get more whiskey and more corn puree. We named it the corn dog. Did


Mallory Gordon  14:10

you get that? Yeah,



yes. We look for our dog and he was nowhere to be found. But


Mickey Gordon  14:14

he’s using the corn. The corn Yeah. field is that your bedroom? It is. Yeah. All right. We’re gonna have a conversation about regret corn felt. Okay. Your corn felt up? Yes, I did. Oh, that’s great. This, this deal is going to be all over this episode, guys. So maybe we’ll end up regretting that. I don’t know. That’s a good one. You like that? Yes. Just bringing in the segues. But so let’s talk a little bit about just the concept of regret.


Mallory Gordon  14:43

Yeah, this is gonna be a good conversation because it kind of has. There’s two categories of regret. You have hindsight and what’s the


Mickey Gordon  14:50

other one? Well, you have regret things you’ve done and regret things you haven’t done. Yeah. And so when I was a DJ in college There was a butthole server song I think is what it was.


Mallory Gordon  15:03

And that’s not where I thought that was going. But I’m glad I did say butthole.


Mickey Gordon  15:06

I now see a whole lot on the show, but we usually know there’s Butthole Surfers on it anyway. And the intro to the song. A child says, Daddy, is it better to regret? Or no way he asked him what is regret mean? That’s what he says is that what is regret mean? And he says, Well, the funny thing about regret son, is that it’s better to regret something you did do than to regret something you didn’t do.


Mallory Gordon  15:30

So you’re telling me these words of wisdom came from the bottle? Say there’s Okay,


Mickey Gordon  15:33

that’s right. I’m certain times where the wisdom came courtesy of the Butthole Surfers? No. But for us in the lifestyle, and I’m gonna get some other people to talk because you guys are getting sick of my fucking voice now. Do you guys think that it’s better in the lifestyle to regret what we’ve done? And what rather than what we haven’t done? And why you guys have any examples?


Mallory Gordon  15:55

Yeah, this is a tough one. It is


Cornfed Jess  15:57

really tough. And in the context of the lifestyle I I was thinking about this today, knowing this conversation was happening. And that in normal life, I would say that regretting something that you didn’t do is worse than having regret after something you do, if that makes sense. But in the lifestyle, is it different because you know, safety could be involved or something that’s could be traumatic or detrimental to your relationship or what have you. Yeah, let’s


Mickey Gordon  16:30

get on that rabbit hole for a minute because we didn’t talk about we talked about shameless care in the lead in from a safety perspective. Do we often find ourselves in the lifestyle regretting things that came back to bite us? Is that the reason we regret it? Right. So for example, from a safety perspective, let’s say that you decided to play without protection. Okay, and an easy identification of regret there would be that you turned up pregnant or caught an STI. Maybe, you know, God willing, it’s something that Ajax washes off, but I mean, that’s Instant Karma that’s Instant Regret you go home it burns when I pee. This was a stupid idea. How do we deal with that kind of regret? If it’s something that’s fucking instantaneous? We know we fucked up.


Mallory Gordon  17:10

I think that one’s that’s like a donkey kick, right face, right? I mean, because it happens so quickly, that the delta between the enjoyment and the pleasure that you’re getting or whatever opportunity you had at the forefront that made it worthwhile, that risk reward conversation that you have, and then it flips it on its face and goes instantly and goes rant sorry.


Mickey Gordon  17:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, dopamine and serotonin are assholes. Because


Mallory Gordon  17:36

who you think so I love them so much.


Mickey Gordon  17:39

But once they start talking, your brain checks out their drugs. That’s effectively what they are. They convince you that feeling good rocks,


Mallory Gordon  17:47

I just call them chemicals. What else


Mickey Gordon  17:49

are drugs? I mean, if we reach out to sex on the friends, they’re gonna tell us that chemicals are amazing.


Mallory Gordon  17:54

We can have let’s have this conversation with a legal opinion that


Mickey Gordon  17:57

Oh, like I’ll remember I have six concussions. Eight. That’s okay. Cool. So you guys know, I think that when it comes to something that feels good, and it excites you, it’s easy to tell that little voice in the back of your head or the Devil or the angel on your shoulder, sit down and shut the fuck up. It’ll be okay. And then when an almost immediately when we do something like that, regret sets it even before something bad happens.


Mallory Gordon  18:27

Oh, yeah, the guilt like that. That intermediary guilt? Space. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  18:31

Or the fear of what the fuck that I just do? What have I done, that I fucked up my marriage, that I potentially hurt the person I love. Did this hurt me. So now I can maybe not be in the lifestyle the way I used to be because I went ahead and threw caution to the wind. That is probably, in my opinion, the most common example of regret, where we’ve done something that has put us in a position where we may have a problem. And that regret stems from something we talked about all the time in casual swinger fear. We’re afraid what we did, will come back to bite us. So we start regretting it. How do we keep that from happening?


Mallory Gordon  19:13

I mean, I don’t know you could live in a hole and never take a chance. I mean, I think I mean, you guys, you guys call me my bullshit. You think that’s something that pretty much everyone can relate to regret not only because you face the consequence, but that that space in between, I did this thing that’s not a norm or out of character. But I was inspired by the risk reward equation I did. But now that it’s happened, even though I haven’t faced any consequences. Now, I cannot help but think and churn and chew over all the potential negative outcomes that could possibly happen because of the choices I’ve made. Have you guys experienced that like in the lifestyle specifically? I know I think as humanity goes, I think we can all point at that but in the lifestyle does that relate to you to any degree?



We’ve definitely had some times in which we look back and we say, you know, we would we regret this, but at the same time, we don’t necessarily regret it because then now we know for the future that, okay, this is something that we didn’t want to do or that we wish wouldn’t have happened. So now we know how to kind of avoid it in the future. So I feel like there’s always a learning opportunity.


Mallory Gordon  20:19

I love that you said that because I had a conversation with someone. Recently, when we’re down in New Orleans, that when, as hard as it is, especially as a couple, you experienced some trials and tribulations and strife and lifestyle because it’s normal, right? But it’s different couldn’t be very difficult in the moment, it’s also an opportunity to learn something and grow from it. You know, because we have the general rule between the two of us, there’s no deal breakers. And so we, we give ourselves that, that security to know no matter what happens, we’re gonna get through it together. So no, no matter what, that’s still the deal we have together. And no matter how bad that situation could be in the moment, we’re going to look at it and go, Okay, we got fucked. It got jacked, we messed up. And it’s happened. It’s has definitely happened. 100%. And we haven’t made the same mistake twice. I will go out, as far as I know, in life, so we haven’t really made the same mistake.


Mickey Gordon  21:18

What No, I never SLIPPED MY DICK IN THE SAME door twice. Yeah, I always.


Mallory Gordon  21:22

Yeah, please. Yeah, I don’t. I can’t say my labia is, but I mean, I get what you’re saying.


Mickey Gordon  21:28

Well, so you said something just that I think is really powerful, and really points at something important. So when we have things that happen to us, that we find regretful or regrettable, or, and again, sometimes it’s instant karma, and sometimes we grow to regret it, because of maybe how we made someone feel, or someone we ignored, or someone that we didn’t spend time with, and we wish we had, they all become learning opportunities, opportunities to alter your behavior in the future to prevent from having to feel that way. See life as a teacher. That has also a despicable bitch. Right. So that’s really what we have to I


Mallory Gordon  22:12

gotta be a she.


Mickey Gordon  22:14

Maybe he’s a bitch. Okay, thank you. Yeah, so for for me, I think when I really sit down and evaluate regret and think about the mistakes I’ve made that I regret, they’re very seldom are they incident karma kind of things. They’re more about how maybe I felt made somebody feel with something I said, that’s usually what it is for me because I get a big mouth. Yep. But it’s also maybe the the road I didn’t take. Right. So we go back to Whitman and the road road show.


Mallory Gordon  22:48

Yeah, I feel that on a spiritual level, because I almost always err on the side of caution. Because I, I have trouble consolidating coping with the potential opportunity to have to deal with the consequences, right. So like, I tend to follow the rules a little more, I tend to take the road more traveled to the safer, safer one, for those reasons, because I just struggle there. But then I find myself if I had to say, what regret I experienced, it’s, it’s the roads not taken. The opportunities and the why didn’t I just ask for the business? Or, you know, at least try to flirt the worst you can say is no, right? Like


Mickey Gordon  23:34

I shouldn’t we’re afraid of being told. I know. We’re terrified of being


Mallory Gordon  23:37

I hate. It’s the worst thing ever. You never say it. And then when you do like I Fall to Pieces. Yeah, of course, the worst thing. So


Mickey Gordon  23:42

let’s let’s kind of drive this conversation back toward the lifestyle for a minute. So I’m going to start by saying something that I have regretted personally, in our lifestyle experiences. And let’s go around and just kind of think of something. So you guys, I’m giving you time, guys, since we’re round tabling this thing? Yeah. Do you think about something in the lifestyle that you did, or you didn’t do that you dealt with regret on? And in my case, it’s something I’ve talked about fairly extensively here on casual swing. But there are a lot of cases where I do find somebody interesting, I do find somebody attractive, and I convinced myself, they would not be interested in me. So I make the decision for them. And I told them in my head, that I’m not good enough for them. So I make their decision for them. And I have regretted it multiple times. I never learned my lesson. I never stopped doing it. Right. So in those cases, my regret is what did I miss? Read this. So this is this is the path I go to what did I miss? What could have happened? Could it have gone differently? And I actually spend cycles thinking about that. I spend cycles thinking about maybe we’d be friends today maybe I’d be sitting at their table in Iowa. You know, because it You guys are an excellent example of where we pulled our heads out of our ass. Yeah.



So glad you did. Yeah, too. I


Mallory Gordon  25:06

was brave as fuck. I’m just gonna throw that out there. It was like, I don’t know if this is gonna work, but I’m loving it out there and I’m going for gold.



You shot your shot. And you scored. It did it was great.


Mickey Gordon  25:15

Yeah, I believe I still had a microphone in my hand. And I looked over and she was making, you know, with with Jess or something. And I was like, Oh,


Mallory Gordon  25:22

I think I picked her up and like, we’re in the blood like cashmere. I like



I very much recall that moment. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  25:29

Yeah, it was it was pretty fucking hot. From my point of view to wearing a giant top hat.


Mallory Gordon  25:33

And I promise it wasn’t assault. I asked for permission. You did? You did? Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  25:37

But that’s a case where, you know, it had nothing to do with me. And frankly, if it was up to me, we probably wouldn’t have. Because I know how I act in those situations. That is a regret that I have. And I regret that I will probably do it again. And you know how hard it is to regret something you haven’t done yet. That is literally self flagellation.


Mallory Gordon  25:59

Yeah, yeah, it really is.


Mickey Gordon  26:01

Yeah, true. About email.


Mallory Gordon  26:04

Okay, so for me, it’s not totally dissimilar. I think I convinced myself, I think it’s a defense mechanism. Because I’m afraid of rejection, rejection and abandonment are really on my list of like, the bullshit that goes through and in my brain might be inherent or irrational fears that I possess. But definitely convincing myself that that person is not flirting with me, like Miss reading and sign. So I just decided that no one’s doing it. So I miss it completely. And I remember an the couple’s listening. They know exactly who I’m talking about. But like they actually asked for the business. And I think they were gearing towards like playroom activity. And because my brain didn’t process a minority deny the fact that they not dissimilar to You were flirting or suggesting that that was something that might be on the table. I was like, oh, no, like I thought they were being very literal in their statement. So I decided it wasn’t an invite. And it was hours later that it processed and I’m like, oh my god, they think I wasn’t interested in because they they basically, in a very sexy way kind of asked for the business. And I didn’t register that that’s what they wanted, because I wasn’t allowed myself to be in that headspace. Yeah, it was really a saint. It was something about playrooms. Really. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  27:28

So how did the regret that you’re you’re talking about right now, how did it manifest did it manifest in the moment did it manifest later, it was just due on it


Mallory Gordon  27:36

is much later. Now. It’s like, it’s like a ghost that haunts me a little bit, because I can’t redo that. And if I go to explain it, it’s gonna sound it may potentially sound contrived. Like, I’m trying to make them feel better. And I’m not like I am actually, I just convinced myself and this happens a lot at lifestyle events that we attend, because I go into host mode, because as long as I’m in host mode, I have a little bit of a stretch to fall back on to where like, I don’t necessarily have an opportunity for rejection. So I’m not really putting myself out there if I if I, if I feel uncomfortable, or have this irrational fears.


Mickey Gordon  28:13

So is that kind of a version of sour grapes? Where we’re going, you know, what? If I’m in host mode, and I’m working, then I can’t be told no, because I can’t ask. Yeah, busy. It’s kind of really want that anyway. Busy.


Mallory Gordon  28:27

That’s really, um, can we can we edit this out? Because now I feel really vulnerable and very weird.


Mickey Gordon  28:34

Well, I think I think to a certain extent, we all do it. Yeah. Right. And you made an interesting comment there. From my perspective, that regret itself becomes a specter that you have to live with, it haunts you and follows you. And whether it’s a lesson learned, which can be a good thing, or a road not taken, that becomes an obsession. And that’s not a good thing. So how about you just what do you got?



Oh, you know, it’s it’s the road not traveled for me. Not a specific circumstance, I would say, but just, you know, replant? Derek and I both do this, you know, after we go on a trip or after we meet a new couple, it’s, it’s replaying what could have happened or what could what could we have done better?


Mallory Gordon  29:16

So do would you say you like over analyze the situation? Yes. 100%. And is it normal to your character, and then you apply it to the lifestyles situation is like a multiplayer, like, takes my personality or characteristic was in terms of my 10? Yeah. Does that make sense? Or like how it resonates with us first, like, yes, emotionally? Yes.



Yeah. And we’re both I mean, we’re four years into the lifestyle and I don’t feel like we’re newbies anymore, but still, we’re more reserved, and sometimes I wish we were a little bit more aggressive, but at the same time, our style is a little bit more. You know, we want to be friends. And if we seal the deal, great, that’s the cherry on top but it It’s all it’s about the friendships for us. So, but of course, there’s always those times where, oh, man, I think they were flirting with us. Were they? I don’t know. And he’s like, we should have just we should have just asked


Mallory Gordon  30:10

Do you find yourself friends? Owning your like are caught blocking yourself because of that that tactic or that approach?



Not no actually not really


Mickey Gordon  30:22

know how people don’t have to do that.


Mallory Gordon  30:26

I’ve been reportedly friendzone and myself a few times. So I’m just wondering if it’s just a me thing. Maybe


Mickey Gordon  30:32

I call that a slow Tuesday, I friendzone myself all the time. So I get it. Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s the thing. I mean, everybody listens knows that at this point. But so it’s The Road Not Taken for you and wondering what you might have missed? How do you how do you get past that? Have you reconciled that if you come to terms with that in yourself to go, this isn’t what I want for our lifestyle experience. So I’m gonna maybe try something different.



I just go back to the learning and then when we when we are in a situation again, and realize that we’re kind of repeating something that’s already happened. That, you know, it’s we we recognize that and kind of bring it to our awareness and try and make a move in our kind of shy,



weird, weird way.


Mickey Gordon  31:21

be awkward until they want to fuck


Mallory Gordon  31:26

Hello, we are friends, we’re



friends, we know each other is always easy to like mask behind. So then that’s really easy for us to do, like we hide behind the corner. And then when we’re ready to come out and see you, then we just pop out of it.


Mallory Gordon  31:40

I see what you did there. You popped up, Lauren.


Mickey Gordon  31:43

Nice job Melaka. You know, my grandmother used to say that the challenge of youth is that it’s wasted on the young. And that by the time you figure life out, you’re too old to do anything about it. So having conversations like this, and listening to conversations like this, like people are doing right now, are kind of pivotal in key to overcoming that thing that my grandmother regretted on her deathbed, which is that if she knew everything that she knew, then when she was younger life would have turned out so differently. And it was one statement of regret. That if I had only known, I wouldn’t have done it the way I did it. But I asked her before she died. I said, What would you what about me? Would you have done anything differently? Because she saved my life? You know, she took me in? And she said I wouldn’t change a thing.


Mallory Gordon  32:40

She sorry. Wow. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  32:44

Even the parts that hurt. So when I hear things like that, and you think about things like that, I think that we carry regrets for people sometimes. I always thought she gave up her golden years for me that she gave up the years where she was supposed to be calm. And in resting and happy and going traveling and doing things. She gave up all that juries me. And I was a nightmare.


Mallory Gordon  33:09

Right? Yeah, I was off. Hey, I heard stories. That was often where a handful. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  33:15

And she gave up all that and didn’t regret a bit of it. And if she did, she wouldn’t tell me. True. So that’s not a lifestyle thing. But you know what our life is the lifestyle. We talked about that on Twitter when we launched her Hedo trip. This is who we are. So the failures that we have, when we hear we have conversations with the people we love and respect. Sometimes we can apply those things to the lifestyle and that’s kind of what I turned around and said is I don’t want to carry regrets. I want to be like her I want to say I’ll never regret a thing because I learned from it. Well, what about you? Derek? Did you Is there some aspect of the lifestyle for you? Where you’ve dealt with regret or carrying something that you wish he had done differently?



Yeah, for me, it’s it’s usually after after an event or something I always think about how I could have made it better for the person I’m with for Jess for everyone involved. I always just compartmentalize everything in my brain. So I’ll lay down at night. And I’ll still be off that that high that we all get right after after being with somebody else. And you know, and plane situations. And for me, it’s just I always think about what could I have done better. But I’ve learned to deal with that a little bit better. And that’s just over the years of continuing being in a lifestyle and communication everything’s gonna say communication, communication. It’s all it all comes back to communication. But I don’t think I necessarily regret what I do but at the same time, it’s just always thinking about how I can make it better and and he’s



at Ladies and


Mallory Gordon  35:00

gentlemen, yes, yes, I can attest to that. Very


Mickey Gordon  35:05

Derek’s pleaser,



making me blush. Like,


Mickey Gordon  35:10

he’s a taker, ladies. Hello, Princess.


Mallory Gordon  35:14

So we would you say that you’re at your own risk critic, but like, your scorecard in mind might be different for the same situation where you’re gonna say, maybe needs improvement, like, you performed well, but however you can see like a an opportunity to make it better, where maybe on the other side of the fence or like that was fucking phenomenal. So maybe you’re not giving yourself credit and deciding those things for them kind of like Mickey does. And to some degree,



yes. Always just your worst critic. I mean, that’s, that’s what it comes down to. You know, you Yeah, yeah.


Mallory Gordon  35:48

Does that take away some of the the glow and the pleasure of the experience like the after effects for you? Because you’re like running down the scorecard and taking in the bullet points for where you need to do better? Because it seems like



it’s over. I think in the moment. Yeah. I mean, we talked about it, you know, being in the moment and no, but I in certain situations, maybe, because you’re just because you want to just please them so so so much. It’s just more thinking about what they’re thinking. And and that’s that’s kind of what runs through my mind all the time. Is is did they did they like me? Did they? You know, what can I do in the future? And then


Mallory Gordon  36:30

they let you fuck up. I’m pretty sure.


Mickey Gordon  36:35

I already told you how to do this. I already told you just look at her ankles. tell you everything. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. You can tell everything about what a woman thinks of you by your theory.


Mallory Gordon  36:47

Yes. Your ears. She likes you. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  36:50

wrinkles on your shoulders, your good



words of wisdom.


Mallory Gordon  36:57

You’re welcome. Enjoy the virtue.


Mickey Gordon  37:00

That’s where you got to see these fortune cookies are great. Alright, so I want to talk about another facet of regret. And I think it’s probably the base function of regret. In what stems from it is apology. When you really regret something, you end up at least on some level apologizing for it. But why is it so fucking hard to say I’m sorry, and mean it. Because when you actually apologize and you mean it, you’re not going to do it again. You understand what you did wrong. And a lot of times, what we actually regret is that we hurt somebody that somebody’s mad at us. We don’t necessarily regret what we did. Because we don’t understand it. We don’t understand why it hurt. We don’t agree with them why they’re upset. What we regret is that we’re dealing with their bullshit in this moment. Right? Well, it’s


Mallory Gordon  37:55

a peripheral ancillary response to whatever that that risk reward conversation was, I still got the positive outcome. The peripherally on the on the sidelines. These were the other consequences that we didn’t maybe account for. Which happens all the fucking time in life,


Mickey Gordon  38:10

right? And sometimes you don’t know You fucked up to your wife. There’s a coffee cup of your head.


Mallory Gordon  38:14

I think I’m going to call you out for one second. Because there’s times real life shit lifestyle and regular, regular everyday vanilla live. That you’ll say something in the there’s like condescending, like, sorry, I’m like, You know what? No, fuck that. Don’t you don’t get to use that word. Unless you actually mean Sorry, means I’m not going to do it again. So if you’re going to do it again, you should probably just shut up and walk away. Because I will hold you to I took apologies very seriously.


Mickey Gordon  38:41

I just shut up walk away all the time. Now. Bucket. Still gonna do it.



So as as Midwesterners that’s our second language is to say sorry, bag. That’s really it’s open the door and oh, sorry. You go first. No, sorry. You go. Sorry. And word in our words. Oh, sorry.


Mallory Gordon  39:00

It’s like punctuation. Yes, it


Mickey Gordon  39:01

  1. It’s you guys and Canadians that just say sorry. Sorry.


Mallory Gordon  39:06

I think this spelled a little different.


Mickey Gordon  39:08

Alright, so let’s dig in on that a little bit. Do you apologize when you have nothing to regret? And why? Like what’s what’s where does that come


Mallory Gordon  39:19

from? That’s a loaded question. By the fact you’re trying to get people like in trouble tonight.



It’s an I’m sorry for the way it made you feel helped me understand. You know? Exactly. Which


Mallory Gordon  39:29

is way better than wink wink nod pointed this guy. I’m sorry. You feel that way. Oh,


Mickey Gordon  39:36

I’m famous for that one.


Mallory Gordon  39:38

I’m sorry. What?


Mickey Gordon  39:41

Yeah, let’s put it this way, folks. My words have gotten me into a lot of amazing things. Yes, I’ve also gotten me do a lot of bad things


Mallory Gordon  39:49

more than you’re ever has. I promise you and I


Mickey Gordon  39:53

always dig myself out as fast as they dig myself in. Correct. It does not always work though. I do love you dearly. for that. fact because masturbation is not as much fun without your own. Fair enough. Yeah, you guys don’t know if it’s still masturbating. But yeah, anyway. So for me regret perspective, you know, apologies are usually where that comes from, like, I really regret that you feel the way you do I regret that you misunderstood me and you’re angry at me do it again. Oh. But, you know, you just


Mallory Gordon  40:29

owe me


Mickey Gordon  40:30

no and I was just fucking with you. But the thing of it is I actually regret that I harmed you I regret that I caused you pain. How do we how do we explain that in such a way in the lifestyle in particular, because it could be something so simple and kind of what has my gears turning on this is we were part of a really unfortunate situation in New Orleans with a person that had a very bad situation. And we’re not going to go into it. We’re not going to talk about all that. But I had mountains of regret coming out of that situation for 100 Different reasons that I still have. And I can’t fix it. I regret that I couldn’t do what I said I could do I regret that there’s a lot of aspects to it. I’m not, I don’t have anything to apologize for, but I still have regret. And I still feel sorry.


Mallory Gordon  41:17

Okay, I’m gonna socialize this and I just want to get your your opinions, there’s another part of regret that happens. And I think it does relate to the lifestyle to some degree. Because we’ve all had missteps. At some point, it’s just a matter of time. If you and your significant other are in Christian lifestyle, and having experiences that you’re going to trip, it’s just an inevitable, right, we’re all fucking human. There, I feel like there is this gray area or blurred or dotted line from guilt and regret. And they can either be interpreted together or misinterpreted as one or the other. Like, I feel bad that that was the outcome. So does it make me regret it? Like there’s that’s part of the potential equation in there. And I think, for me, the guilt of like, if I did something, and it was kosher, like it’s all within the parameters and boundaries, but however, there was this unexpected factor. And, and by proxy, it hurt you, but it was never my intent to do so. The first reaction I would have is guilt. And then I consolidate that to regret. That’s the next progression of those emotions. is I mean, call me my bullshit.



No, yeah, you’re basically saying, you know, how do you get to regret? And so yeah, the circle of guilt? And then what comes in between possibly two of you know? Yeah, what are their emotions? Are you going through? So that’s another other thing that you’re basically saying as, as what other emotions go on on the way? Yeah, to regret


Mallory Gordon  42:51

Exactly. Are they part of the pathway? Or the result of are we confusing them together? Because when you have guilt, you’re also taking accountability for something you did? or didn’t do.



I think of guilt as me harming somebody else and regret as me doing something that I could have done better or wish I would have done or wish I wouldn’t have done but didn’t necessarily affect another person.



Yeah, cuz regret is basically internal and, and guilt is, is hurting somebody else is basically what you’re saying.



I mean, kind of, I guess, just, if I feel, yeah, if I feel guilty, that means that. I mean, I guess I could have been hurting myself too, you know. But just, when you when you brought those two words out together, that’s kind of instantly what I thought of guilt, as you know, feeling horrible for doing something to somebody else. Whereas regret is, oh, I could have done X or shouldn’t have done X.


Mickey Gordon  43:46

And the thing of it is, you don’t have your mom or your grandmother or your father, anyone to look at you and tell you that you did it wrong. All you have is that internal guide that says probably could have done that better. And learning how to deal with it and establishing a protocol inside yourself. For understanding what it is you’re feeling isn’t easy. So let’s look at yourself in the mirror and talking to yourself and going to suck it up, Percy. Get it together.


Mallory Gordon  44:14

Move on is always gonna be a fucking pussy. Switches are tough. They can take a beating can’t be a scrotum. You guys are all tender and


Mickey Gordon  44:22

very delicate scrotum. Yes,


Mallory Gordon  44:23

it is.



Suck it up the fucking ball sack.



Sounds way cooler. sounds way better.


Mickey Gordon  44:33

We meant to change the title of the episode. Suck It Up ball sec. So let’s just kind of we’ll put a cap on this thing here with this next pass through the table. In regards to lifestyle situations, let’s put one thing out there each. How do we avoid regret? What is something we can do to avoid situations that we regret in the lifestyle? moving forward. And we’ll start with Mallory because I want to give poor Derek a chance to think about it. Thank you. We stuck a mic in his face, and he’s



gonna know what to do. What do I do with my hands? I can you see my hands right now? Can you not see my hands?


Mallory Gordon  45:19

You know helps if you’ve laid it like, once you’ve gotten to that point, you get really comfortable with it like, well, I just knocked you off, like, so we’re good friends now. So I’m not scared of viewing


Mickey Gordon  45:27

how you talk to penises.


Mallory Gordon  45:29

I mean, you should know.


Mickey Gordon  45:32

In what we’re talking about here, Mallory is just, I think everyone deals with this. And we don’t talk about it. We don’t talk about we talk so much in the lifestyle. And they’re such huge things that we don’t really dig into one little word regret, with 45 minutes of conversation on one little word. And we could probably talk about it all night and different permutations. So in telling yourself, I don’t want to feel this anymore. What’s something you can do to keep that from happening?


Mallory Gordon  45:59

Versus a very personal me the situation that I gave you, as an example is to be more present and not use that that hosting mechanism as a crutch and a mask to allow things to happen be okay saying no or No, thank you. Because that is one of the reasons that that crutch kind of helps sometimes, or believing that that’s something they’re really doing paying attention, you know, more attention to the signs and signals from, you know, other people that are actually are maybe flirting with me, there’s an opportunity to have a great experience with them. And also knowing that if I, if I take that leap, as long as I have the intentions and the communication with you, you know, again, the potential for hiccups are going to happen. We may stumble a little bit but again, I have that foundation knowingly. There’s no There’s no deal breakers we get we can get through it. You know, you as long as we’re not maliciously out there trying to destroy each other over, we’re going to be okay. You know, so I think moving forward. That’s something I could do better to help mitigate. Any regrets I have in the future?


Mickey Gordon  47:02

As long as I don’t use your towel, and then it’s world war three,


Mallory Gordon  47:05

then it’s over.


Mickey Gordon  47:07

You get a deal breaker folks use Mallory’s Yes.


Mallory Gordon  47:10

Oh, my towels on my toothbrush. Whoo. Like I’m shivering right now. Don’t use my towel.


Mickey Gordon  47:16

up your toothbrush gets in the cracks when I’m cleaning the car does.


Mallory Gordon  47:20

Joke’s on you. That’s my, my, my food toothbrush. So brush, I hide my real one. Because I am scared you do that? Sometimes there’s like, I know, I’ve angered you and I go to bed before you some nights. And I’m like, he’s totally using my toothbrush to like comb my comb your armpits is what I was gonna say. Actually, you had a ticket, the next level fake. So buggy nasty. Moving on.



Yeah. Anyway, we’re getting this regretting picturing Mickey using a toothbrush too, anyway.


Mallory Gordon  47:54

But you can actually picture it. Sad, because we know that it’s a plausibility



out of the mind. Cache, I would say not using past regrets to kind of put blinders on for moving forward in a way. I wish I could give a specific example. But I can’t think of one at the moment. So I


Mallory Gordon  48:21

like avoiding the situation because he’s experienced Yeah. Wearing and how to,



like, yeah, just and then you kind of clam up make bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And also, you kind of alluded to it communication. So I have an awesome teammate. And just communicating, you know, like we said, we do you know, what could have what could we have done better? How can we avoid this in the future? So just making sure we have super open lines of communication, kind of like the no deal breaker thing. That’s a huge comfort, we say the exact same thing. I’m pretty sure we heard it from you and just 100% love that. And sometimes trying to go through scenarios before they happen to see what the potential outcomes would be not obsessing about it in any way. But to kind of give us a little bit of a roadmap going forward.


Mallory Gordon  49:15

I guess. That’s a fair one too, right? Yes. Yeah.



Yeah. Yeah, so for me, it’s I was thinking about this, but it’s how would you use regret as a positive thing? Because I feel like we’re, we’re putting in a negative light and negative con tation. But how do you how do you learn from it? And for me, I’m always trying to learn to do things better, right? So use regret as a teacher as a learning tool to build on something that maybe didn’t go as well in the past and then communicate with your spouse, your you know, and then build on that. So I think that’s one thing you you can turn it around and make it a positive thing instead of a home was a negative thing because I feel like this whole conversation regret is in a in a bad light. But we could we could make it in a good light. Yeah, you know, we could


Mallory Gordon  50:09

and I love that you said that and so I’m going to check in on you intermittently, and see how it’s going. Because instead of using that process, you go through the stick that you might be yourself with a little bit, you know, always moving that mark up for you and always saying, Oh, I have room for improvement because it can even though we may not acknowledge at the moment, it’s an upside down triangle, where you’re not giving yourself enough credit at the same time, right, but also going okay, and analyze and identified this, this circumstance, and there’s a regret tied to it. But I’m gonna learn from this and improve upon myself totally different perspective. I’m gonna check in on you and see how you’re dealing with that. All right, I want to hold you to it. Okay. It was just hold me. Okay.


Mickey Gordon  50:51

Great. So while you get naked already, I swear to God,


Mallory Gordon  50:53

all right, I’m gonna start snowing.


Mickey Gordon  50:57

So I’ll finish it off. And for me, my regret that continues to haunt me is all of the places I wasn’t all of the people. I couldn’t help


Mallory Gordon  51:11

that I can’t save all the puppies. The thing I’ve had this conversation, though,


Mickey Gordon  51:14

but it’s the thing that I end up regretting the most is when something happens and I couldn’t fix it, something happens. I wasn’t there. So somebody needed help. And I wasn’t around. And that’s that is literally the fear that I’ve carried with me with our children. You know, I had our youngest son asked me once, what are you afraid of? Because he, in his mind, his parents are superheroes, and we’re afraid of nothing.


Mallory Gordon  51:33

So he really does think he still thinks you’re a superhero. 100% And he’s an adult.


Mickey Gordon  51:38

And the thing that my answer to him is the thing I’m the most afraid of is not being there when you guys need me. That’s the thing that I That’s my paralyzing fear. And it’s the same thing for the lifestyle because I love this community as much as I do. That I feel like and what I have to develop, to combat regret, personally, is acceptance, that there’s only so much I can do, I can do the best I can do, I can create the best content that we can come up with. I can tell the stories, I can be honest, I can be vulnerable, we can go to these events and put ourselves in a place to try and help people. But we aren’t always going to be able to make it right.


Mallory Gordon  52:18

Yes. And something I’m going to hold you to is identifying those circumstances where you’re holding yourself accountable. Where you were never accountable in the first place, you had no impact and no hope of ever changing the outcome of that situation because it wasn’t your own. And you were you had zero visibility to it. But yet you still carry this guilt and regret. It is completely irrational. Because of those reasons. You know, I love you for being the white knight. However, that’s a that’s a that comes at a cost. And I six, almost 17 years. It is something that I’m constantly trying to help you with because you do beat yourself up over it.


Mickey Gordon  52:59

I’ve seen me do it recently.


Mallory Gordon  53:02

Like I said, we can’t save all the puppies. I want I get it. Everyone wants to save all the puppies. But sometimes, you just have to say no one. And that’s your impact. And that’s your influence. So be really good to the one. Make that one. You’re number one, and you’re only one.


Mickey Gordon  53:18

Yeah, so before we go, you just reminded me of a story by a crazy fucker. His name is Lauren Isley and Lauren Isley. He actually believed that humans evolved from catfish, so he is crazy as fuck. But he actually wrote a short story that was absolutely impactful for me. And it was the it was the old man in the sea. And if you’ve ever read the story, it’s an old man. He walks down to the beach, and there’s a young boy, that was just following a thunderstorm. There’s young boy furiously, hurling starfish into the ocean, as hard and as fast as he can. He’s picking them up from the ocean picking them up from the ocean. Looking left to right on the beach, he saw that there were millions of starfish on that beach. And he looked at the boy and he said, Why are you wasting your time. Nothing you do is going to make an impact here. Look at all of these starfish on the beach. Little boy looked down in his hand and he looked at the starfish in his hand. And he hurled it into the water and he turned around to the old man and he said, matter to that one. So that’s it. We’re going to be back in


Mallory Gordon  54:22

good times and sexy stories, everybody.


Mickey Gordon  54:27

They can’t all be sunshine and roses. But guys, I hope you’ll hang around for his whiskey of the month is coming up next. And this is a whiskey of the month that hit me like a ton of bricks when I figured out the story behind it. And I hope you guys will appreciate it as much as we


Mallory Gordon  54:39

can. Yeah, it’s actually an incredible story. It’s gonna be a little bit longer than you say if you’re a TLDR person. That’s your warning. Yeah, it is longer whiskey than it is incredible. And I implore you to hang in there with us. All right,


Mickey Gordon  54:53

we’ll be back in a hot second. We’re not going to be Valerie tell you guys where we are and how to find this because you’re still fucking here so you know where to With the corndog We’ll be back right after this you can listen to casuals


Mallory Gordon  55:25

Welcome back pleasure schedule so yeah Mallory


Mickey Gordon  55:31

was that like this grand exclamation? I’m Mallory fucking


Mallory Gordon  55:34

four years we’ve been doing this and I was like, do I say back or not? Do I do it? I’m just gonna do it. You assume they’re back. No, no regrets.


Mickey Gordon  55:42

No regrets. This is Mickey by the way. Hi, honey. Hi. So whiskey the month time I know we’re coming in at the end of the month with this. There’s a good reason for it. We wanted to talk to you guys from the great state of Iowa with our hosts for the casual swinger trip.



Roll. Yes. First one ever really


Mickey Gordon  56:01

excited about that? But also we’ve got a story amazing.


Mallory Gordon  56:03

There. M ay ay Z. No. All right. It’s okay. You guys,


Mickey Gordon  56:11

it’s so hard to tell a story with you as clowns around.


Mallory Gordon  56:13

You’re welcome. We weren’t gonna



comment. But you looked at me. So I had to Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  56:18

All right. So before we get started, we whiskey the month we’re gonna go with our old faithful story. What time is it candy


Mallory Gordon  56:24

is dandy, but whiskey makes you


Mickey Gordon  56:27

frisky. That’s right. It’s time for whiskey of the month. And this month’s whiskey of the month is going to be a little bit different. As you know the story of the whiskey we choose is as much the attraction here on casual swinger, as the whiskey itself. And this month selection is about so much more than whiskey. It’s a story of the first known African American master distiller a story about much more than a man. It’s a story of honor, respect, and an unlikely friendship that could be the greatest American story you’d never heard. It’s a story about a legend from the woods of Tennessee that changed the world and never got the respect he earned to win more than 100 years after his own death.


Mallory Gordon  57:07

It’s sincerely incredible. So the story of Nathan mirrors green is one of the most remarkable yet forgotten stories of our lifetime, and put nearest as his family and friends in his hometown of Lynchburg, Tennessee called him was the first known African American master distiller born in Maryland around 1820. We don’t know if he was born into slavery or later became a slave. But what we do know is sometime around the mid 1800s, he was rented to and began working on the farm of a country preacher and distiller in Lincoln County, named Dan Cole. Eric was a skilled distiller specialized in the process that gave his whiskey a unique smoothness known as sugar maple charcoal filtering, which is a mouthful. Today it’s called the Lincoln County process. It is believed by many whiskey and historians to have brought in by slaves who are already using charcoal to filter their water and purify their foods in West Africa.


Mickey Gordon  58:01

Nearest was such a skilled distiller and his sugar maple charcoal, filtered whiskey was the best in his area. In the mid 1850s, a young white boy came to work at the farm where nearest operated as their master distiller the young boy was the 10th child in his family and lost his mother to suddenly illness at the age of four months. So it wasn’t surprising at all that he began looking for things to do away from his family home. He worked as a chore boy from the preacher milking cows feeding slop to the pigs, getting water from the spring house and all the other things farmhands do, he wasn’t a privileged boy, he was a worker, just like nearest.


Mallory Gordon  58:39

Now, while the young boy worked for the preacher, he kept asking about the smoke coming up through the hollow on the smaller holler. Yeah, it is, yeah, it was a holler on the 338 acre property. He knew there were men hurrying back and forth from that area with mules and wagons, but he was never allowed to go. Finally, after some time of working as a chore, boy, the preacher agreed to give him in into the boys curiosity and take them to the area on the property where the smoke came from. Introducing the boy to a cool black grow as later described in the boy’s biography by saying This is Uncle nearest he’s the best whiskey maker I know of, and asked me to teach the young boy everything he knew about distilling, especially his process of sugar maple truffle.


Mickey Gordon  59:28

Now the important thing to know about this special process that nearest talk is the only difference between bourbon and Tennessee whiskey is this special filtration. So what nearest was teaching the young boy to do was how to make Tennessee whiskey.


Mallory Gordon  59:45

So as the years went by the end, we continued learning from URIs and eventually became old enough to be concealing his unique whiskey and other towns near Lynchburg. He’s older soldiers during the Civil War and found he was a great salesperson and entrepreneur. The whiskey sold quickly became The most popular in the area. During the Civil War at the age of 15, the young boy lost his father and began became an orphan. He would need to fend for himself all the remaining days of his life and chose the whiskey business as his career and a savior. Following the Civil War, once neurosis was a free man, the way choirboy turn businessman partnered with preacher in the distillery and eventually purchased the preacher shares and redeem the distillery after himself. Young man asked me to be his first master distiller and extraordinary progress for Shutts a time and place in history


Mickey Gordon  1:00:35

to show him respect that was, for the time, it’s just unheard of. Over time, that young white shore boy moved from the property and took his growing whiskey business with him. Although nearest retired and did not go to his newest distillery, near his sons, Lewis Ely in George all continued the tradition of making the best whiskey in the area and went to work with the young men at his new place. Near his grandsons Charlie and I also went to work for the new distillery. That young white boy who became a brilliant businessman, went on to become one of the most famous whisky makers in the world. His name is Jasper new, those of us in Lynchburg for some not in Lynchburg, but that’s where I got this piece of the story from new him his Uncle Jack, the rest of the world knows him as Jack did.


Mallory Gordon  1:01:28

The big reveal what’s really incredible is it wasn’t until 2019 So think think about that. Think about the hundreds of years that have passed this way. That nearish Green was actually recognized by Brown Forman, the parent company of Jack Daniels as their first master distiller replacing Jack Daniels himself. That might never have happened if not for the efforts of an opportunity entrepreneur and author fawn Weaver, who became obsessed with the story and learning about the truth behind the legend of this Tennessee whiskey. She actually moved from California to Lynchburg, Tennessee and tracked on local historians, descendants and documents to fully understand the impossibly Deep Impact of this master of his craft.


Mickey Gordon  1:02:08

To further celebrate his contributions, Weaver started uncle nearest and started producing a sourced whiskey that won over 21 awards in its early years, including the coveted double gold from San Francisco spirits competition. As further a maj to his contributions, every barrel of Oakland nearest 1884 is hand selected by a descendant of nearest green, and each bottle features the signature of that descendant who chose the barrel. Today on their 353 acre property, they house a distillery, a Rick house, and sprawling homage to the nearest Green family and descendants that have created these amazing whiskies. It’s home to the fastest growing whiskey brand in America, the only black owned and black LED whiskey brand in America and the first black woman to be named master distiller for any distiller in this country.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:04

The first African American master distiller story the story of yours Green was nearly lost in time for quite some time. But now that we know of this remarkable true story, we can share it and ensure that the credit to long overdue uncle nearest is told for generations to come.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:20

Casual swingers salutes fun Weaver and Uncle nearest whiskey by naming the 1884 blend our whiskey of the month for July 22. And it is long, long overdue.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:31

A fucking man cheers to that. Let’s Let’s raise our glasses and talk about the notes palate. The finish of this whiskey. It’s actually really really well done. It is I mean, and I say actually, that sounds condescending. It’s fantastic.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:46

Yeah, and it’s no longer a sourced whiskey. Same uncle nearest today is made from their own distillate that comes from their own corn that they grow on that 353 acre property in Shelbyville, Tennessee.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:59

So touching on this and so for the kind of stories that we’re looking to figure out the profiles and see if it matches with your palate, on the nose. It’s got a melted Carmel, French vanilla ice cream mix berries and light oak, not the charred oak on the nose.


Mickey Gordon  1:04:14

Right. And when we talk about nose that means that’s that’s what you get when you breathe in that whiskey for the first time from your glass. And the palate is what happens when it first hits your tongue that’s going to be light brown sugar, little lamb or Reto, some walnut, a little cinnamon, coriander and kind of a medium to thick. They’ll feel for such a light and airy bourbon. It’s actually quite a thick melt


Mallory Gordon  1:04:37

and I love him thick. I couldn’t help but it was right there for the taking. I had to whether it meant it or not. The finish which is actually my favorite part of tasting this. I know that we must sound like very pompous assholes right now. But the the finish is weird. It really rides or dies for me. This one has oak tannins, leather, spice and simple and Short when like a lingering so what that means is this is a savory connotation. It’s a little masculine actually. And it’s after, after labor that the finish of it on the back of the mouthfeel. But it’s not overpowering by the heat.


Mickey Gordon  1:05:16

There you go. So the short version, the short version, is it’s a light bodied whiskey. It’s excellent for sipping or mixing into your favorite cocktails. And the story is one that American never should have forgotten. And we’re really proud to be able to tell that story here on the show. And we think you should give it a shot. It’s 4999 and retail, you can find it in most of the retailers around the country. If you can find it. I’ll tell you of the whiskies we’ve selected for you. This one is not necessarily easy to find. Find it on drizzly.


Mallory Gordon  1:05:48

Yeah, that’s true. And one yep, I think it’s starting to grow in popularity. I think the story is struggling for Olympic ate, which makes it obviously more interesting to not only the education in the mind frame, but once they realize how good it is. I mean, the good news travels fast too. Yeah, so


Mickey Gordon  1:06:04

so the 1884 expression, which is the least expensive expression is named that because that’s the last year of the last barrel of bourbon, that Uncle nearest himself distilled. So 1884 is a celebration of his last barrel. Now you can also get 1820 20 is the is their small batch version. It’s a little more expensive. It’s not our whiskey of the month because it’s over 50 bucks. But if you go that route, it’s celebrating the year of his birth. And of course we don’t know exactly when he was born since he was a slave. There weren’t records kept with that information. So we just kind of guessed but either way you go you’re gonna love uncle nearest. And we hope that you love the story as much as we do. Now, of course we got to get out of here. We’re well into over our hour. We hope you had a good time and we hope of course we’ll see all of you in April that Hedo but in the meantime, Mallory you want to tell everybody where to find us?


Mallory Gordon  1:06:51

Yeah, you can find me get it here on April 2023. orgasming are everywhere you can find a schedule swinger.com You can message us a podcast that’s casual swinger.com as well. We are also catching swinger on social media. Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube and you can vise on deities and sites that are SLS SEC Cassidy and double detonation.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:12

Alright guys, it’s been a hoot. We’ll be back not too long after this with our last episode of season four. Say bye bye cornfed



see later in April Yeah, and we’ll all be naked there. So you guys



should better be there. It’s gonna be a freaking blast


Mallory Gordon  1:07:29

cartwheels and jumping jacks.



You know how to party and they will throw the best party out there. So


Mallory Gordon  1:07:35

everybody come I love you for that. I’m going into somersaults


Mickey Gordon  1:07:39

naked party in minutes, folks, you’ve been listening to casual swingers.