The Ghost of Swingers Past – Moving Past Our Experiences In The Lifestyle

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The things that happen to us in life shape us.  There’s almost no getting around it, but is that a good practice in the lifestyle?  Hear about some of the things, both negative AND positive, that have happened to us and how we dealt with them, got past them, and moved on together in the lifestyle on this week’s Casual Swinger!  SPOOOKY BONUS!  – We announce the winner of the Womanizer Premium courtesy of Double Date Nation!!

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The Ghosts of Swingers Past

Thu, 9/2 10:03AM • 1:08:35


swingers, friends, lifestyle, fucking, happen, casual, people, talk, experience, felt, halloween, bad, situation, couple, play, condom, ghosts, positive, shit, rascals


Mickey Gordon, Mallory Gordon


Mallory Gordon  00:06

You’re listening to the casual swinger podcast as your host. We need to warn you that the material you’re about to hear may be sexual or explicit in nature. This podcast is intended for an adult audience. Now we don’t expect you to act like adults. What’s the fun in that?


Mickey Gordon  00:20

We’re a married couple living in Florida with over 13 years of experience in the lifestyle can we take almost nothing seriously. Casual swingers a variety show meaning we’ll cover everything from music to events, travel, and even the occasional hilarious screw up. Our show was about entertainment. We’re not licensed professionals. And our stories, commentary and guidance should not be confused with the opinions of a licensed professional.


Mallory Gordon  00:44

Now that you know, let’s take those pants off and get comfy. Hey, are you guys and ghouls? Welcome back to casual swinger. I’m your co host, Mallory.


Mickey Gordon  01:04

Feels like you were trying to say all you cool.


Mallory Gordon  01:08

Yeah, maybe a little bit of had like a similar cadence. I got you. Alright. are you sir?


Mickey Gordon  01:12

Are you gonna go I know you’re gonna kill me and leave me in the swamp.


Mallory Gordon  01:16

Hey, that no proof yet?


Mickey Gordon  01:18

Okay, but there’s still a little psycho there. I mean, that’s like,


Mallory Gordon  01:20

doo doo, doo doo doo doo. And again, kind sir. What is your name?


Mickey Gordon  01:24

Oh, I’m Mickey.


Mallory Gordon  01:26

Hi. Nice to meet you, Mickey.


Mickey Gordon  01:28

Hey, do you want to hook up with the guy you just met? Cuz that’d be fun.


Mallory Gordon  01:31

Sure, why not?


Mickey Gordon  01:32

Alright, so


Mallory Gordon  01:32

Yeah, no kidding.


Mickey Gordon  01:34



Mallory Gordon  01:35

anyway, so hey, this is our Halloween episode. It


Mickey Gordon  01:39

is did you guys like the spooky music? It was spooky.


Mallory Gordon  01:42

It was spooky. I liked it. Good job.


Mickey Gordon  01:44

You know what I like mixing it up at the holidays for these guys mix it up when I mean, like I remember last year, and I just figured this out. Because when I went back to find the audio for this episode that’s coming up after this one. Since it’s a throwback episode, I actually found where all of our fellow podcasters for our anniversary last year recorded our interest for us. Ah, which was super cool. And I was like, I love that we do like silly shit like that. I do any of that. I like being a little cheesy.


Mallory Gordon  02:12

I think it’s part of our charm. Maybe it’s not I don’t know,


Mickey Gordon  02:15

I don’t even know if it’s fucking charming. But it was a really good time. So, you know, we we really kind of enjoy doing that sort of thing for you guys in this episode is called ghosts of swingers passed by ghost swingers pass. We’re going to get into a little bit later in the episode talking about the lessons that we learned through positive and negative experiences, as lifestyler is being added as long as we have been. And if some of those things that we’ve been through haunt us today, as opposed to teaching us positive lessons.


Mallory Gordon  02:45

Sure. I mean, so many things happen in our lifetime that shaped our past and how we react to specific situations. So we’re gonna cover some of that later. Yeah, that’d be cool. Yeah, but before we get into it and go over our housekeeping items, two things. First of all, I got some fucking jokes for you. Cuz it’s Halloween. Again, come on, come on. I love this. Okay, second year in a row, like yeah,


Mickey Gordon  03:08

I have to do that. You know, some crazy and he’s gonna recite them to you in a pool somewhere. I


Mallory Gordon  03:11

love that, please. Alright, so first question. What do you call a pumpkin that is carved in September.


Mickey Gordon  03:20

West Virginia pumpkin.


Mallory Gordon  03:23

I premature a jacket lantern.



Oh, my God.


Mallory Gordon  03:29

That’s cute. Can I do one more?


Mickey Gordon  03:33

Oh, yeah, well, by all means.


Mallory Gordon  03:36

What is the vampire’s favorite part of sex?


Mickey Gordon  03:40

orgasm? It’s my favorite part. The regulating TV funny.


Mallory Gordon  03:52

Whatever I’m moving on.


Mickey Gordon  03:54

I think people have grown to really appreciate your mom jokes at Halloween.


Mallory Gordon  03:59

I think mom jokes like are greater than dad jokes. Well,


Mickey Gordon  04:03

yeah, everything’s greater than dad. We’re at the bottom of the fucking food chain in this house is just how it works. But yeah, that was that was pretty good stuff. So okay, so there’s your Halloween jokes, folks. I hope you enjoy them. What do we got going on? What are we doing here in the lead in? Well, first things first, before you know I mean, we get into deep. You guys might remember that we were doing a promotion on behalf of casual toys and casual toys calm for double date, nation and Double D Those are our friends Dave and Andy. This is honestly and and you guys that have gotten in on this have seen this already. It’s an amazing platform. It’s a platform that’s got so much capability. But there weren’t a lot of people there yet. And that’s something that we really wanted to help them change because what we love about double detonations approach is they’re so authentic. They’re not out there. You know, buying up user accounts where there’s no people, there’s just a bunch of accounts that never check their email right? Everybody there is real. And we really, really dig that. And we love that they’re growing organically and authentically. That is such a positive thing. So we wanted to support them. So what we offered is we offered a womanizer premium which is Mallory’s favorite by far sex toy


Mallory Gordon  05:14

hands down. Ultimate toy. Never leave home without it.


Mickey Gordon  05:18

Yeah, it’s it’s an amazing toy. It’s great for couples play. It’s great for personal play for a girl it’s really not worth the shit if you’re a dude. But you know for girls, they love it. So we said we are going to give one of these away which by the way, it’s $190 toy. Yeah, so it’s not a cheap toy by any means. It’s a premium sex so we’re going to give it away to somebody that bought a lifetime membership to double deep nation. Between It was like, early September or knows. early October through mid set. No, it was early August through mid Jesus


Mallory Gordon  05:46

was so close. It was early August, through the end of September.


Mickey Gordon  05:51

This is why I’m not allowed to talk.


Mallory Gordon  05:53

It’s okay. I was just gonna let you figure it out. Just kind of trip over sorry. I should have rescued you. Huh?


Mickey Gordon  05:58

No, just like leave me to die. Okay, like you did it.


Mallory Gordon  06:00

Alright, I am on I’m on edge here. Can we announce the winner already?


Mickey Gordon  06:04

Yes, we cuz we’ve been waiting weeks for them. We did pull a winner. We have a winner. Now. We still have the big announcement coming from Doubleday nation. We’re gonna leave that to those guys. But we do have a winner for you. And drumroll please.


Mallory Gordon  06:18

That’s not a drum roll. Like a motorbike do do I say it? You say it we say together. All right. So if you are on Twitter at birch soul 11 Congratulations. You’ve just won an amazing toy.


Mickey Gordon  06:41

Me. So there you go bird soul 11 I’m gonna reach out to you on Twitter tomorrow bird soul and we’re going to get an address for you. We’re going to send you your fancy schmancy brand new womanizer premium


Mallory Gordon  06:54

yes and i want to review


Mickey Gordon  06:56

yes that’s what we asked for in return review let me know if you love it casual who donated that prize which is awesome. And hey, by the way since we’re talking about casual toys calm make sure to check it out between now and the end of the month. Blush novelties are on sale. 30% off. What are we talking about blush blush makes everything under the sun for the builders to vibrators to nipple clamps to cock rings


Mallory Gordon  07:19

shirt. I call them an economical line too, because they’re very reasonably priced. But what I love about that in that category is that they’re the quality of product is still there. I have a very, very picky vagina that’s super super sensitive. And I’ve been very happy with every accoutrement. I buy a lot of their dildos for harnesses.


Mickey Gordon  07:40

Yeah, they’re really great line for that. Matter of fact, some friends in the content creation space, who were looking for a girthy piece, and it was a blush piece that we ended up sending them and it’s genuinely impressive.


Mallory Gordon  07:53

And they have everything they have rabbit toys, and vibrators they have you name it, they make it


Mickey Gordon  07:58

Yeah, they do. And so I kind of refer to them as kind of the Ford or the Chevy of sex toys and the respect that it’s it’s good quality. It’s not a Ferrari or Mercedes by any means. But it’s still good quality and it’s excellent for the price. So check that out on casual toys calm. And that’s between now and the end of the month. Of course now, what are we doing it? I mean, it’s every night right now. What are we doing? It’s getting ready, right?


Mallory Gordon  08:23

Getting ready for he? Oh yeah, I’ve been packing like a fool. So we have


Mickey Gordon  08:28

packed two weeks in advance Who the fuck does that?


Mallory Gordon  08:30

Because I’m a micromanager and I’m a control freak and I like to be well prepared and I do not be presented the packing so it takes time especially with my schedule so I organize every little step I do. I’m gonna stop talking about my neuroses and move on it’s


Mickey Gordon  08:46

she’s not kidding guys. Like she literally has little sandwich bags with What’s in the bag written on it and each bag has an outfit for a different day


Mallory Gordon  08:56

isn’t a great that they fit in sandwich bags, though.


Mickey Gordon  08:58

It is. They fit in sandwich bags, but it’s just the craziest thing. And for me being a dude, I can basically pack one pair of shorts, two t shirts. And that’s it for the week.


Mallory Gordon  09:09

Oh poor you. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  09:11

well me Come on. I have to carry all the techie shit. I have to carry all our podcasting stuff and our recording stuff and all this stuff for the rascals and you don’t know what the rest of the bag is for my hats?


Mallory Gordon  09:20

Yes, I was gonna say you have an entire suitcase of just hats, which saves adorable fucking hats.


Mickey Gordon  09:25

It’s getting out of control so


Mallory Gordon  09:27

November sold out. We’re getting ready to leave here soon so if anyone’s interested in traveling with us there is the February trip Yeah, that’s right around the corner. There’s still some rooms available if you have questions about the trip traveling during these times um, anything anything Feel free to hit us up at casual swing comm slash travel with us? Yes. Or you can look for more information at Rachel’s that is our a c h a s rascals calm.


Mickey Gordon  09:52

There you go. Or you can just email us at podcast at Cosmo swinger if you want to do that and will absolutely tell you all about what we’ve got going on. So this Trip coming up in February. And honestly, even if you’re going with us on this trip here in a few days, if you’re listening to this, you know, hot off the presses. Listen to this, and this is kind of important. And we’re not trying to scare anybody. But you know, tragedies happen when you travel. And when you travel outside your home country, some of those tragedies can be kind of expensive. And sure, you know, we just had this experience not with anybody in our group or in the rascals or anything, but there was just a tragedy down in Jamaica that we heard about. And it’s so difficult when these things happen, and you’re so far from home, and you’re not prepared. And I’m not saying they weren’t prepared the very well, maybe, but oh, my God, how much worse? Would it be? If you’re not? Yeah, and that’s what travel insurance is for?


Mallory Gordon  10:44

Yeah, it’s just a reminder to us to cover our bases and make sure you know, that we have our ducks in a row with that, because, you know, anything could happen, you know, I could get like the world’s most wicked splinter in my foot and how to get infected. I mean, I’m in a third world country, like, you have to have some sort of recourse. So I’m, I feel a little ashamed that we haven’t thought about this before. But I’m glad that we’re taking the steps to do it now. And there’s also another announcement right with as far as traveling into that country, specifically what their requirements are going to be.


Mickey Gordon  11:13

Yeah, we don’t have a lot of data on this just yet. But what Mallory’s talking about, it’s it’s well, box? Yeah. So what’s happening is there was a new story that hit the wire Today was a press release from the Ministry of Tourism from the island of Jamaica, that said that there will be a compulsory travel insurance for visitors to the island of Jamaica, starting on November 2, that’s really soon to require everybody that comes into need this. So there’s some question as to how legitimate that is, yeah. But what they’re saying. So the insurance is called Jamaica cares. And that insurance is estimated to cost about $40 per person and provide $100,000 in medical insurance, to anybody coming to the island, according to the press release that I read today. Now, again, I don’t have information, I personally reached out to the Ministry of Tourism, I personally reached out to the PR manager for the Ministry of Tourism as well. And I also asked our friends, Harry, who’s a reporter for CNN, to reach out to get a little media weight behind it and see if we could get an answer. So we get that answer. We’re gonna give that to you guys, probably on Twitter, Facebook, and everywhere else, we’re gonna put that wherever you guys can find it. So you don’t have to wait for an episode. But what we do want you to do is if you are traveling outside this country, it doesn’t matter whether you’re traveling with us, you’re going to Hito you’re going to desire doesn’t matter where you’re going, I want you to use your head and get some travel insurance, whether it’s compulsory or not. Because it’s not just about getting sick. It’s also like silly things that happen all the time, like losing your luggage


Mallory Gordon  12:44

we were just talking about, you know, we’ve been very fortunate that we’ve never dropped a mic in the pool. And then the second that came out of our mouths, we were like, and this is going to be the time we drop a mic in the pool, especially


Mickey Gordon  12:55

after I just bought $700 mics.


Mallory Gordon  12:57

Well, that’s just it. And it covers that, like, you know, yeah, like little things you wouldn’t think about and typically, like nothing they bring is of great value. Right? But something like that is


Mickey Gordon  13:09

Well, I mean, even if like, you know, one time our DJ had his cell phone stolen. That’s right, brand new iPhone got stolen off the table. Yeah, sitting outside, he was smoking weed. He just didn’t even notice it, and it disappeared. So these things happen. And you know, good people and bad people come in all shapes and sizes. They don’t have to be from foreign countries. And sometimes as much as we’d love to say that everyone that’s at the resort with us as our friend or even our family in some cases not everybody is so that’s what insurance is for enough of that PSA, guys, just make sure you pick that up now what are we doing for Halloween?


Mallory Gordon  13:42

I am so excited about this. Okay, everyone Listen up. So we are homebound for Halloween. Right? And what better thing could we possibly do virtually is participate and swinging down on event. It’s a virtual Halloween party. A virtual Halloween.


Mickey Gordon  14:00

An actual fucking Halloween. It’s legit. You and I in a room virtually with everybody. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  14:04

right. So we’re dressing up. She’s got game. She’s got prizes.


Mickey Gordon  14:09

We have prizes. We’re giving away a rodeo we


Mallory Gordon  14:12

  1. We as president is giving away a yandy gift certificate and a bunch of other people are going to be there like sapphic swingers and swingers help, are all going to be helping helping to host this event. So now I have to figure out which of my many many costumes I’m gonna get to wear. And maybe I’ll even do a costume change. I don’t know.


Mickey Gordon  14:31

Maybe we should go to like spirit Halloween before Saturday. And just like, do something different. Crazy.


Mallory Gordon  14:36

Have you seen my costume closet though? Dude, like,


Mickey Gordon  14:39

I know, but you’re gonna need something you can wear in front of humans.


Mallory Gordon  14:42

I Oh, well, they’re swingers.


Mickey Gordon  14:45

Oh, that’d be fun.


Mallory Gordon  14:46

Okay, okay. Good point though. Good point I probably should toe the line between like, flooding and team.


Mickey Gordon  14:52

Are you still gonna like dance naked for me wearing a Chewbacca mask?


Mallory Gordon  14:55

If you really want me to I do anything for you, but I can’t make the noise.


Mickey Gordon  14:59

Oh, yeah. Again, I just got to rub it the right way.


Mallory Gordon  15:02

No, I just sounds like I’m gurgling Listerine


Mickey Gordon  15:05

that’s just fucked up. Ah, God. So hey, let’s talk about what else we’ve been up to before we bounce out of here and get on with the rest of the ghosts of swingers pass.


Mallory Gordon  15:16

We’ve been doing really normal shit lately, like, you know, family work dogs, you know, trying to stay sane. Right.


Mickey Gordon  15:22

I think it’s what everybody’s doing in the lifestyle right now. No, we did. super amazing friends come down and visit which is pretty cool.


Mallory Gordon  15:28

Yes, yeah. Ah, God, I love those people. And I miss them so much.


Mickey Gordon  15:34

Well, the thing is, you guys are going to hear from these guys. In less than two weeks. Because this episode is late. It’s late because it was my birthday. It’s late because I got fucking drunk on my birthday. And it was not a good time to record.


Mallory Gordon  15:46

Yeah, it’s been you know, we’ve been heavy on the tasks. Yeah, and the honey dues and the two dues and all that stuff. So. And the first round of this didn’t work out all that great. So that’s a


Mickey Gordon  15:59

second recording.


Mallory Gordon  16:00

Yeah, it doesn’t. We’re very fortunate doesn’t happen too often. But


Mickey Gordon  16:03

no, it doesn’t. But you know, what I love about this is that this next episode that’s coming out while we’re at Hito. So this episode is going to drop is actually with Derek and Jess and these are our friends from the beautiful, beautiful state of Iowa who came down and visited us just a couple weeks ago. And that this was we recorded this last year after the February rascals trip, which was their virgin trip to Hito and they were so prolific and so amazing, and so friendly, and so outgoing and gregarious and just really ate up everything that Hito had to offer. So we thought hey, we’re gonna do this episode with them and then COVID hit and then we felt like assholes because we didn’t want to talk about like a party with people yeah,


Mallory Gordon  16:45

it seemed vastly inappropriate to put something out there that you know painted this it really was a beautiful picture watching them embrace the the spirits and the mind body soul of the resort and just go for it and have a high level of communication and and get closer to each other. It was just so fucking beautiful to see. But yeah, you’re right. It felt wrong to release it. Right after all of the shit started hitting the fan.


Mickey Gordon  17:11

Well, I personally would watch Jesse’s cereal.


Mallory Gordon  17:14

I mean, just what wouldn’t we watch her Do either of them. Come on?


Mickey Gordon  17:20

Well, I mean, I don’t Derek can go you can watch him eat cereal watch. Now of course Jess, if you’re listening to this, I would I’ve got like a list of things that come before you eating cereal but


Mallory Gordon  17:32

all right, you know you have to share though. Oh, damn it, you are a swinger you have to suck it.


Mickey Gordon  17:39

Anyway, but hey, we did find a really cool bar for an upcoming meet and greet that we’ve got and like kind of we’re bouncing around in our head that’s


Mallory Gordon  17:45

true. We’re looking at you know Fingers crossed students that they may be in the spring Yeah, cuz this bar has a pool right does


Mickey Gordon  17:51

wait it’s on the river. Oh, bad as it’s in Sanford, Florida, which is just outside of Orlando a little north. So it’s kind of it’s you know, I think we could pull a crowd from Jacksonville in Orlando.


Mallory Gordon  18:01

Well, it is conveniently located because the eye for AIDS, it’s like right there, which is mean, you know, highway thoroughfare, whatever you want to call it, you know, through this area. So I think this is probably going to be the one so fingers crossed that sometime this spring.


Mickey Gordon  18:17

It’ll be announced really friendly owner i think you know, let us know if you’d be interested in attending a party here in the States. Yeah. thrown up by yours truly. Mickey Mallory. That’s us.


Mallory Gordon  18:27

Yeah, I would love that. I’m, I’m really, really happy. They were open. Like it’s hard when you engage people like that, and like they’re gonna be swingers where we know how to behave. But we just, we don’t want to lie to you. Right? And that’s not easily received. Well,


Mickey Gordon  18:40

it turns out the owner of the bar used to be a owner of a lifestyle club. So dude, like how


Mallory Gordon  18:45

like jackpot?


Mickey Gordon  18:46

Yeah, right. I tripped over this shit too. So


Mallory Gordon  18:48

we don’t have to explain anything.


Mickey Gordon  18:51

This is great. All right. Well, hey, guys, let’s talk about this episode, and we’ll get on with it. But this is the ghost of swingers past. So what are we talking about with that?


Mallory Gordon  19:00

So, again, we have hundreds of 1000s of experiences in our life, and depending on how we view them, sometimes we make decisions based on those experiences that determine how we interact and future engagements have similar right. So unfortunately, it’s natural default human behavior that a lot of that memory is stored with negative experiences because the red flag is much more visible or much more tangible, then then maybe some of the softer stuff because when you have the green flag it’s it’s warm and fuzzy but it doesn’t resonate as hard as that red red flag does.


Mickey Gordon  19:40

And I tell you, what resonated for me is when the idea for this episode came up because I had this thing that I thought would be really good for this episode and it we had a hard time putting it together really didn’t gel. And then I was talking to a listener of ours who’s also a friend of ours that will call composite God and Okay, you know, composite God had this other idea that That was it was fucking magical, which I’m not surprised because he’s a genius. And when he mentioned it in which was was really just kind of he said goes to swingers past and I thought about how haunted I am by some of the things that we’ve had happen. And I thought, wow, being haunted by my past is so negative, but it’s so pivotal. There’s so many things I do and don’t do because of the things I’m haunted by. We need to talk about this.


Mallory Gordon  20:27

Yeah, no, and I’m with you. And, you know, a lot of those obviously aren’t going to be great experiences, some of them good. But I think it’s very interesting to take a pause and stock in how we’ve interacted since then, and it’s not really something we’ve done a lot of,


Mickey Gordon  20:45

No, it isn’t, so I’m looking forward to doing this. I think it’s gonna be a blast. So we’re gonna jump in. Mallory is going to tell you guys how to find us before we jump into this but make sure you check out casual toys calm and make sure on Saturday on Halloween, you join us was swinging down under


Mallory Gordon  21:03

that gonna be a hoot? Yes, please join us and I forgot to mention that it’s completely free look for it on social free. Just go sign up get the link and come party with us. Please. We’d love to have a an amazing Saturday night with you guys. Put your


Mickey Gordon  21:16

crotch goblins to bed and join us swinging down under sabich swingers and swingers help


Mallory Gordon  21:21

and many, many more.


Mickey Gordon  21:22

Good times. I know you guys are two cats and kittens. Oh, there we go. Again. No more jokes. tell everybody where to find us.


Mallory Gordon  21:29

Oh, you’re awfully fucking bossy.


Mickey Gordon  21:31

Wait till we get to the bedroom. Okay,


Mallory Gordon  21:33

I’m doing it now. All right, we’re casual swinger everywhere. You can find us a casual want to send us a message podcast at casual swinger. We’re on social media as well. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. And if you’d like to check out our dating profiles Hey, you can find us on doublethink nation sD csls and quiver and Cassidy


Mickey Gordon  21:55

Alright, let’s get spooky the ghost of Christmas Past you’ve been listening to casual swinger. Welcome back everybody to casual swinger. My name is.


Mallory Gordon  22:22

My name is the bride of Nikki Stein.


Mickey Gordon  22:25

Oh, is that who you aren’t?


Mallory Gordon  22:26

I don’t know. No.


Mickey Gordon  22:27

I’m just now I just want you to have her hair. Like the whole Bride of Frankenstein here.


Mallory Gordon  22:30

That’d be that would be pretty cool. But I think it takes a lot of Aqua net.


Mickey Gordon  22:34

I would like that a lot better than bad mom jokes.


Mallory Gordon  22:36

Ah, but I have one more.


Mickey Gordon  22:40

Just to bring that Oh, they’re


Mallory Gordon  22:42

so cute this year and I’m stuck on the vampire ones. Sorry. All right. Here we go. What do Dracula’s girlfriend any professional boxer have in common?


Mickey Gordon  22:53

They both don’t know when to do what they’re told.


Mallory Gordon  22:57

No. They both get down for the count. All right, no more


Mickey Gordon  23:07

chance I put my dick in a vampire’s mouth.


Mallory Gordon  23:09

I think that’s gambling.


Mickey Gordon  23:11

Right. Going down on the count, huh? No, I’ve seen what those Black and Decker Packer records look like. Like I knew better. Like even like when I was in high school. We know


Mallory Gordon  23:21

like the girls with braces. Oh, yeah. You know, it’s dangerous. But you nice. Yeah. No, I think you still did it. At least twice.


Mickey Gordon  23:27

The only bad thing that ever happened to me with metal was getting my dick stuck in your purse. And that wasn’t my fault. That was Rachel’s fault. Yeah, that’s my take up in your purse because I felt


Mallory Gordon  23:37

you were such a baby about it. Like you didn’t bruise it didn’t even break the skin and like you wind for the rest of the week. It was


Mickey Gordon  23:45

awful. It was it was literally it was worse than surgery is terrible. Now guys left me to trauma


Mallory Gordon  23:51

false trauma.


Mickey Gordon  23:52

No, no fake news. This is real.


Mallory Gordon  23:54

No, it was terrible. Anywho. Let’s get into the meat of our conversation. today. We are talking about ghosts of swingers past.


Mickey Gordon  24:01

Yeah, so how does the things that happened to us? How does that that feeling or that emotion of what’s happened to us in the past, affect the lifestyle in particular, because, you know, it’s pretty easy to say that I hit myself in the thumb every time I try to drive in a nail. So I’m gonna pay somebody to do that for no one. But when it comes to interpersonal relationships and things like that, it is probably a little bit different.


Mallory Gordon  24:29

Absolutely. I mean, there’s, again, through through our lives, we have all these experiences that culminate to, you know, ultimately decisions we make moving forward based on whether we classify them as good or bad. And it’s like this, like a fork in the road. Right,


Mickey Gordon  24:46

right. And like I just said, like hitting myself with a hammer is probably a negative experience. But I think negative experiences by and large, they’re what really resonate with us and fear resonates with us. It’s one insurance companies use it to sell. It’s why the media uses it to get our attention so they can sell advertising. They see the scariest shit you can think of Oh my god, people are dying, oh my god, but it’s gonna be important. Yeah. It’s fear, uncertainty and doubt. Yeah, we kind of respond to that we’re conditioned to respond to that.


Mallory Gordon  25:17

Well, I mean, it’s process of elimination, right? Because we know this evil or that evil or that this bad thing. So we navigate ourselves to avoid those, even though we don’t know exactly what the other influence may be. Or the other impact may be until we hit a wall.


Mickey Gordon  25:32

Yeah, that’s, that seems to be pretty common. And and I think that we constantly tell people in the I know we do on the show, if you’ve been listening to it for longer than 60 seconds, that the lifestyle and real life aren’t that far apart. I think in a lot of people’s heads, there are as a matter of fact, I was talking to one of my doctors, just the other day, who I became friends with, and I love the guy. But, you know, he kind of referred to swingers in key parties. And he started talking about key parties because he was having somebody else. And they brought up key parties. And it’s like, why does every vanilla bring up the most audacious thing we can ever think of? Or have ever heard of? Like, that’s why swapping?


Mallory Gordon  26:11

Yeah, it’s the level of exposure, right? There must be what what they have at their disposal, or what they’ve been privy to whether that’s a movie or a book or hearsay, a lot of it’s hearsay, right? I mean, I can’t I don’t know anyone who’s ever been to


Mickey Gordon  26:30

a party either. I mean, well, maybe we could look for parents and see. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  26:35

actually, I’ll ask my dad. Oh, totally asked my dad, if he ever did keyboard. He’s back in the day. Because that, you know, key parties are synonymous with the 70s. swingers. Right? Yeah. Well, I


Mickey Gordon  26:43

mean, probably talk to somebody that you know, did the whole, like Plato’s retreat thing or whatever. It’d be pretty neat to catch up. Totally cool. So.


Mallory Gordon  26:52

So it’s kind of a living, living learning thing, right? What we’re talking about is how we decide which path or fork in the road that we’re going to take.


Mickey Gordon  27:01

Yeah, and I think that we try to repeat successes, we try to avoid failures. And I think that’s why we remember the negative things and the positive things. I think we just kind of hope, hey, that went well. Last time, well, maybe we’ll give it a go again. But do do we take these negative experiences and kind of let them shape our future interactions? Or do we just keep them in the back of our mind? I mean, how do you how do you approach it and our relationship? Because I think you and I approach it differently? And in ways


Mallory Gordon  27:29

we do. I’m definitely a little more on the cautious side. If I know a previous experience, that was negative had happened. I’m absolutely going to base my decision on that. Is that fair? Is that right? Probably not. I thought a lot about this over the last, you know, few weeks is were discussing the subject matter. And I think I could absolutely identify loss opportunity based on that one, literally one experience I’ve had, that didn’t turn out in a good way. And I identified that as a red flag. And, you know, I don’t think I can actually apply that across the board. You know, I’m absolutely missing opportunities, because I’m not putting myself out there based on that one singular experience,


Mickey Gordon  28:17

right. And it’s funny, because I tend to try to put the bad stuff behind me a little more, and put myself out there again. And so sometimes I do get kind of slamming the door more often, again, sure.


Mallory Gordon  28:30

And I’m like, dumb as you already hit your thumb with a hammer. Yeah. And why would you do that,


Mickey Gordon  28:35

but I have 10 fingers. Like, give it another go. And I think that, you know, we’ve seen this, we’re going to talk about this as we progress here. Some of the actual things that have happened to us that have shaped the way we behave. But I think for me, I tend to try to ignore the negatives and focus on the positives and say, maybe it’ll be better this time, maybe it’ll get better.


Mallory Gordon  28:55

Well, and it’s the same thing for me with the positives, because then I’ve identified that as high potential like, you know, high level of, you know, pleasurable or outcome are a great


Mickey Gordon  29:07

example of that is the first time we ever played the first time you ever Oh, it was like, it was


Mallory Gordon  29:11

epic. It was absolutely epic. I’ve been chasing the dragon. Yeah, it was amazing. And I thought that was the whole lifestyle. It was gonna be like, but conversely, have you ever thought about the the people that are complete newbies that go out and their first experiences? Awful? And what happens to them after the fact like, do they abandon this venture altogether? Well, we’re


Mickey Gordon  29:36

ironically enough, we literally just had that conversation with a listener on one of the lifestyle dating sites. Just this week, actually, where, you know, a friend from Texas Yes, I’m talking about you, buddy. That didn’t have a great experience. And it was just a soft swap experience, but it wasn’t great. And, you know, it wasn’t necessarily what I liked about his approach. And the reason why I was so quick to respond to him was he really was positive about the lifestyle and their role in the lifestyle and where they were. And that’s awesome. He acknowledged that they were new, and that, you know, maybe, you know, it’s gonna there’s gonna be some training wheels. And and the only issue we had was communicating with the other couple because he didn’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings. And he didn’t want to put anybody out. He just didn’t want to do that again. And I was like, you know, I really appreciate that you’re staying positive, you’re not blaming something you maybe don’t understand completely, because you’re new in the lifestyle. And you’re just trying to make sure that you communicate clearly and positively with other people, even if the answer’s no. And I’m like, Man, this guy’s gonna make a great lifestyle or because absolutely wishon was spot the fuck off? Wow, I


Mallory Gordon  30:48

bet he has a high level of emotional intelligence.


Mickey Gordon  30:50

I’m I’m willing to bet that he does based on the, you know, additional conversation we’ve had, but you know, so let’s talk about where we go with these experiences, right? I mean, would you change your behavior long term, over one negative or positive experience?


Mallory Gordon  31:09

I want to say no. But I know I have in the past. And this is something I’ve thought a lot about. And I, I want to take pause and stuck in a situation and re evaluate it. Because I’m, I make decisions very quickly, especially in that environment. And when it’s negative. I don’t dwell on it. It’s pushed to the side. But I tend to not revisit it. So I think that’s a personal shortcoming that I have now. For example, the single guy that we hooked up with for the first time, and we didn’t even have sex. We met it seemed to go Okay, there were there were a few signs that maybe this wasn’t it, but we were going to I was going to venture into it anyway. And it turned into a total shit show. The guy totally went off the deep end, he started saying awful things about you. And you didn’t you guys didn’t even know each other, and then turned into the stalker ask kite type of human. And it just kept drilling me and telling you these awful things. And I, I’m not gonna lie, I flew off the handle. It’s like, Don’t you ever contact me again, this is absolutely inappropriate. I’ve asked you nicely to stop. And I’m blocking you because I’m just done. This is insane. And if this is what it’s gonna be like, I’m not interested. And I abandon the the hotline single guy thing for years. Like it was really a long time many, many years. You know, it’s funny, because that whole situation, we’re kind of progressing now into some of the experiences that have shaped the path we’ve taken. And I think that was the first really major experience that made an impact on you negatively. Yeah. And I think why I took it to heart when I invest myself in something. And it doesn’t matter what it is, it could be work related, or kids you lifestyle. I’m in I’m in 100%, I’m all about new experiences. I’m completely open minded, and how all sometimes try things twice, just for good measure. And that that, that totally turned me off it put a sour taste in my mouth. And it took me a long time to even have the ability to revisit the idea of it.


Mickey Gordon  33:26

Well, there were red flags too. So one of the things that we want to make sure we do here is when we talk about these ghosts, and whether they haunt us or not, and this one definitely haunted us for a few years at least at haunted Mallory, which by proxy haunted me is what could we have done better? So this guy we met him? He had excellent validations it was I think we met him on SLS. He had quite a few really positive you know reviews are you know, people have a lot of money. Yeah, and really nice things to say about him. We met in a public place that wasn’t super loud. I think it was a Buffalo Wild Wings. Yeah. Some wings just to shoot the shell Yeah, showed up dressed like the unabomber. He was in sweats and like a zip up hoodie. And he didn’t come from the gym,


Mallory Gordon  34:12

you know? And I can forgive that because I don’t know what his you know, economic standing is like maybe I was dressing up. I didn’t know I didn’t want to make any flash judgments. And based on our conversation, everything went well. Now he did make it known that he was interested in in, you know, a hand on the knee and and the shoulder stuff, which I’m still conflicted. It’s all about the environment and my comfort level. Like I’m still don’t know how comfortable I am with that interaction so soon during the first meeting, and I know that’s super weird.


Mickey Gordon  34:49

Well, I think that’s part of what makes us casual. swingers. Yeah, we really don’t rush into situations. But I think what we could have done better in that situation is when you have a When red flags start to pile up, and they pile up early bail, right? There’s plenty of fish in the sea. Just because he’s not one for us. Doesn’t mean he’s bad. He’s just not for us. But


Mallory Gordon  35:12

here’s why. Yeah, here’s where I was. In that moment. I didn’t know what those red flags were what they meant I was trying to be said you were still really new. Oh, I was still very, very new. So I was trying to be as open as possible. Because I didn’t know what I didn’t want at that point. Does that make sense? So anywho moving on. What about the SARS girl?


Mickey Gordon  35:33

Oh, yeah. Well, and that’s just it. So that’s not


Mallory Gordon  35:35

like a an inappropriate joke. She gave us like, the worst bronchitis we’ve ever had.


Mickey Gordon  35:40

Yeah, like mad cow. Like she made us so sick. Yeah, well, and it’s funny that our first two like tragic experiences were with singles when, you know, we have friends in the lifestyle that don’t do singles at all, because they see singles are single for a reason. And we’ve had great experiences with single since then. But this particular single female, which I blame you for it, because you stole it from another couple.


Mallory Gordon  36:02

I was feeling very audacious. And you were and this girl, I didn’t really steal her, I rescued her.


Mickey Gordon  36:09

We did in this case, everything we could have done, we were at a running of the unicorns event at taboo in Baltimore. And it was a great time she was dressed the part she was in the right color to be a unicorn. And so


Mallory Gordon  36:21

what’s amazing, and she’s so much finished dance with smart, like, smart enough in that environment, because we’ve all been drinking pretty heavily that like we could actually have a conversation so that like it just checked all the boxes. It was so much fun.


Mickey Gordon  36:36

And you asked her point blank, Are you married? Or were in playing alone? Or are you single? And she said, I’m single not married? Not with anybody now, looking for a good time. You were just like cha ching? Yeah. Then everything went south from there from her forcing us to play Britney Spears on repeat in the room to her husband calling it three o’clock in the morning on speed dial.


Mallory Gordon  37:02

Yeah, she knows her neighbor or something. And I think we’ve told the story before. Yes, it’s something that resonates because I felt very betrayed. You know, and we just met. So I don’t know that I actually have a leg to stand on. But I did ask her point blank, because


Mickey Gordon  37:16

that is something that matters to me, because we’ve talked about this before. So we can save the listener or listeners, if there’s two of them out there, that we can save them the details of the story and get to what do we think we could have done differently? And how did it shape our behavior after that?


Mallory Gordon  37:33

We didn’t approach single girls for a very long time. We kind of let them come to us organically.


Mickey Gordon  37:39

We have an approach one since Oh,


Mallory Gordon  37:41

I have.


Mickey Gordon  37:43

Yeah, I had really hasn’t. It really hasn’t. Oh,


Mallory Gordon  37:46

no, I have Yeah, a couple.


Mickey Gordon  37:49

Yeah, you have time. Oh, but it has not been a couple thing. And that’s not I don’t think it’s because, you know, we have some sort of fear of them. It just really hasn’t materialized in an organic way, which is kind of how we play.


Mallory Gordon  38:05

Yeah, and you know, that’s probably not the best tactic. If that was a, you know, driver for us. And something we wanted, if we wanted it more, we would pursue it more. And that’s kind of where I’m at with it,


Mickey Gordon  38:14

you got to go after it. You can’t just wait for good things to come to you in this life, especially when it comes to girls. If you’re a couple searching out a single female, you are going to kiss a lot of frogs, you’re going to you’re going to make a lot of bets that don’t pan out, you’re going to go places where nothing happens, you’re going to spend money on dates that don’t don’t pan out it. It’s just kind of what happens when you go fish and you spend a lot of money on luers.


Mallory Gordon  38:35

So do you want to talk about that super hot couple?


Mickey Gordon  38:39

You know what? I do think?


Mallory Gordon  38:43

Is that too much? Because I won’t call you out? If that’s the case?


Mickey Gordon  38:46

No, I really don’t. I don’t have any issues with this. It is a very negative experience for me, personally, and because it’s very recent,


Mallory Gordon  38:58

I was gonna say it’s recent. So and it’s still


Mickey Gordon  39:01

it’s still a little raw. And it doesn’t happen very often. But I think it’s important that our listeners know that it happens. And I’m by no means calling me the best of us in the swinger space. We’re in the content creator space, but it does happen to all of us. It happens to the best of us, it happens to the worst of us. And what we’re talking about here is we this incredibly super hot couple, Derek and Jess that we talked about in lead in came down to see us and we’re friends with these guys were legitimately friends with them. I enjoy them stupid shit with them. Like I


Mallory Gordon  39:34

want to be friends forever just to show them amazing humans. And


Mickey Gordon  39:39

it really is a perfect storm right? They really have they check all the boxes for us which is really unusual.


Mallory Gordon  39:47

lightning in a bottle. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  39:49

And as beautiful and interesting and as a CPO sexual. She’s really smart. She’s a marketing person like I am. There’s just so many things. About her that check all the boxes. And then when it came down to it, I, you know, the bald Avenger was like, Hey, I’m taking the night off. And I was like, really? Dude, I mean, you know, there’s a problem in a room, when you’re, you know, everyone’s having sex and interacting, when someone starts yelling at their dick. And that’s pretty much what I did. I was like, you son of a bitch, you’re gonna leave me now, you one eyed piece of shit.


Mallory Gordon  40:28

So I felt I felt for you so much. And I knew there was nothing psychologically that I could do to help you. I mean, I did the traditional things that you know, in my mind, I should be doing I came over I, I was dressing you and kissing you and trying to get you to like, physically and mentally relax at the same time. What am I yeah, I blew you, I wrote you a little bit. And I just knew that there were some obstacles or some block there that you and I had no control over. So the only thing I could do was temper the situation and make it more social. I


Mickey Gordon  41:07

wish I knew what it was. And so when we talk about ghosts, guys, we’re really talking directly to you here. Because once it gets in your head, and you’re haunted by what happened last time, it will happen again. And it does have any did happen to me again. And I’m not gonna lie, guys, I’m carrying around a haunting here, you know, because I know, I’m gonna see him again. I’m gonna see him again in a week.


Mallory Gordon  41:35

So how do you feel you’re gonna react to the situation, right? Because we’re talking about how negative influences especially impact or decisions we make. What do you think your next steps are you going to avoid this situation because of how it


Mickey Gordon  41:50

happened. There’s no circumstances in which I avoid the sirt the sit the situation, or them because I enjoy their company so much. I love to hear that. Thank you. And I enjoy being around them so much. And being with her so much. I mean, there’s, without being graphic, because it’s not what we do on the show. You know, I really enjoyed being with her. So and hopefully, there was some part of her that enjoyed it, too. But I can just tell you that I obviously don’t want it to happen again. So what do I do about that? How do I, you know, exercise that demon and that ghost that’s hanging over my head. And the way is honestly, just to try and stay positive. And make sure that they know that I appreciate them and I want to be around them and with them and that I want to get past it, whatever it is in my head. I got to get over it. And it’s unique to them. Because the last like five times that hasn’t happened to me. I don’t know why not? Okay, you know, I


Mallory Gordon  42:45

have a running theory, I think is the it’s high stakes. You know, it is lightning in a bottle. And it’s so damn rare that there’s maybe some underlying mental pressure, or, I mean, you definitely are a pleaser, 100% of the time. Like, that’s just who you are. And I mean, I think it was just a new experience. And you were We were figuring each other out. And he wanted so badly for her to have a good time,


Mickey Gordon  43:13

I think is a guy, you know, when you really want to be a rock star, and you really want to rock some girls world that just gets in your head. And she even looked at me at one point and said, get out of your head. Oh, and she knew what I was going through. And that’s one of the things that I adore about those guys is that they are really emotionally intelligent. They knew it was a matter of fact, I messaged Jay, from average swingers. That night, right after I went down, I messaged Jay, because I trust him as much as I do. And I was like, Dude, this was so bad. And he laughed and laughed and laughed. at me he just he laughed because he’s like, I get it. I’m with you like been there done that. And he tried to talk me out of my own head because a great friend, but it was just such a thing, right? And any suggestions for getting over it? Honestly, as a person I can tell you getting over it means literally Forget it, put it behind you. And focus on the relationship and the friendship because if they matter to you enough that it’s in your head and you’re worried about not pleasing them the effort that you go to maybe too much that you won’t actually please them because your company pleases them your friendship pleases them, and other parts of your body can please them. And eventually you will get over it that this too will pass. Yeah. And that’s important to remember.


Mallory Gordon  44:38

Also, I can bring pompoms if that helps


Mickey Gordon  44:40

us those at the airport.


Mallory Gordon  44:42

I use them everywhere. I really do. I wish I was lying Now let’s


Mickey Gordon  44:47

talk about something that really scared the shit out of you is a German Oh my


Mallory Gordon  44:50

God, this was awful. We’re going to talk about the the condom scare.


Mickey Gordon  44:54

Yeah, the condom break.


Mallory Gordon  44:55

Oh my gosh. So


Mickey Gordon  44:56

we were playing with a couple that we had played with all lot a lot like we were we were good friends for a couple of years. And you know, they live pretty far away. But we made we made the trip to hang out with these guys. And pretty much every time we hung out we played because she and I got along great. You and he got along great. Yeah, based on your squeals and were you? It was a good time we had a good thing going. Yeah, it was a pretty good thing. But as it turned out, and what we realized over time is that he wasn’t a good guy. He wasn’t being good to her. He wasn’t honest,


Mallory Gordon  45:28

jack kind of felt duped, at like at the end of everything. But what really started that that snowball effect with the downturn of that relationship was that during intercourse, you know, there What is this intercourse thing? You were fucking Oh, yeah. Whoa, okay. I was getting hammered. Yeah, my his cock. Yes. And it was it was very intense. And there was a lot going on and the condom broke. And I think we both realized about the same time that it broke. And as I was rotating over, I believe I was going from all my back to like a, like a semi doggy position. And I heard the rustling and because I get so wet, like he put it in and it took a few strokes. And I was like, Oh my god, he doesn’t have condom on. And I flipped the fuck out. I was not okay, this is not okay. Like Geez. Like, holy crap. What do I do now? Because we’ve it’s never been discussed. I’m not one to do bareback. It’s just not. It’s just not my style. Yep. And can’t


Mickey Gordon  46:37

as an important side note, guys, because I this is one of the most common questions we get about playing with couples in the lifestyle is what do we do if condom breaks? And the most important thing you can do is first off, you know, just like being on a train, pull the cord stop the train. Yes. And that for me on the other side of the room when I heard you know, at the time, I don’t think we were married. You know, my girlfriend freaking out. I went, Okay, there’s a problem. And I stopped what I was doing and turned around. And, and he acted like it was no big deal.


Mallory Gordon  47:10

No, that’s where it was extremely disappointing. He was he was kind of shrugging it off, like, well, I just assumed it was okay. Because it already happened in like, no reasonable world. Is that an acceptable answer? Yeah, this is below, we’re gonna stop because I’m just feeling very uncomfortable now. And what was happening inside my head? Was that progressive freak out? Like you got madder and madder? I did? I did. Because I can’t take or use contraceptives of any kind that are hormone related. So I don’t have an IUD. I don’t take oral birth control. I just fucking can’t my body says no. You know, I have underlying conditions that prevent me from doing that. Yeah. So not only is that a factor because he was unclipped. But we knew what they played with other people. And it’s, I mean, you just assume that they don’t use the same amount of protection, because that’s probably the safer bet even if they do, right, and you get regularly tested, but now I’m completely exposed. So now what does that mean? That means systematically testing every two to three months over the next 12 to 16 or 18 months,


Mickey Gordon  48:16

well into the theme of what we’re talking about here today. That’s ghosts and demons piling on each other. Your fear is building with man. I mean, what could this be? And so what do you do in that situation? It is all stop. Okay. And remember, in the lifestyle, we only go as fast as the slowest person. So if one person is pulling the all stop, rip cord, everything stops, and you say, Hey, this is not okay. We’re done. Yeah, we’re not going to start again. We’re not going to go Oh, it’s okay. Put the condom back on. Because now I don’t trust you.


Mallory Gordon  48:48

Yeah. And I mean, logically, when you look at the situation, it’s already transpired. And if you put a condom on, does it really change anything but I couldn’t get past it?


Mickey Gordon  48:57

You know, you’re not wanting anymore. Now, you


Mallory Gordon  48:59

know, again, I felt betrayed and we never played with them again.


Mickey Gordon  49:02

No, we never ever ever saw them. I


Mallory Gordon  49:03

could never get past that just because it was so the way he approached, it was so blahs say, to me I was like, I don’t trust you to have my best interests in mind. So I think this is over.


Mickey Gordon  49:15

You know, one of the best things that came out of and I think it was Derek and I they were talking about this while they were down here is the comfort level that comes from knowing that the guy across from you would know I don’t want to say defend because this we don’t come into those situations very often in the lifestyle, but has the same level of, of of care and not caring, feeding, but just he he cares enough to look out for your person the same way he would look out for his own. And we had that you know that I had no compunction about walking away from you in public and knowing that there was somebody there that cared about you enough to look out for you. Yeah,


Mallory Gordon  49:54

and every other experience and how our interactions told That story verbatim. I mean, product clubs, music events, different outdoor, large public venue events, like a there was a level of trust that was established. And it’s really sad. But from that one moment out all of that crumbled in front of me.


Mickey Gordon  50:18

Yeah. And so that particular ghosts haunted us so much that we didn’t play for a year.


Mallory Gordon  50:24

That’s because I was scared because I, you know, I wanted to go through the testing phase. So in my mind, the most responsible thing I can do is now play and continue


Mickey Gordon  50:33

to get tested,


Mallory Gordon  50:35

and continue to get tested and just work through the site, psychological ramifications of it. And I’m sure many, many people out there have had worse experiences. I’m probably a little neurotic. But, you know, it is what it is. That’s my story. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  50:49

And we’re still friends with his ex for what it’s worth out there. She’s a good girl, and not the lifestyle anymore. Now. Yeah, she’s wonderful. Let’s talk about positive stuff. Speaking of good, let’s get past fucking it. All right. So what’s one great thing that that has changed the way we look at the lifestyle and kind of how we roll?


Mallory Gordon  51:12

So, I mean, everyone has different schools of thought on how they approach the lifestyle. But for me, the connecting with people on a deeper level, making friends and lifestyle has been a huge positive influence, or like, I know, just because we’re all swingers doesn’t mean we’re all going to fuck each other. And that’s okay. But it does mean that I can be my most authentic self in front of them because I don’t have to shelter or hide that part of me. So that’s, that’s definitely a positive that’s come out of that. And then it’s like, we have this whole cheering section right with our swinger friends when we’re like, this date went great. We played with this couple. Like it’s a very supportive and wonderful environment. And we all have our quirks. We’re all a little strange, right? Yeah. And we’re a little celebrated for it, or mocked openly if they’re really our friends.


Mickey Gordon  52:04

Yeah. And I think it’s a little easier for us. Given that, you know, we really haven’t made any, anything about the lifestyle itself. part of how we sustain our family. Yeah, so it’s just friends and yeah, ships. Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  52:22

And the integration of the swinger friends into our vanilla lives, like a lot of our kids like, they’re her swinger friends that we’ve met in the last lifestyle that they essentially called her aunts and uncles are like,


Mickey Gordon  52:32

yeah, they know.


Mallory Gordon  52:34

It’s crazy. Yeah, I would not have predicted that. And I love it. I love it so much weird


Mickey Gordon  52:40

now that our adult kids kind of hit on or some of our friends is


Mallory Gordon  52:43

a little still fucking awkward. I find that unacceptable.


Mickey Gordon  52:48

It’s like, No, no, no, that one’s mine go away.


Mallory Gordon  52:49

Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, you have to go get your own. Find your own friends.


Mickey Gordon  52:53

Yeah. I do think though, that there are people out there that have chosen to monetize what they do and their lifestyle. And I wonder for them, if it’s just like it is for us, if there’s that, if they have like, a separation of church and state, like the stuff they do for money and the stuff they do for fun. I don’t know, because we don’t do it. But so you probably have to listen to somebody else or talk to somebody that does this sort of thing. But for us, I think a huge positive is those relationships and the authentic trust that we’ve built with a lot of those people. And honestly, with a lot of you, because you listen to what we do. And you come back and you share with us your journey you share with us your stories. And honestly, when we talk about ghosts of the past, they make us want to share more with you. Because we feel like you’re being honest with us and we want to do it too.


Mallory Gordon  53:45

Absolutely. That makes it that literally gives me the easy button when when someone’s being vulnerable or completely open about their experiences and their feelings. It inspires me to do the same. Now granted, I know not everyone’s gonna agree or see my perspective and a lot of things that that that’s totally fine. But it’s it’s definitely an inspiration, something I would have never guessed if we had this conversation six years ago and said, This is what we’d be doing in 2020. I would have laughed a little I’m not gonna lie, because it’s not like me. I don’t like the spotlight. I don’t like putting myself out there for a very wide audience. I’m not a public speaker. Like not by nature. It is something that I’ve benefited from from doing the podcast with a better it’s noticed that insane, I would not have imagined that me six years ago would have probably passed out


Mickey Gordon  54:35

you know, it’s funny because today everything is remote. Everything is zoom, or Google meet or you know, GoToMeeting or WebEx or whatever. And datings no different so another ghost. That’s actually been a really good one. It’s been our little Casper the Friendly Ghost is, you know, our friends in Phoenix kind of forced us to do video dates.


Mallory Gordon  54:57

Yeah, they were the first they weren’t Were they were our virgin


Mickey Gordon  55:01

we heard they were thing we give a shit we weren’t we didn’t care, you know to do video dates and we were so glad we did.


Mallory Gordon  55:07

Oh my gosh, no regrets, no regrets no regrets on that. No, it’s fabulous and I adore them and every opportunity we get to talk to them I’m so on board, but it did open the door for us to consider doing that. Especially given the environment and as often as we can. Yeah, cuz I mean, we have friends worldwide down in like, Hey damasks you could connect with them whenever you wine. It was


Mickey Gordon  55:32

pretty amazing. Soon That girl is gonna be working day shift. So we get to talk to them more. Zeki thickie congrats on your new gig, darlin, you know, we’re talking to you. So the last one, I guess I want to throw out there. We’ve said talked about negative experiences. We’ve talked about a couple positive experiences. Should we go back to the well, if we had a positive or negative experience? If it’s positive? Should we keep doing it? If it’s negative? Should we never do it again?


Mallory Gordon  55:54

Well, it’s human nature, you want to repeat the same successes. So I think historically, our behavior is yes, we go back to the well, when we’ve had a positive experience. For me, this is where you and I are a little bit of polar opposite. Like I said earlier, I struggle after having a negative experience to give it a second try. And I’d like to maybe try to do that it really depends on the circumstances and what the this negative event was. But I don’t know that I should have avoided as many second opportunities, especially if it’s with somebody else,


Mickey Gordon  56:27

what are your thoughts on it? Again, as a former educator in some spaces, I always told them in our kids, two points, makes a line three points makes a pattern. So don’t let one experience set your course. You want to get a little more data than that. You want to make sure that okay, this is definitely not what I thought it was going to be. Or this is definitely something else than I thought it was going to be because you might have a situation like you had with the unabomber, or whatever his name was. Yeah, I mean, stupid dumb ass was. And so yeah, that’s a bad experience. But then, you know, you had Tyler, which was a completely fucking different


Mallory Gordon  57:06

side of the spectrum like that. I’m so glad I finally took the leap and did that. No, because it was amazing. You had a great time. Yeah. And I’m like, why did he wait?


Mickey Gordon  57:15

Why did you wait so long to do it again,


Mallory Gordon  57:17

a lot. I had to though I had to go through the motions to work through it.


Mickey Gordon  57:22

So what I’m saying is, it’s not always a great thing, to create some sort of corollary, when there isn’t one, don’t go, Oh, my God, I need, you know, this happened one time. So it’s going to happen every time. It’s not going to be great every time because it’s great the first time, it’s not going to be bad every time because it was bad the first time, you have to actually assemble the data in a meaningful way and make sure that you’re actually assigning the behaviors to where they belong. Some things are our fault. Some things we could have done better. In the case of the single girl, we certainly asked, she lied to us. So there’s nothing we could have done. Now.


Mallory Gordon  57:56

There’s nothing we could have done differently. There’s there’s nothing that could have changed the outcome there. Once we decided to go through with it. Nothing could have changed that.


Mickey Gordon  58:05

Right. And in the case of the broken condom, we did everything we could do. We pulled the ripcord, we stopped and we never went back there because we didn’t trust him anymore. There’s nothing else we could have done. Yeah. So and I don’t, you can’t just go now this is this is never gonna happen again, because that is the worst possible outcome. Now, by the way, all the worst possible outcomes from any of these situations we talked about today, never came to pass, because that’s how fear works. Most of what we fear will never come to pass.


Mallory Gordon  58:31

And I’m really glad we’re in the middle, because it could have gone the other way, right? It’s nothing’s ever guaranteed, you


Mickey Gordon  58:37

know, any of these experiences that we talked about here today on the show, you know, they can impact our daily lives and our family lives. We talked about, you know, having lifestyle friends that have become effectively part of our family that they’re friends, you know, and they know our kids and they know some of our family members. And that’s fine because they know how to act. Yeah, not everybody does. That’s true. So you can’t just go Hey, why don’t you come on over and hang out with the kids you better make sure they know you have kids and they know how to act around vanilla situations. Don’t show up in a thong.


Mallory Gordon  59:07

Yeah, right. down around the house, because I mean, our kids are comfortable in their own nudity, but not yours.


Mickey Gordon  59:15

Now, the last one that I think could certainly be a ghost and a haunting ghost that sticks around for a long time is getting outed.


Mallory Gordon  59:23

That’s a good one


Mickey Gordon  59:24

right or being afraid of getting outed. And so one that we didn’t talk about the last time we recorded this episode, but I thought of when we had to do the rerecord was when one of our youngest son’s friend’s parents Yeah, we talked about hit us up.


Mallory Gordon  59:39

Yeah, that was super awkward. I worked with her.


Mickey Gordon  59:42

Yeah. And she’s like, Oh, my God, we didn’t know that you guys render this? We would have had so much more fun at work.


Mallory Gordon  59:47

Yeah, no, no chance. Yeah, her her kid and my kids were in the same class together for years.


Mickey Gordon  59:52

So pro tip. If you never talk about your kids talking to somebody for the first time in the lifestyle.


Mallory Gordon  59:57

Yeah, they mentioned like, oh, our kids are free. And I went, Oh, shit.


Mickey Gordon  1:00:02

Oh, and we should get the kids together and we can go have private time. Are you stupid?


Mallory Gordon  1:00:06

No. I’m not getting anybody else’s young because in my best cape voice maybe I don’t know.


Mickey Gordon  1:00:14

You do not do in Australia I


Mallory Gordon  1:00:15

cannot I’m not even gonna try cuz it’ll just be miserable. Um, but maybe that wasn’t so when appropriate in other people’s books but to me that hit home and I’m like, it’s that theory I was told very, very young like you don’t shit where you eat. Like it’s very important to me that was way way too close. And I was very uncomfortable with that and that’s more me says worry about me than it does about them I think


Mickey Gordon  1:00:41

oh, I think there’s no question about it. I was I was very turned off by as a matter of fact I said something to him. I told him first of all, you approach this completely wrong. Yes. This is not how you do this. You don’t come at somebody and talk about their children and say we should get together.


Mallory Gordon  1:00:57

Yeah, cuz my first fear is like, if I respond negatively, or in a way that they’re not going to be receptive to, that they The next thing I know, you know, we lived in a small town at the time. Like, all our shits gonna be out there for very


Mickey Gordon  1:01:11

long. And so my response to him was, we will respect your we will respect your position and treated with discretion and we hope you’ll do the same for us. Meaning we’re not going to say anything we’d like you to not say anything kindly please. Fuck off. Yeah. And you know, that’s, that’s a newfound introspection for us. That’s made us in a lot of ways. I think better parents, better friends, better employees. In your case where you become a better public speaker. There’s a lot of things about the lifestyle. And what we’ve done with this podcast that have changed our lives and the way that we approach social situations. I think we’ve become better friends, and more emotionally intelligent through the really advanced levels of relationships we’ve dealt with as well.


Mallory Gordon  1:01:57

Wow, are we going through like the the levels of enlightenment? Is that what you’re saying? I’m


Mickey Gordon  1:02:02

really an I would love to be extra enlightened. Because the last couple of times we played I have not come so I’ve got some buildup going on. All right. I’m


Mallory Gordon  1:02:08

ready. I’ll get my helmet. Yeah, yes.


Mickey Gordon  1:02:10

Okay. Might need a snorkel.


Mallory Gordon  1:02:13

I’m down. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  1:02:14

I got a that’s what’s going on here. Well, so last thing before we get out of here, is there anything that could happen? At least from your perspective, that would make you it would spook you so badly? Because it’s spooky. Spooky, so bad? Yeah, make you want to leave the lifestyle?


Mallory Gordon  1:02:34

It would be very, very little at this point. I mean, we’ve been through, you know, a few bumps in the roads together. I think when there’s a an emotional investment, or if there’s an escalation to where like maybe polyamory comes into play, that I would want to take pause and at least stuck in a situation? I don’t I don’t know. Honestly, I don’t, I don’t foresee anything that could come up that we couldn’t overcome as a couple. Do I see it, you know, a theoretical circumstances where we would take a pause and maybe step away? Sure. Maybe personal family shit happens, you know, someone gets really ill. Or, you know, there’s a big life event in our family that we we just can’t make being in lifestyle priority. We’d never really put that first. It’s just a, it’s just a part of us, you know, we have our core. And that that operates outside of our core, even though we know, deep down, we’re all you and I are both non monogamous period.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:38

Sure. And what you’re getting at there is for us, and this is not for everybody, I realized that there are a lot of people out there in the lifestyle, that the lifestyle is a hobby for them.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:48

Oh, okay. Yeah. And I’ve heard that.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:50

And I’ve heard that a lot. And frankly, if I’m being honest, doesn’t mean that I don’t respect your opinion. But I don’t agree with it. The lifestyle for us is an orientation. It’s who we are.


Mallory Gordon  1:04:01



Mickey Gordon  1:04:01

it’s the lifestyle. We call it the lifestyle because it’s the way we live. It’s not something we do one Friday, a month. And we do it in secret 100 miles from our house. I mean, we’ve done that we did that we had a while and that were kids were younger, and it was more important. So we don’t we totally respect when people do that. But when would we step away from our own orientation? If this is who we are. And anytime something happens in my mind, that is unhealthy for our relationship, because the most important thing is always us. Absolutely. We expect that of the of our friends to be expected. I


Mallory Gordon  1:04:41

think that’s what I was trying to say when I was like and Paulie and I was grasping there. That’s a great way to put it.


Mickey Gordon  1:04:48

I think you’re spot on. I think it’s just two ways of looking at the same ball. And it’s still round, it’s still red, it’s still bounces. It’s the same ball. And I think in this case, anything that we do unhealthy for our relationship would cause us to take pause. That doesn’t change who we are. It doesn’t change orientation. It doesn’t change how we feel. It doesn’t make us not a non monogamous couple,


Mallory Gordon  1:05:10

I just use the double negative.


Mickey Gordon  1:05:12

I know I said not a non lag


Mallory Gordon  1:05:13

on display.


Mickey Gordon  1:05:15

Really, I think another time that is a good time to take a step back is when communication fails between the two of us or the four of us, or the three of us. I agree started flying when someone starts hiding things. Yeah, no secret squirrels, all of those things can lead to things that will come back to haunt you. That’s the sound effect was brought to you by Mallory of casual swinger. I


Mallory Gordon  1:05:43

don’t have the buttons. I have to make my own. You have all the cool buttons over there that I never let you push.


Mickey Gordon  1:05:49

I know I got all these pretty light up buttons and you won’t let me play with them. Somebody helped me Oh fancy. Why don’t you tell these guys where to find us. We are done talking to you about hunting guys and things that have haunted us in the lifestyle. We need to get out of here and let you get on with your Hallows Eve.


Mallory Gordon  1:06:07

Yeah, man. And don’t forget we’re doing the live virtual event with swinging down under go to social media. Click the link sign up. It’s totally free. We’re gonna party on Halloween guys. And also, if you’re interested in putting together a Halloween playlist that you could find in casual that’s where you can find us and shoot us a message if you’d like at podcasts at casual we are on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. Also the dating sites are double damnation Cassidy flstc and cuivre.


Mickey Gordon  1:06:37

Oh, that sounds like it’s gonna do it. Now parents don’t forget, Reese’s cups are fair game. I don’t care how many your kid has, whether it’s one or 100 they’re yours. That’s your fee for raising those little crotch goblins. Yeah, man. And make sure to join us again, just here in like nine days. We’re gonna get back on our regular cadence. We’re gonna have the beautiful and sexy Derek and Jess we talked about earlier, they’re going to be on with their virgin Hito trip review. Coming up just here in a couple of days. We did that after our hido trip in February. We hope you guys are gonna enjoy it. that’s gonna do it for us. Thanks for joining us you’ve been listening to casuals.



Hi, I’m Venus from the Venus cupholders podcast and I have a special message for all of the single ladies listening. What if you could have a loving, committed partner who wants to stay totally faithful to you, but who would love to see you have incredible experiences with others? It sounds too good to be true, right? It is true. You really can have it all and be loved, celebrated and even put on a pedestal. Learn more at Venus