The Size of the Matter – Talking Size w/ Wanderlust Swingers & SoloSwingin

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Is size everything?  Is it all about male genitalia?  

We talk size & all things being self conscious about it on this week’s Casual Swinger!


Wanderlust Swingers

Casual Toys


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Mallory Gordon  00:08

You’re listening to the casual swinger podcast. As your hosts, we need to warn you that the material you’re about to hear may be sexual or explicit in nature. This podcast is intended for an adult audience. Now we don’t expect you to act like adults. What’s the fun in that?


Mickey Gordon  00:22

We’re a married couple living in Florida with over 13 years of experience in the lifestyle and we take almost nothing seriously. Casual swingers a variety show meaning we’ll cover everything from music to events, travel, and even the occasional hilarious screw up. Our show was about entertainment. We’re not licensed professionals had anything and our stories, commentary and guidance should not be confused with the opinions of a licensed professional.


Mallory Gordon  00:46

Now that you know, let’s take those pants off and get comfy.


Mickey Gordon  00:58

Everybody welcome back to another episode of casual swinger. My name is Mickey. And I’m Mallory, and this is trying again second time. I’m standing outside in the hallway raising hell.


Mallory Gordon  01:08

So fun facts we’re recording remotely from New Orleans.


Mickey Gordon  01:11

This week, the great center of peson desperation. Yeah, New Orleans is and


Mallory Gordon  01:15

a hilarious turn of events. There’s been a multitude of noises happening in the hallway that we were picking up and having interference with and I’m trying not to laugh too hard because I know you’re annoyed.


Mickey Gordon  01:24

I get deeply annoyed when our audio kits


Mallory Gordon  01:28

I mean, let’s be honest, like your your fuse like your tipping point is a lot shorter than mine. Like we’re our fulcrums are totally different when it comes to this fucking comic totally did like mad dad walk out to the hallway like you’re gonna kick some ass and ground somebody and


Mickey Gordon  01:40

I was gonna yell at somebody and tell them dammit, my lawn. Pretty much just totally me these days. But we got some special guests joining us today on casual stringer from the great, piss soaked city of New Orleans. We have the beautiful Kate from wanderlust swingers who? She’s going to join us here in a few minutes and of course our friend so Lou Swinging from Twitter. Yeah, we wanted to call him Han Solo but he didn’t like yeah,


Mallory Gordon  02:04

that was I don’t think that was a nice one.


Mickey Gordon  02:06

I thought it was gonna be great. We’ll catch up with him in a few minutes too but we’re going to talk about size today.


Mallory Gordon  02:12

Size and doesn’t matter what you have


Mickey Gordon  02:15

is a question we got here in New Orleans we did raise their hand is like hey, does size matter really guesser? We know you have the big been telling everybody


Mallory Gordon  02:22

yeah hilariously because that question is so did not belong in the conversation during the seminar. It was literally advertising that he has a big dick if anyone’s interested.


Mickey Gordon  02:29

That was literally what he did. You know? Yeah, we’ll get into that in a little bit. Live crowd events, these sorts of things happened but we’ll we’ll talk about that here in a little bit. But where we’ve been what we’ve been up to,


Mallory Gordon  02:38

oh my gosh, it’s been a really busy travel summer for us.


Mickey Gordon  02:41

We just got back from the beautiful Park City, Utah.


Mallory Gordon  02:44

Yep, definitely one of my favorite destinations I’ve ever been to with you as a couple like vanilla like the the Sunday was at a park silly, silly Park silly market was absolutely incredible. I fucking love that the gondolas? Is that what they’re


Mickey Gordon  02:58

called? Well, yeah, the bit so the closed in Windsor gondolas, and then you have the chair lifts


Mallory Gordon  03:01

alright, I’m not gonna lie piss myself a few times. Oh,


Mickey Gordon  03:05

the pine the red pine gondola was absolutely amazing. Yeah, that was I think it took us up about 1200 feet above the 7000 feet we’re already at Yeah, I


Mallory Gordon  03:13

thought it was gonna Looney Tunes and in the little cart


Mickey Gordon  03:17

badass almost died of oxygen deprivation.


Mallory Gordon  03:19

I do actually you actually did that was actually really scary but like I don’t do heights and rollercoasters. Like there’s just something broken in my brain as I’ve gotten older. And like as we were get coming over the one side of the mountain, like I could feel the blackness in the corner of my eye and I’m like don’t pinhole because if I start bobblehead even sweating I’m done like I’m passing it I


Mickey Gordon  03:37

really didn’t think it was gonna be a problem for you because I thought what I could see was the top well and


Mallory Gordon  03:41

you kept leaning into it and tipping the cart and I’m like oh my god


Mickey Gordon  03:47

Well, I think the thing when we went over that first top of the mountain and we were like three 400 feet in the air that’s when you just shit a chicken. Yeah, you’re it


Mallory Gordon  03:54

was I’m glad I was brave and I did it. I really am and I would do it again but I would be lying if I didn’t say it was was not terrified because I was


Mickey Gordon  04:03

I’ve got some pretty awesome pictures that I took from that gondola that I will go ahead and throw on Twitter here anyway before long if you go check it out. It was definitely a dead zone for swingers there were probably like four or five sets of swingers that reached out to us that you know do listen to the show or friends of the show. They gave us some really really cool suggestions on places to go get drinks. Yeah, no names saloon high West distillery. Yeah.


Mallory Gordon  04:25

No, it was it was great that awesome food bars had great drinks. I did feel a little bit of a pariah because like, even for me, I dress more conservatively than they usually do. But I still felt like everyone knew like I was a vicious trollop. Like every time we went somewhere,


Mickey Gordon  04:39

you’re not a trollop. That’s awesome. That was fun, though. I really enjoyed it. That was that was good travel for us. And of course, just before that, like literally just for that we were in Palm Springs for Kansa This is the last time that we saw Kate and solar Swinging so that was pretty cool to get to see these guys twice in about a month.


Mallory Gordon  04:57

Yeah, twice and yeah, about a month isn’t that I credibly, like I feel spoiled at this point,


Mickey Gordon  05:01

we are spoiled because, you know here in New Orleans where we are right now there’s a bunch of people that were at PCAP. Yes. Which is really how we ended up here. A little reunion. Yeah, well, I had sworn off. I said we were never going to come back here again. And but all our friends are here. So it’s like, fuck, okay, we’ll go. Yeah, we’re lucky ducks. Yeah, it really didn’t suck. But that was pretty amazing. So what else do we have going on? What’s going on in the store this month? In case you guys are wondering, we got Lilo onsale. Leila was 30% off for the entire month of July.


Mallory Gordon  05:28

Yeah, Leila is definitely up there. And then premium brand. But still a great value for what you get. So I highly advise checking out the store and seeing what Leeloo products you might be interested in. I recommend the smart wand. If you’re like me, and you orgasm, you forget to turn off your vibrator and the batteries die. And this one only turns on the kind of like the womanizer with pressure. Yeah. So there’s a little conservation of battery life. They’re also has a very healthy amount of battery


Mickey Gordon  05:56

life. It’s fairly quiet and something medium and large. And unlike


Mallory Gordon  06:00

standard ones with a has a straight handle, this one’s curved. And so is the head a bit. So from an ergonomic perspective, because, you know, I like to be comfy. I’m getting older. I don’t want carpal tunnel for


Mickey Gordon  06:12

a woman of a certain age. Yeah. Is that what it is? Yeah, yeah. All of 20.


Mallory Gordon  06:16

Well, I’m not like in like, am I a cougar yet? Actually? That’s a good question. I’m 38. Does that qualify as Cougar?


Mickey Gordon  06:24

Whether you’re talking to a 22 year old or a 31 year old? To a 22 year old, you’re not a cougar to one year old


Mallory Gordon  06:31

and make a cougar in training?


Mickey Gordon  06:33

There you go. You’re going? Yeah. And you could still take on a cub if you wanted.


Mallory Gordon  06:38

Yeah. Do I have to talk to him? That’s the problem.


Mickey Gordon  06:41

I look at some of these girls. And I’m like, oh, yeah, you’re 25 and you look old.


Mallory Gordon  06:46

Oh my god. Like, did we look like that at 25? I don’t think I don’t think I haven’t. No, definitely not. I definitely look at


Mickey Gordon  06:53

him. You’re like, Wow, you’re really hot. I want to get to know you better. And then I start to get to know Him. And I’m like, please stop talking.


Mallory Gordon  06:57

Yeah, I say to four year old 25. So no, I definitely did not look like that. Anyhow,


Mickey Gordon  07:03

but yeah, by the way, that little one you were talking about is one of the few ones that’s totally submersible. So you can use it in the bathtub.


Mallory Gordon  07:10

That’s true hot tub, bathtub shower. I mean, that’s a unique


Mickey Gordon  07:13

one too, in that regard, and also has a pretty good amount of horsepower.


Mallory Gordon  07:18

And charges fairly quickly. I think it’s a couple hours is full, full battery.


Mickey Gordon  07:22

Yeah, two and a half hours of charge on about 40 minutes.


Mallory Gordon  07:25

Mm hmm. Love it.


Mickey Gordon  07:26

I don’t know why I know that off the top of my head but hey, I own a sex toy store shirt. I love it. Giant bucking nerd but yeah, so podcast. Palooza was a blast. It was a blast. New Orleans smells like pee. Our friends. are probably the ones peeing everywhere. Everything smells like pee. It’s because they’re all running around in front of me busy ones.


Mallory Gordon  07:42

I mean, I did hear Kate went to bed at seven o’clock after being drunk one day, but Oh,


Mickey Gordon  07:46

we got here in Charlotte. Tumbling day drunk. It


Mallory Gordon  07:49

was so good. We have going on? I don’t really know.


Mickey Gordon  07:53

I think we’re gonna get back to Orlando here in a few days and kind of readjust the rest of the summer and see just how sweaty your summer will be.


Mallory Gordon  08:00

Yeah, I think the I think it’s definitely going to be steady. Summers been off to a good start. It actually is. And I’m just gonna go ahead and rip the band aid off and make a quick mention here. So for anyone, I’ve been found by a few friends of ours. So just to be transparent. I have started and only fans. This is something I’ve wanted to do. It’s for me, I’m having a great time. If anyone’s interested, you’re more than welcome to check it out. We’re happy to but we’re not gonna use the podcast to like, use it as a sales funnel or pitch it or promote it. I just don’t want to be, you know, disingenuous or it exists and authentic. It exists. Mrs. There you go. That’s me. That’s my face to actually my face is out there. Now. I left my corporate job


Mickey Gordon  08:43

our faces around yeah, just as of yesterday. That’s true. That’s true. We were walking the


Mallory Gordon  08:47

streets ran into John and Jackie of open love. And they asked about taking our picture and we looked at each other. We’re like, we can fucking do this now if we really want it. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  08:55

So coming up here on casual swinger. We’re not in the closet anymore. We’re just kind of put our faces out there and kind of let it be whatever it is. Yeah, they’re decent. company doesn’t care. I mean, I sling rubber dicks.


Mallory Gordon  09:10

That’s true. And I just have to I don’t. Yeah, I have the answer to me now, so I’m pretty excited about that.


Mickey Gordon  09:15

Yeah, yeah. You’re your own boss. And you’re my boss. I do what I’m told.


Mallory Gordon  09:19

Oh, I like me bossy. That’s kind of hot. Yes, ma’am. I’m already warning Don’t make it worse. Like I am I’m trying not to drool over Keith slick chair. And


Mickey Gordon  09:31

that’s right. We are sitting here staring at Caden sola Swinging who are being so silent so cooperative, they’re


Mallory Gordon  09:35

actually kind of being shipped because I saw them making like, gestures at each other. And I love a corner of my eye. I’m trying not to pay attention to them.


Mickey Gordon  09:43

I did solo Swinging. He made some sort of a hand gesture and I thought I had to steal third. I didn’t know why.


Mallory Gordon  09:50

Get the semaphores


Mickey Gordon  09:52

Yeah. Oh, and we got some shadow puppets and some other things going on.


Mallory Gordon  09:56

Is that a donkey? I love donkeys. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  09:59

there We go but all right, without further ado, we’re gonna bounce out of here from this intro now that you know all about Mallory’s only fans, which Yeah, that’s a thing and that’s the only time we’re ever going to talk about on the show, frankly, guys,


Mallory Gordon  10:11

maybe they’ll see a lake or something on our Twitter but like we don’t, it’s


Mickey Gordon  10:16

not what casual swingers about why we’re here. So if you hear about it again, it is what it is. But it’s not something we’re hiding from you. It’s just not really not really part of what casual swingers. So don’t worry scheduled toys will still be and the other things we do will be the travel things we do will be and of course, Mallory sledding summer will be part of our further conversations as we close out season four here in the next couple of episodes. And come back to Season Five with our faeces out of the gate. In the meantime, Mallory Do you want to tell everybody how to find us?


Mallory Gordon  10:45

You know at some point we should pre record this so we can just insert it so I don’t have to do it live every time it’s more fun watching you. Alright guys, we are casual swinger everywhere. You can find us at casual Feel free to shoot us a message at podcasts at casual You can find us on social media and Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. And if you’d like to check us out on the dating sites that’s Cassidy SLS STC and WT nation.


Mickey Gordon  11:06

Soldier you see, that’s why we don’t pre record it because you have to be it’s gonna get your mouth like that.


Mallory Gordon  11:12

Yeah, but I have to like close my eyes and think about it. And it’s it’s really you should hear


Mickey Gordon  11:15

the last episode where I had to do it at the end because you did listen


Mallory Gordon  11:18

to it and it may be your ringtone now


Mickey Gordon  11:23

but the alabaster screwed on was gonna be your drunken ask by the time we got he was a hot mess. That’s alright. Hey, folks, we’ll be back in a hot second with solar Swinging and the Beautiful Gate from one of our listeners. We talked about the size matter. I’m sure I’ll come up with some of the shorter the episode title like giant labia or the roast beef. No. She wants me to stop. We’ll be back in a minute. I’ve been listening to casuals.


Mallory Gordon  12:15

Hey, welcome back to casual swing around your co host Mallory.


Mickey Gordon  12:19

And I’m still Mickey. It’s only been eight seconds. Yeah, I know. But so welcome. Hey, that’s twice as long as it takes me to have sex.


Mallory Gordon  12:26

Please don’t say that. People are gonna judge me more than they will judge you. So what are we talking about? today? We’re gonna talk about size and if or if it does not matter.


Mickey Gordon  12:36

Yeah, I guess it’s a really large conversation. A huge conversation very long, very wide, very thick.


Mallory Gordon  12:43

Now you’re advertising. All right. Here we go.


Mickey Gordon  12:47

No, I you know, it’s funny. We were we were in a session with Kate, here in New Orleans. And there was a guy who just kind of decided out of the blue. And we asked, does anyone have any questions? And he’s like, I have a question. Does size matter to women? And he kind of stands there with this big cheesy grin. Yeah. It’s like, Sure, dude, you have a giant dick. And you just told the whole room we understand larious. But it turned into a bit of a more interesting conversation for the room about size and just kind of understanding where people are. And it was interesting to see people in the room chime in. You know, you chimed in that you’re like, yeah, getting to China robots a bad point.


Mallory Gordon  13:23

And fun fact, Keith is here along with our friends, so listening that are gonna chime in on this conversation, guys, but it was really hilarious to see us both kind of like they’re gonna try to shut this shit down a little bit. Because that did just advertising.


Mickey Gordon  13:39

Yeah, and keep control the room. But, you know, I think it was interesting that you kind of came in on the side of Yeah, I mean, you know, size is a good thing. And Kate came in on the side of well, too big is a bad thing.


Mallory Gordon  13:52

Well, my argument was that size does matter. Right? Like anyone who says no, no, of course it doesn’t is the kind of fucking line because it doesn’t matter if you’re in a rowboat, or you aren’t. You’re on a fucking aircraft carrier. If you don’t know how to drive the fucking boat, it doesn’t matter.


Mickey Gordon  14:09

Yeah. And of course, in this particular context, we’re talking about penis. But you know, it’s funny that I think what we did leave off in that room, and we’re gonna get Solis Swinging and Kate to chime in here in two seconds. But its size is relative to the person who’s experiencing it. So the Goldilocks principle applies here. That what is too big for someone is somebody else’s jam. What’s too small for somebody is somebody else’s jam. You find the right person for you and you guys get together like peanut butter and jelly and it’s off to the races. You’re having a great time and sushi. But that being said, Kate, how you doing?


Wanderlust Cate  14:48

I’m good, man. How you doing?


Mickey Gordon  14:49

Really good. You were just silent as a tomb over there. Yeah, because


Wanderlust Cate  14:52

of the last time I interrupted your intro, and I remember you taking the piss out of me for months. Sorry, I’m sitting here not doing that.


Mickey Gordon  14:59

Yeah. Absolutely did that. So Liz Swinging How you doing today?


Solo Swingin  15:02

I’m doing well I’m definitely quiet because this is my maiden podcast voyage are taking my podcast cherry here so


Mickey Gordon  15:10

you have the smoothest voice though like your


Solo Swingin  15:13

pot kettle black, thank you very much. We’re just trying not to sound too much like Frasier Crane, I’m listening.


Mickey Gordon  15:21

Standing there. So you know, I’m often accused of being your brother. So I think it’s kind of fun that we get to do this.


Solo Swingin  15:28

I have no siblings, but if I had one, I would delight in having you as my siblings to guide you as well, my friend because her adorable little total bromance.


Mickey Gordon  15:38

This guy is one of my favorites. And he is a single man in the lifestyle ladies line up,


Mallory Gordon  15:43

get go file line, please girls,


Mickey Gordon  15:45

he’ll take two at a time. Oh, okay. Well, he’s a man of many times,


Mallory Gordon  15:48

I believe in you,


Solo Swingin  15:50

you know, making up my maitre d any day. Yeah, absolutely.


Mickey Gordon  15:53

I think you could take four at a time. He’s got two arms, a tongue and a penis. Last I heard.


Mallory Gordon  15:58

Let’s do this.


Solo Swingin  16:00

I have no comment. I think you would die trying I believe I believe in under promising and over delivering and you’re setting me up for failure as your feed out of it. Thank goodness. My podiatrist thanks you as well.


Mickey Gordon  16:14

So, during the conversation that we had in the ballroom, you really came out strongly on the side of that sometimes there’s just dicks are too big. Yeah, the hell you come in from without what I didn’t think was possible to have a deck that was too big.


Wanderlust Cate  16:29

Oh my god, it’s so possible. And I mean, when we talk about size does or does not matter. Interestingly enough, last night on my Snapchat, I got a guy messaging me asking about how big my pussy is not from a labia perspective, but from like a deep, wide perspective,


Mickey Gordon  16:47

did you really got a micrometer and give like him a


Wanderlust Cate  16:50

millionaire. And I guess it’s just this misinformation that exists in sexuality. It exists. And I guess people aren’t discussing it enough. And therefore it’s all about porn. It’s all about these perceptions. Yeah. And so I think that when we talk about size matters, obviously, we’re gonna get deeper into other aspects of size matters. But I think this is where the whole like, you know, P and V thing stems from is that like, well, how big is your cock? How tiny is my pussy? And you know, this gentleman out of out of nowhere, asked this question. And yeah, my response was, absolutely, they can be too big. I have had guys that have hurt me. I’ve had guys that have been it’s been it’s been painful. It’s not been pleasurable. I’ve had guys that quite simply just don’t fit, regardless of how many gallons of lube and how much foreplay there is. So does size matter? I mean, the answer is black and white. Yes, it does. And I, I think the way that we go instantly is the size matter? Because we’re thinking about this on the smaller side, whereas my perspective is, it doesn’t matter, because I’m not taking a giant cock that looks like it’s a baby’s arm holding an apple,


Mallory Gordon  18:00

don’t you think though, like, from a science perspective, on the male side, my perception is that they’re constantly thinking of their dick size in comparison to everyone before after them the guy next to them, like because they don’t want to be the quote unquote, small guy. So that’s where their, their mental state seems to be. Would you agree? Yeah.


Wanderlust Cate  18:18

And I mean, again, I don’t have one. So I don’t understand where that comes from. What I can say from from a female’s perspective is that I think we carry a certain amount of stigma, and again, misinformation with how big our policy is. And you know, it’s like that whole sausage, gentle hallway. thing. Yeah. And I so I find it interesting that somewhere along the lines from an adolescent to an adult, we take up these ridiculous stigmas, and we place that shit on other people.


Mallory Gordon  18:49

We project? Of course we do, because then it gets further away from us, as a person.


Wanderlust Cate  18:53

So yeah, I found I find the question interesting. But I also find that it’s not a question that can be answered in a simple 10 minute conversation. It’s a broader discussion. And so why do you think that’s your only value? Is that all you can bring to the table play wise, as well? You know, I mean, there’s so many things here, right?


Mickey Gordon  19:10

Oh, that was my response to the guy in the ballroom was, if that is your primary positive attribute that you are presenting to somebody. That’s all you are, you are literally asking them to fetishize The one thing about you that you find valuable. And that’s what you’re


Mallory Gordon  19:29

stating that this is the only thing I find valuable about myself, the only thing I think you will accept of me.


Wanderlust Cate  19:36

I mean, and there’s a certain kink involved in this too, and I don’t know sort of solid Swinging, you might want to kind of chime in here, but there is a legitimate kink on people talking about Coxide I mean, when I’m fucking Darrell, you know, he when we’re talking dirty, he’s like, oh, yeah, baby, tell me how I fill you up. And I’m like, your dick is perfect for my pussy. And we have these conversations during play. So I understand it from that kind of that key In perspective, and I guess I’m not yucking anyone’s yum in that regard, but I think there’s a fine line between. Is it big enough? Is it too small? Is it performing? Is it the right size? Whatever? Versus I guess? Yeah. fetishizing nanosolar Swinging. What do you saved me for myself?


Solo Swingin  20:20

I think I think you’re saying it, right. I mean, if you put a specifically in the context of a size of discussion, where you where someone’s looking for a specific size, or is turned on by a specific size, then having conversation centered around size, makes perfect sense. But I think it’s the wrong question. Or we say we say, Does size matter? And there’s a, there’s a not subtle implication there. Of, I’m small, you’re big, or am I big enough? And it’s never the question. I mean, the question should be, in theory, what size caulk Do you like?


Wanderlust Cate  20:51

And how do you like?


Solo Swingin  20:53

Wouldn’t that be a much more interesting conversation? First of all, it shows attention to the person you’re talking


Wanderlust Cate  20:58

to, which is very important, especially from a single path


Mickey Gordon  21:01

to pleasure, because maybe it’s not


Solo Swingin  21:02

penetration at all, whatever. But it doesn’t presume that what they’re inherently looking for what you probably believe, whether it’s the porn conversation, or whether it’s sociological or whether it’s why is


Wanderlust Cate  21:11

it like as a single guy like it, if you’re bringing this to the table? I mean, how are you interacting with other couples, other single ladies? I mean,


Solo Swingin  21:18

why do you think I will say, in 20 years or so of being in this world, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand, the number of times I’ve had the conversation, and the one that sticks out for me personally, it was years ago with someone who was still a friend. We haven’t played in years, but I knew that she had a history of playing with a single African American gentleman who were well endowed. And so in that context, it made sense for me to raise to her listen, if this is what does it for you, then I feel like it behooves me to say to you, listen, I’m nothing more than average. And if that’s what you need, I won’t be able to provide it which led to one of the funnier stories that ever happened to me. Because we did in fact, play. And when it was over, I said, sort of jokingly referencing our original conversation. I hope it was okay. She was oh, no, it’s fine. You’re girthy. I said, I feel like the ACE dwarf. Easy and Dopey and dark and bashful and girthy.


Mallory Gordon  22:17

Yeah. So you were very proactive in the conversations, you presented it to her like, Hey, I know this about you. So I’m just gonna put it out there. And make sure and protect her or nurture the fact that you may need something else more than


Solo Swingin  22:28

but without that, I probably never would in a million years would have raised it.


Mallory Gordon  22:31

Yeah. Has anyone ever raised it to you that come to you about and talked about excise? Because I feel like I have never, openly outwardly asked about the excise. It’s not been a primary concern of whether or not I’m interested in having sex with that guy.


Solo Swingin  22:45

I don’t know. I don’t think anybody’s ever proactively approached me means I mean, a great deal of my experience certainly has centered around naked resorts.


Wanderlust Cate  22:54

I was about to say is it because you’re already naked, maybe


Solo Swingin  22:56

already naked? i This is sort of my mantra, which is one of the reasons why I spend so much time in these places and why I enjoy them so much is like you’ve seen everything I have to work with. Right now. Turn me on. Yeah. Right. Because it takes it takes it takes all of that away. And you know, you have to get into the grower not show or conversation because that’s it’s a lot of hito philosophy. Classes. You’re not that you’re not that impressive, but you can still get it done so to speak. When you get turned on? Sure. Okay, fine. We can have that conversation. But then again, at Hedo, you can sort of find out on your own you really want to know,


Mickey Gordon  23:28

I’m gonna make an inflammatory statement.


Mallory Gordon  23:30

Oh, that never happened. Never happened.


Wanderlust Cate  23:32

I never you’re gonna inflame something.


Mickey Gordon  23:34

As coqueta Kelly, Auntie, I never have an opinion.


Mallory Gordon  23:36

I’ll get you some cream for that. Thanks.


Mickey Gordon  23:39

It’s an inflamed statement. Men talk about penis size way more than women do. Yeah, I


Solo Swingin  23:48

amatory at all. I mean, I think that’s true. Well, we’re back. We’re neurotic messes about it. And they just don’t care that much.


Mickey Gordon  23:54

Yeah. Oh, and I think when we get neurotic about something, it actually takes them out of a positive sexual headspace.


Wanderlust Cate  24:01

But I will say that I think women out there and I don’t want to use neurotic because I feel like that’s somehow taking away from the very real concerns that we have, which is labia size. Yeah, so like, oh, you know, as much as I think guys might think about, you know, their cock size. I think that a lot of us women, we get bought up and we start to really get concerned about how we look and feel and present and it is a little bit traumatic at times. I gotta be honest,


Mallory Gordon  24:35

it’s a stressful false


Mickey Gordon  24:37

narrative that somehow grown among men, that the more sex a woman has, the more wrecked her pussy becomes Yes, it looks like somebody took an axe to a pile a roast beef. And if you didn’t have sex, and you were an exponential say about your about your behaviors, then suddenly, you wouldn’t have that you look like you’d never had sex in the first place. You’d have this perfectly smooth aerodynamic air. You’re down there,


Solo Swingin  25:00

like like, like your labia would recede into its natural shell on its own, like, like a turtle.


Mallory Gordon  25:05

So like, I think the whole I think this is the influence of porn because porn for a long time at least for me in my viewership pussies looked like they had larger outer lips and the inner lips are smaller, more tucked in more tight Lake concern to you. I didn’t see a lot of porn that had larger inner lips. Okay, okay. So I feel like that’s kind of like the mental image I had. And they they present is maybe virginal or sweet, innocent demeanour. All of these other things, and that’s how they’re presented to us to consume. So when I would look down and I’m like, um, I think that’s not what guys are gonna want because it doesn’t look like that. Like I consciously remember as a teenager having that thought, because I totally watched my dad’s porn. I do


Solo Swingin  25:50

wonder if this gets maybe gets into the weeds a bit, but it also sociologically, I wonder if it has anything to do with the conversation around pubic hair. Because, I mean, I’m old enough to remember, you know, old old schmuck mags, you know, old hustlers and things. When you have Bush, I think so when when pubic hair was very common in porn, magazines and things. I don’t think we obsessed as much about how the labia itself or the vagina itself presented. Yeah, and if you look at those magazines, like you know, you have women pulling back the hood of their clit and a picture, and their lips are every which way and you didn’t care. Somehow, I don’t know if if the if the hair distracted, or it was part of the picture, but somehow, I wonder, this progression towards no pubic hair, which speaks also to your notion about virginity and all that sort of thing. Maybe that created a hyper focus on Okay, well, whatever is left, we need to stare at that and it needs to look a certain way. Yeah. And we all obsess over that more somehow.


Wanderlust Cate  26:45

I was, you know what, I was a Conterra away, because we’re talking about that. I was a con here away. Forget it from getting a labia plasti a couple of years, like not maybe I want to say 10 years ago, maybe a decade


Mallory Gordon  26:56

ago, a friend of mine just got hers done. And I literally have been thinking about it for months now. Yeah,


Wanderlust Cate  27:00

I was so close to getting it done. Because again, what I saw represented as a female form, and we talk about the you know, the X wearing the whole thing was that my labia menorah was larger than what was being represented everywhere that I was being seen. And, you know, this is partly pre Darrell to my ex boyfriend washed a lot of porn, where again, it was like the Bailey legal, whatever we were young at the time to we were like 20 Sure. But all of that Pong was represented as the labia menorah were inside. They were not showing outside whatsoever, or maybe just the tiniest little peek. And I was like, I’m not represented any of this stuff. And if that’s what my boyfriend is watching, that is what men want. And therefore, I’m ugly. And I remember distinctly being in the lifestyle and actually shirt for it took me a lot, but I actually got on my knees. I was naked on the bed, and I literally grabbed my pussy. And I showed a couple and I was like, I’m actually really concerned about this. And I’m like, You have a beautiful policy. But you don’t know you don’t know when to look at other other ones because you think for some reason the eye of the beholder. Yeah, but for some reason, we all think that Oz is like ugly. And I don’t understand where that ship comes from. And that’s the same thing with coke size, you know, boob size or nipple size or whatever it is, like we clit size like we obsess about being the anomaly being exception.


Mickey Gordon  28:23

Well, and so kind of in only for a moment, going back to the gentleman, you know, in the playroom, we go into the playroom, we take our pants off, and yet, you know Aikido solo Swinging said it’s the great equalizer. But we go into that space and you go to play on a bed, and you’re next on a bed on a bed next to a guy that’s huge. There’s no guy in the universe that looks at that and suddenly feels comfortable whipping out what he’s got to play. When he’s looking at that wondering if he’s gonna if the person he’s with would rather be with him.


Wanderlust Cate  28:56

I have a serious question I want to do around the room right now. I want to know, in a playroom, being around other people situation, how often you have looked at the same sex genitalia. Like what percentage how often do you look? Do you look? I’m curious. You go.


Mickey Gordon  29:12

A wheelbarrow? You can’t help but notice, right?


Wanderlust Cate  29:15

Did you actively look? No, no, I


Mickey Gordon  29:16

don’t, I wouldn’t say you actively look because you’re looking for a good spot. You’re making sure it’s clean. You’re making sure it’s a safe place to play with the people you’re there to play with, I think is a guy. All of that comes before looking around to see if there’s any bigger dicks than mine for sure. But I don’t think what I’m saying is you can’t help but notice when there’s somebody that is significant on one side of the scale or the other and if they’re significantly larger than you I think that does call confidence into question for guys. Now I think that may apply for women as well which we find it equally ridiculous that you guys would have, you know concerns about the size of your labia or your nipples or, or whatever your clit I mean It’s hilarious to hear that from you and I hear it from both of you from time to time and I’m like, fuck is wrong with you like they’re perfect just the way they are. The idea of labia plasti to me is asinine to me, because there’s no medical reason why you have to get them lopped off unless you’re dragging them down the beach behind you.


Wanderlust Cate  30:17

I had an old flatmate and she did have one that was significantly larger than the other so she did get a correction done. Good for her. You know, I’m all about it if it makes you feel any better, but I think the difference here is what was driving my decision was not from a place of I want to do this because I want to make myself feel better it was driving it because I wouldn’t do this because I’m broken. Wrong. Ugly. I don’t know. Mallory Gee, look around the room at other people’s Posies when they’re in


Mickey Gordon  30:43

the room and go check out the beef curtains on


Mallory Gordon  30:45

them. So I’m gonna call myself out here at Hi. Look at genitalia all the time. So I look at hito I look at it the fucking grocery store like I don’t know. Like, I think it’s just something that’s ingrained in me. I don’t, I don’t know that it’s always really is not as much related to sex as I would consciously say so. Like, I just fucking like I’m fascinated with genitalia. Like I love it. I’m bisexual, I live COC. But also like, everyone shaped and looks differently and like I think and maybe in my head, I’m taking stock and doing a law of averages or like, kind of like the the vulva project, like just taking stock and what’s different what’s like, what’s good, like, checking those boxes, or just making bullet points I


Mickey Gordon  31:31

love. I love those things. You mentioned the vulva project, which is an illustrated book you can buy there’s the vagina project. There’s all they’re on Instagram, they’re online, and what they are is a celebration of female genitalia, and how different all of them are. And they’re all ages, all sizes, so my pubic hair to sola Swinging point, some don’t. But they are all wildly different. They are


Mallory Gordon  31:51

and and actually like the vulva project, specifically because I started hormone therapy and so my clitoris got significantly larger, and I was so fucking devastated. Now granted, my orgasms were better. But like the first time I had to take my pants off in front of somebody I wanted to have sex with I was fucking terrified. And I was like, please, don’t be afraid. It’s not a microphone. They’re like, what? And I pulled my pants and they’re like, What the fuck? It was almost hilarious. The


Mickey Gordon  32:16

reaction should Klitz not that big


Mallory Gordon  32:18

on my head. It’s like the size of my microphone. And then it’s just knocking around in my pants all the time. Like everyone can see it.


Wanderlust Cate  32:25

It’s Body Dysmorphia for your clitoris. Yeah, pretty


Mallory Gordon  32:27

much. I love her. She’s fantastic. But ya know, I definitely look at genitalia in it. But I’m also one of those people that constantly does, like, Where do I stand in


Wanderlust Cate  32:37

the society? And so you’ll you’ll be looking at people and their outfits, and they’re unfairly


Mallory Gordon  32:41

ranked myself somewhere between me and this other human. Okay. Yeah.


Solo Swingin  32:45

What about you, sir? Well, first of all, I want to shop at Mallory’s grocery store where she can share just their genitalia because I want to know what grocery


Wanderlust Cate  32:52

store it’s called cop dog. It’s in France. Publix,


Mallory Gordon  32:55

pupils are seriously and I don’t discriminate. Doesn’t matter meal women age.


Wanderlust Cate  33:02

Lots of time around the frozen food section heard


Solo Swingin  33:04

clean up in Aisle Five. I I won’t lie and say that. In a Hedo scenario I was in the playroom. I’m not a big playroom guy in general. I don’t spend a lot of time in play rooms overall. So I can’t I can’t speak to that too much. But I won’t lie and say that if you know, there haven’t been times, where I’ve seen some well endowed gentleman show up at the pool. And I’ve watched some woman who I like already, you know, her eyes go there. And she’s like, just once I’d like a woman to look at me that way. And I know it’ll never happen because I don’t have that and never will. But I’ve had some experiences with that where like, if I know the person, and I’ve said something to them, I think even once I said it to a friend of mine, just just once I’d like you to look at me the way you looked at that guy. And she and she said to me, Oh, I was with him last night. It ain’t all that and it goes back to your original point of or your original point, Mickey. If that’s all you have to offer, then you know again for someone who that is the sort of the sound fancy, the raison d’etre for being in this world, then sure that that guy can fulfill that need for that person who needs to be with a big day. But to reduce so many women’s desire to be part of this to being with a big dick does a disservice to those women. Because you’ve I’ve I’ve certainly found that in many cases, it’s a psychological high. It’s a physical high of other varieties, whether it’s somebody watching not watching hot wifing whatever you’re doing, it’s fulfilling a different psychological needs. So to reduce it only to a big dick is doing them a disservice. The other the other statistic, and I cede the floor to the ladies on this but years ago, somebody took me aside and said, you know, the average length of the vaginal canal is four inches. Anything more than four inches, you’re fucking your cervix,


Wanderlust Cate  34:50

and you’re causing urinary tract infections. It’s so my whole thing.


Solo Swingin  34:54

So I’m like, Okay, well then, you know, I will be contented my knowledge that I can fill it I’m going up without discomfort. And if she needs more than that she can go to somebody else. But in general, I can do the job with what I’ve got.


Wanderlust Cate  35:09

There’s also penis extensions. Do you guys have these in the store? We


Mallory Gordon  35:11

  1. Yeah. There’s sleeves. Yep. Yeah. So


Wanderlust Cate  35:14

how to how do we how do we feel about that? I don’t know anything about this. Sorry. It’s a little, you know what I mean, you run the store, you can talk about,


Solo Swingin  35:23

like a manicure kind of get like gel and kind of get,


Wanderlust Cate  35:25

like little pink, like,


Mickey Gordon  35:28

the pointy ones and the glittery ones. Yeah.


Solo Swingin  35:29

Can they match my outfit on?


Wanderlust Cate  35:31

Someone’s pleasure,


Mallory Gordon  35:32

some have funny faces on them. Really.


Mickey Gordon  35:34

Essentially, what it is, is it’s it’s a sheath that goes over your cock and provides an extension. And potentially depending on which one you buy additional girth. Now a lot of


Solo Swingin  35:45

us will have combination condom and chief could both


Mickey Gordon  35:49

know it isn’t a condom, it’s not it should go on over. And if you’re going to do that, however, what it does is it does have openings along the base with the frenulum of the penis, which is just under the head. And that is exposed to allow you to continue to have sensation despite the fact that you’re wearing a cover over.


Solo Swingin  36:07

Basically, you look like a gladiator your penis looks like a gladiator Spartan. Yeah. Are you not entertained, you’re stands up at the end. Just as a woman gives you the thumbs up or the thumbs down when it’s over?


Mickey Gordon  36:19

Well, I stand at the foot of the bed, put my hands on my hips and say you may refer to me as Marcus Aurelius.


Wanderlust Cate  36:26

But I mean, annual in all seriousness, like what you just said, if somebody desires something a little bit more, I mean, there are aspects and ways to do that with the partner that you’re with without necessarily seeking another partner who has that huge cock, you know, so you’re still getting and I’m sure that after you spoke solo Swinging, there’s probably a lot of ladies on the podcast who would like Sploosh from just the intelligent conversation. But if you’re wanting something more than the big dick, I mean, there are other ways to do to do that, obviously, in this tongues and his fingers in this, you know, toys, anything else?


Mickey Gordon  36:57

Dick’s we carry in the store? Yeah, yeah.


Solo Swingin  37:00

Well, I mean, the funny thing about toys, you know, I remember, the first time I ever I was dating somebody in the vanilla context, and we have been dating for a bit. So if I had had her home, and she discovered that I had sex toys, and she couldn’t, she couldn’t fathom why I own sex toys, really. And I sort of walked her through it, and she knew I was in the lifestyle, but she didn’t, she didn’t really know the what that meant sex toys for you, as a male is external to us on women. Ah, and I have a huge collection, but I have a few. And we have gotten to a place where we could sort of speak openly about that. And I was like, Well, you know, in most cases, it was a sex toy that I had seen used on someone in the lifestyle context. And it had an extreme positive reaction and I sort of said to myself well self if there’s if this thing can do that, I don’t know that I’ve ever brought a woman to that level of ecstasy I need to I should own that don’t have that much. I should be able to have that in my in my toolkit I have in your belt, your utility belt, my utility bills,


Mallory Gordon  38:00

a whole like 80s Montage thing that happened in my head with I need a hero like playing in the background.


Solo Swingin  38:06

Well, I mean, this is a favorite movie. So I’ll take I’ll take it. We’ve talked about that. Absolutely. Let’s hear it for the boy. I’d be the hero so you know,


Mallory Gordon  38:15

oh, boy. Oh really works. So I have a question for you guys. And we’ve talked about penises and laybys. Guys, do you guys have nipple issues like self conscious about nipples? Because I know girls do. And I want to get


Mickey Gordon  38:26

into one guy here that had freakishly long nipples. And it only got my attention because they were laying on his chest.


Mallory Gordon  38:32

You even notice your nipples?


Mickey Gordon  38:35

My nipples I just don’t want people to touch them in


Solo Swingin  38:37

my nipples frustrated me.



Watching me to know about those?


Solo Swingin  38:40

Oh, my nipple. I’ll tell you why my nipples. Because I love boobs. I adore boobs. And since I was a fan, I love playing with boobs and sucking on boobs and all that sort of thing. And I always you know, friends of mine, who when they’re contemplating getting their boobs done, or suddenly whatever you do, just please don’t go you do the one that keeps sensitivity and all that if, if I’m spending all my time there and you’re just not registering at all, it’s going to frustrate me know what the problem is. I have the most insensitive nipples and I don’t mean as a personality. I have the most insensitive so rude nipples imaginable. Yeah, very offensive, lazily. Rude


Wanderlust Cate  39:13



Solo Swingin  39:15

What happens is Yeah, to waitstaff. So what happens is I spent my time and I think there’s a natural inclination that we this is a whole separate conversation, but I think there’s a natural inclination, especially if you’re playing with someone for the first time that they extrapolate from the thing you did to them, you may like it as well. So if I spend a lot of time on a woman’s boobs, and then turn the tables are turned and she gets her chance to go to town on me, she’ll spend all this time on my boobs and I sort of have to give her that dreaded tap that guys hate getting, you know, sweetie, it’s just it’s not doing anything. I’m sorry.


Wanderlust Cate  39:43

See this? Nothing? Yeah, bubkis You know, I’m saying nothing keeps over


Mickey Gordon  39:48

here thumping this shit out.


Wanderlust Cate  39:50

Darrell has sensitive nipples. So you’re right. I mean, if someone was playing with him, and they’re gonna come over to me like it’s fucking choke and she’s up in here. I’m like, yeah, they don’t do anything for me. That’s


Solo Swingin  39:59

just like Coming up mental I’m in Tokyo.


Mickey Gordon  40:04

She’s tuning in Brisbane Come on.


Wanderlust Cate  40:06

Yeah. I’m gonna send her attention but it doesn’t mean shit.


Mickey Gordon  40:10

Well, you know it’s funny because I gave a


Mallory Gordon  40:12

whack book with her. Did


Mickey Gordon  40:14

you know Mallory we’ve we’ve met a few girls over the years that have longer nipples. And almost without fail. They’re extremely self conscious about oh, yeah, I dated a girl long before I met you that had the longest nipples I’ve ever seen. And I was just going to be honest, I was shocked by them. When I took her bra off because I’d never seen nipples like that in porn. I’ve never seen them. In the magazines that I hid from my grandmother behind her hairdryer. She had one of the sit down hair dryers because I was gonna say why she was a hair stylist. So she had like the hair dryer chair. Yeah. And I used to hide my mags in her hairdryer because nobody ever used it.


Solo Swingin  40:51

And you grew up in Steel Magnolias, basically. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  40:55

very much so well, it was really good until they went to move the chair one day and all my mags fell out long after I’d moved out of the house. I blamed it on my grandfather.


Mallory Gordon  41:02

I was gonna say You totally did not take when you did not fess up to that chance. They


Mickey Gordon  41:06

all knew it was me. But I blamed him anyway. Just such a bit. I am it’s a blame. It’s the American way. But anyway, you know, the the gist of it is when I saw these the first time, I really wasn’t sure what to do. Should I pay more attention to them less attention to them? Am I going to make yourself conscious by calling them out? Am I freaked out by it? And I’m gonna be a little honest. At first I was. But I was younger. I was inexperienced. I hadn’t seen what I’ve seen at this point. Today what I be know what I don’t want my question, I guess is as women, do you want something that is noteworthy about yourself that does stand about yourself whether it’s larger labia or a bigger clitoris or bigger nipples? Do you want special attention paid to it? And worse you don’t? Do you say something? If you do? Do you say something?


Mallory Gordon  41:54

That’s a good question. So yes, and no.


Wanderlust Cate  42:02

That’s Valerie for President. Yeah, I need 27


Mallory Gordon  42:06

You’re welcome. I mean, you asked like five or six different questions in there effectively. So it’s very specific to what we’re talking about. So like, my lips for example, my labia is fine play with them. Like don’t chew on them, but I if you pay special attention, I do like it. But I don’t necessarily crave it per se. My Clay Now it’s more sensitive. So there’s like a different approach. Well,


Wanderlust Cate  42:33

I mean, there’s nerve endings around there. Right? So


Mallory Gordon  42:35

yeah, and like it’s more pronounced so someone who is obviously not engaged with a clip like that protrudes because for a lot of our play, for example, we play fine the clit letter we have to chase that little little guy around.


Mickey Gordon  42:51

Those girls are just self conscious by the way if their clip is like a Mike, I think they’re Yes.


Mallory Gordon  42:55

And I find that they they’re just frustrated because they they have challenges in getting off utilizing those nerve bundles that you’re chasing around. Me, it’s the opposite. Like you can’t go too hard too soon, because like that’s a lot of nerve bundles exposed, like right there. And it doesn’t always require direct contact. So I’m very verbose when it comes to that. My nipples it’s kind of hit or miss because like, sometimes in the throes of passion, I’m like, Oh yeah, suck on him harder. But like if we’re playing around and it’s just standard foreplay I don’t even know that I want them like touched for say like maybe grazed but not necessarily like fumbled with but you know me I’m very vocal, very confident and being vocal, but you know, they


Wanderlust Cate  43:35

have to be so I’m currently reading what’s your nipple type and other 24 facts about nipples? Because you know, multitasking. It says here that there were four to eight types of nipples and they can be flat protruding introverted unclassified, it’s also have you know, possible to have one breast with a protruding nipple and one without any internality it says it talks about like, introverted nipples are normal as well. i


Solo Swingin  44:02

It also wait I also want to say like Myers Briggs for apples No, yeah, it is. And


Wanderlust Cate  44:06

I also want to say and FJ it says number six, and I won’t talk about this anymore, but this is on Nipple hair is real. As what I mentioned that I I have never really I mean, I think not necessarily my nipples but definitely Ariola have been a consideration and the ratio of areola to my breast size. Yeah, have been a consideration and I know other women who either feel like they have you know, it’s darker or it’s gonna say this, the color as well. Color, the size, the ratio, I think all of those things come into play, whether it’s smooth or has little bumpers on it. Yep. And then I think also, Kay from that couple of extra podcast has she has a lot like larger nipples and she used to joke around about how she can hold like five CDs on her hand. It was pretty nice to get a new reference because like CDs are so you know, Do you have kids that are gonna be like biology? 1000s. But she, she spoke about the fact that, you know, since joining lifestyle, she came to realize that at the beginning, she would almost apologize to people. She’s playing with her head logic nipples. Now she’s like, ah, you know, I’ve seen him all shapes, colors, sizes, whatever. And so she kind of feels a little bit more confident about them now. Just fuck two. So there’s that. Yeah. So I think it really matches her body and I think it matches a hips and I think it matches and Bosch and everything else. But me specifically, I don’t have a problem with my nipple size areola to breast size. I will say right now I don’t like my boobs. My right one especially, it can just get the fuck out. Holder. It’s bigger and it’s so it’s sagging a little bit more because I’ve got like more fat on and obviously when you put more weight on your boobs and other things, they get bigger. So I’m not liking them in general right now. But I’ve always felt okay about my nipples, areola to breast tissue ratio.


Mickey Gordon  45:58

Got it? Is that something that causes you? Or any of these things? So whether it’s labia, clitoris nipples Coxide for us? Does it slow us down? When we go to sleep with somebody thinks


Mallory Gordon  46:13

in a deal breaker for anyone? Really you


Mickey Gordon  46:16

do where you don’t want to show your parts to somebody? So you just don’t play?


Wanderlust Cate  46:18

Yeah, 100% 100% it’s, you know, I wear certain outfits right now, especially my getting my ratbeard my cops that I will wear an outfit? And I’m like, no, because of my rapid, oh, I will like go to a play room or go to a club. And I’m like, Nope, don’t want to do that, because of whatever self conscious reason that I’m feeling in that moment in that time. And it may not be something that carries over to the next week or the next month. But in that moment doesn’t stop me from playing 100% by email.


Mallory Gordon  46:51

I don’t know that it has, you just go. I mean, I’m self conscious about it. Or I’ll mention I, the way I deal with stuff like that, as I make a joke, usually off color, self deprecating, and then I move on, you know, but I don’t know that it’s ever stopped me from playing my tiny wouldn’t I lost weight and my boobs are smaller. I think that was the most self conscious I ever felt. So like, I take my bra off and I cover my boobs. I distinctly remember doing that before I got my boob job. But I don’t know that it stopped me.


Solo Swingin  47:23

You know, to say I don’t we in another in another bit of unfairness where men have an unfair advantage in so many ways. But in this one in particular, we can’t do the comparison as obviously at least on the boob thing, right? I mean, like, I have no idea what his dick is, like, if I see if I see a couple and I’m worried how I will measure up. I can’t know unless I’ve been hanging out at hito or someplace like that, where I’ve seen the gentleman naked. So that doesn’t really enter it. I think all sorts of other body issues and body positivity enters into it. If I think we’ve all had a moment in our lives where it said, Oh, I’m, you know, she’s out of my league, or he’s out of my league kind of thing. And I do that for any number of other reasons that have nothing to do with dick size. I’m like, Oh, she’s married to that guy. That guy’s ripped. That guy is whatever. There’s no way and now I’ve in 20 years, I’ve learned that that can go out the window very quickly. And it’s one of the reasons I love the lifestyle. But it’s not specifically related to the topic at hand, which is the excise?


Wanderlust Cate  48:20

No, I think it’s size does size matter. And I think it’s a really good time to break because you just mentioned abs and I think that’s a whole lot of fucking rabbit hole when you dive down. Well, there you go.


Mickey Gordon  48:29

Surely so we actually did an episode this season, talking about just kind of not just body issues, but just self confidence issues, and discovering your own self confidence and how we let our fears about ourselves. Allow us to make decisions for other people. We tell ourselves they don’t want us so they don’t have to. So they won’t ever do it to save us for the embarrassment of being told no. And I think things like dick size things like other you know sexual body parts size, frankly, the size of my belly. Right it’s you know if I’m if I’m looking at a guy who’s got a perfect six pack, and I don’t Yes, I got a bit of a dad bod ladies, sorry to tell you. But you know, the reality is, there’s a lot of times where I look at somebody again, there’s no chance she’d be in to me. I’m going to save her the trouble. I’m going to tell her we’re friends I’m going to friendzone myself and I’m going to take myself out of the game we’ve talked about this ad nauseam here on casual swinger.


Wanderlust Cate  49:29

Hey, honey spoon How you doing? Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  49:32

Yeah. Great example.


Mallory Gordon  49:34

Yeah, fun mentioned in our seminar. Yeah, you did get


Mickey Gordon  49:37

mentioned in the seminar, honey spoon just so you know.


Solo Swingin  49:39

Well, I’ll just say, I don’t know. I haven’t listened to all the episodes. I don’t know how many single men you’ve had on the podcast in the past. But that that rings true even more for me because for better or worse in couples situations, there are plenty of guys who can lean on their wife or vice versa sometimes In those scenarios to go, Yeah, okay, maybe I maybe I am not confident enough or I don’t think I’m in their league, but I know my wife is. Yeah. And that’s, you know, that’s gonna be my crowbar so to speak in a very crass way of saying there’s plenty of guys that do that. But in my case, I take myself out of it cuz I’m like, I, it’s just me all I have to offer as me so either she’s into me or she’s not. And I will say, and I say to myself, there’s just no way I can tell from who she’s with. And that was, you know, probably earlier in my life. And you’ve come around to this notion of just because she has an Adonis, let’s say it doesn’t mean she always wants it. Adonis, doesn’t mean she doesn’t mean she can’t be attracted to somebody who isn’t an Adonis doesn’t mean she can’t be attracted to my brain, doesn’t mean she can’t be attracted to my sense of humor, or whatever it is. Thank God for that. But it’s also why the vanilla world bores me now because the vanilla world is so superficial. And that’s why it’s, you can’t get behind that. And


Mallory Gordon  50:54

I love that about you. But also it’s kind of hard to make up somebody’s mind for them without even


Solo Swingin  50:59

but yet we do it. It’s it’s, it’s unavoidable human nature, even though it isn’t. Yeah, yes. Yeah.


Mickey Gordon  51:05

It’s the great part about being married to Mallory is every guy thinks he has a shot after he looks at me. He’s like, Yep, I’m in.


Solo Swingin  51:11

I’m sorry. I’m gonna cue the violin section right now.


Mallory Gordon  51:14

And he’s got so rough, poor guy. You know, you never answered your own question. What was that about? Has anything about size ever stopped you from playing?


Mickey Gordon  51:24

No. Well, okay. Yes. Yes, it has not dig sighs Yeah, it’s one of those things where I mean, I’m not like, I’m not a horse or anything, but I’m fairly blessed to be better than average in that regard. Since I’ve never worried about it. Sure. There’s guys bigger than me. But half the time those guys are gonna look that going Fuck no. So I’m cool with where I’m at. You know, I’m, I’m somewhere between Goldilocks and the big bear. And I’m happy with that. You know, it’s, that works for me. But, yes. Obviously, my physical size has stopped me. You know, being concerned about guys being in better shape than me has stopped me. Things like, you know, my teeth have stopped me before when I get self conscious


Mallory Gordon  52:10

about. Funny you said that because I get self conscious about mine as well, because I have this like one little snaggle that just doesn’t want to do anything, no matter how many times I’ve had braces or corrective gear and whatnot. Like I just, I gotta snuggle. Yeah, like this one little like, Derby tooth. When I feel like I always smile to I always turn my head and smile and in a specific direction. So


Mickey Gordon  52:31

yeah, so I have definitely stopped myself for different reasons that are related to size, physical size, body attributes, but usually not genital. I’ve stopped myself because I haven’t had a haircut and feel like my head looks stupid.


Mallory Gordon  52:48

That’s actually something new because you just recently kind of had Harrisons, like the whole quarantine thing happens. And now you? Yeah, you’re definitely self conscious about that at times. Like you cannot miss your haircut. Yeah, I


Mickey Gordon  52:59

will not go to an event if my hair has grown out. Hilarious.


Mallory Gordon  53:02

I totally feel you. I’m not trying to be insulting.


Solo Swingin  53:07

Alright, does it grow in purple? Now? Is that official? No, it doesn’t.


Mickey Gordon  53:11

That’s a thing we got. That’s just so it doesn’t go gray. It makes me look younger. Now, yeah. So when we talk about some of the size things we’re talking about, obviously things like dick size things like labia things like how loose is a girl. But we really skimmed over the whole clip thing a little bit. Now we talked about the small ones. And I think we call those runners right over the place. Yes. And your bisexual gate and solar Swinging. You’re not but you do. You’re the fan of the clitoris. So?


Solo Swingin  53:42

Absolutely, absolutely. Chapter Chapter President.


Mickey Gordon  53:45

Have we all encountered a runner before? Do we all know what I’m talking about? When I say a runner? Like a clip? You just, it’s there? No, it’s over here next,


Solo Swingin  53:52

chasing a laser pointer.


Mallory Gordon  53:54

Yeah, that’s perfect. Actually. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  53:57

no, would you and I’ll ask both of you are all three of you actually as bisexual women and a very, very big fan of the clitoris. Which do you prefer? Do you prefer a larger clitoris? That’s you know you can find it you don’t have to be Batman to find it. You know exactly. Hey, from


Wanderlust Cate  54:12

Australia. I prefer a lady that tells me what she wants. I don’t care you know, I mean for me, clip size small big medium to the left hanging down low whatever it’s doing matters not to me. What matters is the fact that I’m already stressed trying to pleasure a woman It makes me so fucking anxious that I don’t know if I just wanted to tell me what’s going on. I want her to tell me what’s feeling good. I need to get I want her to give me direction. I want her to her body to move in a certain direction. I want her to vocally tell me I want her to move and give me signals. That’s it for me. It’s not about to quit whatever it’s doing it’s it’s all very willing good wherever it is. But if she’s not giving me fucking direction that it matters. No, it’s a moot point. Mic drop


Mallory Gordon  55:00

I got no here here. I can’t I could not agree more. The nonverbal and verbal communication of pleasure is way more important than the aesthetic.


Mickey Gordon  55:09

So you don’t have a preference in terms of whether it’s a runner easy to find, as long as she’s telling you whether it feels good or not. Yeah, but


Wanderlust Cate  55:16

just because it’s easy to find doesn’t mean that you’re gonna get her All right.


Mallory Gordon  55:19

And it fun fact, it doesn’t mean the clip is going to get her off at all, like some girls don’t get off. From clitoral stimulation. Sometimes it’s pressure sometimes it’s only individually like, really depends. So again, the clips, like, what it looks like, and its size is kind of irrelevant.


Mickey Gordon  55:36

So when it comes to vaginas, size does not matter.


Mallory Gordon  55:39

No, not for me. All right, how


Mickey Gordon  55:41

about you? So


Solo Swingin  55:42

I’m, I’m inclined to agree with all of that. I mean, I was actually just unexpectedly with someone who I’ve known for years and never played with and she’s been having major major back trauma. And it’s resulted in lack of sensitivity and Urkel tourists of all things. And I’m sure I’m sure those that’s a nerve with stronger knowledge of physiology and neurology can speak to that. But she was basically very upfront with me, she’s like, I can’t I haven’t had a clitoral orgasms in like two years. I was like God,


Wanderlust Cate  56:10

Mallory would literally die. I had


Solo Swingin  56:14

my level of hangry. So you know, but I agree with the spirit of everything that’s been said. I don’t Yeah, the only I think the only time it could become frustrating to me is if it’s somebody who has an unusually small Taurus, and you’re searching for it and you don’t get any visual cues yet, you think you’ve done all the things that you know how to do to find it, you know, you’ve pulled back to the clip, you’ve tried, right, you’ve tried left, you’ve tried upright, up left, you’ve tried down, you’ve swirling, you’ve tried every every thing you know, you may know how to do. And it’s you’re still not getting that spot that you know, you’re used to hitting where you get the arched back and to get this off Mo and then you get the thing you want that you’re going to come back to to get her off. Eventually,


Wanderlust Cate  56:57

the Street Fighter combo, left, left Down, Down, Right, so


Solo Swingin  56:59

the cheat code


Mickey Gordon  57:01

up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, ba select star.


Solo Swingin  57:03

There you go. So you cheat code for the couturier. So you’ve tried everything, including the cheat code, and you still haven’t gotten that, then you’re like, Oh, God, what I like then you sort of please just tell me where it is. Draw me a map, do something. But otherwise, no, I don’t think the size is completely irrelevant. It’s all result based. It’s all about knowing that it’s working for the


Mickey Gordon  57:23

ladies on this one. Is it? Have you noticed any correlation to guys with average or smaller penises being easier to get off than guys were bigger penises? Big maybe closer to get about that? I’ve


Mallory Gordon  57:35



Wanderlust Cate  57:36

know. I’ve not really. Honestly, I have not noticed any differential. I mean, if you’re talking about foreskin versus not. I mean, that’s probably part of it, too. You know, probably I’ve noticed it a little bit more there than in sensitivity wise and guys that, you know, don’t wear drugs versus do wear drugs on that whole thing. I think that can play a probably a part in getting off. But I mean, also, it’s a fucking mental game to write. So I mean, really, like, physiologically? I don’t know.


Mallory Gordon  58:14

Yeah, no, I don’t. I could not. I would have to sit down and run through my sexual adventures. Jesus,


Wanderlust Cate  58:21

I would take some time.


Mallory Gordon  58:22

I know. Right. And we don’t have that kind of time. We’re almost out now.


Solo Swingin  58:24

We’re doing a telephone. How much have we raised so far?


Mallory Gordon  58:27

I don’t know that there’s a correlation there for me, I would actually have to get back to you. But I have a question for you, Kate. What about scrotum ball size and ratio to penis size? Like a notch how each ball is I would be lying to you if I if I didn’t acknowledge that every time. I note all of those things. And but I like balls very much. So.


Wanderlust Cate  58:53

So Darryl has actually had testicular torsion twice in his life.


Mallory Gordon  58:57

Oh my god. So he’s that it’s, oh, it’s


Wanderlust Cate  58:59

twisted balls so bad. You should Google that shit. I’m not going to


Mallory Gordon  59:03

Google. I want to check later, please.


Wanderlust Cate  59:06

Um, so he’s had testicular torsion twice a different different times. And what that resulted in was him actually getting his bowls stitched up. Okay, so he has very tight, very nice Bulcock ratio, and I love it. I love his bowls. And I had never been with a guy who had like, longer bigger, you know, I just hadn’t seen a, I guess a lot of diversity and bold shape, size and everything else that kind of goes goes along with that. And, you know, which is weird for me, because when you think about boobs, and they come in all these different amazing shapes, sizes, whatever and they moved to the lab and they hang down here and they do their thing. I hadn’t experienced that a lot with bowls until I joined the lifestyle. And I remember years and years ago with a flatmate of mine telling me that when they were fucking in Dougie that had the guy that she was fucking he’s bowls would slap her clit Yes, from behind, and I would He’s like, I don’t understand like that, to me was such a foreign concept because I’ve never been with a guy that was like that. So I do I probably actually pay more attention to a guy’s balls than I actually do to


Mallory Gordon  1:00:11

his dick. Yeah, say


Wanderlust Cate  1:00:14

wow and I don’t mean to like randomly now give people a whole other set of fucking things to worry about running a ball pick


Solo Swingin  1:00:19

unsolicited ball picks now yeah, no, that’s fine


Wanderlust Cate  1:00:23

but I do I mean for me like Darrell has been they will never sag now like that stitched up like that’s very tight. It’s a whole thing and I it’s very aesthetically pleasing to me. He’s Bulcock situation that he has going on.


Mickey Gordon  1:00:37

Darrell we know now that you are aerodynamic.


Mallory Gordon  1:00:40

Do you guys register or acknowledge like the your your balls ball to Dick ratio, any like that or when you’re in the playroom? Someone


Mickey Gordon  1:00:49

jerky guys, when they’re in the way you hit a maximum?


Mallory Gordon  1:00:51

I feel like guys find them relevant from an aesthetic perspective.


Solo Swingin  1:00:56

I mean, other than manscaping? No, I really pay little to no attention to my balls. Fair enough. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  1:01:03

literally. I mean, you just yank them down about a foot and a half and then give them a nice shave.


Solo Swingin  1:01:07

I did have a Karla Christian to the one you asked earlier. This is actually born of an insecurity that I had when I was when I was much younger. But do you find any correlation between dick size and skill at oral?


Wanderlust Cate  1:01:22

Oh, I mean,


Solo Swingin  1:01:24

I’ll just I’ll just I’ll just say parenthetically, because I mentioned the insecurity, I’ll just say I, when I was first becoming sexually active and knew that I wasn’t particularly well endowed. Again, what I found out was nothing. Nothing different than average. But at the time, I was incredibly insecure about it. And so I set about to get general, get her off, make sure she gets hers, and then everything else is gravy.


Wanderlust Cate  1:01:46

Yeah, I will say that, especially this question that came from the seminar. And I, you know, I mean, I don’t mean to stereotype here, or kind of do. But I would say that for the guys that have been not necessarily maybe dick size, but for the guys that had been unable to perform in the bedroom. That’s it for them. They’re just checking out entirely and it is so silly to me, because I’m like, I am not just my pussy. Like, I have hands, I have my mouth, like I like my feet, if that’s what you’re into. And so for me the whole concept of like that one part of your body either being performing or not, or big or small. It is so strange that like that is the thing you focus on. So I would honestly say that for the men that had been unable to perform, or the guys that think that their kaka is big, and that’s their only playing card, they probably don’t spend enough time on foreplay. You know what, they don’t even fucking spend enough time on asking me what it is that I’m interested in? And can they fulfill my desires? So I would say that there probably is a little bit of ego involved there in people that might have that. And then they don’t want to find out anything else about you or your pleasure or how to do anything else. I don’t know Mallory.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:00

God, no, I’m not that has a correlation to size. And I think it has to do with the confidence and enthusiasm. More than anything else. I think somebody’s personality type. I do make a decision in the moment whether or not they’re good at Oral like having conversation with them if they’re the warm sense of humor. That’s more where I make the correlation versus excise. You


Solo Swingin  1:03:29

also heard like, people look at guys on the dance floor. They can tell if they can fuck right? I think we’ve all heard that at some point if you watch a guy in the dance, but you can tell if he can fuck so I want to talk to him because you can eat pussy.


Mallory Gordon  1:03:40

Yeah, yeah. are saying like, saying can you like are you good at that? Like I’ve, I? I think about those things, but I don’t know that I’ve actually made a correlation but like somebody’s gait how they walk male and female I’m like my bet they’re good and bad. I don’t know why that registers with me but it does.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:58

I would almost argue that people that are good listeners whether they’re men or women are better in bed because they actually pay attention to you what you’re saying your size your size


Solo Swingin  1:04:11

conversation about soccer a conversation about size is right Fuck 80 year old people they have giant brain size your size vocabulary size. Yeah, yeah, size matters apparently just depends what we’re talking about


Mickey Gordon  1:04:24

but more doesn’t always equal better. Yeah, right I think that’s


Wanderlust Cate  1:04:29

better less doesn’t as well just because somebody is a size fuck I don’t know what it is an American speak. We would say like a size six model in Australia but I think that’s probably like a zero here are some probably were more is not better, but equally less is not better. And that can be from a physical standpoint of like, oh you know she’s fit and she’s whatever versus like maybe I got some hips and maybe I got some my thighs and you know, my booty hangs a little bit lower than my watch shorts at lunchtime. Holler.


Solo Swingin  1:04:56

The conclusion then is that quantitative is just simply not Not a good assessment for almost anything.


Mickey Gordon  1:05:02

Yeah. And I will put that in a way that people that, you know, probably don’t have a master’s in English can understand a little better by saying that size matters. But it’s not holding you back. size isn’t the thing isn’t the reason you’re not happy size isn’t the reason that you’re not getting what you want.


Wanderlust Cate  1:05:23

Then it doesn’t propel you forward equally. It doesn’t say size, size matters, but it’s not going to be your saving grace or at your detriment.


Mallory Gordon  1:05:33

You know what I do kind of wish, though, that girls with big laybys had this incompetence of guys who picked


Mickey Gordon  1:05:39

like that, like a little bit of meat down there. I like I like something to play with, I think. Yeah, I mean, if I look down there, and I honestly, it’s one of those things because, you know, obviously pubis is a thing of the past today. And I think that when you you look down there if it looks you know, like hardwood floors, and there’s no meat to speak of. And there’s just this little slip there. I mean, I have no confidence. Unless I know you that you’re older than 12 like at least give me something on there that shows me you you’re a woman point


Mallory Gordon  1:06:08

like you do have to go okay, so how do I approach this? Because I mean, it’s like you can blow raspberries on it. That usually doesn’t work.


Solo Swingin  1:06:16

I want to believe there was a bean to flick right? Let me flick I need to find the magic beans somehow in a bean of significance is a beautiful thing. I want a needle point with that please throw pillow with a needle. Confucius Confucius a being of significance and


Mickey Gordon  1:06:33

we have run out of time here. I want to thank both Kate from Wunderlist swingers and sola Swinging for joining us in this conversation about size from New Orleans, Louisiana. We are going to go find some booze I think Mallory wants to get laid so


Wanderlust Cate  1:06:48

it’s all this discussions about clitoris and


Solo Swingin  1:06:51

what could possibly have gotten her?


Mickey Gordon  1:06:54

No idea. Plus, our good friend sola Swinging has got a flight to catch. So we’re gonna bounce out of here. Thank you guys so much for joining us Mallory. Before we get out of here. You want to remind everybody how to find us one more time. Sure


Mallory Gordon  1:07:05

thing we are casual swinger everywhere that’s casual Feel free to shoot us a message at podcast at casual Hey, are you enjoying the show? Because if so, please feel free to give us a review on iTunes. You can also find us as casual swinger on social media. That’s Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Instagram as well as the dating sites that’s SLS is to see Cassidy and W nation.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:25

That’ll do it folks. Thanks for joining us on this conversation on size. You’ve been listening to casuals