WhoreMoans! – Exploring Hormonal Wellness & It’s Impact On Sexual Health w/ Dr. Phillips

Recent Podcast

Casual Swinger Recommends

Dr. Phillips Center for Wellness

Nutrient Deficiency Warning

Healthline – BioIdentical Hormone Replacement Therapy

Amore Medical – The P Shot

Casual Toys

Rachal’s Rascals

Hedonism II Resort


Unique Condoms


Potential Benefits of Testosterone:

Improved Well-Being

Prostate Cancer Protection




Improved Body Composition

Bone Density

Erectile Function and Sexual Performance

Decrease in Visceral Fat and Subcutaneous Fat

Maint. of Muscle Mass=Metabolism

Increases Collagen and Skin Thickness

Skin Tone

Decrease wrinkles, fat deposition, cellulite

Lipid and cholesterol parameters




Immune response


Protects Neuro and Vascular system

Decrease IR

Decrease Syndrome X

Improves Metabolism


Potential Benefits of Estrogen:

Protects against Heart Disease



Vaginal Atrophy

Urinary Incontinence

Macular Degeneration



Hot flashes


Potential Benefits of Progesterone: 




Breast Cancer Protection

Heart Disease


Potential Benefits of DHEA: 

Precursor to other hormones

Immune System Stimulation

(Helps Prevent Cancer and Infections)

Sexual Vitality

Improves Erections

Improves Mood

Decreases Cholesterol

Improves Memory


Helps with Sleep

Decreases Visceral Fat

Decrease IR  (insulin resistance) 




Causes of Errectile Dysfunction: 




Poor Sleep

Low Testosterone

Advanced Age (decreases Nitric oxide)




Relationship problems


Self Image

Increased Cholesterol

Heart Disease


Hearing impaired? This podcast is transcribed for your convenience.

Edit Content


SE03E022 – Whore Moans_mixdown

Fri, 8/27 5:27PM • 1:11:01


hormones, testosterone, synthetic, people, bioidentical, doctor, females, casual, mallory, sex, therapy, vitamins, treat, feel, estrogen, bit, progesterone, medicines, big pharma, swinger


Mickey Gordon, Mallory Gordon


Mallory Gordon  00:02

You’re listening to the casual swinger podcast as your hosts, we need to warn you that the material you’re about to hear may be sexual or explicit in nature. This podcast is intended for an adult audience. Now we don’t expect you to act like adults. What’s the fun in that?


Mickey Gordon  00:16

We’re a married couple living in Florida with over 13 years of experience in the lifestyle and we take almost nothing seriously. Casual swingers a variety show meaning we’ll cover everything from music to events, travel, and even the occasional hilarious screw up. Our show is about entertainment. We’re not licensed professionals had anything and our stories, commentary and guidance should not be confused with the opinions of a licensed professional.


Mallory Gordon  00:41

Now that you know, let’s take those pants off and get comfy. Welcome back to another episode of casual swinger. I’m your co host Mallory, and my name is Mickey. And I believe this is the last one of season three.


Mickey Gordon  00:58

That’s it. Season finale. It’s over. We’re out. Fuck it. We’re done.


Mallory Gordon  01:02

Yeah, we finally made it after all of the trials and tribulations and delays and whatnot. Yeah, we did finally did it breaks. I know. It’s season three took like two years.



Season Three. Version. Yeah. Snyder cut. Snyder cut. Not allowed to drop geek jokes. Hey, I gotta pick up a thing or two. I’m really a geek in you. Probably from last night. Actually. He was a medium to larger size is a little bit


Mickey Gordon  01:33

different. We’re talking about something else. I’m talking about your week last week. Is that what that is? Yeah, we’re gonna Yeah, got a good start to the mice. Bloody summer. Oh, yeah. Good start. Yes. So not quite a little gig. Now. Huh? No, no fun. geek. Very fun. Okay. You like this one. Are you too? You’re gonna keep him? Yes. My favorite ball of yarn right now. Oh, boy. All right. We’ll get to that at some other point. Maybe we’ll talk about it. Let’s get to talk about what’s been going on. Yeah, we’re back in the saddle. We are here for the season finale. That is Episode 22 of Season Three of casual swinger, we are going to jump right back into season four. So don’t worry, folks, we’re not going to take our requisite, you know, month off break, because we did that twice. But we are mostly on time. If Mallory hadn’t been a little sick yesterday. Sorry about that, guys. We’re close. But what else is going on? Anything interesting.


Mallory Gordon  02:22

Um, you know, you’ve been spending a lot of time shipping Uber lube and condoms lately. It’s been ridiculous. That’s hilarious. Like every day, which I love it. Don’t get me wrong. No, I love it, too. I think it’s great. I mean, they’re really wonderful products. I’m so touched that we have this much support from the community. But what’s great is people that aren’t associated with community are starting to get word and using these products. And I think that’s great, because I know it’s gonna improve their sex life. But it’s also funny to see orders come in. I don’t know for like 20 packs.


Mickey Gordon  02:48

Oh, that happened. That was our largest condom order ever. And the best part was the people that ordered it. Were the same people that ordered the previous largest condom order ever


Mallory Gordon  02:56

get paid. Whatever the fuck they’re doing that weekend. We need to show but at least watch. I don’t want to see what’s happening.


Mickey Gordon  03:02

I just want to know how the hell you go through that many packs of condoms unless you were throwing like one monster party. And how did we not get it in? Right? No, yes, we’re talking to you to J and l you know who you are


Mallory Gordon  03:12

in so much. So cuz that’s we’ve got multiple orders that were more than 10. So you created a new discount code did.


Mickey Gordon  03:19

It’s called unique. That’s the coupon code. Sorry, I just do it again. No, sorry, I didn’t steal your thunder. No, you can seal up the new one, you’re running this shit. I’m just here. But now the coupon code is unique. And if you buy 10 packs of unique condoms or more, you get a 10% discount. That’s the only way to get a discount on uniques or to buy the size sampler if you put one of each in your cart. So one secure fit one pole one plus one double XL you’ll get 10% off as well. And that’s off of only four packs. But that’s so that’s the only way you can get a discount on uniques Yeah, so because we don’t make a lot of money on those now we don’t that we just love them. Yeah, there we buy them because we use them. Not as much as Mallory does, but we what Don’t be judgy Sorry, just throwing out some shame. It’s what I do now. I have no shame in my game this summer. Oh, yeah. So hey, what are we doing this weekend? Because we’re leaving here like two days.


Mallory Gordon  04:11

We’re going to Iowa no one shocked by No, but they may be shocked at how excited no one shocked by that either. No, but yeah, we’re gonna go see Justin jeric and celebrate the fourth and have some fireworks of our own. I’m going to bang


Mickey Gordon  04:23

boom Yeah. Alright, so sweaty. Summer continues. Mallory is going to Iowa. And Derek is put on notice it’s coming she’s coming for you. They’re big daddy thing. Oh my god. Yeah, dang will probably make an appearance while we’re out there. Love it is another. By the way, guys. We still have a couple of rooms if you guys want to come and see what this show looks like in person. We have one more trip with Rachel’s rascals is going to be our last one for a while. We’re gonna dial back and do some different stuff with you guys. But in November that is coming up. That is with Rachel’s rascals. If you want to check it out, go to www dot Rachel’s rascals our AC h a l s rascals dot com. That’s Rachel’s rascals calm for a trip to hedonism, two, we’re going to be there for 10 days in November. be the last one for a while. So if you’ve never been with us and you want to see what the hell that looks like, make sure to join us.


Mallory Gordon  05:11

Yeah, please do that. No, we don’t we’re almost sold out in our block. And there are two weeks that they’re doing sources the 13th to the 20th I believe Yes, that is correct. Before us so if you have any questions, go to casual swing comm slash travel with us shoot us a message and we’ll get you in touch with the right folks.


Mickey Gordon  05:27

That is how that works, too. And, uh, hey, something else coming up that we’re not going to be a part of is p cap encore.


Mallory Gordon  05:32

I know. Kate’s like, fuck. These guys are no longer allowed to come. Yeah, we’re not welcome. Just kidding. Unfortunately, it just doesn’t work with our schedule because bugs have right against our Hito trip. And as much as I’d love to take all the PTO in the world. My boss said No, fuck that you won’t be employed. So we kind of need our jobs. I do. I mean, he’s rolled his fingers right now. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  05:49

in this podcast. Yes, that’s true. Because we don’t make any condoms cuz we the condoms aren’t cheap. Yeah, well, it’s okay. It could be worse. But hey, you know what, I’m actually kind of excited about this. Because we are actually going to St. Augustine right when we get back the very next weekend. We get back.


Mallory Gordon  06:06

I know, we’re so we’re so lucky. I’m excited. Yeah, I got us tickets to Jimmie Johnson and whiskey Myers. So we’re gonna be hanging out with two very wonderful couples that are local, semi local here to us and heading up to Auggie for the weekend. We can actually call these these guys. Slightly sophisticated and a one three mischief.


Mickey Gordon  06:24

That’s correct. Yeah, they’re two of our favorite couples anywhere in Central Florida. And we get to hang out with them together. They’re all sexy as fuck, they’re fun as hell to hang out with. We’ve done a bunch of stuff with these guys in the past. So this is gonna be kind of, it’s kind of the same feeling I get when we hang out with other content creators because they’re people that just get it you know, their parents are professional. Yes. So we always have a lot to talk about, but we don’t. And this is nothing against being Mickey Mallory, but we don’t have to be Mickey and Mallory that weekend actually kind of get to be


Mallory Gordon  06:50

well and Vicki Miller are are us, right? Yeah. But they’re a part of us. Right? They’re not all of us because we’re very unique and complicated human beings with a vast, you know, interest in many other things. Aside from singing,


Mickey Gordon  07:02

I am not. I have sex, ie. That’s it. There. I’m like, an inch wide and an inch deep.


Mallory Gordon  07:09

Whatever. You just never mind very basic. Nevermind, I’m moving on. Now. I enjoy spending time with him. So I’m looking forward to that.


Mickey Gordon  07:16

Yeah, I need to and it’s not like I said, you know, like you said rather that there’s nothing wrong with being Mickey Mallory. It’s just it kind of like one of the things that happens to you as a podcaster. And those of you that are listening that are podcasters know how this feels. But it’s you meet somebody new and they have listened to your show. And they go Hey, remember that time when you and it’s just that, that doesn’t happen? Right? When you’re hanging out with people that just kind of know you for you. So


Mallory Gordon  07:38

yeah, that’s true. And that that I mean, I think it’s so flattering. It’s so wonderful. But it is funny when I catch myself telling a story we like yeah, we heard that. All right. We’ve


Mickey Gordon  07:46

heard that story. Tell us something new. That’s embarrassing. Like we don’t have anything else. Oh, you guys for 66 hours already. So especially


Mallory Gordon  07:54

like the first 12 months of quarantine. We’re like we have done anything. Let me tell you, I reorganized my bookshelf. It was so exciting. I know. I started yoga and then stopped the same day.


Mickey Gordon  08:05

Yeah, well, that’s when I put your legs up over your head was Oh, you’re talking about yoga. Oh, I felt like yoga. No, no. Stretching and farting. No, that’s what I call that. Anyways,


Mallory Gordon  08:13

we’re also looking to get away for like, a weekend, are we because we haven’t really done that. Just you and I know.


Mickey Gordon  08:18

Actually, aren’t we talking about renting a room like that Friday night? Actually, I think I already did. And yeah, so So when we’re going up? We’re going up a day early. Oh, yeah. And we’re gonna stay at the signature Marriott signature hotel right there in downtown St. Augustine and take some cool pictures for you guys.


Mallory Gordon  08:34

Oh, yeah, we’re gonna dress me up this time. We’re not going to be behind the camera.


Mickey Gordon  08:38

Nobody gives a shit. Nobody wants to see pictures of me. It’s all Yeah, come on. We’ll do our style. Oh, yeah, that’d be great. That’d be like and let’s go back to pictures of Mallory. No, Well, anyway, what’s this episode about? What are Why are we here because we’re just kind of waxing poetically. And it’s about horse. I love horse,



or is it amazing? Can we get some more wars and making horse modes? Yeah. Make it? How do you make hormone? Oh,


Mallory Gordon  09:06

no, I’m saving that for later. Oh, I promised our guests that I tell some cheesy joke. You have cheesy jokes. Okay, I didn’t even have to write it down. I just know them. Oh, off the top of your head. Yes. So this this episode is about hormone wellness. hormonal wellness. Yes.


Mickey Gordon  09:22

Yeah. Yes, it is. And so which means we have a special guest for you. Our guest is right here in the casual swinger studios in sunny Orlando, Florida. He’s to my left right now I’m gonna introduce him we come back but his name is Dr. Phillips and he is an established and well regarded doctor in the space that I think you guys are going to get a lot of information out of we’re going to talk about just kind of how under diagnosed hormonal wellness is right? I mean, your hormones control so many things in your body.


Mallory Gordon  09:48

That’s true. Maybe it’s not just under diagnosed. I’m looking for this conversation because I think we’re just we are aware self awareness is a big part of your your overall care, right your overall wellness as it is Individual you’re responsible is not just your doctor’s responsibility. It’s your responsibility to communicate the things and changes in your life. And we, especially my experience, weren’t aware that, hey, that this is something that we could manage or improve upon. It’s not just a fact of life you have to deal with.


Mickey Gordon  10:14

Yeah, it’s and I mean part of it. I think a lot of the things that we call getting old, like maybe it’s it’s your pains or your sleep schedule, or just your general how you feel, right? We’re just like, Oh, god, I’m getting old. I can’t remember how many times I’ve said it, but it’s what Yeah, yeah, I’m still getting old. But that doesn’t mean I have to feel old in the process,


Mallory Gordon  10:35

right. And think about the psychology behind it our grandparents that our parents did it, so we just see, maybe subconsciously, we see it as a rite of passage. Yeah,


Mickey Gordon  10:41

they’re fucking dead. And it’s fucking sucks. Yeah, there’s no doubt about it. No, fun. No, but you know, I was gonna take this opportunity. And this is, you know, we’re gonna have some fun with Dr. Phillips today. But I need you guys to know how I got here. Because this isn’t just an episode about getting laid or improving your sex life or anti aging. I was at a point in my life. So we’re gonna take a quick second here for you guys and kind of tell you how this happened. There was a I had a car accident a few years back that some of you know about, and it fucked me up pretty good. I was not okay. And I went through a really nasty depression after that car accident. And this is just before casual swinger happened. And I thought that was just me. I thought that I was just depressed. I thought I was that that, you know, it was just one of those things. And maybe I needed to go see a doctor and get on drugs like so many people do. But I wasn’t sleeping. My my physical health was declining. I was gaining weight in weird ways. I felt like I felt listless and but lethargic at the same time. There were so many things about how I felt they were so fucked up. And you dealt with it? I mean, you were you were a champ dealing with it. Because I was awful.


Mallory Gordon  11:53

Well, I mean, it was scary. Because you you didn’t know you’re asked from your elbows, no stays. And it was very, very frustrating for you. And I felt for you and everyone that we saw individually. Really just wanted to hand you a band aid and had nothing to help. I’m going to give you to help you. Yeah, well, and yeah, drugs or physical therapy and physical therapy can take you so far, but it doesn’t. It doesn’t always treat exactly what was going on with you.


Mickey Gordon  12:18

No, it really didn’t. But the reason I’m telling you guys this is not for any kind of sympathy or anything or and certainly not to be a shill or an advertisement for for this type of therapy. But what I can tell you is everything changed. And I mean, literally everything changed in my life. When I met Dr. Phillips and started into and started going through hormone therapy, what he realized after he did the blood work, he talked to me, which is what he does, right, he talks to you first he treats patients, not numbers. So one of the things that happened when I met him was, you know, he said I had some of the lowest testosterone numbers he’d ever seen. And which is not just aging, right, that was clearly something from the accident had screwed up my ability to produce testosterone. Because for a person of my age, it was really low. And it had never been that way. I’ve been with the horniest dudes on the planet forever. But I mean, my interest in sex had gone away my ability to sleep. I mean, I went days without sleeping. Yeah, yeah, five, six days sometimes like scary territory. Yeah. And all of this changed. And what I’m telling you guys is as fucked up as I was, it all changed when we started getting my hormones. Right. So what we’re gonna do we talk to Dr. filibustering a little bit is talking about what hormones do in your body, and what sort of changes and also what sort of fairly common maladies and conditions that proper hormonal wellness can avoid things that we’re actually taking meds for that you don’t have to if your hormones are in the right place, because you never have the fucking problem in the first place. Amen. So I’m pretty excited about that. And I think it’s important that you guys pay attention to this. This is one of those casual swinger episodes, that’s going to fall a little harder on the edge of the edutainment side of the scale, and have some fun, they’re gonna get learned. We got to learn you in the season finale here today. So we’re gonna come back here in just a couple of minutes after Mallory tells you guys how to find us with Dr. Phillips Mallory beautiful Hi, when she told my turn find this all right.


Mallory Gordon  14:15

Yeah, we are casual swinger everywhere. You can find us casual swinger calm have a question want to reach out podcast at casual swinger.com is her email address love us want to say something nice about us. Go to iTunes. Feel free to leave us a review there. You don’t like us? Sorry. We’re also on social media. You look sorry. Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. You can also find us on the dating sites. You wanna check out a profile? That is W nation, Cassidy STC and SLS. Holy moly. It’s


Mickey Gordon  14:45

a big old long list. And you know what, nobody’s left us an apple review in a long time. So we haven’t pissed anybody off. We haven’t made anybody happy. It’s like we’re right in the middle. Oh, are people indifferent towards us? Because that’s conflicting. That’s what maybe we should just say something really offensive and see if somebody did that. once asked, but no that’s not offensive. That’s weird.


Mallory Gordon  15:03

I just finished supernatural. So Oh, if I had any any supernatural fans out there, we’ll totally get that.


Mickey Gordon  15:09

All right, we’re out of here for a minute. We’ll be right back with the amazing Dr. Phillips Ladies and gentlemen, you’re listening to hormones the season finale of season three of casual swinger. Hey, everybody, welcome back to casual swinger. I’m still making and I am Mallory, but we’ve got one extra person here in the beautiful casual center studios in sunny Orlando, Florida for once this fucking month. Dr. Phillips How you doing today?



I’m doing terrific enjoying every day that goes by and just happy that eight millimeter kidneys don’t pass last week because now I’m back in the game 100%


Mickey Gordon  15:53

Well, wait a minute. doctors don’t get sick. Like that. That’s bullshit. So what happened?



They do maybe some tend to ignore it more than others but you know, thumb to take care of these things when they arise. Okay, so you’re gonna have to do that.


Mallory Gordon  16:06

I’m glad you survived. That’s that’s pretty impressive. eight millimeters. Whoo.


Mickey Gordon  16:09

Yeah, that is no joke. But you’re actually in studio, which is really cool. We appreciate you coming out to what people call the casual swinger compound, but we happen to know as a small hovel that you know, just just big enough for me Mallory and a couple of dogs.



There are some pretty big and scary dogs. I won’t even come into your house until you come to the door. There’s just do not enter and I don’t care if they know me smell me, whatever. But I I’m afraid of your three of them. And they’re all scary. They’re just big babies. It’s basically serverless with three acil But


Mallory Gordon  16:40

I tell you what, I never feel unsafe when I’m home alone. Ever.


Mickey Gordon  16:45

I don’t blame you. everybody walks through the door does Yeah. We do have three Rottweilers the casual dog is actually three dogs. Yeah,



there’s little tiny Rottweilers by the way. They’re like the big head. Big body ones that Yeah, look at and you don’t really think about hitting them and reaching your hand?


Mallory Gordon  17:02

Yeah, they like all three of them look like they need saddles. This is this is true.



They’re nice otherwise, but I just make sure Mickey standing next to me when I pet the dog.


Mallory Gordon  17:10

There you go. Well, let’s get this started. So first of all, if this isn’t the first time you’ve been on our show, we actually had you join us with Dr. Nicole eyes and brown for the episode called the sick dogs. And that’s where we kind of like tease that we do this episode. So since we’ve talked to you how things been,



everything’s been great. I’ve been doing a lot of console’s lately, I enjoy very much what I’m doing. I do see that this changes a lot of people’s lives. I don’t want to make promises for everybody. But I will get to that later. And really excited to hear the stories when from the patients like Nikki who had a life changing experience from it, because there is things that your body needs. And when we don’t have them, we do have to release them.


Mickey Gordon  17:51

Yeah, no, that’s a fact. I think what he’s talking about and we actually haven’t talked about it on the show. But during the sick Doc’s episode, we talked about erectile health being the canary in the coal mine for cardiovascular health. Yeah. And I got a message three weeks after that episode from a listener who had gone to see their cardiologist. And this fucked me up actually, this messed me up for a while, he went to see his cardiologist because he’d been on Viagra from his family doctor for seven years, and never gone to see a cardiologist for the actual issue that he was having. He was having a true dysfunction issue, not a swinger insurance issue. Not I’d like my dick to work better, which is where we all are, I think everybody wants there to be a magic wand. But at the end of the day, he went to a cardiologist. And he had three completely blocked arteries. And one that was I don’t remember the exact number, but it was a significant obstruction to the point where he was dazed from a cardiac arrest. And because he listened to this show that we did with you guys and Dr. Aizen Brown. He’s live. Yeah, what are the chances, right,



it’s an amazing thing. And when we talk about that later with erectile dysfunction, just for the people who might not have listened to that podcast, you know, that may be the very first sign of cardiovascular disease because the vessel is smaller. And so if you have that, even though there’s many other reasons, you know, you should get that at least check to address that with your doctor. Because here’s one example where someone just heard that for the first time, and it made a life. They’re alive today because of that. Yeah. So very much. So I definitely think that while there’s many reasons people have erectile dysfunction, and go through those later, don’t ignore it. Don’t just say, Hey, listen, I’m having a problem. Let me just make it better. Let’s always look for the root cause of problems rather than just treating symptoms.


Mallory Gordon  19:34

I love that I love that approach. You know, I’m also a patient and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate that. From that perspective. Before I hand you over to Mickey real quick let’s let’s have listeners get to know you again or get to know you a little bit. So can tell me about your credentials. Where’d you go to school, how long you’ve been practicing medicine, all that good stuff.



So I’ve been practicing over 25 years now I went to Nova Southeastern family practice. board certified. I did do mostly urgent care in my career. And then probably about five to seven years ago, I started getting more into the wellness realm because I kept seeing patients when they used to be on three medicines when I started urgent care. And then they were like five, and there was seven. And then there’s 12. And I just watched people’s list grow. And they were also all the patients I saw in urgent care. And to me, that’s not a healthy person, who’s also on all those medicines, why are they so sick? And when we go to medical school, every single doctor has the same thought in mind. How do you prevent disease, we our goal is prevention. But then you get to medical school, and all they do is how do you treat things? I took my boards A few years ago, and almost every question was What do you use to treat blank? Everything was pharma, pharma, pharma, pharma. And you know, it’s interesting, they’re not even pharma reps that even come into your center anymore. They’ve already brainwashed all the doctors into writing prescriptions for everything, they don’t need them anymore. And as as, and you know, it’s not always the doctors fault. You know, patients have to take accountability, like Mallory said, but what happens is, is that you get on so many medicines, they create all these other problems, and they’re never really getting to the reason you don’t feel good in the first place. It’s always the band aid approach. And so I got tired of looking at all these medicines. And rather than complain about, you know, Hey, why are you on this and not doing something about it? I’m the type of person who doesn’t complain, I’d rather just do something about it. And I started studying, studying functional medicine.


Mickey Gordon  21:21

Nice. Well, and I think we’ve come a long way. Right? One of my favorite movies is a movie called a million ways to die in the West. And, of course,



I literally just watched that last night. No joke. I don’t know. That’s very random. But I literally watch it last night. It was hilarious.


Mickey Gordon  21:36

It is an utterly hilarious movie, everything about that movie is hilarious. But you know, the doctor in that movie is treating a patient by having a bluejay packet is wound or something, right? I mean, just like the doctors basically killed you in the 1800s in the West, and we’ve gone from that, which because that was a parody of something that was actually real, right? I mean, putting magnets on wounds and and treating it with these kind of crazy treatments to today. Everything’s pharma, pharma, pharma, pharma. So you kind of covered, you know, how you got here in terms of wellness. But I mean, it, what is wellness? Is it anti aging? Is it disease prevention? Is it a cure to something that ails you? What is wellness, if you had to put kind of a fine point on it? Yeah,



wellness is teaching lifestyle modifications, like what you should eat, what you shouldn’t do avoiding certain things. And a lot of the information that’s out there, unfortunately, is presented by Big Pharma. So they’ll tell you don’t do this, don’t do that. And it actually creates some problems. But wellness is really the prevention of disease, what I would be labeled at is more functional medicine, functional medicine is actually looking at the body of the whole as a whole, and trying to get to the root cause of the problem rather than just treating symptoms, versus integrative medicine, which does that, but also uses some pharmaceuticals. Before I sound like I’m totally anti pharmaceutical, maybe for the most part I am. But some people have diseases and you’re not going to reverse them or the damage is done and and pharmaceuticals can be life saving. If you have diabetes, that’s uncontrolled, it’s not going to go away in a day. So you need to treat that. So you don’t get the adverse outcomes. But I do believe in pharmaceuticals. My son has Crohn’s disease, that’s very personal to me. And he has to take a pharmaceutical for it and it saved his life. I’m not anti pharmaceuticals, I am anti pharmaceuticals for the prevention of disease. I’m okay for the treatment of disease and urgent care that was satisfying for me, and I still do urgent care. And I like it because you sometimes need to use those to get somebody better and keep them out of the hospital and whatnot. But I feel it should be more of a temporary use than Hey, you know, and I’m not going to go into a cholesterol diatribe. But here take this cholesterol medicine because your cholesterol numbers what we’re treating here, that leads to a whole host of other things. So I think that pharmaceuticals have their place, but I don’t I don’t think they have the your substitute for looking to cure the problem at hand. I think they’re a patch treatment at most.


Mallory Gordon  23:58

Right on so let’s dig into like the hormones a little bit here. So you’re obviously a big proponent of wellness, through both vitamin and hormone management. So why is that? What is? Why is that better than I hate to say the sucking from the proverbial teat of Big Pharma and stuffing like that into our collective mouths on a daily basis. So why why vitamins and why hormone? Yeah,



you know, I look at wellness as three foundations of health. There’s vitamins, every cellular reaction in your body needs vitamins, if you don’t have them, something’s going to suffer at some point. You know, you don’t just put gas in your car, you put oil in your car, you need windshield wiper fluid. If it’s raining, there’s a whole bunch of things that you need. So like the human body, you need vitamins for every reaction. So if you’re missing something, something’s going to suffer. You know, a healthy guts important because that’s where your neurotransmitters like serotonin are made. It’s how you absorb your vitamins and it’s also pretty much the cause of all autoimmune disease. So a healthy gut is the other foundation and hormones which you have two types. You have your metabolism hormones, thyroid, as you might have heard, and then you have your sex hormones, which is a testosterone Other things that we’ll talk about today. And those are the foundations of health. And I look at them as all equal, because you can’t really say, Oh, well, if you can only do one sort of thing, like, if you could only do one of those, it doesn’t replace that. Because the fact of the car analogy, you need everything to make it run perfectly. And I look at those three as the foundation of health. And if you have all those optimal, and you’re not feeling good, something else is going on. But that’s the route that you need.


Mickey Gordon  25:24

And when I kind of thought about putting this together and begged you to come join us on the show, because I do recognize what a big deal this is, I kind of thought about it strictly from the hormonal aspect. And that’s not all you do with me. I mean, you feed me vitamins on the regular as well. So, hormones, vitamins, it’s all kind of a big deal. What sort of issues come from hormonal imbalances? What kind of things occur in people that have these imbalances that don’t get them checked? And don’t address these at an early stage? Yeah,



well, if things like your vessels or your brain aren’t healthy, obviously, you’re aging, and I don’t want to claim anti aging, maybe you age better or slower, so to speak, you know, you’ve all seen a 70 year old that look like they’re 50 and acted like it, and maybe the 70 year old that looks like they’re 90. And you know, part of that is hormones. Part of that is the lifestyle. And you know, there is a part that’s genetics as well. But you know, hormones, you know, I’m gonna be careful on some of the stuff I say on the podcast, because there’s plenty of studies out there that prove the right. And then there’s always something synthetic from Big Pharma that shows shows the wrong Sure. And most of the problems people hear about when you’re dealing with sex hormones, in particular, are testosterone and estrogen actually come from the synthetics, because your body does not recognize them the same way they deem them close enough to, or maybe it’ll work or maybe your liver processes it and then it’ll work, you know, then it’ll recognize it. And that creates a whole bunch of problems. And I think we’ll get into into some of those. But, you know, just to clarify, when I talk about hormones, we’re referring to bioidentical hormones, and bioidentical hormones are, your body doesn’t know it didn’t make it, it looks exactly the same as if you produce it yourself. They are made from yams. And no, you can eat a bunch of yams and get the same amount of like testosterone or whatever. But your body says, you know, hey, where you been? Or, hey, I’m happy to have more. It knows what to do with that hormone. When you’re dealing with synthetics. Unfortunately, for Big Pharma, you can’t put a patent on nature. So they cannot have a pharmaceutical that they do a study on that’s specific to that pharmaceutical company, that they can charge an arm and a leg, and maybe it only killed a few people, but they still get it passed. And you know, synthetics are really what the problem are because your body has never reacted to your own hormones. Maybe if you have too much of them and unbalanced, maybe, but talk about that. But I think that you know by when we’re talking about this, we’re referring to bioidentical.


Mickey Gordon  27:46

Well, so obviously, it’s a little scary, the things that can come out of this and you kind of started talking about bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. I want to ask a question. That’s kind of related to this because as we after we did the Deke Doc’s episode, I did talk to a lot of people that were undergoing different types of therapies. And if you go to your regular doctor, you go to your regular doctor, they can treat you for whom random or hormone imbalances or rather a lack of presence or hormone, but they don’t treat you with bioidenticals. They treat you with a synthetic hormone. In females that estrogen comes from horse piss,



I believe, yeah. Premarin, pre mer, like near horse urine. Right. So I didn’t know that. Yeah. Interesting. What’s your not a horse? Why do you need horse? You’re in and out? Yeah. So


Mickey Gordon  28:31

our bioidenticals you said they’re, they’re, you know, made with yams. But what’s the difference here, man? What are we really talking about? It’s



a natural substance that they’re making. It is made in a lab, but it’s from a natural, you know, something that exists in nature. It’s not synthetic, which is purely manmade. Or you’ll get testosterone, and it’s combined with something like sippy and these are the parts that cause all the problems. What are some of those problems? Because that’s really what I want people to hear, what risks are you mitigating by going with a bioidentical pathway versus,


Mickey Gordon  29:00

you know, what could be a synthetic pathway, which is what your doctor is characteristically offering you. And this is the same doctor that’s giving that’s giving you Big Pharma, his teeth to suck alone as well.



First of all, you’re even lucky enough if your doctor checks for your hormones. And I will tell you, 99.9% of doctors don’t even check the right thyroid hormones. And I know those aren’t the sex hormones, but they are just not trained that way. And they’re trained like let’s say thyroid, because I think it’s a good example, to write Synthroid, synthetic thyroid, which doesn’t even have the active hormone, p3 in it, it’s only t four. And so you’re trained one way or you’re you’re taught to order a lab one way and you’re treating that lab results, whereas your patients sitting in front of you telling things that are very obvious that they either have hypothyroidism or subclinical hypothyroidism, and all of a sudden they’re like, well, your labs are normal. So there’s nothing to treat there. They’re there. They have synthetics that work with certain labs. And that’s the way it works in the traditional medicine world. And, and, you know, to get to your point, I think it’s important first of all, that you even get your hormones checked in. They don’t have the time or knowledge base, maybe maybe not all of them must be for most to do bioidentical hormone treatment, because there’s other procedure involved, but at the very least, they should know how to write a bio identical cream. And I will get to the creams in a moment, I think that there’s a lot to be said to the question you asked earlier, that if you’re missing your hormones, you ask what things are going to happen. So, you know, cardiovascular disease, and all timers, and certain cancers, and how your vascular system is osteoporosis, all of these things have a hormone balance associated with them. So when you replace them, you don’t get it. Now, some things you can reverse a little after the fact. But the whole point is not to wait until you have everything, and then try to reverse the damage that is done, because that’s not always possible, right. So you know, I don’t want to read off a list of saying, Oh, this is gonna cure cardiovascular disease, just gonna cure heart attack, this is gonna treat awesome. But But, but in essence, you’ll find studies that show that they do. But if you make the claim on it, and you haven’t done a study on that specific testosterone and spent a gajillion billion dollars like Big Pharma can do, you can’t really count this as being like, you’re going to get that many people will. A few may be non responder won’t. But at the end of the day, I can tell you from my experience of 1000s of pellets and people what it’s done for their lives, what it’s done for their labs. I have a great story, I’ll share it. It’s a quick one. But I have a diabetic that came in and I’m not making the claim that cures diabetes, but I have a diabetic who came in his sugar was in the upper three hundreds, which is very close to and hospitalized. Yeah, is a one C was almost 12. And in three months with no medicines. Now, I had to write him a medicine for that. But he couldn’t tolerate it. But so with no medicines, I wrote him one supplement, thyroid hormone, testosterone, and I give him credit because he ate better. His diabetes was gone. No, three months. And I said that to the knowledge is almost like, have you ever seen that happen before? That’s how much, you know, testosterone can play a role just in of itself. And in particular, that would be the strongest of the things that I mentioned, and getting this guy back in to help.


Mickey Gordon  32:08

No, Mallory’s chomping at the bit. But I just have one quick thing that I want to throw in here. All right, go for it. Don’t let me forget my question. I want my grandmother used to say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Is that what hormonal therapy probably 10 pounds? of say, Sorry? No.


Mallory Gordon  32:21

Yeah. So when I the first time we talked about hormones, and I left her office, the you mentioned anti aging and don’t want to make any any claims. I don’t think you are all whatsoever. But the analogy that sits off in my head is like a domino effect. You ever seen those intricate videos where they set up all these little like, almost like mousetrap, but on a very large scale, I think what you’re doing is slowing down that domino effect to the best of your ability. Because, I mean, your body is going to



try to remember the ball that starts right at a point, right? I mean, you can stop any of those from happening, just stick your hand in front of one of the things and it’s not going to go any further. Right? Right. But the goal is is not to it’s not to start the domino effect of happening, right. And, you know, I’ll talk about when you’re ready, each of the, you know, specific hormones and what they may do for you. But the lack of them is is evident in, in people, but we’re so used to feeling bad these days. We just write it off. And we’re like, yeah, I’m getting older, like exactly how I said and, and, and, you know, I mean, I don’t want to call him out, he did actually have the lowest testosterone of any of my patients. And, and there may be reasons for it, but it’s irrelevant. If you’re missing it, you put it back in. And that is a game changer in your energy strength, libido, endurance, cardiovascular protection, your muscle mass, oh, visceral fat in your body, you know, which is the fat you don’t see the one that can go around your livers. That’s what triggers diabetes. And when you push more into the muscle mass that it gives you without even working out, you know, that was you know, why this particular patient flipped from being a diabetic not to he had just gained his weight over a certain point, which tipped him towards diabetes. And as he lost his visceral fat, started eating right and got his muscle back, it was a very short process for him to become a non diabetic at that point. So, you know, there’s all of these these, you know, there’s, you know, even just for the skin, there’s just so many benefits testosterone in particular has in its body, and I know, we’re gonna talk about some other hormones like estrogen, but there’s so many benefits to that. And think of women, they hardly have any to begin with. So it’s even more of a game changer for them. Maybe it’s equal. I don’t know. Uh, you know, my life is wonderful. It’s definitely ginger.


Mallory Gordon  34:29

Yeah, it’s funny that you just mentioned men and women. So I, I want to ask you about side effects because I have one that was a little unexpected not unwelcomed per se, but a little shocking at first. So with with my therapy after the second round, I noticed that my clit has actually gotten bigger. And I at first, I was a little taken aback. I mean, now it’s like our favorite new toy and everything but what other side effects could like potentially men and women expect? I mean, you just named a bunch of good ones right


Mickey Gordon  34:59

beside of can be good, right? This is a good time for us to include a whoo sound effect and applause sound effects. We love Mallory’s clit sound effect, Emma fuckers awesome.



So there’s a fine line in that. So the clitoris is very similar to the penis, in fact, if you took a lot, a lot of testosterone would start to look like one. So you’re gonna get increased sensitivity from that. And then there’s a fine line. And it’s and it’s really the patient’s decision of where that is where they’re, hey, got a little too large, or I don’t like the way it looks anymore, or there’s a sensitivity and it may just be the smallest change of dose, you know, to keep you happy. That is one of the side effects of it. You know, because it’s testosterone there can be so if you’re prone to facial hair, you might get a little bit more with it. So if you’re the type of person that plucks once, once a month, it might be twice a month. There are some things you can do to block that, but then you’re going back into the synthetic world, or the visual there. Yeah, I just get wax more often. Yeah, yeah. So um, yeah, and so that’s, that’s like a minor thing for men, the testicles will generally shrink, that’s very common in your, because your body’s shutting off its own mechanism of what making a little testosterone it was making. So you know, I refer to that as a decoration. So you shouldn’t be like to like, Oh, my gosh, you know, it is what it is in there. If somebody is postmenopausal, and you’re giving testosterone, there’s always a chance they might have a menstrual cycle again, but it’s usually that’s, you know, that’s a little bit more when you’re adding estrogen into the picture, because estrogen is what makes your uterus prepare. So for pregnancy, or those with sheds every month. So, you know, that can happen again, I’ve seen that happen. But that is really a balance of estrogen and progesterone. You know, I maybe this is a good point to talk about it. I hear of so many people getting fibroids in hysterectomy is and you know, if you’re the type of person had gall bladders, or heavy menstrual cycles, or PMS all the time, it’s usually progesterone deficiency. And so when you give estrogen, you want to make sure that progesterone is balanced with it. But every doctors like, you know, they go into like, Oh, he’s gonna cut out my uterus. And I’m like, we give it like a few months chest and progesterone first, see if we can calm it down. If your fibroids too big, maybe it is what it is. But at the end of the day, this whole imbalance that goes on for whole life cycle is just an estrogen dominance, which by the way, if you’re the type of person who gets a little bit of facial hair, that’s because your estrogen is not really balanced with your progesterone. So the balancing of hormones is very important in here. And not for nothing. And this is one of those disclaimer things. But you know, I’ve I’ve, you know, studies that back, you know, there’s two tests, there are two breast cancer protectors for female that’s testosterone and progesterone. Oh, on set,


Mickey Gordon  37:26

that’s awesome. Well, the other thing I you know, you asked about, like physical side effects. But one of the personal side effects I’ve seen from you, is me, yeah, your sex drive is. Even in my sleep, I’m like, dry on my leg. I mean, she’s just like, now all the time. And you were a horny person. When we do. I mean, you you had a, I was a natural horn,


Mallory Gordon  37:49

I did. But I actually I slowly tapered off over time. And it wasn’t as prevalent to me because it happened in such a slow fashion. And then you know, of course, like jobs are demanding and like, we’re so busy, and all these other things come into play, you just you play it off to life, right. And you never give it a second thought. And I would have never imagined that starting the therapy, I would feel as good as I am today. Because I thought it was fine. You know, I really didn’t have any complaints other than we weren’t having sex as much as we used to and



write that off. And that’s actually the females feel they’ll feel that in a week. And then you know, and it’s why I always recommend that the men get there’s a week or two ahead of the female


Mickey Gordon  38:31

thing I’ve seen is we have both become more physically active, like we just aren’t, we’re not comfortable sitting around doing nothing.


Mallory Gordon  38:36

No, I’m working out five days a week and nothing crazy. Like I’m not a big leg lifting weights or like exercise person, but I need that outlet, that movement in my day, just to feel good. And sometimes it’s just walking on the treadmill for 2030 minutes. Like I just need something.


Mickey Gordon  38:52

Right? And it’s hormone therapy is amplified the effects of that as well. The positive effects of physical activity or muscle mass builder. It’s



how you know, when everyone goes through, you know, puberty that’s, you know, the prevalent it’s, that’s how you build muscle mass. It’s really important one Sure.


Mickey Gordon  39:07

Well, since we’re talking about the HRT or bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, which is the type of therapy that we’re talking about here today, let’s talk about this. How is it administered? And why is it better than patches or injections or creams? Because a lot of the guys I know that are on testosterone therapy, and I actually don’t know any women other than Mallory that have told me they’re on therapy for it. And of course, maybe there’s lots of other reasons they would be right, postmenopausal, that sort of thing, but when we talk about guys that are on it, almost everybody is getting an injection in their ass or getting a cream or something like that. What’s the difference in how this is administered? And is it better or is it just different?



It’s it’s, it’s different. And the negatives happen with the synthetics more commonly. So if you look at testosterone and someone’s giving a shot, you’re spiking up their level to a number that could be as high as 2500 or Holy shit. And that’s, that’s, that’s too abnormal. Okay, you know, basically you’re going to stay in the 1000 to 1500. Okay, um, will convert some certain amounts of free testosterone as we get older, we convert less. So the free testosterone is what I’m really looking at. But since we’re, most people know about the total testosterone, so generally I’ll put guys in between 1015 100 milligrams. And what happens is, is they give themselves a shot, there’s no lab drawn, so we don’t even know where it goes to. So they’ll feel amazing for two days, and then they’ll feel okay for two days, and then it’s gonna be out of their system Two days later, and then they’re feeling really crappy until they give themselves the next shot. The problem is, is that the stacking effect could also occur. So if let’s just say, they went to 2500, and only fell to 1000, and then given themselves a shot, they might go to 3500 Next time, and you keep getting the stacking effect. And all of a sudden, you have these guys at such a high number, you increase the chance for the back that it’s synthetic and more clots or heart disease or not the bodybuilders doing these because their testosterone is so high, you’re building muscle kind of everywhere. There’s just a lot of negative side effects that occur to it. I can’t imagine they have a great attitude either.



This is roid rage,



this is roid rage. Yeah, this is really the definition of roid rage. It’s why it occurs. Now obviously, also some bodybuilders using horse steroids back to the horses again, but Jesus, you know, what is it with people in horses? I have no idea. Maybe the guys think that we’re as big as


Mallory Gordon  41:14

everyone. Yeah. You just talked about the injection. So he said patches, cream. And those are also synthetic. Great. So



yeah, so one you can get you can get bioidentical, but stay on the subject of the of the synthetics, you know, when you get the prescription from your physician, they’re actually generally telling you to put it on like the inside of your arms or inside of your thighs or other things in your absorption can be different, your sweat can be different. And on once again, you’re back to this synthetic that your body’s not recognizing, so I don’t find them to be as efficient. And there are studies that show they have, you know, more side effects, when you deal with progesterone, which is an oral capsule, in when it was was called provera. And that was causing breast cancer and people back to the synthetics which the bioidenticals don’t don’t cause. So when you’re when you’re dealing with synthetics, the absorptions can be different, but you’re dealing with something that your body is having to deal with the fact that it doesn’t look exactly the same as what your own body made. When you’re dealing with bioidenticals, your body knows how to use it. And there’s three ways to get that in you. The first way, which is the most common way that we do is pellets, where you stick in pellets or the size of a grain of rice. And depending on your weight, how many you get, and that absorbs into your body over a five to six month period for men, and about a 10 to 12 weeks for females. And that gets you to a certain level and you stay in that level. And as it fades off over time, you know the the effects are still there, because all this protective stuff is happening at the doses that we give, but some of the stuff you feel will diminish towards the end of that. And that’s when you do it again. And you’re not getting this spike up to here and this inconsistency you have it, you don’t have it, you have it, you don’t have it. And when that happens, you’re not getting all the protective benefits of what bioidenticals can do for you. As far as creams are concerned, when we use bioidentical creams, they’re actually intravaginal, or for the males that would be on the testicle and behind. So that’s where the receptors are. So you’re putting it right where you want the cream to work. And so they work better. And your body’s also recognizing it right away. There’s no conversion thing having to go through the whole body to recognize. Now you can use sublinguals. But that’s really the band aid approach, because that might make you go up and down a little bit. The reason I mentioned that is because if you’re getting towards the end of therapy, it may be a little early, your number may be too high to get your therapy. So we’ll give you like a little boost to last you over until it’s time for the way that we normally do it. So maybe it’s my insurance plan.


Mickey Gordon  43:29

But you’ve never offered to rub cream on my balls in your office. Because I mean, how do I how do I make How do I get on that plan?



Yeah, insurance won’t pay that kind of fee that I wish. I was sure that would be denied. But I feel like you’ve asked me to do that. So I guarantee you. I’m sorry. Thanks for still seeing me. Nurses, please.



So you know, the insurance doesn’t cover this because it’s it’s natural medicine, and they don’t have the $3 billion study and all the pharmacy backing to get these things approved. And there’s really no reason that it shouldn’t be covered by insurance. If you just look at that one case of somebody whose diabetes went away and I’m not making the claim that it does that for everybody. But just think if you get people’s health back now, now do insurance companies benefit if you’re healthy all the time? Well, maybe you might not need your insurance policy and you might drop them right so you know people were healthy all the time. Maybe you don’t need insurance. You know, just big pharma wants you to be healthy all the time. No, in fact they give you medicines that leads you to get more and more medicines. If you take antidepressants we were back to the vitamins. If you don’t have vitamins like the B vitamins you don’t make your neurotransmitters and guess what you take antidepressants and then you take antidepressants which block the B vitamin pathway so you never get off of them it’s ludicrous what happens in the in the pharmaceutical world I I will have Mickey on post at the bottom of this thing this vitamin A nutrient deficient blocker and how many medicines you take whether it’s reflux medicine, you know the number one thing that blocks the most vitamin pathways. What birth control Lucia Oh, I believe that birth control blocks so the more than any other thing and then females are like I’m fatigued all the time Tyrell, though. You have no vitamins. Yeah, so you gotta have to take vitamins with it or you know, figure out but but that’s the land of all the things hilarious females are tired all the time. And it makes sense.


Mallory Gordon  45:09

Well tired felt like crap. I was 2425 when I got off oral contraceptives, just because I couldn’t, I couldn’t mentally or physically handle it anymore. I was a single mom, I had to work three jobs. I didn’t have time to eff around. And I was like, if I have to abstain from sex the rest of my life, so be it. I just can’t feel this crappy anymore. I feel terrible. Oh, it’s awful. So, I mean, I think maybe this is a good segue to discuss this. I mean, we’re not exactly talking about postmenopausal hormone replacement. But you know, are we I mean, we’re kind of going down that path you just mentioned, you know, females birth control. Are there any differences in the treatment regimen at that point? Like any, any? Yes,



there are for females. But I do want to say that, if you’re not feeling right, this should be part of everybody’s workup. I’ve had 22 year olds with 200. Testosterone, which is like, how did they go through puberty kind of thing? Or how are they ever going to have kids? I mean, don’t look at it, you know, there’s a lot of things that can block hormone pathways like soy and alcohol and other things that can do it. But at the end of the day, you should just check your levels if you’re not feeling good, because I think that’s part of being a thorough physician. Um, the what happens, and so anytime in your life that you’re deficient, you can either replace which for men with like under 300, or you can symptomatically treat, it just depends on what your levels are. When females get menopausal, they’re not making estrogen anymore. And estrogen is very important. It’s part of Alzheimer’s prevention as part of the vessels. You can get dryness and painful sex and all that stuff. When you go through menopause, and you haven’t had estrogen for for anywhere between three to five years, these things will happen. But why wait to reverse that. So if you’re missing estrogen, females would get estrogen after menopause. That would be one difference. And I want them to mention about estrogen is probably the only one that whether bioidentical or synthetic can cause problems. You always make sure someone doesn’t have breast cancer before you get estrogen, whether it’s synthetic or bioidentical. Because if you have an estrogen receptor positive breast cancer, you’re going to make that grow. Right. But you don’t really have to worry too much on the other things. This is why we do in part of screening as we do. PSA is in men, although testosterone may treat there’s a big study out there for the treatment of prostate cancer with testosterone. But more interestingly, is when do men get prostate cancer, they get older, and when their testosterone the lowest drops, and they’re amazing. Girls don’t get it. If testosterone did it, if I’m giving you the same testosterone that your body’s making, why would you think there was a problem? You really wouldn’t all over the lot in a lot of the negative things that happen from hormone replacement happens because it’s synthetics, and those are the ones you’re going to hear about why they pull them off the market or nobody writes them anymore. Or all these clots and everything synthetic synthetic synthetic, you hear less, to none of that on the bio identical side of it. Interesting.


Mallory Gordon  47:47

Now, I am not Perry are postmenopausal Is there anything I should know? Like is like will this cause early onset of menopause?



No, none in any way, shape or form? I’m just giving you more of what your body’s already making or stopped making if you were menopausal. Yeah, so wonder if it’ll postpone it a little bit? No, it doesn’t do that your body has, you know, like this, this egg timer, so to speak. So, you know, I mean, when, you know, we don’t replace the estrogen until you stop making it and but that’s the importance of doing labs, I mean, you have to listen to your patients see what their symptoms are. And the labs are reference ranges for us in this field, they’re not the be all end all, you know, there’s a there’s some people need a little bit more or a little bit less, and you adjust based upon what the patient tells you. To me, their reference ranges, you know, when you look at labs, you know, the the laboratory will take a study of let’s say, a bunch of 40 to 60 year olds, and then they’ll check their levels and say, Well, most people land here, that’s, that’s normal for your age. But that doesn’t mean anything. What why why would you not want to have the benefit of having a higher testosterone when you know all of the benefits of that just because all the other people who are aging are down there? We call that the we call that the optimal range? In functional medicine. Not not the not the the normal range? Maybe it’s normal for your age, but you know, who wants to be old and dying?


Mickey Gordon  49:04

aging? Because everyone else’s? I see no one’s hands raised. Just us. I mean, the social media analogy, most people are stupid. Do you want to be stupid to because most people are no, no, I’m sorry. Social media is the dumbest among us. I’m done with social media, but you know,



females when they take talking about Facebook, okay. You know, when females take hormone therapy, they will call you when it’s gone. Sometimes you have to chase it men down, we’re used to feeling a little worse, but the females will say, I think it’s gone I need to I need to come in, it’s that big of a change from the way they work to the weight and the way they can be. And I also want to say another disclaimer, you know, my, my personal success rate but maybe in general is 95%. You know, this doesn’t always work for some people, the form of it may not be taken well. This isn’t the be all for any this does not erase bad diet. This doesn’t raise stress. This doesn’t erase poor sleep. There are things that this does not do and maybe it helps you get through Some of those things, but at the end of the day, I don’t want to say like, this is the, this changes your whole life and then your life’s gonna be better once you take it. I mean, I think you’re going to be better protected from the things you don’t see and feel on protecting the insides. Ultimately, that’s why I got into it. That’s the prevention part of this. Everybody can come in for whatever reason, they want you to get all the benefits as is. But you know, most people will come for like libido, or sex drive or muscle mass, or these sorts of things, or fatigue. That’s generally why they come in, and I don’t care why they come in, I’m going to treat their their symptoms, because I know I can make those better, but I’m doing it to prevent you from getting strokes and heart attacks and all the other things that I believe hormone replacement brings to the table. Yeah, and also sounds like we need to do our job to like I quit smoking, no. Smoking, I’m very excited. It’s so important,


Mickey Gordon  50:44

but you can’t save us from ourselves. But you can make it last longer. Right? So I mean, if people with bad habits with good hormonal wellness are gonna live longer than somebody with bad habits and bad hormonal,



I don’t want to say it that way. Cuz you don’t know how bad their bad habits are. I just want to tell you, you can improve the quality of life and have some prevention in there. So maybe, but you know, if you’re, you know, all you do is eat fried food every day and not exercise. And you know, you’re, you know, 400 pounds and you’re stressed and you never sleep. I mean, playing video games. I mean, you might not live as long just because you have some hormones in there might feel tougher when you’re in the game. Maybe I don’t play.


Mickey Gordon  51:22

Right. So we had Dr. Aizen brown on and we talked about some pretty aggressive treatments. I think a needle in your penis is always aggressive, but borderline miraculous treatments in terms of improving erectile health in men, or we’re talking about is the P shot the O shot Gaines wave things along those lines. So do you think that getting your hormones in line comes before getting those aggressive treatments? or after? And should they be used together? Do you think that these are conjunctive treatments to improve things like erectile health or sexual health and women? Yeah,



it’s a great question. First of all, the erectile dysfunction thing is is so many features to it, no matter what the answer to your question is, hormones need to be evaluated and need to be replaced. That’s That’s for sure. It may be only helps erectile dysfunction in 35% of men. A lot of people think like, Oh my gosh, my libido is up. So you know, my junk, so to speak, is going to be there as well. And it may help but it there’s so many factors with erectile dysfunction, I’m actually in a moment going to read off a list because you know, you have a lot of listeners, and it may strike a chord with one of them all of those factors that can cause erectile dysfunction. So yes, it may help with that. That’s not the 100% answer to it, maybe 35 to 40% will get improvement with it. And that being the sole cause they don’t even know exactly how the testosterone works in the basal dilation that happens to create erection. So it’s an interesting, you know, side note to there. As far as the more aggressive treatments, I am a little bit more conservative, depending on what the root causes Gaines wave would be good for somebody with a cholesterol problem. The shot, maybe maybe well, for someone who’s tried some other things, I tend to lean a little bit more towards doing maybe medical therapy, like the Viagra, Cialis, which by the way, when you get over 40, you stop creating nitric oxide as much. And that’s actually what causes the erections. And so even supplementing with nitric oxide may be part of the answer to your problem. It’s good for blood pressure, and it’s good for flow. So there’s even supplements that you can consider. So I’m I tend to be more on the conservative side. So less is more reporting back to the Replace what’s missing sort of approach? And, you know, like I said, I’m not anti pharmaceutical, because I think sex is an important part. I mean, it’s one of your core desires in life, you know, it should, you know, food, shelter, water, sex sort of thing. So as low so yeah, I mean, I would, I would, I would say that it may be helpful for a certain population, but it won’t be all of them.


Mallory Gordon  53:49

So this is we’re talking about boners and erections here. The having the hormones make sex better for men, is from my perspective, the sex has gotten really great for me, especially with the way I’m balancing or volleying between the different types of orgasms I’m having. So I’m interested to see does that have an effect on men,



so it may have an effect on men, maybe the orgasms are longer or feel better, but it’s, it can certainly be way more pronounced in females. I was listening to a podcast the other day, it was the Joe Rogan podcast I give him credit there. He’s interviewing this evolutionary biologist from Harvard named Carol who. And she talked about the about using hormones in people going on undergoing transgender operations. So people have known what it feels like to be a female and have a certain amount of hormones and then have the male hormones and vice versa. It’s interesting because the obviously the aggression factor there, but but even in the objectification of women, that females, you know, started looking when they had the male hormones. At the same way a guy might look at a girl like you know, sort of getting more aroused. feeling more aggressive? You know sexually about the female? Which some females don’t understand the way men think. But I can tell you men don’t understand the way women think


Mallory Gordon  55:09

I will tell you the most mundane thoughts sometimes will will turn in very dirty in my head like it’s it’s crazy. I something I didn’t anticipate I see that as a positive side effect, because I like them to get about sex more. But it is times it is funny. So I’m just I’m curious if it like has the same effect on guys because we were talking about


Mickey Gordon  55:27

I definitely seen a difference. Yeah. And and the orgasms may change to starting to read harder to get, honestly.


Mallory Gordon  55:33

Right. You they are Yeah. Me my clip clip from my clit. Yes, they can be harder to get, but I can still have multiple but I’m having more vaginal orgasms. Oh,



it’s very interesting that you say that because I was actually gonna ask you the question not being a female, and they’re not being a lot of studies on this. I would have, I would have suspected the other way around, because the clip gets more sensitive. And I would have expected those two different types of orgasms to lean more towards clitoral post.


Mallory Gordon  55:59

That’s interesting. Yeah. And maybe it’s mean, the way I’m built or where my mind is, I was always harder for me to get off vaginally than it was for my clip, because I could always control that I was on the outside, the manipulation, the pressure, the position was different. magically, there’s really you know, only so many angles you can go out from and you know, essentially one spot to really hit. And now it’s, it’s I can get with both of them, or just independently, virtually, and I can get that one more than I can. Literally which is is crazy to me, and I’m loving every second of it. Um, but yeah, so I was just wondering if it would kind of those imbalances, how positively they could affect men, because I’m having a great time over here and I don’t have a penis. So I don’t know, if you, maybe you were saying that. What it’s harder for you to get an orgasm. But when you get it, what does it feel like? Oh, it’s


Mickey Gordon  56:49

like thunder and lightning at the same time? Yes, it’s really it’s intense, debilitating.



There’s they’re stronger and more powerful. You know, there’s when you go back to the erectile dysfunction question, you know, there’s so many things with stress, and blood pressure and medications. And, you know, maybe it’s better for we just stick the list at the end of the podcast, because it’s a lot. But I feel like, if you’re having a problem from a rectal standpoint, obviously, you’re you should have already checked your hormones. If you replace your hormones, and you’re still having a problem, look to these other things. Because you know, maybe it’s too much alcohol, maybe you’re on a blood pressure medicine, you know, there’s just so many reasons you can have it, that may be a quick fix, or an adjustment or a treat, so that you don’t have to end up taking a medication or even going further and getting a shot in your penis, as I’ve witnessed Mickey get, which was actually, you know, being a physician, you’d think I wouldn’t get anything but not queasy, but like cranes, like oh, my God, yeah, you did leave a gigantic needle in my deck. That was impressive. It was not just the needle, the amount of fluid that had to be in that thing is impressive. Now, you know, well, I won’t get too personal and it’s my small penis. That’s that. I don’t want to go there until everybody. chase you down after this. I already


Mallory Gordon  58:09

do in between the between his hair and his dead. I’m just beating him off of sticks at this point and get in line single fine. Ladies single file.


Mickey Gordon  58:17

Yeah, you know. So we talked a little bit earlier about, you know, the fact that you don’t cover and rather insurance doesn’t cover this procedure, at least the way that you do it. Now, when folks go to their regular doctor, and they are diagnosed with a hormone imbalance or not having the proper amount of a hormone. It is oftentimes covered, but it’s covered with a synthetic, is it worth it to go synthetic? Or should they cough up the cash and do bioidentical? I mean, do you feel very strongly about bioidenticals? That, if they can afford it, they should go bioidentical. And I know that is a that’s a fairly directed question. That’s asking your opinion on this. So you know, we won’t obviously hold you to love doing it one way or another. But there I think there’s a big difference here. And I think the bioidenticals actually have a place in a case. Right?



So what do you think so if we separate them progesterone, there’s no way I would take synthetic estrogen. There’s no reason not to get a cream. I don’t think the prices are that great, where you shouldn’t get an estrogen cream if that’s what you’re using in that regard. All right. I am anti synthetic testosterone. And I don’t know if I would ever justified and just to put it in terms of costs associated with this. You’re talking for testosterone, maybe 100, maybe a little bit more a month. So this is not like it’s 1000s of dollars to have this therapy. And I would tell you to skip a fancy dinner out one night and get bioidentical before I would ever put a synthetic in my body that I didn’t need to I am fairly opposed to it. You know, I will tell you for going to your regular doctor and they’re willing to write your script they they’re just not knowledgeable enough to Tell you the difference between the two. So they just write the script and maybe save a little money. People’s co pays are different. So I don’t even know what it was maybe spend $100 a month on hormone replacement your whole life. I mean, there’s nothing more important I’d get a second job before I put synthetics in my body. I hate to I hate to bash it. Because, you know, it’s like, you know, it’s like kind of the end if you do damned if you don’t, if you don’t have testosterone, that’s a problem, too. Maybe you won’t get some of the side effects. And I hate to be in that position when I know it’s so easy to do the other side of the coin. And you know what, you do this for a living, you’re allowed to have a little bias in there, right? Because you see it and you believe in it. And even if you did any research, I’m just anti synthetic anything the most that you can be like I told you before, there are some things for people have diseases and you need to take them. Yeah, but if you if you have a choice, it’s never going to be the


Mallory Gordon  1:00:51

synthetic. As far as I’m right there with you. If I only have processed cheese food, I will skip the cheese. Yeah, I don’t need I don’t need to fake stuff. That’s oil. That looks like cheese. Yeah. Why is that my favorite cheese back off? Back off



my vote. I know exactly how to hit your taste buds. Yeah, they do want to talk about spending money on science. Well, you just described the processed food industry. I mean, they can make things that taste like chicken has nothing to do with the chicken, right? I mean, it’s just incredible what they can do. And you know, this, add a sprinkle of gluten and some MSG in it. And you’ll love that food forever.


Mallory Gordon  1:01:24

Yeah. Alright. So in your opinion. Yeah. We talked about the bioidenticals not being FDA approved. You know, what’s your opinion as to why why why might they not be?



Well, the FDA will approve bioidenticals not for the insurance reason. But the labs that they come from, which I order from which are 1% of the labs that are 503. b labs are FDA approved facility so they can sort of approve them that way. But you know, who wants the FDA and the CDC and everything else? Yeah, they’re owned by somebody. Yeah, Big Pharma. China, you know, it’s sorry, yeah. Now that now everyone who called us confusing conspiracy theorists now knows that actually, we were preaching the truth that just everybody far behind. So you know, I don’t tell them there are some important things that the FDA does do, but it’s never in the benefit of anything. In the health worlds things like supplements. vitamins, yeah,


Mallory Gordon  1:02:21

I always thought Food and Drug Administration was a funny organization. Like, why are they both together?



Yeah, you know, they’re actually, they’re actually more of like, an advertising blocker agency basically say what you can make claims on and what you can put in print, rather than having all the testing done through them. So it’s, it’s mostly a bunch of lawyers, right? I’m thinking I’m just guessing. If you look at the cycle, who runs the FDA, the CDC and the Big Pharma, you’re gonna see like the same names going across the little loop there. I’ll let you Google that on your own like my high school superlatives. Got it. I’m not gonna go into the highest paid person in government right now. Fauci but that guy save that for a different show that son of a bitch. Anyways. Alright, so sorry, if I picked a bunch of people off at the


Mickey Gordon  1:03:11

beginning we were gonna piss somebody off. That was the whole point. Time magazine’s Man of the Year. Right. We’re gonna get an apple review. That’s Oh, I love Fauci new son of a bitch. Yeah, I



can’t wait. It’s gonna be great. But it’s gonna bounce right off my shoulders. I’m just gonna put it out there for you in case somebody doesn’t want to waste your time typing. bother insulting Dr. Phillips, he does all negative comments to PO Box.


Mickey Gordon  1:03:36

Mickey a casual swinging. Alright, so let’s summarize this thing a little bit. It just in a we’re gonna do this quickly. But the benefits of bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, the downsides of bioidentical hormone therapy? Also, how does this affect the sex because this is a swinger podcast? So does it make your sex life better? And where can they find a doctor that specializes near them and bioidentical? If they want to? So I’ll unpack all of that. I’m Amy and I asked long questions, it’s what I do.



So the benefits, it’s they’re really too many to list and this I think, that’s one of the things I will put at the end of the podcast about what it can do for your, the things you see and feel are the things you the reasons you came in. And you’re gonna know if they work right away, because if you didn’t have any drive, or energy or muscle mass or fatigue, you can start seeing all of those things at the onset of treatment and relatively quickly, three days to three weeks is really when it when you’ll feel it. It’s not the type of thing that takes months and months to build up. And then the negatives, you know, I spent I don’t spend a lot of time talking about the negatives because they’re, they’re things that you can deal with, and they’re not scary negatives and everything that that would be scary would be rare and usually would happen from a synthetic not the bio identical, but when when I’ll put that also in the slide part. Yeah. How does it affect this? Well, here’s the thing. You know, you’ve already experienced that, that it improved it and I will tell you, if you’re Any sex is better than no sex. And if you have another veto, and you’re not having sex, you’re already ahead of the game now that the fact that you’re in the mood, and now you’re having sex, so you can look at it just from that standpoint, but the response is going to be different for everybody. Like I said, I’m doing this to protect, what you can’t see or feel. All of the other stuff is really patient dependent, and can be adjusted by doses. But I would want everybody to feel that, in particular, as amongst all of the other things that one would want to take hormones for. I always try to achieve that. And that’s just a little bit of touchups of dosing. So I don’t wanna say, Oh, it’s gonna be the best sex you’ve ever had. If you had it. It is a lot for some, but sorry to be boring, boring and repeat myself. But, you know, if you’re not in the mood to have sex, you’re having sex, you’re missing out on one of the enjoyments of life. And if you’re in the mood and you do it, I don’t even care if you’re alone. It’s still better than not doing that at all. That’s the truth, huh? Yeah. So if you’re trying to find someone who does it, just look up bioidentical hormone replacement. Sometimes you’ll see the initials bH RT. And just look up what it’s local to you, there will be somebody advertising, it’s pretty popular. This is not a new therapy. It’s been around for at least 40 years. And so this you’re not gay, I’m in the newest latest grade. This is well studied. Well practice. And there’s plenty of practitioners out there. If you’re interested, just in doing a console with me, even if you can’t come to town and provide ACA provide therapy for you, I can’t do an online consultation, they generally take an hour to an hour and 15 minutes. So there’s no like, big thing, I need to see a whole history, we can order labs, I wouldn’t be able to treat over the phone if you’re not in South Carolina or Florida. But at least you got a really I know I do give a good console. So if you’re interested, he or Mallory will post a link at the bottom of this.


Mickey Gordon  1:06:50

Sure. And that’s probably a good way to get started. Right? If they don’t know a doctor, normally, maybe they can just find out by doing an online with you in a zoom session or something like that. And at least finding out where they’re at, they may not be able to get their therapy necessarily, but they’ll have their labs out of the way. They can kind of go from there. I’ll give them the advice and tell them what they need to do. I’ll



recommend a dose for them. But then obviously, if it’s pellets that they choose, they would they would have to go to a local provider. Sure.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:15

Unless they want to come to Orlando, you know, see the house mouse and then come see you.



Alright, one day I’ll go to hedonism. My wife’s never gonna let me go. But I say that and I’ll bring a whole bunch of pellets with me and we’ll make it a whole party.


Mickey Gordon  1:07:25

There you go. I think YouTube would have an amazing time. We’ll work on her. Yeah, we’ll just we’ll just poke her a little bit. Like Come on. It’s gonna be a good time. Just like, hey, they’re grooming me. All the time. Like No, honey, relax. Yeah, cuz you look at us and you go absolutely predatory, right. Yeah, that’s the notorious guys. You guys aren’t like that. And she knows that. She’ll still make the joke. I know. She’s so sweet. Well, that’s fantastic. Well, Dr. Phillips, you have made a gigantic impact in our lives. We’ll say it here publicly. Thank you very much for doing what you do. And doing it the way you do it, explaining this to our listeners in helping them normalize this a little bit, because I think there’s a lot of guys out there. And obviously women too, cuz I’ve never heard one talk about it. And maybe they shouldn’t talk about it to men, but that we just don’t talk about this shit. We don’t talk to each other about hormonal wellness. And for me to say that my testosterone was in the shitter. That’s emasculating myself. Because testosterones disdain, we’re macho, we’re big. We will pass you know, and all this stuff. And then you realize that Well, my testosterone is in the shitter. And I’m all fucked up. So that is hard to say. And you made it easy for me to say, by explaining this to me in such a way, and I realized it wasn’t my fault. It wasn’t just getting old.


Mallory Gordon  1:08:35

I was always fascinated by that reaction to because I’m like, you have no control over what your body decides to do in that facet. Like, it’s not I get that it field or felt field. I got something on my mind.


Mickey Gordon  1:08:47

Yeah. Boys in your mind. Field folks. Felt emasculating. But it really shouldn’t. And I still didn’t get a chance to tell the good doctor my joke. Oh, you know what? We should? That’s how we should end the show. Yeah, hung around all this time for the hormone jokes. Here they are. Valerie. What’s the difference between an enzyme and a hormone? And nothing medical? You can’t make an enzyme. Yeah, nothing. Did it did take me a second. I thought you’re gonna tell the other joke. How do you make a hormone that you don’t pair? put sand in our loop? No. Yeah. Guys, all right. We got to get out of here. This has been long enough. This has been hormones with Dr. Phillips. If you want to find out more about this, make sure to come to our website and check it out. We will have some information for him in the show notes at the bottom or you can get it in the show notes of any of your favorite podcast apps. Again, he is Dr. Phillips. He is the good hormone doctor here in Central Florida. Mallory want to tell everybody how to find us in case they don’t know. At this point


Mallory Gordon  1:10:01

so we are casual swing are everywhere you can find us the casual swing calm she just messaged podcast at casual swinger calm. We are on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. And you can find us on the swinger sites that is W nation SLS Cassidy and STC.


Mickey Gordon  1:10:17

And folks that’s a wrap on season three of casual swinger. We’ll be back and not too long with season four all new music all new high jinks. Thanks for listening and listening.