Your Cheatin’ Heart – Examining infedility in the lifestyle

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Ask any married person if their relationship is perfect…if they’re being honest you’ll hear something to the tune of “absolutely not.”  Every relationship has its trials, and as many as 45% of relationships include some kind of infidelity.

Lifestyle relationships are not immune to the allure of infidelity.  This week Mickey & Mallory examine the nature of “cheating,” how it happens, and how it relates to lifestyle relationships.  We get honest about our experiences, and talk about some ways to avoid the pitfalls surrounding infidelity in ANY relationship.  Bonus:  In the Toybox this week we talk about strap-ons, the different styles of harnesses, and a single pro tip if your guy is into pegging.

New York Times – When a Partner Cheats

Great infographic on cheating – Hernorm.com

Hernorm Infidelity Statistics

Why so many women cheat on their husbands

Casual Toys

Sportsheets – Boy Short Harness

Joque by SpareParts – Harness

Her Royal Harness – CalExotics

Rachals Rascals

Liberator – Bedroom Adventure Gear

Hearing impaired? This podcast is transcribed for your convenience.

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Your Cheatin Heart – Examining Infidelity in the Lifestyle

Thu, 9/2 10:04AM • 1:22:45

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

cheating, relationship, infidelity, talk, casual, people, women, sex, feel, harness, fucking, lifestyle, swinger, nice, wife, question, mallory, monogamous, men, couple

SPEAKERS

Mickey Gordon, Mallory Gordon

 

Mallory Gordon  00:11

Welcome to casual swinger. If you’re under 18, the following podcast is not appropriate for you. The subjects and language are for mature audiences only. If you’re not mature in nature, just make sure you’re old enough to vote. We don’t take ourselves seriously ever. no guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any opinions or statements made on this podcast or website or a blog. It’s all in fun, folks. This isn’t Dr. Phil. Now consider yourself the listener properly advised.

 

Mickey Gordon  00:46

Everybody, it’s that time again. Welcome to casual swinger. My name is Mickey. And I’m Mallory. This is all exciting and just like I don’t feel like shit right now. We’re gonna

 

Mallory Gordon  00:57

hear so sweet. So FYI, Mickey’s face is literally sliding off his skull right now. He’s battling a migraine but good for you for soldiering on

 

Mickey Gordon  01:05

a pros play hurt.

 

Mallory Gordon  01:06

Yeah, yeah, I’ll totally carry this.

 

Mickey Gordon  01:08

Oh, good. You’ll do all the work today.

 

Mallory Gordon  01:10

Yeah, but you know, only like single syllable words. Okay,

 

Mickey Gordon  01:14

so I can’t see syllable. You can do all the work in bed later.

 

Mallory Gordon  01:17

Sure. Just lay there.

 

Mickey Gordon  01:18

Awesome. All right. It’s my turn to just lay there. Hey, I’m kidding. It was

 

Mallory Gordon  01:22

my birthday.

 

Mickey Gordon  01:25

Okay, everybody. So what in the hell is going on? What are we doing? Why are we doing another episode right now? Both because it’s been two weeks. It’s that time? Yeah, we’re due and no guests. Nothing crazy. This time, just the two of us.

 

Mallory Gordon  01:38

The two of us. Now I’m not gonna sing.

 

Mickey Gordon  01:41

It’s really good that you don’t

 

Mallory Gordon  01:42

Yeah, it’s better if I don’t know. So

 

Mickey Gordon  01:44

we’re gonna talk a little bit about a subject that I think kind of freaks people out a little bit, especially in monogamous relationships. But in non monogamous relationships, a lot of people don’t think it’s a thing. And it really is. What are we talking about?

 

Mallory Gordon  01:57

Are we talking about cheating?

 

Mickey Gordon  02:00

fidelity, despicable cheater adultery? So let me ask you a question. Mallory. Yes, Nikki, murder somebody for the rest of your life. You’re a what?

 

Mallory Gordon  02:10

I’m a murderer.

 

Mickey Gordon  02:11

If you lie to somebody for the rest of your life, you’re a what?

 

Mallory Gordon  02:14

I’m a liar.

 

Mickey Gordon  02:15

If you cheat. Are you a cheater for the rest of your life?

 

Mallory Gordon  02:18

I don’t I plead the fifth. No. That’s an interesting point you make though.

 

Mickey Gordon  02:25

Yeah, it’s I think that there’s these brands that carry us through life if we if we do something, maybe that’s considered nefarious or an act of infidelity. And those can be a lot of things. So we’re going to talk about that a little bit. Today with you guys. We’re going to talk about our views on infidelity. And maybe if they do not apply to the lifestyle or don’t apply to the lifestyle, and yeah, maybe how we look at infidelity as a whole.

 

Mallory Gordon  02:46

Yeah, I think it’s an interesting conversation to have, because I think it scales both to vanilla, traditional relationships, but it does apply in lifestyle too.

 

Mickey Gordon  02:55

Well, I think it’s important for us to kind of follow up what we did last year, we talked about Becky falwell and Jerry Falwell, Jr. and, you know, she’s kind of coming out now saying, I was unfaithful to my husband, he had no idea. So I’m just a harlot, and you should all just, you know, judge me, not him. And I think that sucks, for starters. And I also think that now she’s gonna run around wearing this giant scarlet letter for the rest of her life.

 

Mallory Gordon  03:21

Right. Right. And we talked about, you know, how we view that situation. And I mean, I guess it’s not normal, given the style of the relationship that the woman’s the one to carry that burden, even if he was involved, which is really annoying when man or feminist is screaming.

 

Mickey Gordon  03:39

Yeah. Well,

 

Mallory Gordon  03:41

I mean, if it’s $10 million, what do you do?

 

Mickey Gordon  03:43

10.5 so another half a million got tossed on there as a little bonus. Yeah, why but it and I’m not gonna get 10 and a half million dollars of a fuck around on you. I would how many gets a foot in my

 

Mallory Gordon  03:54

Yeah, yeah, you won’t like what happens after

 

03:58

it’s not gonna better be worth it, then it

 

Mickey Gordon  04:00

better be worth it. Alright, ladies, you’re hurting her first. You better become You better come strong if you want me to. Now we’re gonna talk about that in a little bit. Before we get into that. Let’s talk a little bit just kind of, I don’t know what’s been going on. I mean, I know. Things are a little weird out there in the world right now. But

 

Mallory Gordon  04:17

everything’s still very strange. I mean, that’s the running thing with 2020 it’s just a fucking dumpster fire but there is a light at the end of the tunnel for us. We’re prepping for our November trip we’re in the last weeks

 

Mickey Gordon  04:30

What are we actually need to place our orders for all of our promotional gears there’s gonna be all kinds of new promotional shit coming with casual swinger on it in the very short order.

 

Mallory Gordon  04:38

Yeah, cuz everyone wears something that says swinger, like to the grocery store in church and whatnot. I do. We’re geniuses. I do. I know. You do loud

 

Mickey Gordon  04:44

and proud, baby. Yeah. What’s a casual swinger? Welcome back to the house for me and I’ll show you

 

Mallory Gordon  04:50

Yeah, I mean, I’m getting my outfits together for theme nights and we’re talking like games and stuff and social distancing and how we can you know, serve, you know, everyone that’s coming along the trip. I know we got a couple of rooms left. But now we also will be planning for February here, sir.

 

Mickey Gordon  05:05

Yeah, we’re kind of pivoting our planning toward February. So here’s the thing. Most of you guys listen to this show don’t live in the state of Florida or the state of Texas or the state of Arizona. I mean, there’s a few Don’t get me wrong. But what I’m saying is most of you are going to be fucking cold in February. Yes. And now, we’re gonna be at he does him too, in Jamaica with a bunch of Canadian friends. Yes. And this is very excited. So you should come with us, is what we’re saying.

 

Mallory Gordon  05:30

Yeah, yeah. So if you guys have questions, you can go to the travel with us page a casual swinger.com.

 

Mickey Gordon  05:34

Yeah, and come hang out with us at Hito.

 

Mallory Gordon  05:37

And maybe you’ll get to come to

 

Mickey Gordon  05:38

home. Haha. Anyway, so we are doing that we’re getting ready for our November Hito trip. But also, you’re about out of time, guys. You literally have about a week left. From the time you listen to this episode, for your chance at a womanizer premium for signing up with a lifetime membership to double date nation. That’s double date. nation.com It is pretty much what In my opinion, the sexiest lifestyle out there and definitely the best designed

 

Mallory Gordon  06:06

Do I have like no patience. I’m a little tech forward. But I have no patience for stuff that takes multiple steps to get to where I want to go to it’s very intuitive. It’s very pretty. And they have a big announcement that’s going to be coming down the pipeline that we can’t say anything about that’s going to change everything.

 

Mickey Gordon  06:23

I hate being sworn to secrecy because I suck at it. I want to tell everybody I’m gonna scream from the rooftops Yeah, and it’s gonna change everything it’s going to be a complete game changer in the lifestyle dating scene. Yeah, I think it’s gonna be so bad ass and I can’t wait to play with it in public and show people and be so

 

Mallory Gordon  06:39

I can’t wait to demo it I’m so excited. So guys go to WTF calm get your lifetime membership and entered and entered to get that womanizer because it’s a life changing toy. FYI,

 

Mickey Gordon  06:52

life changing. So tell these folks real quick Why is it a life changing toy? I know we’ve talked about it and Mallory’s toy box but what is the thing about this thing that makes it worth 200 bucks Do

 

Mallory Gordon  07:01

you got we’ve talked about it? ad nauseum. But for anyone who doesn’t know it’s got a very proprietary technology when it comes to the motor. So the clitoral and surrounding areas stimulation is much different. And a little more precise. It’s ergonomical. It holds a great charge. Like I hate it when because sometimes I want to come 10 times even when I’m just masturbating. And if it dies after 30 minutes then I’m fucked or not fucked for that matter. Has

 

Mickey Gordon  07:29

anyone ever called your pussy greedy?

 

Mallory Gordon  07:31

Yeah. Oh no, she’s totally fucking greedy. A lot of people do. Yeah, that is that is a greedy bitch.

 

Mickey Gordon  07:36

Mallory has a gluttonous snatch. But

 

Mallory Gordon  07:38

I can also here’s what I love about it. I can also use it with you because like the magic wand is so bulky. And I love my hair massager. But that’s not really like a couple’s play toy. And I have a couple like handheld vibes. But you have to get the right angle for like my wrist and not to get you know cramped or my hand to go dead.

 

Mickey Gordon  07:57

Well, wouldn’t it be nice though, because you love your magic wand wouldn’t be nice if there was some sort of piece of furniture that you could put it inside and use it

 

Mallory Gordon  08:06

you know, I believe we have that mechanism and I think I know where you’re going with this. You’re gonna give you’re gonna go ahead and let the cat out of the bag. A special announcement I

 

Mickey Gordon  08:14

think this overdo it because I’m so excited. So today, actually as of Friday, casual toys calm is direct with liberators.

 

Mallory Gordon  08:24

Yes. And if you don’t know who Liberator is they make some of the best sex furniture sex accoutrements on the market. I have been a huge fan girl. In fact, I still have that wedge. You were talking about that my magic one fits in. We’ve had that thing for 11 years. Yeah. And it’s in perfect shape. And

 

Mickey Gordon  08:44

I it’s brand new.

 

Mallory Gordon  08:45

Yeah, it’s brand new. I use this shit out of it. I even use it when I masturbate.

 

Mickey Gordon  08:49

Yeah, it’s amazing. So if you don’t know who liberatore bedroom adventure gear is, these guys make sex furniture. But they’re not just furniture. They mean blankets and harnesses and cough scissors, shunning

 

Mallory Gordon  08:59

aids and a wide assortment of accoutrements, for

 

Mickey Gordon  09:04

they’re all made right here in America, which is really awesome. So these guys are based out of Atlanta, Georgia. They’re a lot. They’re really nice. You know, if you go back a few seasons with us, we actually had Angela Lubin, who’s their Director of Marketing on the show. Yes. And we had to grow our business to really earn our way into libris.

 

Mallory Gordon  09:21

Yeah, they don’t they don’t let just anybody sell them and we want to be completely up to speed on the product because we we talk to our customers about it like when they go to the chat function. That’s us.

 

Mickey Gordon  09:34

That is that is literally our cell phones. Yeah, click on that button. You were getting ballerina.

 

Mallory Gordon  09:38

Yes. So we want to be you know, knowledgeable.

 

Mickey Gordon  09:42

Well, and we talked about him here too. When you come to casual swinger, of course, we talk about sex toys, but these things go so far beyond sex toys, we use this stuff here in our house and that’s the casual stringer studios in beautiful Orlando, Florida. But, you know, we we do this here, we use it here and we want to sell it for that reason. We want Even

 

Mallory Gordon  10:00

Exactly. I don’t think we sell any products that we haven’t investigated, researched and have faith in.

 

Mickey Gordon  10:06

Yeah, the couple $1,000 were the sex toys laying around this house tells me that we don’t use things. Yeah, we don’t talk about the evidence.

 

Mallory Gordon  10:13

We have, you know, the fail box to like when we test something out, and it’s just, it’s not up to par. It’s got to go when it comes off the site. So

 

Mickey Gordon  10:22

that’s true. When when something really sucks. We do delete it from the site, we get it back. But stay tuned, because we’ve cut some big casual toys news coming as well, in addition to the fact that we’re adding Liberator to the store. Now today, you can’t go to casualities.com and siebler. liberated because I haven’t added it to the site just yet. Because there’s something coming your way something sexy this way comes.

 

Mallory Gordon  10:44

Yes. Are we talking about the season that’s upon us?

 

Mickey Gordon  10:49

This is the season, is it not?

 

Mallory Gordon  10:51

Yes. I’m gonna bring the whole back to holidays. Oh. Yeah. So something that we talked a lot about last year is putting together like kinky stockings or sexy stockings. Right. And we had a lot of questions from people that were shopping the site for the season. So in order to make your lives easier, we’re gonna be offering his and hers sexy

 

Mickey Gordon  11:15

stockings that you know, sexy stocking sounds so much better than Whoa, whoa, whoa, bags.

 

Mallory Gordon  11:20

We can call them Whoa, whoa, bags. That’s fine, too. That’s fine, too. But yeah, so I went through our entire catalog and put together three different packages for each, so it’ll be easy shopping.

 

Mickey Gordon  11:31

Yeah, these things are so badass. And I gotta tell you guys, I watched Mallory do this. And when I say that she’s smart in ways I could never be and does things I could never do. I do a lot of the geeky shit here for casual swinger. But putting these packages together that were thoughtful and had just the right number of items and types of items to really make make a great packaged gift for you guys for Christmas. These things are great when you see these Whoa, bags or sexy stockings,

 

Mallory Gordon  11:58

whatever the Christmas. Yeah,

 

Mickey Gordon  12:00

you guys are gonna dig them. They’re gonna be out there in a very short order and able for you guys to purchase at a discount. So when you buy these, you’re already getting a discount. Yeah.

 

Mallory Gordon  12:08

And it could be a hoarding Hanukkah gift. Like what they’re I mean, it just it

 

Mickey Gordon  12:13

Yeah. Alright, so we got horny Hanukkah we got Whoa, bags, you got skin you know, sexy Christmas stockings, kinky Kwanzaa. What else we got?

 

Mallory Gordon  12:20

Yeah, I think I don’t know. Did we miss something. There’s something I missed. I know,

 

Mickey Gordon  12:23

I know. There’s some religion nasty.

 

Mallory Gordon  12:24

We’re not even here.

 

Mickey Gordon  12:28

Alright, so that’s coming. So be ready for that. And you’ll be coming soon after you get it. And make sure to check out casual toys to find your Liberator bedroom adventure gear. We are so excited to have those guys in our stable of vendors to be able to provide you with their products. We believe in it wholeheartedly.

 

Mallory Gordon  12:44

Maybe you should take some pictures of me on our furniture just

 

Mickey Gordon  12:48

to show people we have to find out. We’ll feel about that. Would you like to see photos on Twitter of Mallory on her liberators?

 

Mallory Gordon  12:55

I mean, maybe I’m just sitting on my eating a bowl of cereal. But now I’m just getting reading reading

 

Mickey Gordon  13:00

Psalms. Psalms. I’m sure. Yeah, well, anyhow. So we’re gonna get out of here for just a minute and come back and see you guys. And we’re going to talk about cheating in the lifestyle today. Cheating is something that happens all the time. It happens in a huge number of marriages, monogamous, or otherwise in this country. And I think that there’s a little bit of a false kind of confidence out there where people say people in life people don’t cheat in the lifestyle. How

 

Mallory Gordon  13:29

can you right? Yeah. Yeah.

 

Mickey Gordon  13:33

So why does it happen so often? Interesting. We’re going to talk about that. And we’re going to talk about the psychology behind it, why people cheat? Whether or not we’ve cheated, and kind of get your thoughts on it. We’re looking forward to hearing back from you.

 

Mallory Gordon  13:45

Yeah, for sure. And speaking of feedback, thank you, everyone who reached out to us to give us the feedback on the previous episode that you mentioned with Mitch and Cindy, regarding, you know, evangelism and sex and the Jerry Falwell Jr. A lot of great feedback, a lot of love for that one. So thank you guys.

 

Mickey Gordon  14:04

Yeah, we can’t thank you guys enough for that. And you know, we kind of have to do an episode like that every season not necessarily a religious one, but a heavy one because that was heavy. And I know you guys come here to casual swing here for a little bit of entertainment, a little bit of knowledge and, and we love you for it. But at the same time, we have an opportunity to talk about something and bring in an expert on mitches level. We have to do it and we hope you guys enjoy it. I know there’s a few people out there that had a little heartburn from it, but you know, hey, you don’t make a cake without breaking a few eggs. Right?

 

Mallory Gordon  14:35

That’s true. Good point.

 

Mickey Gordon  14:37

Our cake is delicious. At least here’s his

 

Mallory Gordon  14:39

I love cake.

 

Mickey Gordon  14:41

You don’t eat cake

 

Mallory Gordon  14:42

now. But no, I do.

 

Mickey Gordon  14:45

When you get a chance. once in a blue moon about pie. Can we eat pie?

 

Mallory Gordon  14:48

Oh, I’ll eat my pie.

 

Mickey Gordon  14:50

Hey,

 

Mallory Gordon  14:51

are we gonna go have sex on the break? Because I feel like we’re flirting. Yeah, let’s just lay there.

 

Mickey Gordon  14:57

Wait, my head’s pounding. I don’t think it’s gonna work. Know where they can find us and we’ll be back in a hot Second.

 

Mallory Gordon  15:02

All righty. Ready? So yeah, we’re casual swing everywhere guys casual swing calm if you want to reach out it’s podcast at casual swinger calm. You can find us on social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. And if you love us, feel free to give us a shout out on iTunes for a podcast. Want to datas see her naked pictures? Go to double date nation, Cassidy SLS STC and clever.

 

Mickey Gordon  15:27

That sounds like a break, we’ll get you sexy bastards Just a second, you’re listening to casual swinger.

 

Mallory Gordon  15:47

All right, and we’re back casual swear, everybody, and we’re gonna be talking about cheating,

 

Mickey Gordon  15:52

like on a test?

 

Mallory Gordon  15:54

Well, I think the definition of cheating doesn’t relate to what we’re talking about. But cheating in relationships.

 

Mickey Gordon  16:01

Oh, marriage is a test of my patients. Yours more than mine.

 

Mallory Gordon  16:07

This may be true. So we had a conversation a couple weeks ago around cheating. And just like we’re posing thoughts out there and did some research and thought it’d be a good topic to bring on the show. And when I went to look up cheating, I found this, the Webster’s definition of it. And it kind of made me laugh a little because the way it’s worded. So if you look it up cheating, it’s an act of dishonesty or unfairly in order to gain an advantage. Now, in the context that you and I are speaking in, do you think that that’s relevant?

 

Mickey Gordon  16:40

Maybe the first piece of it right, so act unfairly? Because I think when you in the context that we’re discussing this where we’re talking about marital or relationship infidelity, as cheating, I think that it’s unfair for you to do something that you wouldn’t be okay with someone doing to you.

 

Mallory Gordon  17:03

Right? Right. So,

 

Mickey Gordon  17:05

I mean, I think that is accurate. But I don’t see a perceived or tangible advantage to doing it.

 

Mallory Gordon  17:11

Maybe Maybe it’s psychological or emotional land, we can dive into that here in a little bit. But so when I looked it up, as it relates to relationships, and this is according to the American Association for marriage and family therapy, the surveys indicate that 15% of married women and 25% of married men have had extramarital affairs. That’s

 

Mickey Gordon  17:33

surprising. I think that number is actually a little low,

 

Mallory Gordon  17:36

actually, I think so too. And it’s as the incidence is about 20% higher when emotional, and sexual relationships without intercourse are included. So cheating without sex. It’s 20%. Higher

 

Mickey Gordon  17:50

well, and so now we start to go down that rabbit hole of what does it mean to be unfaithful? What does it mean to cheat? Because the semantic way of getting around this? And is that it wasn’t cheating. I didn’t do anything. Yeah, I didn’t have sex with her. I was just talking to her on the internet, eight hours a day interested six months.

 

Mallory Gordon  18:09

So how would you define cheating? either in general, or in the context of our relationship? lying, lying, okay,

 

Mickey Gordon  18:18

periods start story,

 

Mallory Gordon  18:20

because it starts with dishonesty.

 

Mickey Gordon  18:21

Well, everything, everything that fails, starts with a breakdown in communication. Right? And so that breakdown and communication can lead to so many things. And, and obviously, we have a place we’re going with this conversation. So I don’t want to rush to it. But I feel like as a husband, and I’ve been one for a long time, I think when you aren’t happy and you’re not getting what you want. That’s one thing, but that’s not insurmountable. It’s when you don’t feel heard anymore. When you feel like that when you’ve said what you need, when you’ve talked about it ad nauseum. And now, all of the sudden, it doesn’t matter. You don’t care, you’re not going to change anything, you’re not going to do anything different. So I might as well go elsewhere. I think and that goes both ways. I think that women talk about their needs, maybe in a way, in that breakdown in communication, where people’s love language doesn’t quite sink up. And then all of the sudden, it’s like, he doesn’t listen to me. He doesn’t hear me he doesn’t understand me. And then a guy comes along that does or at least claims to

 

Mallory Gordon  19:20

that’s an excellent point. And I have to agree with you lying to me is that door because we are the foundation of our relationship is open and honest communication. And that doesn’t mean it’s easy. Some of the conversations you and I have are very fucking difficult, especially when it comes to something that may pull out my pride or my ego. And I have to take a step back and really hear you. But if we don’t do that, how am I setting us up for success? You know what I mean? Like I don’t want to give you a reason to lie to me. I don’t want to put you in a corner and make you feel like you’re not heard or not understood or not valued and encouraged that behavior. No one wants to be put in a box.

 

Mickey Gordon  20:00

You know, this started for you and I really early. So very early on, I would tell you things that you didn’t want to know, I would tell you things about me or things I’ve done or places I’ve been. And yes, I did not need to know that.

 

Mallory Gordon  20:13

Yeah, I’m very specific with the questions I asked, because you will, you’ll give it to me straight, doesn’t matter. Which version and sometimes, like, there were times where I had to remind you that I’m an emotional creature. And there are some things that I don’t need. It’s really difficult to hear you when they’re being put so bluntly, and there’s a difference between blunt and disrespectful or rude. So like, again, conversations that you and I had over the years to kind of like find to that fine tune that. So we’re hearing each other properly. Does that make sense?

 

Mickey Gordon  20:47

Yeah, well, and I think for you and I that that was really key to getting us to a point where there wasn’t a communication gap that lead or leads to these things, because you and I have both been in relationships that have involved infidelity. So before we go any further, I think we should probably articulate one important point, which is the question. Have you ever committed an act of infidelity in a relationship?

 

Mallory Gordon  21:13

So my answer is yes, but not in the traditional way that most people think. I’ve probably absolutely emotionally but invested in someone that was outside of my relationship, because I didn’t feel like I was getting what I needed there. But I did not associate that with cheating.

 

Mickey Gordon  21:27

And I’ve done it in all the ways.

 

Mallory Gordon  21:29

Congratulations, you get trophy,

 

Mickey Gordon  21:31

I get the trophies. But do we think honestly, that our definition of cheating? I mean, when we define it differently, because of our is lying? how everyone else identifies cheating? Or is it just fucking

 

Mallory Gordon  21:44

I think it starts there. No, I definitely have my boundaries. Because if I love when you are invested in another human being and you form, you know, that bond that we can, you know, have really, really great sex with them. But there is a line, there is a line because I don’t want to feel like I can’t supply you with your needs. And I also don’t want to feel like you’re supplementing something from someone else that I can absolutely give you. So the emotional. And the attention factor does play a role. And it’s not a jealousy, it’s definitely my own insecurities to start with. But I think that is a boundary for me.

 

Mickey Gordon  22:22

And as relates to the lifestyle, I think for us, and ironically enough women’s health, you found this quote, which I think is a really good one. And it was from a PhD and assistant professor at Texas Tech University by the name of Dana wiser. She says that infidelity is a gray area, because different individuals have their own boundaries and ideals for their romantic relationships. And that kind of speaks to the lifestyle. Yeah, the lifestyle, we may be perfectly comfortable having some sort of sexual interaction with another person that’s not our spouse or our significant other. And when you talk to, you know, maybe somebody that’s more traditional, or an evangelical or somebody like that, they might be like, absolutely not, you can’t even think about it. Don’t look at the menu. Look down, right, we’re walking to sandals, and that good lady slapped the shit out of her husband. That’s right out. Right. She can’t even look that that guy was in trouble the rest of his vacation. God forbid he looked at another woman’s ass.

 

Mallory Gordon  23:15

Yeah. And but you know what, it’s not our position to judge them because that is what is and is not acceptable inside their relationship. And I think that’s what we’re trying to say that everyone’s definition is going to be a little different, but depending on their wants and needs.

 

Mickey Gordon  23:27

So I think motivation for cheating, I really I don’t want to call it cheating. I think it’s it’s wanton dishonesty. Right. Okay. And again, for me, cheating isn’t sexual. It can be right. And it certainly manifests as sex for a lot of us. But I think for men and women, it’s very different. Now men cheat a lot more than women do. According to statistics, anyway. Right. So okay,

 

Mallory Gordon  23:53

yeah, no, I, I saw that. And I was a little surprised because I would figure it’s much closer and range, then almost as many Rehman cheat as men. Well, I

 

Mickey Gordon  24:02

think it’s interesting that the average for people that claim to have had a non monogamous event in their life or consensually non monogamous event, rather, is around 24% 20 is anywhere between 20 and 24%, depending on what statistic you read, and who you read it from. And we’ve provided them every time I see that somebody hits us up in comments and goes, where did you get that number and then I have to go find it and give it to him and go here didn’t fucking make it up. But you know, when we look at these numbers, because you did pull a bunch of numbers for this, but it’s most specifically the one that I have in front of me right now is infidelity Health Group, which actually is a little on the low side from some of the numbers that we’ve seen. This one says that 20% of men admitted to engaging in extramarital sex, but only 10% of women, which to me, strikes me is a little low. What do you think?

 

Mallory Gordon  24:50

I think it’s, it’s probably a little low. But also, like we said just a few minutes ago, if you take sex out and include the other factors that we’ll talk about here in a second That number is much, much higher

 

Mickey Gordon  25:02

it is. And it’s funny because you know that graphic from infidelity help group says that, but infidelity statistics also say that 40% of unmarried relationships and 25% of marriages see at least one incident of infidelity. And we’re talking just all across the board rates, they could be non monogamous they could not be. And why is that? I mean, so what causes you to feel enough discomfort to let somebody else in as a woman vacancy

 

Mallory Gordon  25:29

somewhere. So if there’s a vacancy, either in my intimacy, or maybe an I hate to call it a tension or a mental affection, but I don’t have a words that are better than that, when I feel like I’m lacking something, I’m not being found interesting, or being engaged in conversation or even ignored, that would leave a void for me that I would want filled. Because it’s something that fills me not just as a woman, but as a partner. I

 

Mickey Gordon  25:54

think that’s, that’s in line with most of the numbers that we’ve seen. So another interesting number that jumped out at me is that the number of women that have engaged in infidelity over the last 20 years has increased by 40%. That’s interesting. So it’s, it’s on the uptick in a very large way. But men have remained fairly constant. The number of men that cheat, it’s about the same, it never changes. Now, what is interesting to me is that in men who make over $300,000, a year 32% of them have had an affair, but men who make under $35,000 a year only 21%. So if you’ve got money, you’re more apt to cheat. Why do you think that is?

 

Mallory Gordon  26:33

Is that an opportunity and like a social economic?

 

Mickey Gordon  26:36

That’s exactly hit on because they their show, they’re showing it right? They’re driving a sports car, they’re in a nice bar, wearing a nice suit. And I grow guys, hey,

 

Mallory Gordon  26:46

I see you’re saying women are

 

Mickey Gordon  26:48

on is definitely not him. He would just be at home talking to us. Yeah. for them.

 

Mallory Gordon  26:53

I was I’m afraid of where you’re going because I’m gonna start getting nasty.

 

Mickey Gordon  26:57

So let’s talk about why men cheat more than women do. Men use love to get sex.

 

Mallory Gordon  27:04

And women use sex to get love?

 

Mickey Gordon  27:05

Yes. And it’s, you know, 44% of the men who who responded to this particular survey that’s in front of me right now said they cheated because they just wanted more sex there. They felt like their partner didn’t or their partner did not know nevermind, that this is the same guy who rolls over with morning breath, lifts his leg drops off a huge fart and then smacks his wife on the ass and goes once um, yeah, right. Yeah. Cuz that’s the we’re talking about daily life here with this guy. And now he’s upset because she doesn’t want any. So he’s walking around with a heart on all day. And that goes, Well, you know, maybe I’ll hit up some girl online and he says things he doesn’t say to his wife, like you’re beautiful. Or you make that outfit look spectacular. Right? He’s not telling her these things. He’s not speaking her language. He’s not getting to the core of what she needs to feel sexy.

 

Mallory Gordon  27:55

Hmm. So he wants to take without giving. But in that new environment with somebody else, it’s a lot easier you think, are a lot more fun?

 

Mickey Gordon  28:04

Sure. I mean, it’s all discovery. Right? That’s the that’s the fun part. And our NRA, yeah, your relationship energy.

 

Mallory Gordon  28:11

Yeah. So that statistic, the same poll, but on the female side, so that 33% of women who she wants to be reassured they’re still desirable. And that speaks to me as someone who’s over 30 or and maybe like women over 40 over 50 like aging, that mechanism and what’s to come and how people view us and I hate to say it, it’s it operates in the background. I will never be as beautiful as I was yesterday is kind of the the feeling that I get sometimes, because men get more distinguished as they get older and women generally fall less desirable. I mean, no one’s looking for naked pictures of Meryl Streep right

 

Mickey Gordon  28:59

now or any portions of thinking so

 

Mallory Gordon  29:01

not nobody but very few people want to see named Meryl Streep they’d rather see you know, someone you know, younger. And personally, I’d like to see more women over 50 over 60 being celebrated for being sexy in their natural state the way they are not competing with a 20 and 30 year olds.

 

Mickey Gordon  29:17

I think Hollywood does that too. Women have really unfairly though, because you get you know, Sylvester Stallone’s What? Almost 80 years old. Yes. Doing action movies. Yeah. And the only thing you can do once you pass 50 is be somebody’s mother in Hollywood. Pretty much everyone. That show that you watch has got Judas light in it. And

 

Mallory Gordon  29:36

she’s talking about Ugly Betty. I thought that she was adorable. But also like stuff like Grayson, Frankie. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, they’re still amazing women and they’re still beautiful, and they’re so sexual. But I don’t think they’re as celebrated as younger women are. No no, it’s my two cents.

 

Mickey Gordon  29:53

Look at it that way. Alyssa Milano, boom sex symbol, right? Yeah, same show just not

 

Mallory Gordon  29:59

crazy.

 

Mickey Gordon  30:00

Oh yeah, she’s not here. She’s great and bad here. Oh, yeah. Mitch, is that crazy? have to be good in bed. Right? So let’s talk about the different kinds of cheating. Right? And so sexual is certainly a big part of it. Right? And there’s I think men and women we talked about, you know, that they have sex for different reasons. Sure, men are looking for sex. So they fuck a stranger where a woman is more apt to fuck her ex boyfriend like we talked about, but his sexual The only way people cheat and in the lifestyle in particular. Now

 

Mallory Gordon  30:31

there’s there’s different tiers and different avenues to that you can go down to becoming a quote unquote, cheater. I think sex is agreeable with everyone. If you have sex with somebody else outside the confines of your relationship, and it’s not pre approved. That’s cheating. There’s people out there that have anything goes card, and that’s great. And that’s wonderful. But I think for just all intents and purposes, sex is cheating. But there’s emotional cheating, right? When you’re infatuated with somebody and you’re having dialogue, you’re not having sex. But there’s an emotional connection. That is probably unacceptable outside of your relationship.

 

Mickey Gordon  31:07

Well, more than sex, though, I think that emotional cheating, and social media cheating. I think those sorts of things are probably more prevalent in the lifestyle than sexual cheating. Because, I mean, you think, well, maybe the numbers are exactly the same. But just from my common sense perspective, it just doesn’t seem to me that somebody that can be consensually non monogamous that just wants to get laid is not going to bridge that gap with having sex with somebody that’s not I don’t know, endorsed?

 

Mallory Gordon  31:36

Yeah, that’s that’s a good point. Or maybe they didn’t know that that void was there. And don’t know how to talk about it. For me, it’s easier to talk about my feelings than probably most people. I don’t mind. I like talking about my feelings to the point that it probably drives you absolutely insane. Correct. But maybe it’s easier to talk about sex and not their feelings. Maybe that’s, that’s more prevalent in males. I don’t know. Like I’m just postulating over here.

 

Mickey Gordon  32:02

Yeah, maybe. So I mean, I think that and we know, Oh, actually, we know a couple that met in the lifestyle. And they were married to other people. Yeah, they got divorced and married each other. It was a criss cross. Mm hmm. So the other two got married, and they got married and went their separate way.

 

Mallory Gordon  32:22

Yeah, that’s true. I forgot about that.

 

Mickey Gordon  32:25

And yeah, that’s so unusual. It is. And it did. It was born of infidelity. It was out. But it didn’t end up that way. So maybe sometimes it just works out.

 

Mallory Gordon  32:37

Yeah. So do you think you can be unfaithful in regards to like, your spirituality or like, mentally, maybe a little CPU sexually? Do you think that’s a thing? I was wondering about that and want to ask you?

 

Mickey Gordon  32:51

Well, I, yeah, I guess you can. It’s it’s one of those things where, let’s say that the husband is a marine biologist. And he meets another woman who’s a marine biologist, but his wife’s a writer. She’s not a marine biologist, she’s still smart in her own way. And they have great deep conversations. But if he wants to have a conversation with somebody about dolphins, he’s probably needs to talk to somebody else. And maybe those conversations become deeper and more interesting, because he’s so enamored with her mind that he shares something with. And then that’s a CPO sexual relationship that’s born of intellect. And that is probably a lot more common than it is uncommon. The question is, how often does it bridge that gap and turn into something that’s genuinely not approved by monogamous or consensually?

 

Mallory Gordon  33:40

No, that that’s, that’s true, because everyone’s scale may be a little different in that environment right now, because I totally get that you do something that I don’t do and understand, and I love when you share, but we don’t have the same connection over the stuff that you’re passionate about, because I don’t do it on a daily basis. So a relationship that you may have that’s that’s work, and totally platonic, but could be sapiosexual. At the same time. Do you think is that kind of like,

 

Mickey Gordon  34:06

what is the picture

 

Mallory Gordon  34:07

you’re painting? I just want to make sure I’m following Well, I

 

Mickey Gordon  34:09

mean, usually you walk out and see me on the phone in the middle of the night. I’m either talking to Dave or Kate. And

 

Mallory Gordon  34:18

are the alabaster scrotum?

 

Mickey Gordon  34:19

Right where the alabaster scroll to me I was talking to him melonite last night, so say, I don’t think it stresses you out. But I bet there’s wives out there that come out and go. Are you talking to Jake from State Farm again?

 

Mallory Gordon  34:30

No, no, absolutely. Absolutely. There was something that I was reading and that woman’s health mag that actually made me kind of tilt my head a little bit. So it was five things that are considered cheating. And the other two because we talked about sexual emotional and the spiritual CBO sexual thing, but secret spending was one of them.

 

Mickey Gordon  34:55

That’s cheating.

 

Mallory Gordon  34:57

Dude, I had to read it three or four times to go why but hear me out here? How would you feel if I was spending money on someone else or things and not telling you about it? or making big purchases without letting you know now, our relationship when it comes to money, very different than a lot of people, we don’t share joint accounts. You have yours. I have mine. We have shared bills, we work it out. But I never ever feel the need to question how money spent because I trust you.

 

Mickey Gordon  35:33

True, but I’m going with this is in a different direction, though. Because when a person is buying, let’s just call them lavish gifts, okay, for a person that they’re not in a relationship with, then that would send my radar up, and I’m not a jealous dude at all. No, you’re definitely not. But when if someone’s you know, someone buys you a Rolex watch. I’m gonna be like, Whoa, hang on. I know what kind of blow jobs you give. So I know it had to be good for a Rolex.

 

Mallory Gordon  36:03

Hey there Rolex quality, I think pretty awesome. Maybe

 

Mickey Gordon  36:07

not gonna lie. But like, so if we’re talking about secret spending leg, I went out with the boys. And I bought three rounds, and I spent $300 at the bar. I’m gonna hide that from my wife. That’s not the same thing that we’re talking now here. What we’re talking about is buying roses for another girl. Yeah, right. We’re buying dinners or hotel rooms. Now. Mind you, if you’re buying a hotel room, it’s probably way deeper than secret spending.

 

Mallory Gordon  36:35

Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, yeah, that’s probably you’re crossing over into the sexual infidelity there.

 

Mickey Gordon  36:40

Sure. But I mean, if we’re buying things, I think for me, and this is gonna sound weird, especially given the way we live our lives. But I think jewelry is a non starter. Don’t buy jewelry for a girl that’s not yours. Yeah, that’s true. Like, that’s just that’s a dick move. And I don’t know why I think it’s a dick move. But everything in my like, right down to my toes. It’s like Nah, not cool. No.

 

Mallory Gordon  37:01

Okay. Do not don’t festoon my woman with ornate gifts. That’s right. decorate her. Do not decorate my woman. Don’t

 

Mickey Gordon  37:09

decorate That one’s mine.

 

Mallory Gordon  37:12

Kind of like my house. I’m not gonna go into yours and start putting up the pictures I like Exactly. Okay, I get what you’re saying.

 

Mickey Gordon  37:18

It just strikes me. It’s like don’t rub another man’s rhubarb. Dammit. That’s not cool.

 

Mallory Gordon  37:24

You’re so I don’t even know what that means. You don’t know. It’s like you and you and sliding board. Like there’s just certain things in thing it is not slide boards thing? Uh huh. I bet you if we ask our listeners to email us what they think is sliding board is

 

Mickey Gordon  37:42

everybody damn well knows what a sliding board is. And if you don’t, you didn’t come from the country?

 

Mallory Gordon  37:46

No. Okay, we’re going down the rabbit hole. There is one thing that I was like, holy shit. This is so alien to me that I didn’t realize that it was on this five list. Did you know fantasizing about another partner or another person, not another partner and fantasizing about another person is considered one of the five cheat.

 

Mickey Gordon  38:10

Run that bullshit by me. Yes,

 

Mallory Gordon  38:11

yes. Yes, yes. That thinking about having sex with somebody else can be considered cheating. Tell me that doesn’t strike you as a little insane. Because there’s certain things we can’t help. Like, if I dream, I have no control over that.

 

Mickey Gordon  38:28

No, and I’ve heard you do it. You’re driving and grinding on a pillow and you’re sucking the shit out of somebody?

 

Mallory Gordon  38:33

So how is that? How is that on the list? And I got to thinking about it. And you this data that you pulled up, made me laugh so hard that it says 80% of women have frequent fantasies about someone other than their partner, and 98% of men do. So the majority of us fucking fantasize, but it’s not okay.

 

Mickey Gordon  38:57

Yeah, that puts the the average squarely in the 90 percentile. So 90% of people in general, fantasize about somebody else. And that I think is cheating. According to your survey,

 

Mallory Gordon  39:07

according to that the articles that I was reading because there’s one, I want to say I was on telegraph. And it was really similar to the women’s health woman and women’s health mag one and I can’t remember the third, but almost verbatim did they list these as the same? And I’m sorry, at what point is your expectation even in a vanilla traditional relationship to have that maybe you don’t discuss it? But reasonable if you’re you wake up and your wife’s moaning and calling out Brad Pitt’s name. That’s infidelity. Get some bread? I don’t know. Well,

 

Mickey Gordon  39:43

so Bert kreischer did a bit in one of his early I think it was in the machine. Maybe it wasn’t in the machine. It was in the one that was a follow up. But he talked about how he watched a porn and he saw reverse cowgirl and so he asked his wife to do reverse cowgirl. And she’s like, where’d you where’d you get this from? Yeah, what so you want to look at my bottle, and she just started giving him all this shit about and it was very awkward and weird and she was automatically put on the defensive for and it was funny as hell because everything Bert does is funny, but it was still kind of telling that in a relationship where, you know, sexuality is not something that they talk about on the regular at least at that time. It wasn’t that it was very difficult for him to say, I saw this and I fantasized about you doing it? Yeah, that’s still cheating in this in this context.

 

Mallory Gordon  40:38

I guess. So I just it perplexes me because my brain is not wired that way. Like I we’re not dead we can appreciate a stranger’s body. If we’re was they were out to lunch. And you know, a pretty girl walks by, I’m gonna notice She’s pretty. And most of the time, I’m going to point it out to you too. And I just, I guess in that context for a lot of other people in this world, that’s not okay. Like out to dinner and your husband’s checking out another woman. Because that would bring out insecurity in your spouse, I guess.

 

Mickey Gordon  41:14

Oh, yeah. If they did it wrong, right, their standard, the tongue hanging out, like, you know, mask or something, you know. But

 

Mallory Gordon  41:21

I still think it’s so natural, though, to have fantasies. That’s one of the fun parts of life, I am

 

Mickey Gordon  41:27

reasonably confident that at least half the time that you masturbate, you’re not thinking about me, if not more, it’s, you masturbate a lot.

 

Mallory Gordon  41:36

I messed up to some silly stuff.

 

41:40

So

 

Mickey Gordon  41:41

well, let’s talk specifically consensual non monogamy swinging ethical non monogamy. What is cheating look like? I mean is, have we seen it? Let’s talk about something we’ve seen.

 

Mallory Gordon  41:53

So we were actually in a, in a situation where we had played with this couple quite a few times, and they ended up picking up a playmate, another female, dynamic, and that’s kind of all we knew. And unexpectedly, when we met up with them, the playmate was there. And we’re like, Okay, this is a little awkward, but you know what, we’ll make it work, we’ll get to know each other. And during playtime, I noticed an interaction between the husband and the playmate that screamed in like intimacy to the nth degree that there was something emotionally going on in the two of them. And the wife seemed oblivious to it. And the situation got really uncomfortable very, very fast.

 

Mickey Gordon  42:36

Oh, it was very weird. Like the air got thick

 

Mallory Gordon  42:38

in a room. Right? And I didn’t Honestly, I had no idea what to do.

 

Mickey Gordon  42:44

No, I’d never seen it either. I was early on in our lifestyle. Really, it

 

Mallory Gordon  42:48

was it was earlier on in our journey. And honestly, it was one of those things like, I kind of wanted to, like shake the wife and be like, what the fuck up with this? Like,

 

Mickey Gordon  42:57

are you cool with that? Well, it seemed very quickly, like they wanted you and I to keep her busy so they could do their thing. Yes. And it was just very like,

 

Mallory Gordon  43:07

well, it’s going actually what sent the red flag was there was a moment of discomfort that I saw in her when him and I were doing our thing. And that wasn’t okay, which I thought was very strange, given that the wife is totally on board, but the playmate was not okay. She was really young, too. She’s very young. I was very young, too, but she was much younger than me. She was so it was just strange. So it took us a while to digest everything that was going on. And I’ll be it we never said anything. But where the cards fell was absolutely there was an amount of infidelity that was going on there. He and the playmate had bonded and they ended up getting divorced. And then the playmate and him got married, and then divorced and married his wife again. We don’t know that for sure. We kind of went and this is this drama is not cool.

 

Mickey Gordon  44:01

For anybody who is wants to know how we handled that situation. It was very uncomfortable. It was very clear something was not okay. So we both stopped what we were doing and said hey, you know what? Maybe this isn’t the right time for this guys. And we they the evening came to a fairly abrupt halt.

 

Mallory Gordon  44:17

Fairly abrupt. I mean it we tried to slow it down and it was just too strangely both like, we’re like bail card. We gotta go. Yeah, court but do you think we handled that properly? Because I vacillated for years going because it was months after like, after that happened that the relationship was announced. And a year after that the divorce was in play? Did I owe it to the wife to say something?

 

Mickey Gordon  44:42

I don’t think so. First of all, having the benefit of hindsight, I think that we know now we did the right thing because we knew something was off. You saw it. I didn’t because I was busy doing something else. But you did call it out to me. I didn’t. Mentally I saw Yeah, just come from

 

Mallory Gordon  44:59

man. It was one If I could channel like, like ESP like put thoughts into your brain for mine, that’s exactly what I was trying to do. I was

 

Mickey Gordon  45:05

pointing the other direction and I knew something was wrong behind me. Yeah, I and calling it to a stop is the best thing you can do, I don’t think is a lifestyler. It’s our place to in invest ourselves or inject ourselves into other people’s relationship on that level if we see a problem distanced yourself from it. And if they ask to get together again, encourage them maybe say, hey, last time something happened that made us a little bit uncomfortable. And so we would like to not have that situation again. Now, I’m not going to be we’re not your counselor, we’re not here to tell you to do things differently. We’re just saying it wasn’t okay for us.

 

Mallory Gordon  45:39

So you would have called it out if asked, but if not, yes. If not asked. It’s none of our business, kind of like, what if your neighbor and you knew your neighbor was cheating? Would you go over and tell his wife like, it’s that’s such a challenging? Sorry, we

 

Mickey Gordon  45:54

heard him he says that we were wrong in the first place. Because when we got there and found out they had brought a third, we were already uncomfortable. We should have not gone there in the first place. That

 

Mallory Gordon  46:05

is a great point. That is a great point. I didn’t I didn’t realize how uncomfortable I was until I was in it.

 

Mickey Gordon  46:12

Yeah, so we have culpability? That’s my as well, absolutely the mistake that we won’t make. Again, if somebody drops a surprise player threes entered the game, you know, that’s definitely going to be something that we would not do again,

 

Mallory Gordon  46:24

that is absolutely true. And if we were giving why I don’t want to say advice, but if we were talking to a friend about this situation, that’s exactly what we would say. So 100% agree.

 

Mickey Gordon  46:34

Yeah. So do you think that in the lifestyle or otherwise, you can keep your spouse from cheating? Is there something you can do? Can you keep your under your thumb? Can you yell at him? Can you follow them? Can you check their phone and check their email? Does that keep you from cheating?

 

Mallory Gordon  46:48

Sure. I mean, you can do all that things. I don’t, I don’t know that it stops anyone. I think once that wheels in motion, they’ve already made the decision. That’s what they’re gonna do. And if you feel like you need to check, you need to have a conversation. Like if you’re seriously if there’s anyone out there checking their spouse’s phones, you have bigger problems is that that is absolutely goes back to communication. If you’re scared, talk to them.

 

Mickey Gordon  47:13

Those words have been heard in our house, folks, we’re not perfect. Right? If you feel like you need to read my private information, we already have a problem. Yeah. And and this is we talk to our kids who, you know, we our youngest, had a girlfriend who wanted to read his texts. And like, son, you the problems already there giving her what she wants will not stop her. Even if she doesn’t find what she’s looking for. She’s gonna keep looking until she feels justified. Yeah, which means there’s a problem, either that you’ve helped create, or that’s already in her head. Yeah, and that, and that’s not just in, you know, 17 year old girls, that’s in 37 year old girls, or 57 year old girls, we all feel this discomfort that comes from not knowing in this fear that I’m going to be naked and alone and a pile of my own filth. If I don’t stop this from happening, but you can’t stop somebody that’s hell bent on finding happiness when they’re not happy.

 

Mallory Gordon  48:07

I have to agree with you.

 

Mickey Gordon  48:08

Yeah, but it’s not your fault, either. No, no, because collectively it can be if you if your communication is broken.

 

Mallory Gordon  48:14

Yeah. I got a question for you. I’m sure. Did you cheat? Or were you cheated on first was cheated on. Same here. I think for me, how it felt. It stopped me at least in a sexual dynamic to, to repeat that. Because I felt inadequate. I felt I caused this. And I know, I know, consciously, I didn’t. But those feelings still resided in me somewhere. It wasn’t good enough. And it really damaged me. And very early on and my relationship,

 

Mickey Gordon  48:50

I think a damaged you for a long time. Because we first got together, we’ve been together going on 15 years. And it was something I could see that, you know, fidelity was huge to you. And loyalty was was a big deal to honesty on that for me.

 

Mallory Gordon  49:05

Well, and I struggled learning how to ask for it and to set up our relationship for sex. Because if I’m going to ask you questions, and every time you answer me, I lose my shit. Or I get I start, you know, sobbing uncontrollably. I have to be able to handle the answers. I mean, I don’t have to like them. I don’t have to accept them per se. But I have to make the conversation work so that you are able to tell me, does that make sense?

 

Mickey Gordon  49:35

It does. So we’re kind of answering I feel.

 

Mallory Gordon  49:38

Yeah, I’m kind of feeling like I sound like a bit like a little bitch.

 

Mickey Gordon  49:42

No, I don’t think so. Because the question is, can you keep your spouse from cheating and the way the best way The only thing you can actually do is not punish them for being honest with you. Right? Right. I mean, don’t punish them for saying they want something they’re not getting.

 

Mallory Gordon  49:57

So it’s also my responsibility to say I hear you. Thank you for answering. However, that makes me feel uncomfortable that makes me feel upset. And this is why

 

Mickey Gordon  50:10

right and this is not so simple as look I’m not fucking doing anal you have a 12 inch cock and it’s not going no No, no, no No, no it’s this is a lot more complex and a lot deeper than that. Because you know, in this is we’ll go back to the infidelity help group but the infidelity help group says 11% of women who cheat cheated for revenge. I know for me, the number was a lot higher than that. Because when I got cheated on, I made sure that I paid her back in spades.

 

Mallory Gordon  50:38

So you stayed with the same girl after she cheated. And then you cheated on her?

 

Mickey Gordon  50:43

About 1100 times. Really? Yeah, it was it was not even I’m a terrible person. I’m not saying I’m for this, but

 

Mallory Gordon  50:51

I did you kept going back to the well thinking make you feel better. And it just never did.

 

Mickey Gordon  50:55

I fucked her friends. I mean, I I was sheezus horrible person. And I wanted to feel better. I wanted to feel like I had some sort of retribution. And then I realized that I was hurting somebody I didn’t care about enough to care whether it hurt them. And that, that’s when I was like, Whoa, this has been over for a long time. And everything I’m doing now is just making me feel like a mortar.

 

Mallory Gordon  51:19

I was gonna ask you, how did that make you feel to keep going back to the well to try to encourage hurt in somebody else. After me looking at it. It just looks like you were hurting you in the other people that were involved by proxy, like,

 

Mickey Gordon  51:36

girls who were fucking that I heard the most, because she never really knew. I never went back to her and gave her a list. I never went back and said look at all the things I did because what you did to me, what I did is I gave other people hope that I wouldn’t be the relationship they were looking for. And then they never got it. So what I actually did was way worse than what she did to me. And so revenge and cheating as revenge whether you’re monogamous or incent consensually or ethically non monogamous revenge is the most unethical thing you can do. And absol I know that from personal experience, and I still I still carry it. I honestly do.

 

Mallory Gordon  52:11

Oh, that’s that was heavy. Sorry, guys. I don’t even know how to respond to that. I mean, granted, that’s not news. To me. That’s that stuff.

 

Mickey Gordon  52:18

We’ve talked about in the past? Do you think that vanilla couples have this problem more than ethically non monogamous couples do? Or is it the same?

 

Mallory Gordon  52:27

I think it’s about the same but in different contexts. We’re all human. And everyone eventually fucks up, right? Someone crosses a line, I’ve crossed the line with us, you’ve crossed the line with us. We’ve always come out of it better and stronger. I think we’re lucky in that respect, because we have the wherewithal, the knowledge, the experience to go Alright, let’s talk about this. Let’s not react emotionally to start with let’s, let’s try to be practical and talk about why this happened. how you’re feeling? And what what’s our next step after that? Is there a next step? I think the sexual or the fantasy part may come into play more with vanilla? That’s a hard question.

 

Mickey Gordon  53:10

It is a very hard question, because we do it for different reasons.

 

Mallory Gordon  53:13

I think it is different for men versus women per se is especially if you’re talking about like a heterosexual relationship.

 

Mickey Gordon  53:19

You know, from a sex perspective, I think that guys in the lifestyle can still cheat. And I think women can moreso than men in the lifestyle because of the reasons why women cheat in the first place. The fact that consensually non monogamous couples, African non monogamous couples, just assume they’re all the same for this conversation makes it easier on me. So I have to say no. But when we talk about this, you know, non monogamy is about sex for a lot of couples. For us, it’s a lot more about the relationships with the other couples and the friendships. That’s kind of where we live in casual swinger land. Sure, we love having those friendships that include sex at some point, which makes it a lot more fulfilling for you as a woman, but it also makes a lot more fulfilling for me as a CPU sexual guy who actually enjoys the relationships, arguably more than I do the sex because I can’t feel anything with a condom on. But my point is a man that’s in a relationship where he feels like he’s not heard where he feels like he can’t talk about sex. He can’t have fantasies, he will be judged and he feels shame, for the way he feels, will lie. When he lies. He’s already cheated. We talked about that at the beginning of the hour. We said a cheat is a lie. So if he lies, he’s already cheated. Now. It’s just a matter of what form the demon takes.

 

Mallory Gordon  54:37

Is it cheating? If they’re thinking about it?

 

Mickey Gordon  54:39

Not yet. Okay. But when he starts talking about the, you know,

 

Mallory Gordon  54:44

he so he’s already made the decision to go down the road and open the door by lying in the first place. Yeah, so it’s a foregone conclusion.

 

Mickey Gordon  54:50

Yeah. And then it’s just a question of opportunity going back to the $300,000 earner versus the $35,000 earner. And Chris Rock actually said it best in one of his talks. comedy specials. He said men don’t cheat for sex. They cheat for opportunity. Oh my god. And I think that fascinating is a is a huge factor. Now in the lifestyle. Women can still fall in love, they can still fall for what they’re not getting the fantasy, the idea that they could have that thing that they thought about when they were in high school traveling Europe, holding hands with somebody that just wants the desire. The adventure. Yeah, and then you’ve got a homebody who never wants to leave the house at home and just wants to attend his garden and cut the dandelions out of his yard with a pair of scissors every day. Yeah, that guy is fucking weird. So cute. He’s cute. I think he’s fucking weird, but adorable. No, the idea though, is if his wife were to find somebody that shares that passion that she had as a child, or as a young person, yeah. Would she cheat?

 

Mallory Gordon  55:51

I think there’s an opportunity there. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion, I actually disagree with you that that line is more about you to yourself than it does to the other person about the relationship. I think there’s something that you’re not comfortable with. And you have to own that and become accountable. I don’t know how many what the statistics would be about people who think about cheating, cheating, actually act on it. So that that’s fascinating. But I think you’re right, as a woman if that opportunity is there. And it’s really easy. Are they more likely to do it then of their own volition and going out to seek it and find it? That’s, that’s interesting.

 

Mickey Gordon  56:29

I think opportunities is a key factor in every case of infidelity of any kind. Yeah. And the internet changed all the that the internet, at least the opportunity for infidelity by giving us 500 different apps, and 500 different services from which to draw conversation and relationships with other people that are not in our direct purview, right? Because we talked about some of the statistics, right? 40% of men have, you know, had an affair with a friend. Or and then 22% of women cheated with an old boyfriend 35% of Cheaters fucked a co worker? Well, I

 

Mallory Gordon  57:04

mean that you have what you see most right, so it’s your neighbors and your co workers. I mean, friends, that makes sense to me,

 

Mickey Gordon  57:14

it makes because I’m an opportunity. 8% of men find someone to have an affair with online 3% of women have an affair with someone online. So those numbers are super low,

 

Mallory Gordon  57:24

super low. But what happens once they’ve done it?

 

Mickey Gordon  57:28

Who knows?

 

Mallory Gordon  57:29

Well, and it says here, 90% of people who have online affairs, get addicted to them, and have it again, I want to know what they define as addictive? Because I don’t know. I don’t know that I like that. I don’t either. But they say that 90% of them start another one immediately after ending the first one.

 

Mickey Gordon  57:46

You know why? Because it fucking worked. That’s why they do it again. If it didn’t work, you wouldn’t do it again. It’s not addiction, it’s fucking common sense.

 

Mallory Gordon  57:56

It says that, we should read the previous statistic that 8% of men found opportunity and only 3% of women. Did

 

Mickey Gordon  58:03

you know why women only 3% of women did because they logged in put a picture up and his dicks were thrown at them one, like darts on a bar. They were like, Oh, this sucks. Like this. And men are like, they’re the one throw index. So I you know, we’re running a little long, but I really feel like this conversation is good. So I don’t want to cheat you guys out of the rest of it. Haha, instead of motivations, instead of the way we were gonna frame this, sir, let’s frame this as why people stopped communicating. Because, again, we can’t stop someone from cheating. But there are some things that we do that lead to a loss of communication. That is the thing that leads us to cheat whether we’re swingers or not sure. So what do we do about that? Instead of saying these are the signs, so you need to lose your zero and find zero, right? Let’s talk about for example, I can’t communicate my desires. So let’s say that you came to me and you told me that you really wanted to have two guys with six pack abs because I don’t have them. You know, I mean, I can see my knees and I can see my feet but I don’t have a six pack. So let’s just say for a minute that you came to me and said you want to guys with six pack abs. And I freaked out I lost my shit. And told you that you were your lender and Whoa, and I’m not okay with it and fuck this shit.

 

Mallory Gordon  59:22

I would think we’re role playing. But please proceed.

 

Mickey Gordon  59:26

When I shut down your desires like that, that makes you do what? Stop having them.

 

Mallory Gordon  59:33

Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t feel inspired to bring that up again. Or wish that I didn’t say that. I

 

Mickey Gordon  59:37

say do you stop having the desire?

 

Mallory Gordon  59:39

Hell no. No, I don’t. How can you control that?

 

Mickey Gordon  59:43

is our mission a lie?

 

Mallory Gordon  59:44

Yeah. Yeah, I

 

Mickey Gordon  59:44

think it can when it matters when I’m omitting something that is absolutely material to our relationship. Yeah, that might as well have lied to you. Yeah. So by telling you, you can’t tell me what your desire is. I just made you uncomfortable made you feel like you couldn’t do it anymore. Men do it too. women women do it to men, it goes both ways. Now, how does it actually happen? Usually it isn’t you coming to me telling me you want to guys with ABS? It’s you’re coming to me telling me I need more from you. I need more attention, more intimacy. I’d like you to hold my hand on the couch for a couple hours and just be there. That’s how it usually goes, right?

 

Mallory Gordon  1:00:20

Yeah, I think for the most part, when it is released, as Can I

 

Mickey Gordon  1:00:23

do the same thing when you do that? Can I react badly and make you not want to come to me and tell me you need those things?

 

Mallory Gordon  1:00:27

bitch? No. No, I you can’t? I would, I would hate that so much. But I would call you out on it too.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:00:37

If I did. Would it make you desire it elsewhere?

 

Mallory Gordon  1:00:41

as it would make it yeah, that desire would not go away? Exactly. I’d still have that void, I’d still have that vacancy.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:00:46

So what we’re getting at your folks is the important part is actually to hear what your partner’s asking for. And don’t vilify them for it. Don’t shame them for it. Don’t make them feel like they can’t talk about how they feel. That is a path to the dark side, right? Yeah, I agree. What about things like a well, we just talked about, I’m thinking

 

Mallory Gordon  1:01:06

about you yelling at me. And I don’t like that. I’m not yelling. I you know, you’re not you would like never yell at me. But well, oh, man, I’d be so upset.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:01:14

What about self esteem and self worth issues?

 

Mallory Gordon  1:01:18

I think most of us have them. And some of them. Yeah, I’m raising my hand, no one can see me self sabotage. I think self sabotage definitely has a place in this conversation. Because I’ve seen it. In my years with even some of my closest friends. And it there’s their insecurities and their self esteem, and not knowing how to communicate. Even if they’re in a good relationship, they sabotage it by fucking it up. Because in their heads, they’ve already decided eventually it would be so they’re going to go ahead and hurt this person. Maybe have a little fun with somebody else along the way. And just go ahead and ruin it because they’re apt to fail. Like it’s fucking strange. But I’ve seen it in more than a handful of times.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:02:06

Well, and it again, this leads us down a path where we stopped communicating. Yeah. And when we stopped communicating, that’s it. Show’s over. Yeah. And it’s not necessarily over as much as it is. Now the doors open, and you may not walk through it. Yeah, right. Not every relationship that does as intimacy problems or indication problems. Yeah,

 

Mallory Gordon  1:02:24

you still can’t stop when someone’s made the decision, you There’s nothing you can do to prevent it, the best thing you can do is try to set up your relationship for success, and have a commonality in that conversation. Have lots of communication. So you guys have similar goals, right? You don’t have to have the exact same but you have to have similar goals as it relates to what your relationship looks like, what is fucking success for you.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:02:50

And there are a lot of things that lead people to stop communicating and start looking to fulfill what they need elsewhere. Things like depression, things like stress, whether it’s work, or illness, things like past trauma, yeah, can cause people to desire the attention of somebody else to fulfill whatever the needs are. We know people in our lives and in our families that have these issues, but they also they manifest in other ways, things like people that need to go spend money to feel good, or ask to feel good, right? I mean, it’s whatever that drives that dopamine response in there, even though they know I’m not

 

Mallory Gordon  1:03:23

fiscally sound right now, or I’m not in a health like health wise in a good place. And I know these things are bad for me,

 

Mickey Gordon  1:03:30

what we’re saying is, is that infidelity is a self destructive behavior. And it’s a destructive behavior for your relationship. And infidelity doesn’t mean sex, and mean a lot of things.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:03:40

I got a question for you when it comes to cheating and infidelity, whether it’s emotional, or secrecy, or any of the other items that we have lists that count as, quote, unquote, cheating. Do you think once it happens that that relationships are beyond repair? Oh, hell no.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:03:59

But it does take a lot of honesty. Now, whether you’re consensually non monogamous or not. It takes a lot of brutal honesty, this is why I did what I did. And I’m still wrong, you have to get that out there. Right. You can tell somebody why you did something and why you felt like it was the only thing you could do. But you still have to acknowledge to your partner that this was not okay. And and I’m sorry, that this is the path that I took. But this is what led me to it. And I’m not saying that I’m going to do it again. I’m not saying this is what I’m going to choose again, because I know how destructive this was. Now I have an opinion that’s very different from yours. So I’m gonna throw this out before we finish up here and get to the fun stuff at the end of this episode. But do you think that if somebody commits an act of infidelity, they have to tell their partner? Oh, yes, we

 

Mallory Gordon  1:04:49

disagree on this wholeheartedly? Yes, we do. I think that’s the right thing to do. Because just like lying, eventually it’s going to come out. It may be 20 years, but I think yes, I think you owe that To your significant other.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:05:01

Yep. So I feel differently than Mallory does on this one. And this has always been a problem for her because I feel the way that I do about it. She’s like, well, that’s awfully fucking convenient, Mickey. But yeah,

 

Mallory Gordon  1:05:10

I don’t like that.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:05:12

I know you don’t, I don’t. But I personally believe that if you fuck up, then you need to keep it to yourself. Because when you take what you did, and you tell the other person to go, you deserve to know, you just took all the guilt that you’re carrying on your shoulders, all the pain that you’re carrying, and you gave it to your partner in the Amplified by 100. You just you gave them all of it. You just said, You know what, I don’t need to carry this. You carry it. And by the way, it’s 50 times heavier now that you’re carrying it, because now you have to wonder why I did it. How I did it, who I did it with how many times I’ve done it. It’s all on you. And I feel so much better because I told you and now you can’t be upset at me because I told you the truth. You should be proud of me.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:05:56

I don’t know that it’s as much like relieving yourself of the burden as it is you fucking owe to them. If that is your person if you’re going to continue a relationship Don’t you want it to be true? Don’t you want everything to be on the table there?

 

Mickey Gordon  1:06:13

Well, yeah, I don’t think you should do it in the first place for starters Yeah, that’s kind of the whole point. But if you’re gonna do the crime then you need to do the time carry it. I’m not a big fan of infidelity. I’ve destroyed You know, my parents relationship and my deal. Yeah, I don’t have any need to be around that crap. Yeah. And it does happen in the lifestyle Mallory and I’ve told you before we came from lifestyle parents, but that doesn’t mean that the relationship lasted but it didn’t fall apart because of lifestyle either. So last thing before we bail out of here and come back with our segment, which is a toy box segment for you guys today. Do we think anything’s different? About COVID as COVID created more infidelity or less

 

Mallory Gordon  1:06:52

shit, you’re asking some really hard questions today. I think the idea of infidelity I don’t know that the sexual acts are happening as much as maybe pre quarantine. But I think people are still seeking out others to fill a void. I think if they were going down that path, they’re gonna find a way whether it’s online or

 

Mickey Gordon  1:07:12

Yeah, look at fans exploding.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:07:14

Hey, I don’t think that has anything to do with fidelity though.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:07:17

Hey, there’s some women out there that freak out when their guy looks at porn. Yeah, like I consider cheating. I guess that’s true. If you if you want to be sexually aroused. I used to be me to does it.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:07:25

Yeah. I I don’t know that I relate to the mass public anymore.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:07:32

I don’t think we do either. But yeah, interestingly enough divorces are up sharply

 

Mallory Gordon  1:07:37

Well, yeah, cuz you’re fucking suck together. There’s no eight hour breaks in the middle of the day. I mean, we’re used to it. We’ve been doing this for years. And we have our but we we make sure we keep distance between each other. And we we do get to see each other on a daily basis, which is very nice. But we have our own shit that we do.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:07:56

We do. Now it’s interesting. So this has been a just a conversation between Mallory and I, and this is the essence of podcasting folks to Narcissus sitting in a room having a conversation and recording it for your benefit.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:08:08

Yay. And we’re also going to talk about our how we feel about reporting infidelity to your spouse. That’s going to be a conversation for dinner. Aren’t you excited?

 

Mickey Gordon  1:08:16

Oh, I can’t wait to have this conversation again. You sign up for that in a dentist appointment. Let’s kick this fucking week off right. All right, guys. We’re gonna come back in just a hot second. We’re gonna talk about toy box. We’re gonna talk about strap ons and

 

Mallory Gordon  1:08:29

I’m so excited because we get we’ve talked about this a lot.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:08:32

Very excited to get them back and wrap up a long episode of casual swinger. You want to tell everybody where to find us? you

 

Mallory Gordon  1:08:37

fuckers know where we are. We’re casual swinger everywhere. That’s casual swing. your.com Feel free to shoot us a message at podcast at casual swinger con. You love us please feel free to write us a rave review on iTunes. You can find us on social media YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. What a data since he is naked. That’s STC SLS double diggnation quiver and Cassidy

 

Mickey Gordon  1:09:01

joke’s on you. It’s just me naked guys have been listening to casual swinger. everybody welcome back one more time to casual swinger. We’re going to talk toy box now today, we’re not going to talk. Mallory’s Toy Box know what’s been happening on casual toys lately.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:09:31

So there has been an influx of people asking questions relating to strap ons. Oh, tons of them tight. Yeah, men, women, you name it for different dynamics and relationships. So we figured we’d throw a strap on conversation on to toy box. Yeah. And you’ve become this season professional as it relates ducking about strap ons. God

 

Mickey Gordon  1:09:51

I wish I hadn’t. But I have and

 

Mallory Gordon  1:09:54

I think it’s wonderful. Well, it’s I know I wouldn’t be outfitted with some really, really nice equipment for my next one. De Valle

 

Mickey Gordon  1:10:00

Yeah. And I’m not against it, I don’t have anything against anybody. That’s that’s into it. I just didn’t know much about it. So I had to do a lot of homework and really get knowledgeable on it, because it’s not something I’m personally into. But what I love is that our listeners and our friends and our customers for casual toys, will ask us anything like they’re really on. That’s great, which I love. What sometimes, they’re really, really graphic and I’m like, whoo, okay. Give me a second. Yeah,

 

Mallory Gordon  1:10:28

that was information that I did not need to know in order to answer your question, but thank you for sharing.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:10:32

So let’s talk a little bit about the different types because there are a lot of different types of strap ons out there. There’s realistic ones and smooth ones. And we’ll get to those in a second. But I think we should really kind of focus first on the thing that really controls your experience. Whether you’re female on female strap on or pegging a guy strap on, which we do have a lot of conversation about lately. So let’s talk about strap ons looming.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:10:57

Yeah, so correct me if I’m wrong, and I’m gonna pose this as a question. Are there really only like three types the there’s the strapless, the harness and then like this brief style.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:11:07

That’s pretty much it. Yeah. And the the harnesses themselves are what makes the biggest difference with the strap ons because pretty much any dildo with a suction cup base or a flat base is going to fit in pretty much any of the harnesses that are out right,

 

Mallory Gordon  1:11:23

and you can get those in different sizes, sizes, shapes, colors, links, everything on and it’s a buffet, then it’s a buffet.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:11:29

So the first place we want to start is when we talk about how you’re going to use it right if you’re going to peg with it, which is what a lot of conversation has been coming up lately on strap ons. The number one piece of advice we can give you is don’t do what guys do with dildos when we buy filters for women we buy the biggest fucking dildo we can find the most realistic looking one despite it being 30 inches long. Oh, you know, veins, and rough edges and a head and balls. All the shit going on

 

Mallory Gordon  1:11:59

the first one you ever bought me remember big George?

 

Mickey Gordon  1:12:01

Oh, yeah. girthy George jersey, George. Yeah, beat a baby seal.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:12:05

I was like, What am I supposed to do with this self defense.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:12:10

Use it for D ball practice. But when we talk about those things, that’s not what you want in your but if you’ve never had anything in your butt before, so we recommend for pegging a very smooth and small implement for any type of strap on whether it’s a harness, or whether it’s a boyshort style, or even a strapless style. And we’re going to talk about those different styles. But then we can leave pretty much everything else off the table. But if the number one piece of advice we can give you is if you’re going to peg us something small and smooth as a starter. Excellent. Now, and we talked about the different types, we talked about the harness style for starters, right? There are a lot of types of harnesses out there. There’s some cheap ones from basics, for example.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:12:50

Yeah, but I’m gonna say even though for being economical basics do make a nice one. I actually prefer not being a plus size woman per se. I like the plus size harness they have even though I had to cut the straps The first time I used it, because it gave me more stability at the base because that little shape that goes over the pubic area was much wider, and I had more control with it. So I didn’t mind it. But for anyone who hasn’t used a strap on when we talk about harness, it almost looks like you’re going like spelunking, or you’re going to go rock climbing. Yes, zip lining aid goes around your thighs over your hips. Yeah, and then it’s tightened at

 

Mickey Gordon  1:13:34

Yeah. And it has a platform base. That’s roughly the shape of your of your pelvic area. So it’s a triangle and it’s like a trapezoid. And it has a rubber ring. Apparently, that rubber rings on a parallelogram.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:13:46

I was like No, that’s, that’s wrong. I feel geometry.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:13:48

Yeah. But it’s got a rubber ring. And the nice part about the harnesses themselves is that rubber ring, you can change it out if you want to use a different size toy. So a lot of them come with three different size rings. So you could use it for the smaller toys for pegging. You can use it for the larger toys if you’re girls into that sort of thing. It’s Matter of fact, we we sold one recently to some friends of ours. That is just impressive. Impressive. Yeah, that’s impressive. I was like girls gonna need some help walking up to the hedge. But anyway, you know, the harnesses are the most popular option because they are the least expensive.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:14:26

They’re the least expensive and I feel like they’re, they’re more sizable. Yeah, there you go. That’s a better word. They’re versatile.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:14:34

Yeah. And I do think they’re great. And I do think they serve their purpose. And if you’re looking for a harness, the one that we recommend is eat well. Mallory likes to basics because she said she felt like she had a lot of versatility. I don’t

 

Mallory Gordon  1:14:47

mind them and they’re not my like I have other favorites too. But I like the basics. The cow

 

Mickey Gordon  1:14:51

exotics, her royal harness is a really sexy alternative. It’s a little more expensive because it’s leather but it has Oh yeah, we’re set the style tie on back to it. That’s really sexy. And it also has the What is it? The the leggings that attaches to the leggings? The garters? Yes, so it has garters with it and a few other things, it’s still got everything else we talked about the O ring and everything else brilliant.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:15:17

And I really like that one, because then you have even more stability because you’re cinched a wrong the waistline all the way around, and it’s a wider base. So again, you’re it’s more on the basis pulled closer to your body for more control.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:15:31

Yes, and both of those, I mean, we talked about her rail harness, or were there basics, they both do the same thing. It’s just a matter of how invested you want to be in this toys is something you’re going to use regularly invest in a better toy, if you’re going to do that, right. Now, if you want to go beyond that, or in a different direction than that because some people don’t want a full harness, they want to go in a different direction, you have two really good choices in that space. One is kind of a hybrid between the the jockey style, bikini style, or boy suites, way short style. And then you also have one that’s a hybrid between the harness and the boys shorter bikini style. The hybrid is called joke, and it’s by spare parts. And we do carry that long casual toys.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:16:13

Yeah, that’s j o qu. E

 

Mickey Gordon  1:16:16

Yes, it’s very, very popular. It’s very popular because it’s very comfortable. And everyone very much likes how it

 

Mallory Gordon  1:16:22

is super comfy.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:16:24

So the downside to that particular one is it is a little expensive, but it’s expensive, because it’s good. And if you want something that’s a little less expensive that’s in the same style range, you can go with the boyshort style from spreadsheets, spreadsheets makes a couple of different ones whether bikini style or boyshort. style. Yeah,

 

Mallory Gordon  1:16:41

and it’s still a great product. I like spreadsheets as a company in general. We have that doggie harness. Yeah, like I love that thing and a little on the leg hooks for the or no the D hooks, right?

 

Mickey Gordon  1:16:52

Yeah, D rings. Yeah, we’ve got a couple of things, some sports sheets here in the house. And they’re also very nice. So now the the last place we’re going to go with this when we talk about strap ons, is some people you know, we talked about you know it just girl on girl strap on play. There’s really only one person really receiving the benefit unless you do something with like, a Panini vibe or something like that while you’re providing you know, the power on the girl side. Now if that’s happening, that’s great. You’re having a good time, but there’s another way to do it. So just a couple years ago, they started coming out with strapless strap ons which has an insertable element that goes inside you and then kind of cups your your pelvic

 

Mallory Gordon  1:17:31

Yeah, and they’re little they’re a little strange to look at you remember the club. Like when the club came out the thing that the anti like faffed tool that went across your mind you were the first time I saw and I was like what the fuck is this thing do anti theft like you always want to or you want to pick it up and be like pew pew Stormtrooper, but yeah, they’re really nice.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:17:50

They’re neat, but I think people buy them and they expect them to stay in. If you get wet, it’s not gonna stay in.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:17:55

So that’s the struggle with it. I mean, you could have some pretty strong key goals in our Kiko muscles. I exercise them daily. Always good for your pelvic floor. It is a challenge once your waist down there. Do you like how I use I really wish you when you get nice and wet they are difficult to stay in because you’re so focused on squeezing it and thrusting at the same time. It’s like rubbing your belly patting your head and trying to light a cigarette like it’s it’s it’s challenging to keep your head in the game especially

 

Mickey Gordon  1:18:26

if you feel so good that you’re gonna come

 

Mallory Gordon  1:18:28

Yeah, oh, well that’s the other thing when you come back you’re just like kind of shoots

 

Mickey Gordon  1:18:33

through and that’s how Jay from average swingers died he got killed with a strapless strap on the shot at a Mallard go oh really to go Yeah, he was he died with a smile folks. Now I you know there’s a way around it though right and these jockey style boy shorts style or the joke style of harnesses are actually made to work with strapless strap on so it covers you it covers that part of your body. Once you have that strapless in and then you put the strapless itself through that O ring and then it holds it in place so you can use it and benefit from it at the same time. Now it’s still a challenge right? We heard from EMG that it was still a bit of a challenge to use it even though she was wearing the shorts. So I think you know if most people I’ve talked to and said let’s just go with the old reliable give me a strap on give me you know pick a dildo you like pick a harness you like and get some work done and then trade pleases?

 

Mallory Gordon  1:19:31

Yeah, yeah. And that’s fair enough. And I’m definitely going to start using my Moxie. Is that what it is? Yeah. The next time I use the strap on I think, yeah, that’s a good way to do it. For me, like I I was uncomfortable having the penetration inside of me the first time I use one because it also pulled a little funny and it I mean, it felt good. But it was just I think it was a little too much for me personally.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:19:59

Is it like rubbing your head and pat in your belly at the same time. Yeah, that kind of thing. So, anyway, just a little bit of talk on strap ons here, guys, you can find all of these products that we talked about, on casual toys calm. I’m also gonna put some links in the show notes. So you can see the differences between harness styles and boyshort styles of harnesses for strap ons. I’m not gonna bother putting ones in there for pegging or anything like that. If you have questions about that, don’t forget to check us out at casual toys calm and send us a chat bottom right hand corner, there’s a little bubble. And here’s a sneak peek for you. If you click on that bubble, it’ll tell you what the code is to get 20% off your first order from casual toys calm. We do this because we love you guys and we love sex and we love sex toys. So make sure to check it out and let us know what you think.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:20:44

Yes, tell us tell us tell us. So that’s

 

Mickey Gordon  1:20:47

gonna do it for us today a little bit of a long episode of casual swinger talking about cheating in the lifestyle. This was

 

Mallory Gordon  1:20:53

cheating in strap ons, right? It’s

 

Mickey Gordon  1:20:54

the same thing.

 

Mallory Gordon  1:20:56

It’s like apples and potatoes.

 

Mickey Gordon  1:21:00

And you can mail a potato. Fuck you. Potato parcel. I just had to put that in there to make some fun of you. But anyway. Alright guys, this has been fun. When you want to tell everybody one more time how they can find it. No,

 

Mallory Gordon  1:21:13

no, no, but I will. Casual swing are everywhere. Folks. Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook. And did I miss one? No, no, no, no. And we’re on the dating sites too. That’s why Asian Cassidy has less sec and quiver

 

Mickey Gordon  1:21:28

and you can see Mallory naked. Alright guys, we’ll be back in two weeks. We’ve got a fun one come in for you. It’s the ladies of the lifestyle. That’s gonna be a blast. Yes, you’ve been listening to casual swinger?

 

1:22:10

Hi, I’m Venus from the Venus cockle just podcast and I have a special message for all of the single ladies listening. What if you could have a loving, committed partner who wants to stay totally faithful to you, but who would love to see you have incredible experiences with others? It sounds too good to be true, right? It is true. You really can have it all and be loved, celebrated and even put on a pedestal. Learn more at Venus connections.com